Has anyone heard anything about Met.Jonah resigning? / Met Jonah Resigns / Holy Synod Releases Official Statement about Met. Jonah's Resignation

BTRAKAS

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You have to wonder about the "fact" situations she sets forth throughout her discourse, if she failed to understand even the most basic of  facts about Metropolitan Jonah's career, which are quite available to the public.  She claims he served as "Bishop of the South for less than one year."  Wrong, he never was elected Bishop of Dallas, the diocesan seat, but was elected Bishop of Fort Worth, a titular title because he was the auxiliary to the ruling bishop, Archbishop Dimitri of Dallas and the Diocese of the South.  Yes, he served "less than a year," much less than a year, 8 days if I'm not mistaken, though he had been serving as the Chancellor for a few months prior, a position he was intended to serve in as the auxiliary bishop.

Who is this women?
 

PrincessMommy

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PeterTheAleut said:
PrincessMommy said:
This was posted either today or yesterday.

An Open Letter to the Orthodox Church in America: by Christine Fevronia

http://www.christinefevronia.blogspot.com/  (sorry I don't know how to hyperlink)

This is the story as I have pieced it together, taken from various news sources and first-hand accounts from witnesses.  What I have learned in my research is contained within the following pages.
It is well documented and quite long... but also very helpful for those of us trying to sort through all this.
Why should we embrace the conclusions of one Christine Fevronia over all the other conclusions being floated around both on this forum and outside it?
I don't believe I said that.  Did I say that?  Don't put words in my mouth.  I put it out there because someone had taken all the pieces of the puzzle and tried to put them together in an organized manner.  If you don't like her conclusions you are certainly welcome to do the same and add your own commentary as she has.
 

PrincessMommy

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FatherGiryus said:
Whoever she is, she doesn't have a very tight grasp of the facts.  For example, she states:

Fr. Jonah was enthroned as Metropolitan of the Orthodox Church of America in November 2008, the third such Metropolitan of the autocephalous Orthodox Church of America (OCA), preceded by Metropolitan Theodosius Lazor (served 1977-2002), and Metropolitan Herman Swaiko (served 2002-2008).i

This is wrong: Metropolitan Ireney (Bekish) was the first primate of the OCA (c.f. http://oca.org/holy-synod/past-primates/ireney-bekish).

She also wrote:
Prior to his elevation as Metropolitan of the OCA, Metropolitan Jonah received two Master’s degrees (Master’s of Divinity, 1985; Master’s of Theology, 1988), joined Valaam Monastery in Russia, was tonsured a Hieromonk in 1994. He founded and served as Abbot of St. John’s Monastery for 12 years.

Whereas Metropolitan Jonah's official biography says:

He was ordained to the diaconate and priesthood in 1994 and in 1995 was tonsured to monastic rank at St. Tikhon’s Monastery, South Canaan, PA, having received the name Jonah.

Her letter has a number of other errors, which I don't have time to delve into in detail (weekends are busy).  Needless to say, having invoked her emotions, I doubt it would help much to try to correct it.


PeterTheAleut said:
PrincessMommy said:
This was posted either today or yesterday.

An Open Letter to the Orthodox Church in America: by Christine Fevronia

http://www.christinefevronia.blogspot.com/  (sorry I don't know how to hyperlink)

This is the story as I have pieced it together, taken from various news sources and first-hand accounts from witnesses.  What I have learned in my research is contained within the following pages.
It is well documented and quite long... but also very helpful for those of us trying to sort through all this.
Why should we embrace the conclusions of one Christine Fevronia over all the other conclusions being floated around both on this forum and outside it?
You should email her with those corrections.  She's asked for feedback.
 

FatherGiryus

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People often ask for things they don't really want.  As in:

"Be honest... does this dress make me look fat?"

Her ends says that she has given herself emotional justification not to change her mind.  I'm not going to engage in a useless activity.  The introduction may say "I'm open," but the conclusion says, "Case closed."

I think the feedback she's really looking for is agreement.  Having read through it, I can't give her that.

PrincessMommy said:
You should email her with those corrections.  She's asked for feedback.
 

PeterTheAleut

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PrincessMommy said:
PeterTheAleut said:
PrincessMommy said:
This was posted either today or yesterday.

An Open Letter to the Orthodox Church in America: by Christine Fevronia

http://www.christinefevronia.blogspot.com/  (sorry I don't know how to hyperlink)

This is the story as I have pieced it together, taken from various news sources and first-hand accounts from witnesses.  What I have learned in my research is contained within the following pages.
It is well documented and quite long... but also very helpful for those of us trying to sort through all this.
Why should we embrace the conclusions of one Christine Fevronia over all the other conclusions being floated around both on this forum and outside it?
I don't believe I said that.  Did I say that?  Don't put words in my mouth.
I didn't say that you said that, so please calm down. :)
 

PrincessMommy

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FatherGiryus said:
People often ask for things they don't really want.  As in:

"Be honest... does this dress make me look fat?"

Her ends says that she has given herself emotional justification not to change her mind.  I'm not going to engage in a useless activity.  The introduction may say "I'm open," but the conclusion says, "Case closed."

I think the feedback she's really looking for is agreement.  Having read through it, I can't give her that.

PrincessMommy said:
You should email her with those corrections.  She's asked for feedback.
I suspect there are people on both sides who saying "case closed".  ;)  This is why I encourage EVERYONE to engage her (since she asked).  I've certainly seen enough of that attitude here.... move along folks, nothing to see here.

I know of two people who have emailed her to give her feedback and corrections (myself being one) and she's been quite open. 
 

Second Chance

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PrincessMommy said:
FatherGiryus said:
People often ask for things they don't really want.  As in:

"Be honest... does this dress make me look fat?"

Her ends says that she has given herself emotional justification not to change her mind.  I'm not going to engage in a useless activity.  The introduction may say "I'm open," but the conclusion says, "Case closed."

I think the feedback she's really looking for is agreement.  Having read through it, I can't give her that.

PrincessMommy said:
You should email her with those corrections.  She's asked for feedback.
I suspect there are people on both sides who saying "case closed".   ;)  This is why I encourage EVERYONE to engage her (since she asked).  I've certainly seen enough of that attitude here.... move along folks, nothing to see here.

I know of two people who have emailed her to give her feedback and corrections (myself being one) and she's been quite open.  
I am not going to engage with a person who says the following:

"The SMPAC wrote on the first page of their Memorandum:  “In order to generate a readable document in a timely manner, citations and footnotes are not included; however, all of the facts and observations contained herein are based on documentary evidence available in the OCA Chancery and/or on verifiable, trustworthy statements.” This is unacceptable for an official church document.  Assertions of the nature made within the Memorandum must be verifiable."

The highlighted sentences are evidence of a mindset that will not tolerate dissent. Just who is she to think that she is competent to determine the proper quality of an official church document? Even if she had the qualifications to make such a judgment, why does she not lay out her argument in a manner that befits discussion an official church document--that is, with canonical citations and historical arguments? Something is quite rotten here and I suspect that she may be yet another incarnation of Metropolitan Jonah's eminence grise, Father Joseph Fester.

I believe this letter is nothing but yet another attempt to reinstate Metropolitan Jonah as Primate. It is part of a campaign in which the main players are the Monomakhos Blog and regular, but shadowy characters, who have Internet names like Helga, Nikos, Um, etc. I also suspect that our own Princess Mommy is somehow associated with these characters. Why else would she so ever innocently put on the table such a propaganda document?
 

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PrincessMommy said:
FatherGiryus said:
People often ask for things they don't really want.  As in:

"Be honest... does this dress make me look fat?"

Her ends says that she has given herself emotional justification not to change her mind.  I'm not going to engage in a useless activity.  The introduction may say "I'm open," but the conclusion says, "Case closed."

I think the feedback she's really looking for is agreement.  Having read through it, I can't give her that.

PrincessMommy said:
You should email her with those corrections.  She's asked for feedback.
I suspect there are people on both sides who saying "case closed".   ;)  This is why I encourage EVERYONE to engage her (since she asked).  I've certainly seen enough of that attitude here.... move along folks, nothing to see here.
The Abbess, after taking her monastery's website private, appears to be the final action of "case closed" to the public except to her supporters and financiers.  The monastery posted documents that raised questions about the nuns and hieromonks canonical release from their Greek monastery.  Then in this public document, the writer suggests that anything noncanonical should be forgiven:

If there is anything that Metropolitan Jonah or Elder Dionysios did that was supposedly “noncanonical”, then it was unintentional and without deceit or guile, done for the betterment of relations between the OCA and the Elder Dionysios and his venerable monasteries, done in Christian love—not in deception—for the holy purpose of establishing monasteries in America.  I am willing to give our Metropolitan the benefit of the doubt that he and Elder Dionysios may not have followed, to the letter, protocol in matters of inter-jurisdictional transfers.  That is to be forgiven, is it not?
 

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Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) said:
PrincessMommy said:
FatherGiryus said:
People often ask for things they don't really want.  As in:

"Be honest... does this dress make me look fat?"

Her ends says that she has given herself emotional justification not to change her mind.  I'm not going to engage in a useless activity.  The introduction may say "I'm open," but the conclusion says, "Case closed."

I think the feedback she's really looking for is agreement.  Having read through it, I can't give her that.

PrincessMommy said:
You should email her with those corrections.  She's asked for feedback.
I suspect there are people on both sides who saying "case closed".   ;)  This is why I encourage EVERYONE to engage her (since she asked).  I've certainly seen enough of that attitude here.... move along folks, nothing to see here.

I know of two people who have emailed her to give her feedback and corrections (myself being one) and she's been quite open.  
I am not going to engage with a person who says the following:

"The SMPAC wrote on the first page of their Memorandum:  “In order to generate a readable document in a timely manner, citations and footnotes are not included; however, all of the facts and observations contained herein are based on documentary evidence available in the OCA Chancery and/or on verifiable, trustworthy statements.” This is unacceptable for an official church document.  Assertions of the nature made within the Memorandum must be verifiable."

The highlighted sentences are evidence of a mindset that will not tolerate dissent. Just who is she to think that she is competent to determine the proper quality of an official church document? Even if she had the qualifications to make such a judgment, why does she not lay out her argument in a manner that befits discussion an official church document--that is, with canonical citations and historical arguments? Something is quite rotten here and I suspect that she may be yet another incarnation of Metropolitan Jonah's eminence grise, Father Joseph Fester.

I believe this letter is nothing but yet another attempt to reinstate Metropolitan Jonah as Primate. It is part of a campaign in which the main players are the Monomakhos Blog and regular, but shadowy characters, who have Internet names like Helga, Nikos, Um, etc. I also suspect that our own Princess Mommy is somehow associated with these characters. Why else would she so ever innocently put on the table such a propaganda document?
sorry - I don't know those people.  At least I don't think I know them.  I actually found the document because a friend forwarded it to me and they found it on AIo_Org.  I would rather see OCA clean its house more than I'd like to Met. JONAH reinstated.  Having him reinstated is a long-shot in the best of circumstances.  I would like to see him treated with some respect.  I think he'd make a great abbot of a monastery again.

I'm sorry if you guys don't like more information forwarded to you on this subject.  I was under the impression that this was a good place to look at all sides of an issue.  Apparently I'm wrong.

 

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SolEX01 said:
PrincessMommy said:
FatherGiryus said:
People often ask for things they don't really want.  As in:

"Be honest... does this dress make me look fat?"

Her ends says that she has given herself emotional justification not to change her mind.  I'm not going to engage in a useless activity.  The introduction may say "I'm open," but the conclusion says, "Case closed."

I think the feedback she's really looking for is agreement.  Having read through it, I can't give her that.

PrincessMommy said:
You should email her with those corrections.  She's asked for feedback.
I suspect there are people on both sides who saying "case closed".   ;)  This is why I encourage EVERYONE to engage her (since she asked).  I've certainly seen enough of that attitude here.... move along folks, nothing to see here.
The Abbess, after taking her monastery's website private, appears to be the final action of "case closed" to the public except to her supporters and financiers.  The monastery posted documents that raised questions about the nuns and hieromonks canonical release from their Greek monastery.  Then in this public document, the writer suggests that anything noncanonical should be forgiven:

If there is anything that Metropolitan Jonah or Elder Dionysios did that was supposedly “noncanonical”, then it was unintentional and without deceit or guile, done for the betterment of relations between the OCA and the Elder Dionysios and his venerable monasteries, done in Christian love—not in deception—for the holy purpose of establishing monasteries in America.  I am willing to give our Metropolitan the benefit of the doubt that he and Elder Dionysios may not have followed, to the letter, protocol in matters of inter-jurisdictional transfers.  That is to be forgiven, is it not?
She seems to be okay with it... but apparently the nuns were not.  At least that is how I read Abbess A. posts before they went private.  I didn't know that... anyone know why she did it?
 

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PrincessMommy said:
I'm sorry if you guys don't like more information forwarded to you on this subject. 
Some people, particularly here, are only interested in 'more information' when it jibes with what they have already decided.
 

PrincessMommy

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witega said:
PrincessMommy said:
I'm sorry if you guys don't like more information forwarded to you on this subject. 
Some people, particularly here, are only interested in 'more information' when it jibes with what they have already decided.
yes, and the same can be said about Monomokhos.  That's why I'm particularly disappointed that people here on OC.net, who caught some flaws in the document, are unwilling to contact her to tell her so. 
 

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PrincessMommy said:
witega said:
PrincessMommy said:
I'm sorry if you guys don't like more information forwarded to you on this subject.
Some people, particularly here, are only interested in 'more information' when it jibes with what they have already decided.
yes, and the same can be said about Monomokhos.   That's why I'm particularly disappointed that people here on OC.net, who caught some flaws in the document, are unwilling to contact her to tell her so.  
The OCA needs to put its history with the Greek nuns and hieromonks in the past tense.  The monastics are on US soil; most of them are US citizens.  They wish to remain private as evident by their private web blog.  They have a lot of friends at St. Nicholas in Washington, DC and elsewhere.  Why does this individual need our help when she already has all the answers and her mind is made up that she supports Met. Jonah and the nuns and the hieromonks?

The OCA has a lot of issues with its Hierarchy and thought that Greek monastics would "save the day."  Now the Greek monastics have the last laugh with private web blogs.  The OCA couldn't handle one drunk hieromonk who received preferential (almost diplomatic-like) treatment by the Washington, DC police department and judicial system.
 

BTRAKAS

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SolEX01 said:
PrincessMommy said:
witega said:
PrincessMommy said:
I'm sorry if you guys don't like more information forwarded to you on this subject.
Some people, particularly here, are only interested in 'more information' when it jibes with what they have already decided.
yes, and the same can be said about Monomokhos.   That's why I'm particularly disappointed that people here on OC.net, who caught some flaws in the document, are unwilling to contact her to tell her so.  
The OCA needs to put its history with the Greek nuns and hieromonks in the past tense.  The monastics are on US soil; most of them are US citizens.  They wish to remain private as evident by their private web blog.  They have a lot of friends at St. Nicholas in Washington, DC and elsewhere.  Why does this individual need our help when she already has all the answers and her mind is made up that she supports Met. Jonah and the nuns and the hieromonks?

The OCA has a lot of issues with its Hierarchy and thought that Greek monastics would "save the day."  Now the Greek monastics have the last laugh with private web blogs.  The OCA couldn't handle one drunk hieromonk who received preferential (almost diplomatic-like) treatment by the Washington, DC police department and judicial system.
A monastery, like any Eastern Orthodox institution, such as a parish church, must be under a hierarch.  This monastery's move to a private website is not a productive indication that it is moving in the direction of securing canonical sanction.  What a waste.
 

BTRAKAS

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Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) said:
PrincessMommy said:
FatherGiryus said:
People often ask for things they don't really want.  As in:

"Be honest... does this dress make me look fat?"

Her ends says that she has given herself emotional justification not to change her mind.  I'm not going to engage in a useless activity.  The introduction may say "I'm open," but the conclusion says, "Case closed."

I think the feedback she's really looking for is agreement.  Having read through it, I can't give her that.

PrincessMommy said:
You should email her with those corrections.  She's asked for feedback.
I suspect there are people on both sides who saying "case closed".   ;)  This is why I encourage EVERYONE to engage her (since she asked).  I've certainly seen enough of that attitude here.... move along folks, nothing to see here.

I know of two people who have emailed her to give her feedback and corrections (myself being one) and she's been quite open.  
I am not going to engage with a person who says the following:

"The SMPAC wrote on the first page of their Memorandum:  “In order to generate a readable document in a timely manner, citations and footnotes are not included; however, all of the facts and observations contained herein are based on documentary evidence available in the OCA Chancery and/or on verifiable, trustworthy statements.” This is unacceptable for an official church document.  Assertions of the nature made within the Memorandum must be verifiable."

The highlighted sentences are evidence of a mindset that will not tolerate dissent. Just who is she to think that she is competent to determine the proper quality of an official church document? Even if she had the qualifications to make such a judgment, why does she not lay out her argument in a manner that befits discussion an official church document--that is, with canonical citations and historical arguments? Something is quite rotten here and I suspect that she may be yet another incarnation of Metropolitan Jonah's eminence grise, Father Joseph Fester.

I believe this letter is nothing but yet another attempt to reinstate Metropolitan Jonah as Primate. It is part of a campaign in which the main players are the Monomakhos Blog and regular, but shadowy characters, who have Internet names like Helga, Nikos, Um, etc. I also suspect that our own Princess Mommy is somehow associated with these characters. Why else would she so ever innocently put on the table such a propaganda document?
I agree with most of what is said in this post, but I disagree with the allegation of the intentions of posting the "Fevronia Letter."  It is information relative to the issue.  The fact that the entire Holy Synod unanimously acted to force the "First Among Them" to resign, indicates an apparently necessary action, however, documentation that has surfaced since, including the Holy Synod's explanation, do not support the forced resignation in my opinion.  Therefore, additional documentation assists in an understanding of what happened, if for no other reason than to possibly assist in avoiding the election of a failing primate, in any church, in the future.  I remain compelled to accept the Synod's action, but do not see the justification for it as yet.  In the end, the "Fevronia Letter" offers nothing to enable a better understanding, unfortunately.
 

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PrincessMommy said:
witega said:
PrincessMommy said:
I'm sorry if you guys don't like more information forwarded to you on this subject. 
Some people, particularly here, are only interested in 'more information' when it jibes with what they have already decided.
yes, and the same can be said about Monomokhos.   That's why I'm particularly disappointed that people here on OC.net, who caught some flaws in the document, are unwilling to contact her to tell her so. 
Where do you get that idea?
 

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PeterTheAleut said:
PrincessMommy said:
witega said:
PrincessMommy said:
I'm sorry if you guys don't like more information forwarded to you on this subject.
Some people, particularly here, are only interested in 'more information' when it jibes with what they have already decided.
yes, and the same can be said about Monomokhos.   That's why I'm particularly disappointed that people here on OC.net, who caught some flaws in the document, are unwilling to contact her to tell her so.  
Where do you get that idea?
'

I assume you are referring to what I highlighted above, if not please correct me:

This is why (I've highlighted them too:)

Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) said:
PrincessMommy said:
FatherGiryus said:
People often ask for things they don't really want.  As in:

"Be honest... does this dress make me look fat?"

Her ends says that she has given herself emotional justification not to change her mind.  I'm not going to engage in a useless activity.  The introduction may say "I'm open," but the conclusion says, "Case closed."

I think the feedback she's really looking for is agreement.  Having read through it, I can't give her that.

PrincessMommy said:
You should email her with those corrections.  She's asked for feedback.
I suspect there are people on both sides who saying "case closed".   ;)  This is why I encourage EVERYONE to engage her (since she asked).  I've certainly seen enough of that attitude here.... move along folks, nothing to see here.

I know of two people who have emailed her to give her feedback and corrections (myself being one) and she's been quite open.  
I am not going to engage with a person who says the following:

"The SMPAC wrote on the first page of their Memorandum:  “In order to generate a readable document in a timely manner, citations and footnotes are not included; however, all of the facts and observations contained herein are based on documentary evidence available in the OCA Chancery and/or on verifiable, trustworthy statements.” This is unacceptable for an official church document.  Assertions of the nature made within the Memorandum must be verifiable."

The highlighted sentences are evidence of a mindset that will not tolerate dissent. Just who is she to think that she is competent to determine the proper quality of an official church document? Even if she had the qualifications to make such a judgment, why does she not lay out her argument in a manner that befits discussion an official church document--that is, with canonical citations and historical arguments? Something is quite rotten here and I suspect that she may be yet another incarnation of Metropolitan Jonah's eminence grise, Father Joseph Fester.

I believe this letter is nothing but yet another attempt to reinstate Metropolitan Jonah as Primate. It is part of a campaign in which the main players are the Monomakhos Blog and regular, but shadowy characters, who have Internet names like Helga, Nikos, Um, etc. I also suspect that our own Princess Mommy is somehow associated with these characters. Why else would she so ever innocently put on the table such a propaganda document?
 

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PrincessMommy said:
PeterTheAleut said:
PrincessMommy said:
witega said:
PrincessMommy said:
I'm sorry if you guys don't like more information forwarded to you on this subject.
Some people, particularly here, are only interested in 'more information' when it jibes with what they have already decided.
yes, and the same can be said about Monomokhos.   That's why I'm particularly disappointed that people here on OC.net, who caught some flaws in the document, are unwilling to contact her to tell her so.  
Where do you get that idea?
'

I assume you are referring to what I highlighted above, if not please correct me:

This is why (I've highlighted them too:)

Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) said:
PrincessMommy said:
FatherGiryus said:
People often ask for things they don't really want.  As in:

"Be honest... does this dress make me look fat?"

Her ends says that she has given herself emotional justification not to change her mind.  I'm not going to engage in a useless activity.  The introduction may say "I'm open," but the conclusion says, "Case closed."

I think the feedback she's really looking for is agreement.  Having read through it, I can't give her that.

PrincessMommy said:
You should email her with those corrections.  She's asked for feedback.
I suspect there are people on both sides who saying "case closed".   ;)  This is why I encourage EVERYONE to engage her (since she asked).  I've certainly seen enough of that attitude here.... move along folks, nothing to see here.

I know of two people who have emailed her to give her feedback and corrections (myself being one) and she's been quite open.  
I am not going to engage with a person who says the following:

"The SMPAC wrote on the first page of their Memorandum:  “In order to generate a readable document in a timely manner, citations and footnotes are not included; however, all of the facts and observations contained herein are based on documentary evidence available in the OCA Chancery and/or on verifiable, trustworthy statements.” This is unacceptable for an official church document.  Assertions of the nature made within the Memorandum must be verifiable."

The highlighted sentences are evidence of a mindset that will not tolerate dissent. Just who is she to think that she is competent to determine the proper quality of an official church document? Even if she had the qualifications to make such a judgment, why does she not lay out her argument in a manner that befits discussion an official church document--that is, with canonical citations and historical arguments? Something is quite rotten here and I suspect that she may be yet another incarnation of Metropolitan Jonah's eminence grise, Father Joseph Fester.

I believe this letter is nothing but yet another attempt to reinstate Metropolitan Jonah as Primate. It is part of a campaign in which the main players are the Monomakhos Blog and regular, but shadowy characters, who have Internet names like Helga, Nikos, Um, etc. I also suspect that our own Princess Mommy is somehow associated with these characters. Why else would she so ever innocently put on the table such a propaganda document?
You're disappointed that two people have expressed their lack of desire to correct Ms. Fevronia's factual errors? ??? On last count, there are well more than 200 people who post here regularly, and you're disappointed that less than 1% of them have stated their unwillingness to engage her?
 

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FWIW: Just on a hunch, I googled the word 'fevronia' and, lo and behold an 11th century Russian tale popped up: "The Tale of Peter and Fevronia of Murom"  on wikipedia

"Apanage prince Paul (Russian: Павел) is disturbed, as a guileful snake has gotten into the habit of visiting his wife disguising himself as the prince. His wife finds out that the only man who can defeat the snake with a magiс sword is Paul's brother, Peter (Russian: Пётр). Peter defeats the snake, but its blood spills on him and his body is covered with aching scabs. No doctors can help, but suddenly Peter hears of Fevronia (Russian: Феврония), a wise young peasant maiden, who promises to heal him. As a reward she wants to marry Peter. When healed, he does not keep his promise and instead sends rich gifts to Fevronia. However, soon Peter's body is again covered with scabs. Fevronia heals him again and this time they get married. Prince Paul soon dies and Peter and Fevronia come to reign in Murom. The boyars are unhappy to have a peasant woman for princess, and they ask Fevronia to leave the city taking with her whatever riches she wants. Fevronia agrees, asking them to let her choose just one thing. The boyars find out that the wise maiden's wish was to only take her husband, so Peter and Fevronia leave Murom together. The city remains without a prince. The boyars start strifes over the reign, Murom is in havoc, and finally Peter and Fevronia are asked to return. They reign wisely and happily until their last days, which they spend in monasteries. They know they will die on the same day and ask to be buried in the same grave."

Now this led me to a proper hagiography on pravmir: http://www.pravmir.com/life-of-the-saints-peter-and-fevronia-of-murom/

(I have to get a good-natured dig in here. If one of our Greek friends posted under a pen name derived from an 11th century Hellenistic teaching hagiography to make a point, SOME of our OCA friends would be in a lather about ethno-centrism and so on...But in the American Church it's OK to borrow from Russian sources of the middle ages without an explanation. Oh well.... )

On a serious note though, one has to beware in analogizing contemporary situations to the lives of the Saints where one really does not know all of the facts about the modern situation - you really have to tred carefully and draw out the proper distinctions rather than simply being coy. Not everyone plays the assigned role of villain or 'boyar' or the role of saint.....
 

FatherGiryus

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Good catch.  Again, operating with a pen name... even less incentive to enter into 'corrective exchange.'  I already have enough fictional characters in my life...

podkarpatska said:
FWIW: Just on a hunch, I googled the word 'fevronia' and, lo and behold an 11th century Russian tale popped up: "The Tale of Peter and Fevronia of Murom"  on wikipedia

"Apanage prince Paul (Russian: Павел) is disturbed, as a guileful snake has gotten into the habit of visiting his wife disguising himself as the prince. His wife finds out that the only man who can defeat the snake with a magiс sword is Paul's brother, Peter (Russian: Пётр). Peter defeats the snake, but its blood spills on him and his body is covered with aching scabs. No doctors can help, but suddenly Peter hears of Fevronia (Russian: Феврония), a wise young peasant maiden, who promises to heal him. As a reward she wants to marry Peter. When healed, he does not keep his promise and instead sends rich gifts to Fevronia. However, soon Peter's body is again covered with scabs. Fevronia heals him again and this time they get married. Prince Paul soon dies and Peter and Fevronia come to reign in Murom. The boyars are unhappy to have a peasant woman for princess, and they ask Fevronia to leave the city taking with her whatever riches she wants. Fevronia agrees, asking them to let her choose just one thing. The boyars find out that the wise maiden's wish was to only take her husband, so Peter and Fevronia leave Murom together. The city remains without a prince. The boyars start strifes over the reign, Murom is in havoc, and finally Peter and Fevronia are asked to return. They reign wisely and happily until their last days, which they spend in monasteries. They know they will die on the same day and ask to be buried in the same grave."

Now this led me to a proper hagiography on pravmir: http://www.pravmir.com/life-of-the-saints-peter-and-fevronia-of-murom/

(I have to get a good-natured dig in here. If one of our Greek friends posted under a pen name derived from an 11th century Hellenistic teaching hagiography to make a point, SOME of our OCA friends would be in a lather about ethno-centrism and so on...But in the American Church it's OK to borrow from Russian sources of the middle ages without an explanation. Oh well.... )

On a serious note though, one has to beware in analogizing contemporary situations to the lives of the Saints where one really does not know all of the facts about the modern situation - you really have to tred carefully and draw out the proper distinctions rather than simply being coy. Not everyone plays the assigned role of villain or 'boyar' or the role of saint.....
 
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