Has anyone heard anything about Met.Jonah resigning? / Met Jonah Resigns / Holy Synod Releases Official Statement about Met. Jonah's Resignation

PrincessMommy

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primuspilus said:
I think that it was more of, he knew about it and did not follow the synod's requests on the matter.

PP
This is exactly how I read it too.  I think the Freeh report on Penn State must have made them sit up and pay attention too.
 

PrincessMommy

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JamesRottnek said:
Second Chance said:
brittrossiter said:
My bishop, +Matthias, has today published a very lengthy new explanation about the reasons why the Holy Synod requested that +Jonah resign, and providing much more detail about the reasons behind the Holy Synod's action.  

A snippet:

"Our request for Metropolitan Jonah’s resignation, or that he take a leave of absence for treatment, came at the end of a rather long list of questionable, unilateral decisions and actions, demonstrating the inability of the Metropolitan to always be truthful and accountable to his peers.  The Metropolitan’s freely-chosen resignation has been characterized by him and others as the result of politics and internal discord among the members of the Holy Synod.  Quite to the contrary, the other members of the Holy Synod stand firmly together in our unanimous astonishment at the Metropolitan’s actions.  We cannot stress enough that while the most recent events are likely the most dangerous for the Church, these represent only the latest in a long series of poor choices that have caused harm to our Church.  We understand and agree that an ability to work or not work well with others, or a challenged administrative skill set, or Metropolitan Jonah’s refusal to comply with the recommendations of the treatment facility, while not the reasons for his requested resignation, were fundamentally related to the consequences of his actions."

http://domoca.org/news_120716_1.html
The same letter was also published at OCA.ORG coming this time in the name of the Holy Synod. The reason given for the publication of this letter was stated in the opening paragraph:

"We, the Holy Synod of Bishops of the Orthodox Church in America, have hesitated to release further details surrounding the resignation of Metropolitan Jonah as Primate of our Church, this in a desire to preserve his dignity and to prevent further harm to an innocent party. We did this knowing there would be appeals for additional information regarding our decision. We also harbored some hope that Metropolitan Jonah would show a willingness to accept responsibility for his actions and failures to act. However, things said and written by Metropolitan Jonah since his resignation have demonstrated that he is not accepting that responsibility." (my emphasis)

http://oca.org/PDF/NEWS/2012/2012-0716-holy-synod-statement.pdf
Where, exactly, did His Beatitude write anything since he resigned?
I would like to know this too.  As far as I know he hasn't spoken publicly since his resignation.
 

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primuspilus said:
Wow. Basically the Synod opened fire in the Metropolitan's reputation.

I dont think they should have released this.

PP
I'm going to assume the 'rationale' behind the destruction of the Metropolitan's reputation is that they are doing it for the good of the Church and that  the end justifies the means.  It's the concept of 'economia' going haywire.  Well I have news for anyone who thinks this way, the Church is the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit doesn't work through sin...so no matter how one looks at it, to slander and calumniate another person is  a sin. :mad:
 

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brittrossiter said:
My bishop, +Matthias, has today published a very lengthy new explanation about the reasons why the Holy Synod requested that +Jonah resign, and providing much more detail about the reasons behind the Holy Synod's action.  

A snippet:

"Our request for Metropolitan Jonah’s resignation, or that he take a leave of absence for treatment, came at the end of a rather long list of questionable, unilateral decisions and actions, demonstrating the inability of the Metropolitan to always be truthful and accountable to his peers.  The Metropolitan’s freely-chosen resignation has been characterized by him and others as the result of politics and internal discord among the members of the Holy Synod.  Quite to the contrary, the other members of the Holy Synod stand firmly together in our unanimous astonishment at the Metropolitan’s actions.  We cannot stress enough that while the most recent events are likely the most dangerous for the Church, these represent only the latest in a long series of poor choices that have caused harm to our Church.  We understand and agree that an ability to work or not work well with others, or a challenged administrative skill set, or Metropolitan Jonah’s refusal to comply with the recommendations of the treatment facility, while not the reasons for his requested resignation, were fundamentally related to the consequences of his actions."

http://domoca.org/news_120716_1.html
What did they want him "treated' for?
 

PeterTheAleut

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Zenovia said:
primuspilus said:
Wow. Basically the Synod opened fire in the Metropolitan's reputation.

I dont think they should have released this.

PP
I'm going to assume the 'rationale' behind the destruction of the Metropolitan's reputation is that they are doing it for the good of the Church and that  the end justifies the means.   It's the concept of 'economia' going haywire.   Well I have news for anyone who thinks this way, the Church is the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit doesn't work through sin...so no matter how one looks at it, to slander and calumniate another person is  a sin. :mad:
Zenovia,

This is a very serious matter besetting the Orthodox Church in America right now. Your continued judgment of the Holy Synod of the OCA based merely on hearsay and gross conjecture is very insensitive and not at all in keeping with what we need to do at this moment. In fact, it's exactly the kind of calumny you condemn. Therefore, speaking only as a poster, I'm asking you to back off and refrain from submitting any more posts like this.
 

witega

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Second Chance said:
You would have to read the entire letter to understand the particulars of the Holy Synod's case against +Jonah.
Point of order: It's not really a 'case against +Jonah' because the Holy Synod has (once again) decided to forgo canonical procedures and actually hold a spiritual court. At some point, the question the Holy Synod really should address is why, if they have actual an actual case against Metropolitan Jonah (or Metropolitan Herman, or Metropolitan Theodosius, or Bishop Nicholai of Alaska or...), they never actually prosecute that case in the manner prescribed by the canons of the Church (or indeed the statutes of the OCA). Canonical due process protects not only the accused but the accusers by bringing the accusations out for actual scrutiny by all sides. By avoiding following canonical process, the bishops of the Synod are basically asking for the matter to be tried 'in the court of public opinion', with rumor and gossip flying and their own motives and claims just thrown into the mix.
 

88Devin12

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+Matthias and the Synod did the right thing I think in releasing that statement. I think many of us, still scared and reeling from the previous scandals (and abuse we or unnamed acquaintances suffered) and we desire some amount of transparency.

One can release an explanation behind a move like this which affects those of us who are members of the OCA. But that explanation doesn't have to release additional names or information that may endanger other parties involved in whatever issues caused the request for retirement.

I am glad it was our own Bishop Matthias who first released this information. From the brief times I've gotten to speak with him and from what I've heard from others, he is a good man and a good successor to Archbishop Job.
 

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Second Chance said:
JamesRottnek said:
Second Chance said:
brittrossiter said:
My bishop, +Matthias, has today published a very lengthy new explanation about the reasons why the Holy Synod requested that +Jonah resign, and providing much more detail about the reasons behind the Holy Synod's action.  

A snippet:

"Our request for Metropolitan Jonah’s resignation, or that he take a leave of absence for treatment, came at the end of a rather long list of questionable, unilateral decisions and actions, demonstrating the inability of the Metropolitan to always be truthful and accountable to his peers.  The Metropolitan’s freely-chosen resignation has been characterized by him and others as the result of politics and internal discord among the members of the Holy Synod.  Quite to the contrary, the other members of the Holy Synod stand firmly together in our unanimous astonishment at the Metropolitan’s actions.  We cannot stress enough that while the most recent events are likely the most dangerous for the Church, these represent only the latest in a long series of poor choices that have caused harm to our Church.  We understand and agree that an ability to work or not work well with others, or a challenged administrative skill set, or Metropolitan Jonah’s refusal to comply with the recommendations of the treatment facility, while not the reasons for his requested resignation, were fundamentally related to the consequences of his actions."

http://domoca.org/news_120716_1.html
The same letter was also published at OCA.ORG coming this time in the name of the Holy Synod. The reason given for the publication of this letter was stated in the opening paragraph:

"We, the Holy Synod of Bishops of the Orthodox Church in America, have hesitated to release further details surrounding the resignation of Metropolitan Jonah as Primate of our Church, this in a desire to preserve his dignity and to prevent further harm to an innocent party. We did this knowing there would be appeals for additional information regarding our decision. We also harbored some hope that Metropolitan Jonah would show a willingness to accept responsibility for his actions and failures to act. However, things said and written by Metropolitan Jonah since his resignation have demonstrated that he is not accepting that responsibility." (my emphasis)

http://oca.org/PDF/NEWS/2012/2012-0716-holy-synod-statement.pdf
Where, exactly, did His Beatitude write anything since he resigned?
I cannot find anything that he has said publicly. However, plenty of his supporters have said plenty in public, including many hiding behind fake Internet names, citing information that could have come only from +Jonah.
Would you please provide us with links to where His Eminence's supporters have posted public comments about his resignation?
 

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Basil 320 said:
Second Chance said:
JamesRottnek said:
Second Chance said:
brittrossiter said:
My bishop, +Matthias, has today published a very lengthy new explanation about the reasons why the Holy Synod requested that +Jonah resign, and providing much more detail about the reasons behind the Holy Synod's action.  

A snippet:

"Our request for Metropolitan Jonah’s resignation, or that he take a leave of absence for treatment, came at the end of a rather long list of questionable, unilateral decisions and actions, demonstrating the inability of the Metropolitan to always be truthful and accountable to his peers.  The Metropolitan’s freely-chosen resignation has been characterized by him and others as the result of politics and internal discord among the members of the Holy Synod.  Quite to the contrary, the other members of the Holy Synod stand firmly together in our unanimous astonishment at the Metropolitan’s actions.  We cannot stress enough that while the most recent events are likely the most dangerous for the Church, these represent only the latest in a long series of poor choices that have caused harm to our Church.  We understand and agree that an ability to work or not work well with others, or a challenged administrative skill set, or Metropolitan Jonah’s refusal to comply with the recommendations of the treatment facility, while not the reasons for his requested resignation, were fundamentally related to the consequences of his actions."

http://domoca.org/news_120716_1.html
The same letter was also published at OCA.ORG coming this time in the name of the Holy Synod. The reason given for the publication of this letter was stated in the opening paragraph:

"We, the Holy Synod of Bishops of the Orthodox Church in America, have hesitated to release further details surrounding the resignation of Metropolitan Jonah as Primate of our Church, this in a desire to preserve his dignity and to prevent further harm to an innocent party. We did this knowing there would be appeals for additional information regarding our decision. We also harbored some hope that Metropolitan Jonah would show a willingness to accept responsibility for his actions and failures to act. However, things said and written by Metropolitan Jonah since his resignation have demonstrated that he is not accepting that responsibility." (my emphasis)

http://oca.org/PDF/NEWS/2012/2012-0716-holy-synod-statement.pdf
Where, exactly, did His Beatitude write anything since he resigned?
I cannot find anything that he has said publicly. However, plenty of his supporters have said plenty in public, including many hiding behind fake Internet names, citing information that could have come only from +Jonah.
Would you please provide us with links to where His Eminence's supporters have posted public comments about his resignation?
Read Monomakhos, which has well over 1,000 comments on the matter.
 

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Basil 320 said:
Second Chance said:
JamesRottnek said:
Second Chance said:
brittrossiter said:
My bishop, +Matthias, has today published a very lengthy new explanation about the reasons why the Holy Synod requested that +Jonah resign, and providing much more detail about the reasons behind the Holy Synod's action.  

A snippet:

"Our request for Metropolitan Jonah’s resignation, or that he take a leave of absence for treatment, came at the end of a rather long list of questionable, unilateral decisions and actions, demonstrating the inability of the Metropolitan to always be truthful and accountable to his peers.  The Metropolitan’s freely-chosen resignation has been characterized by him and others as the result of politics and internal discord among the members of the Holy Synod.  Quite to the contrary, the other members of the Holy Synod stand firmly together in our unanimous astonishment at the Metropolitan’s actions.  We cannot stress enough that while the most recent events are likely the most dangerous for the Church, these represent only the latest in a long series of poor choices that have caused harm to our Church.  We understand and agree that an ability to work or not work well with others, or a challenged administrative skill set, or Metropolitan Jonah’s refusal to comply with the recommendations of the treatment facility, while not the reasons for his requested resignation, were fundamentally related to the consequences of his actions."

http://domoca.org/news_120716_1.html
The same letter was also published at OCA.ORG coming this time in the name of the Holy Synod. The reason given for the publication of this letter was stated in the opening paragraph:

"We, the Holy Synod of Bishops of the Orthodox Church in America, have hesitated to release further details surrounding the resignation of Metropolitan Jonah as Primate of our Church, this in a desire to preserve his dignity and to prevent further harm to an innocent party. We did this knowing there would be appeals for additional information regarding our decision. We also harbored some hope that Metropolitan Jonah would show a willingness to accept responsibility for his actions and failures to act. However, things said and written by Metropolitan Jonah since his resignation have demonstrated that he is not accepting that responsibility." (my emphasis)

http://oca.org/PDF/NEWS/2012/2012-0716-holy-synod-statement.pdf
Where, exactly, did His Beatitude write anything since he resigned?
I cannot find anything that he has said publicly. However, plenty of his supporters have said plenty in public, including many hiding behind fake Internet names, citing information that could have come only from +Jonah.
Would you please provide us with links to where His Eminence's supporters have posted public comments about his resignation?
Also curious about the claim of information that could have only come from +Jonah? I've been watching the debate on some of the sites where it's gotten decidedly more heated than here and I can't think of any 'facts' (with the caveat that what are fact is obviously part of what's being fiercely debated) that couldn't have come from multiple sources--including of course members of the Synod who are presumably in possession of all the facts.
 

JamesR

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Is there a chance that Bishop Benjamin of San Francisco/West Coast will become the new metropolitan? He is my local Bishop and I've met him once before and he seems like a really nice man.
 

88Devin12

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pensateomnia said:
Basil 320 said:
Second Chance said:
JamesRottnek said:
Second Chance said:
brittrossiter said:
My bishop, +Matthias, has today published a very lengthy new explanation about the reasons why the Holy Synod requested that +Jonah resign, and providing much more detail about the reasons behind the Holy Synod's action.  

A snippet:

"Our request for Metropolitan Jonah’s resignation, or that he take a leave of absence for treatment, came at the end of a rather long list of questionable, unilateral decisions and actions, demonstrating the inability of the Metropolitan to always be truthful and accountable to his peers.  The Metropolitan’s freely-chosen resignation has been characterized by him and others as the result of politics and internal discord among the members of the Holy Synod.  Quite to the contrary, the other members of the Holy Synod stand firmly together in our unanimous astonishment at the Metropolitan’s actions.  We cannot stress enough that while the most recent events are likely the most dangerous for the Church, these represent only the latest in a long series of poor choices that have caused harm to our Church.  We understand and agree that an ability to work or not work well with others, or a challenged administrative skill set, or Metropolitan Jonah’s refusal to comply with the recommendations of the treatment facility, while not the reasons for his requested resignation, were fundamentally related to the consequences of his actions."

http://domoca.org/news_120716_1.html
The same letter was also published at OCA.ORG coming this time in the name of the Holy Synod. The reason given for the publication of this letter was stated in the opening paragraph:

"We, the Holy Synod of Bishops of the Orthodox Church in America, have hesitated to release further details surrounding the resignation of Metropolitan Jonah as Primate of our Church, this in a desire to preserve his dignity and to prevent further harm to an innocent party. We did this knowing there would be appeals for additional information regarding our decision. We also harbored some hope that Metropolitan Jonah would show a willingness to accept responsibility for his actions and failures to act. However, things said and written by Metropolitan Jonah since his resignation have demonstrated that he is not accepting that responsibility." (my emphasis)

http://oca.org/PDF/NEWS/2012/2012-0716-holy-synod-statement.pdf
Where, exactly, did His Beatitude write anything since he resigned?
I cannot find anything that he has said publicly. However, plenty of his supporters have said plenty in public, including many hiding behind fake Internet names, citing information that could have come only from +Jonah.
Would you please provide us with links to where His Eminence's supporters have posted public comments about his resignation?
Read Monomakhos, which has well over 1,000 comments on the matter.
While I'm sure we were part of the problem, I think monomakhos was a huge part of the vitriolic rumor mill. I don't really think we should rely too much on what is said on there.

There is a difference between feeding (possibly false) rumors and venting frustration in a rant. From what I had read on monomakhos, a lot of it was the former rather than the latter, and sadly I'll admit a lot of it fed my own frustration and anger, even though I knew it was probably B.S.
 

Zenovia

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Second Chance said:
JamesRottnek said:
Second Chance said:
brittrossiter said:
My bishop, +Matthias, has today published a very lengthy new explanation about the reasons why the Holy Synod requested that +Jonah resign, and providing much more detail about the reasons behind the Holy Synod's action.  

A snippet:

"Our request for Metropolitan Jonah’s resignation, or that he take a leave of absence for treatment, came at the end of a rather long list of questionable, unilateral decisions and actions, demonstrating the inability of the Metropolitan to always be truthful and accountable to his peers.  The Metropolitan’s freely-chosen resignation has been characterized by him and others as the result of politics and internal discord among the members of the Holy Synod.  Quite to the contrary, the other members of the Holy Synod stand firmly together in our unanimous astonishment at the Metropolitan’s actions.  We cannot stress enough that while the most recent events are likely the most dangerous for the Church, these represent only the latest in a long series of poor choices that have caused harm to our Church.  We understand and agree that an ability to work or not work well with others, or a challenged administrative skill set, or Metropolitan Jonah’s refusal to comply with the recommendations of the treatment facility, while not the reasons for his requested resignation, were fundamentally related to the consequences of his actions."

http://domoca.org/news_120716_1.html
The same letter was also published at OCA.ORG coming this time in the name of the Holy Synod. The reason given for the publication of this letter was stated in the opening paragraph:

"We, the Holy Synod of Bishops of the Orthodox Church in America, have hesitated to release further details surrounding the resignation of Metropolitan Jonah as Primate of our Church, this in a desire to preserve his dignity and to prevent further harm to an innocent party. We did this knowing there would be appeals for additional information regarding our decision. We also harbored some hope that Metropolitan Jonah would show a willingness to accept responsibility for his actions and failures to act. However, things said and written by Metropolitan Jonah since his resignation have demonstrated that he is not accepting that responsibility." (my emphasis)

http://oca.org/PDF/NEWS/2012/2012-0716-holy-synod-statement.pdf
Where, exactly, did His Beatitude write anything since he resigned?
I cannot find anything that he has said publicly. However, plenty of his supporters have said plenty in public, including many hiding behind fake Internet names, citing information that could have come only from +Jonah.
Maybe his supporters are in a position where they would have this information.  To believe that the Metropolitan is going out and saying things deliberately, seems very paranoid to me.  The reason I'm saying this is because I have seen these things occur before.  Satan is alive and well, and there is nothing he is more adept at than putting suspicions in people's minds.   :mad:
 

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Zenovia said:
Satan is alive and well, and there is nothing he is more adept at than putting suspicions in people's minds.   :mad:
Like planting suspicion in the minds of the faithful that their hierarchs have ousted their metropolitan out of entirely self-serving reasons when that may not be the case?
 

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88Devin12 said:
+Matthias and the Synod did the right thing I think in releasing that statement. I think many of us, still scared and reeling from the previous scandals (and abuse we or unnamed acquaintances suffered) and we desire some amount of transparency.

One can release an explanation behind a move like this which affects those of us who are members of the OCA. But that explanation doesn't have to release additional names or information that may endanger other parties involved in whatever issues caused the request for retirement.

I am glad it was our own Bishop Matthias who first released this information. From the brief times I've gotten to speak with him and from what I've heard from others, he is a good man and a good successor to Archbishop Job.
I agree. His grace gave us enough information to know that this isn't simply a case of "the old gaurd" ousting Met Jonah for self serving reasons, and without giving any detailed information about the specifc persons involved.
 

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Chica, wake up and smell the coffee - the Holy Synod did this because of the lies and gossip people were spreading, to put a stop to it. Eish...

Zenovia said:
primuspilus said:
Wow. Basically the Synod opened fire in the Metropolitan's reputation.

I dont think they should have released this.

PP
I'm going to assume the 'rationale' behind the destruction of the Metropolitan's reputation is that they are doing it for the good of the Church and that  the end justifies the means.   It's the concept of 'economia' going haywire.   Well I have news for anyone who thinks this way, the Church is the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit doesn't work through sin...so no matter how one looks at it, to slander and calumniate another person is  a sin. :mad:
 

Second Chance

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witega said:
Second Chance said:
You would have to read the entire letter to understand the particulars of the Holy Synod's case against +Jonah.
Point of order: It's not really a 'case against +Jonah' because the Holy Synod has (once again) decided to forgo canonical procedures and actually hold a spiritual court. At some point, the question the Holy Synod really should address is why, if they have actual an actual case against Metropolitan Jonah (or Metropolitan Herman, or Metropolitan Theodosius, or Bishop Nicholai of Alaska or...), they never actually prosecute that case in the manner prescribed by the canons of the Church (or indeed the statutes of the OCA). Canonical due process protects not only the accused but the accusers by bringing the accusations out for actual scrutiny by all sides. By avoiding following canonical process, the bishops of the Synod are basically asking for the matter to be tried 'in the court of public opinion', with rumor and gossip flying and their own motives and claims just thrown into the mix.
Witega--I know that you are familiar with Canons of the Church. That said, wouldn't you agree that the OCA Statute has the force of canons for the OCA? If that is the case (and I believe it to be so), then the Holy Synod has the canonical power to ask for and to approve retirements. Would it have been better in the cases that you mention to have used the route of Spiritual Court, which involves more bishops that the OCA had (has?). The latter approach may have been more definitive; however, I submit that the approach that has been taken to date has also been canonical, albeit one that does not bring as much closure.
 

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Officially, it's probably unfortunate that the Holy Synod issued the statement today, but now that I've read it, thank God the Synod took the action they took.  It's a sad situation.  Their action seemed to be taken reluctantly and they do not seem to rejoice in it.  Wow was I wrong in doubting the Synod last week, although I thought the reasoning that was being discussed on these internet forums seemed highly unlikely.  The Synod did what it had to do, and I think still tried to maintain some decorum the best they could given the circumstances.

What do others think about this?  Given the "misfeasance, malfeasance, and nonfeasance" enabled for 19 years by the two primates who preceeded Metropolitan Jonah, as set forth in the SIC (Special Investigative Committee) Report ('08), the administrative problems associated with Metropolitan Jonah's primatial service, including his resignation, the manner in which it came about, and the reasons for it, I think the Synod should work toward reestablishing credibility among the priests, deacons, and laity, and take their time electing the new primate (although I think I've seen that the statute calls for an election within 90 days or so).  I imagine there would be a great deal of cynicism--lots of eye rolling ("Oh no, now what?), that would greet a new metropolitan.  Also, because of the distrust, the new metropolitan will have quite a task promoting new initiatives; a qualified hierarch's initial challenges could work against the possibility of the success of his long term primatial service.  Should the Synod secure the concurrence of the Metropolitan Council to delay the election for a year?  Of course, another approach would be, as a new parish priest may often act, for the new primate to preach the message of the Gospels, the salvic message of the church, and avoid any new administrative initiatives to restore credibility.  Your thoughts?
 

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I don't think the Holy Synod's credibility is in question, unless you're such a blind devotee of our former metropolitan that you can't believe the facts put forward in the Holy Synod's statement. I honestly don't know who would want to be our metropolitan, but wouldn't it be better to get on with things than to make them even more drawn out and uncertain? (Which waiting a year certainly would do.)

Basil 320 said:
Officially, it's probably unfortunate that the Holy Synod issued the statement today, but now that I've read it, thank God the Synod took the action they took.  It's a sad situation.  Their action seemed to be taken reluctantly and they do not seem to rejoice in it.  Wow was I wrong in doubting the Synod last week, although I thought the reasoning that was being discussed on these internet forums seemed highly unlikely.  The Synod did what it had to do, and I think still tried to maintain some decorum the best they could given the circumstances.

What do others think about this?  Given the "misfeasance, malfeasance, and nonfeasance" enabled for 19 years by the two primates who preceeded Metropolitan Jonah, as set forth in the SIC (Special Investigative Committee) Report ('08), the administrative problems associated with Metropolitan Jonah's primatial service, including his resignation, the manner in which it came about, and the reasons for it, I think the Synod should work toward reestablishing credibility among the priests, deacons, and laity, and take their time electing the new primate (although I think I've seen that the statute calls for an election within 90 days or so).  I imagine there would be a great deal of cynicism--lots of eye rolling ("Oh no, now what?), that would greet a new metropolitan.  Also, because of the distrust, the new metropolitan will have quite a task promoting new initiatives; a qualified hierarch's initial challenges could work against the possibility of the success of his long term primatial service.  Should the Synod secure the concurrence of the Metropolitan Council to delay the election for a year?  Of course, another approach would be, as a new parish priest may often act, for the new primate to preach the message of the Gospels, the salvic message of the church, and avoid any new administrative initiatives to restore credibility.  Your thoughts?
 
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