Has anyone heard anything about Met.Jonah resigning? / Met Jonah Resigns / Holy Synod Releases Official Statement about Met. Jonah's Resignation

Opus118

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PeterTheAleut said:
rakovsky said:
FatherGiryus said:
Fr Constantine called and expressed willingness to lend him a hand to get him through a difficult period in his life.

Some unfortunate things happened with him and the DC Cathedral community and OCA, which make it impossible for me to accept him canonically. He has been greatly slandered.

Kalo Pascha!

With love in Christ,

+Jonah
Archbishop of Washington
Metropolitan of All America and Canada
PO Box 675, Syosset, NY 11791-0675
(516)922-0550 Fax (516)922-0954
Fr. Giryius,

From your summation of what you guess, and from this letter it doesnt necessarily sound that what Met.Jonah thought he was doing was so bad. Perhaps when he took those missteps toward receiving the priest he did not know what the real situation was. Perhaps the priest made an appeal to him and he thought the charges were exaggerated.

In such a case, even if it's true the priest was bad, it would not mean Met. Jonah was. Besides this possible issue, it seems more likely that there is some other issue, like the Met.'s treatment in the clinic, that may be playing a much larger role.

The other major thing, like the expensive move to D.C. from New York seems bad, but also seems like it would not be enough. And things like the "culture wars" claims or other things from the newspaper seem not so important here.
My advice, rakovsky: Quit speculating; you're only tying your brain up in knots.
I concur, but for a different reason. I believe you are a special asset to this forum and you should not be involved in speculative issues of this sort. I would prefer that you not think about issues beyond your control, but in the end it is your choice.
 

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Seraphim98 said:
Does anyone know how other Orthodox jurisdictions are reacting to this news of the metropolitan's forced resignation? I've seen no statements of any of them on the matter…I would think the MP at least might have some sort of comment…even if it is "we are evaluating the situation" politicspeak.
Anyone?
 

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No, I haven't seen anything, well, I saw one from someone who"thought" something that isn't worth repeating because there was no basis for the "thought."
 

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Seraphim98 said:
Does anyone know how other Orthodox jurisdictions are reacting to this news of the metropolitan's forced resignation? I've seen no statements of any of them on the matter…I would think the MP at least might have some sort of comment…even if it is "we are evaluating the situation" politicspeak.
Would everybody please stop with the "forced resignation" stuff? Unless you have some new documentation, HB's departure seems to be what the synod said it was. Enough made-up conspiracies, PLEASE.
 

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I don't think anyone involved is 'bad.'  I think there are some problems.

For example, there is a question as to why the priest in question was not enrolled in the clergy of the OCA.  Apparently, the Holy Synod of the OCA had objections to this clergyman in particular which prevented his enrollment.  Obviously, His Beatitude had every intention of enrolling him, given his request to the originating metropolitan, and so only the Holy Synod could stop him.

I have heard one theory, and it is only a theory, was the concern that the priest in question along with the 'DC Nuns' are 'Dionysians' as opposed to 'Athonite.'  In the world of Byzantine monasticism, there appear to be at least two parties as described, and they do not get along for whatever reason. I don't know much about the tensions between the two parties, but they are there and may have played a role in what is going on.

However, I don't know for sure if this played a role, but I think as an alternative explanation may help in diffusing any speculation that this situation is solely about the accusations of impropriety as being the sole factor in all of this.  There may be plenty of sub-plots here that will make things more complicated than we imagined.

These complications do not necessitate 'good' or 'bad' labels, and I think we should avoid such terminology until all the facts come out.


rakovsky said:
FatherGiryus said:
Fr Constantine called and expressed willingness to lend him a hand to get him through a difficult period in his life.

Some unfortunate things happened with him and the DC Cathedral community and OCA, which make it impossible for me to accept him canonically. He has been greatly slandered.

Kalo Pascha!

With love in Christ,

+Jonah
Archbishop of Washington
Metropolitan of All America and Canada
PO Box 675, Syosset, NY 11791-0675
(516)922-0550 Fax (516)922-0954
Fr. Giryius,

From your summation of what you guess, and from this letter it doesnt necessarily sound that what Met.Jonah thought he was doing was so bad. Perhaps when he took those missteps toward receiving the priest he did not know what the real situation was. Perhaps the priest made an appeal to him and he thought the charges were exaggerated.

In such a case, even if it's true the priest was bad, it would not mean Met. Jonah was. Besides this possible issue, it seems more likely that there is some other issue, like the Met.'s treatment in the clinic, that may be playing a much larger role.

The other major thing, like the expensive move to D.C. from New York seems bad, but also seems like it would not be enough. And things like the "culture wars" claims or other things from the newspaper seem not so important here.
 

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Possibly related to this, I never understood what was so wrong with the "D.C. Nuns," why were they so controversial?  I know that many believed that they had not been canonically released from their bishop in Greece, but I don't understand why so many opposed their admission to the OCA.  Is it this matter of them not being Athonite?  Does anyone know why they were so controversial while Metropolitan Jonah was trying to have them admitted? 
 

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FatherGiryus said:
Obviously, His Beatitude had every intention of enrolling him, given his request to the originating metropolitan,
Father, this is just further speculation.  What we know is that the priest’s bishop released him to Met Jonah in response to a request from Met Jonah.  What is not clear is the exact nature of Met Jonah’s request and the basis of that request.  In other words, was the release of this priest to Met Jonah in response to Met Jonah’s request for “a priest-monk” to help in establishing monasteries, or did Met Jonah request this priest by name?  If Met Jonah did in fact request this priest by name (which hasn’t been demonstrated), why did he request this particular priest?  Did he know this priest very well before making the request, or was the request made based on (bad) information from others? 

I have heard from some who attend St. Nicholas Cathedral in D.C., where this priest spent some time, that Met Jonah did not think well of the accused priest.  It could be that Met Jonah made the request to the priest’s bishop in Greece with every intention of receiving this priest into the OCA, but when the priest arrived and Met Jonah got to know him better, Met Jonah changed his mind and had every intention of not receiving him into the OCA.  It could be that after Met Jonah invited him, Bp Melchizedek (who probably knew this priest from the time he spent in Greece) raised a number of concerns to Met Jonah that also dissuaded him from receiving this priest.  So, while the priest was released to Met Jonah, I have seen no evidence that would suggest that this priest was ever formally received by Met Jonah or enlisted in the OCA.  I also have seen no evidence to suggest that Met Jonah still intended on receiving him after he got to know him better following the priest’s arrival. 

At this point, the whole situation seems very cloudy.  Everyone has read the Synod’s version of events.  I have reason to believe the godmother’s version of events relating to the accused priest.  Beyond that, there seems to be a thousand questions that have not been addressed and a hundred people on the Internet who have developed pet theories without any access to actual inside information.  We can pray for Met Jonah and the Synod, and hope that all will be resolved that should be resolved, but beyond that I think most of the speculation around these events is unproductive, futile, and even dangerous.
 

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The criticism I heard was that there was plenty of monastic foundation in the OCA already, and it was seen as unnecessary and confusing to add not only a new 'foreign' element, but one from the Byzantine tradition rather than Slavic or Romanian, which are already well-established in the US under the OCA.  However, I must emphasize that I am not sure the Metopolitan's vision regarding their role was ever completely explained in a public manner.  If I missed it, I would appreciate someone pointing out where such a vision was released for general review.

Basil 320 said:
Possibly related to this, I never understood what was so wrong with the "D.C. Nuns," why were they so controversial?  I know that many believed that they had not been canonically released from their bishop in Greece, but I don't understand why so many opposed their admission to the OCA.  Is it this matter of them not being Athonite?  Does anyone know why they were so controversial while Metropolitan Jonah was trying to have them admitted? 
 

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FatherGiryus said:
I have heard one theory, and it is only a theory, was the concern that the priest in question along with the 'DC Nuns' are 'Dionysians' as opposed to 'Athonite.'  In the world of Byzantine monasticism, there appear to be at least two parties as described, and they do not get along for whatever reason. I don't know much about the tensions between the two parties, but they are there and may have played a role in what is going on.
Could you possibly point us in a direction where these terms might be defined? I've never heard of "Dionysian" monasticism as a distinct tendency.
 

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FatherGiryus said:
The criticism I heard was that there was plenty of monastic foundation in the OCA already, and it was seen as unnecessary and confusing to add not only a new 'foreign' element, but one from the Byzantine tradition rather than Slavic or Romanian, which are already well-established in the US under the OCA.  However, I must emphasize that I am not sure the Metopolitan's vision regarding their role was ever completely explained in a public manner.  If I missed it, I would appreciate someone pointing out where such a vision was released for general review.

Basil 320 said:
Possibly related to this, I never understood what was so wrong with the "D.C. Nuns," why were they so controversial?  I know that many believed that they had not been canonically released from their bishop in Greece, but I don't understand why so many opposed their admission to the OCA.  Is it this matter of them not being Athonite?  Does anyone know why they were so controversial while Metropolitan Jonah was trying to have them admitted?  
Ok, thanks Father.  Just to note, although they had been in a Greek monastery, I thought the "D.C. Nuns" were American women.
 

Opus118

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Basil 320 said:
FatherGiryus said:
The criticism I heard was that there was plenty of monastic foundation in the OCA already, and it was seen as unnecessary and confusing to add not only a new 'foreign' element, but one from the Byzantine tradition rather than Slavic or Romanian, which are already well-established in the US under the OCA.  However, I must emphasize that I am not sure the Metopolitan's vision regarding their role was ever completely explained in a public manner.  If I missed it, I would appreciate someone pointing out where such a vision was released for general review.

Basil 320 said:
Possibly related to this, I never understood what was so wrong with the "D.C. Nuns," why were they so controversial?  I know that many believed that they had not been canonically released from their bishop in Greece, but I don't understand why so many opposed their admission to the OCA.  Is it this matter of them not being Athonite?  Does anyone know why they were so controversial while Metropolitan Jonah was trying to have them admitted?  
Ok, thanks Father.  Just to note, although they had been in a Greek monastery, I thought the "D.C. Nuns" were American women.
The Abbess for sure. Abbess Aemiliane is the Sister that got crushed in the Kansas City Hyatt Regency Walkway collapse.
 

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Iconodule said:
FatherGiryus said:
I have heard one theory, and it is only a theory, was the concern that the priest in question along with the 'DC Nuns' are 'Dionysians' as opposed to 'Athonite.'  In the world of Byzantine monasticism, there appear to be at least two parties as described, and they do not get along for whatever reason. I don't know much about the tensions between the two parties, but they are there and may have played a role in what is going on.
Could you possibly point us in a direction where these terms might be defined? I've never heard of "Dionysian" monasticism as a distinct tendency.
It's not a tendency. It's a cluster of monasteries/convents, all of which claim a particular man, Elder Dionysios, as their Elder.
 

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FatherGiryus said:
The criticism I heard was that there was plenty of monastic foundation in the OCA already, and it was seen as unnecessary and confusing to add not only a new 'foreign' element, but one from the Byzantine tradition rather than Slavic or Romanian, which are already well-established in the US under the OCA.  However, I must emphasize that I am not sure the Metopolitan's vision regarding their role was ever completely explained in a public manner.  If I missed it, I would appreciate someone pointing out where such a vision was released for general review.

Basil 320 said:
Possibly related to this, I never understood what was so wrong with the "D.C. Nuns," why were they so controversial?  I know that many believed that they had not been canonically released from their bishop in Greece, but I don't understand why so many opposed their admission to the OCA.  Is it this matter of them not being Athonite?  Does anyone know why they were so controversial while Metropolitan Jonah was trying to have them admitted?  
Another criticism was simply against the basic idea -- a co-mingling of cathedral/monastery/church headquarters under one inter-related complex -- as a recipe for confusion of (canonical) roles.
 

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pensateomnia said:
FatherGiryus said:
The criticism I heard was that there was plenty of monastic foundation in the OCA already, and it was seen as unnecessary and confusing to add not only a new 'foreign' element, but one from the Byzantine tradition rather than Slavic or Romanian, which are already well-established in the US under the OCA.  However, I must emphasize that I am not sure the Metopolitan's vision regarding their role was ever completely explained in a public manner.  If I missed it, I would appreciate someone pointing out where such a vision was released for general review.

Basil 320 said:
Possibly related to this, I never understood what was so wrong with the "D.C. Nuns," why were they so controversial?  I know that many believed that they had not been canonically released from their bishop in Greece, but I don't understand why so many opposed their admission to the OCA.  Is it this matter of them not being Athonite?  Does anyone know why they were so controversial while Metropolitan Jonah was trying to have them admitted?  
Another criticism was simply against the basic idea -- a co-mingling of cathedral/monastery/church headquarters under one inter-related complex -- as a recipe for confusion of (canonical) roles.
Even though it worked OK for more than a thousand years.
 

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pensateomnia said:
It's not a tendency. It's a cluster of monasteries/convents, all of which claim a particular man, Elder Dionysios, as their Elder.
Having visited three of his monasteries in Greece (two women's and one men's monastery), I would like to mention that they are quite controversial.

There seems to be quite a personality cult around elder Dionysios, and his style of leadership is very centered on his person. He forbids his monastics from confessing to anyone else in his absence. If he is not near, he hears confession through the phone. One of of his monasteries is next door to a home for mentally disabled children. He has forbidden the nuns from volunteering there. Instead, he has them raise sheep and goats, whose meat he blessed them to eat (!).

He is in conflict with several diocesan bishops in Greece, there even was one case when he blessed one of his abbesses to sue a bishop in a civil court. It is not surprising that they went to the OCA and later ROCOR, since there is no way GOARCH would have let him start a monastery in the US. He is on good terms with the MP though (if I recall correctly, he has met with Pat. Kyrill), and the Greek bishops seem to be unhappy with his entertaining such relations behing the back of the Greek bishops.

By the way, many (most?) of his monks and nuns are not Greek, and amongs those who are Greek, several have grown up aborad. There are many converts - Americans, Germans, former Russian Jews who have become Orthodox, also some Orthodox from countries other than Greece, especially the former USSR.


I cannot really say what all this means for the current situation in the OCA, but (and this is just my personal opinion), two things see to be possible:
1) Someone from the Greeks complained about the presence of the Dionysians in the OCA and/or
2) the Dionysians were seen as (and quite possibly, rightly so, but I cannot know for sure) as an alternative power structure, with the potential to weaken the positin of the local bishops and the OCA's Holy Synod.
 

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Hermogenes said:
pensateomnia said:
FatherGiryus said:
The criticism I heard was that there was plenty of monastic foundation in the OCA already, and it was seen as unnecessary and confusing to add not only a new 'foreign' element, but one from the Byzantine tradition rather than Slavic or Romanian, which are already well-established in the US under the OCA.  However, I must emphasize that I am not sure the Metopolitan's vision regarding their role was ever completely explained in a public manner.  If I missed it, I would appreciate someone pointing out where such a vision was released for general review.

Basil 320 said:
Possibly related to this, I never understood what was so wrong with the "D.C. Nuns," why were they so controversial?  I know that many believed that they had not been canonically released from their bishop in Greece, but I don't understand why so many opposed their admission to the OCA.  Is it this matter of them not being Athonite?  Does anyone know why they were so controversial while Metropolitan Jonah was trying to have them admitted?  
Another criticism was simply against the basic idea -- a co-mingling of cathedral/monastery/church headquarters under one inter-related complex -- as a recipe for confusion of (canonical) roles.
Even though it worked OK for more than a thousand years.
Certainly not. A monk involved in cathedral life or church administration is no monk at all. At least not in the Orthodox tradition.
 

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pensateomnia said:
Hermogenes said:
pensateomnia said:
FatherGiryus said:
The criticism I heard was that there was plenty of monastic foundation in the OCA already, and it was seen as unnecessary and confusing to add not only a new 'foreign' element, but one from the Byzantine tradition rather than Slavic or Romanian, which are already well-established in the US under the OCA.  However, I must emphasize that I am not sure the Metopolitan's vision regarding their role was ever completely explained in a public manner.  If I missed it, I would appreciate someone pointing out where such a vision was released for general review.

Basil 320 said:
Possibly related to this, I never understood what was so wrong with the "D.C. Nuns," why were they so controversial?  I know that many believed that they had not been canonically released from their bishop in Greece, but I don't understand why so many opposed their admission to the OCA.  Is it this matter of them not being Athonite?  Does anyone know why they were so controversial while Metropolitan Jonah was trying to have them admitted?  
Another criticism was simply against the basic idea -- a co-mingling of cathedral/monastery/church headquarters under one inter-related complex -- as a recipe for confusion of (canonical) roles.
Even though it worked OK for more than a thousand years.
Certainly not. A monk involved in cathedral life or church administration is no monk at all. At least not in the Orthodox tradition.
Are you a monk?
 

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I'm a little late here. I read the Synod's statement about Met. Jonah's resignation a few weeks ago. Has anyone discovered any new writings or sources about this to look at? What do we know about the Priest who raped that woman? Are there any other sources stating what happened? Perhaps from a different perspective?
 

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Michał Kalina said:
Are you sure? ^
Well, "at all" seems a little strong.  But still, as His Beatitude Metropolitan Constantine of blessed memory once told me, "because a monk lives in his house does not make it a monastery." 
 
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