has anyone here actually waited till marriage to have sex ?

[celticfan1888]

Sadly I didn't, and I wish I did, because now when my fiancee and I have our wedding night it won't be as special, considering we...yeah anyway, without getting graphic, I regret it. So stay celibate till marriage.

 

[NicholasMyra]

I too, have a conundrum: in many books I read, masturbation was explained as "sin with the devil". Now, was I thinking, isn't it better to sin with an actual human?

The Fathers knew the greater devil.

In the words of Carl Jung:

"A particularly beautiful woman is a source of terror. As a rule, a beautiful woman is a terrible disappointment."

 

[MarkosC]

re: the title of this thread, I know some people who have, and many, many more who likely have.  Most people I know don’t really advertise either way – and I would be wary of people who advertise their sexual lives or lack thereof.  To find such a member of the oppose sex, my own practical advice would just be to hang around and meet people. 

IMO, sex is a statement of permanent love between the two people, with God, and with the children that frequent sex can produce.  If we take these out of the equation – especially the first three – then we have serious problems. 

Also, whether one has/hasn’t had sex before IMO is not as important as what one thinks right now (i.e. what’s in one’s heart, to say nothing of repentance, means a lot), as well as one’s attempt to live it (i.e. being chaste because you have no libido is easy.  Being chaste – both in body and in your heart - while being really horny is to be a witness)

Besides, what's wrong with promiscuous girls?

If you get involved with one, you might be unfortunate enough to find out.

"Amen" to that.  A truly promiscuous person (not just someone who’s had sex outside of marriage, but one who actively goes about looking for frequent sex with different people) uses sex and their sexual partners as toys.  In the end, they don’t care at all about either beyond their own pleasure.  They also don’t really care about their health, for that matter.  Ick! 

Instead of forcing us to take the hard path by fasting and doing all of that aforementioned stuff, why don't God take responsibility for His creations and do something for us? Sure, He became incarnate and defeated death, but that doesn't change the fact that He has still given us an impossible ethical code to follow. Maybe I don't want to accept the honor of being called to become a God and would rather stay an animal.

Maybe if He didn't allow my mother to be abused and live her life without a male role model (fatherless) then she would not have fornicated...

"Doing something for us" or "making it easy" would be an indication that he doesn't want us to participate with him in something, i.e. goodness, love for your spouse, or in creation of new humans.  It would also imply that we're just God's toys, and/or that sex is some sort of unimportant automatic task like eating or resting or some such. 

I am also very sorry that your mother's story has been so difficult.  But again, we're not God's pets or toys.  He respects our choices, to include our sinfulness, and often does not save us from the consequence of our sins, nor does he necessarily "save" the innocent from the consequences of others' sin.  This is why sin can be so horrible - it has consequences for you and can often have horrible consequences for other people, a cycle that can perpetuate itself.  Salvation is the opposite - it is our invitation to participate with God and break such cycles.  From a pastoral perspective -looking out for the good of the people of the church - abuse is always wrong and needs to be directly, unequivocally condemned.  Fornication is also wrong it is arguably "not as bad", and how to deal with it for the good of the person can vary - direct unequivocal condemnation in some cases is not the best way.  Rather, working with people slowly and patiently is often better. 

Again, IMO, from salvation's perspective what happens before - to you, to me, to anyone - is not as important as what is done today.

 

[Cognomen]

because now when my fiancee and I have our wedding night it won't be as special...

You must've accidentally edited out the part where you wrote that you also regret it because it's explicitly forbidden by Church teachings.   olice:

 

[pensateomnia]

For much of history, people got married around the time their sexual appetites got to that point. The biggest issue may be that people wait 10 years longer to marry than their bodies say they should.

It depends on what you mean by "history." In most civilized contexts, including ancient China, Egypt, Greece, Rome, Britain -- basically, almost any place on Earth during periods where there was some degree of stable government, from ancient times through the medieval period -- it was very unusual for men to get married before the age of 20 and more typical for them to marry in their late twenties or even early 30s. The age for women varied, but it was typically well after the beginning of puberty and, in many areas, reserved for those in the late teens or even early twenties. Rich/noble people tended to marry on the earlier side of the spectrum; normal people on the later.

 

[Achronos]

because now when my fiancee and I have our wedding night it won't be as special...

You must've accidentally edited out the part where you wrote that you also regret it because it's explicitly forbidden by Church teachings.   olice:

I think James wants an answer outside the Church

 

[orthonorm]

If my mom hadn't fornicated then I wouldn't be here.

Balaam's ass and all that.

Best reply yet.

 

[orthonorm]

I too, have a conundrum: in many books I read, masturbation was explained as "sin with the devil". Now, was I thinking, isn't it better to sin with an actual human?

The Fathers knew the greater devil.

In the words of Carl Jung:

"A particularly beautiful woman is a source of terror. As a rule, a beautiful woman is a terrible disappointment."

You should read about the sorta husband good ol' Jung was.

Nut job.

Freud made a terrible decision passing his mantle on, so to speak, to him.

Thankfully, no one takes him seriously outside newage books stores.

 

[Achronos]

I too, have a conundrum: in many books I read, masturbation was explained as "sin with the devil". Now, was I thinking, isn't it better to sin with an actual human?

The Fathers knew the greater devil.

In the words of Carl Jung:

"A particularly beautiful woman is a source of terror. As a rule, a beautiful woman is a terrible disappointment."

You should read about the sorta husband good ol' Jung was.

Nut job.

Freud made a terrible decision passing his mantle on, so to speak, to him.

Thankfully, no one takes him seriously outside newage books stores.

There some stuff I like of Jung but a few things he gets weird. Never liked Freud when I studied him.

 

[orthonorm]

I too, have a conundrum: in many books I read, masturbation was explained as "sin with the devil". Now, was I thinking, isn't it better to sin with an actual human?

The Fathers knew the greater devil.

In the words of Carl Jung:

"A particularly beautiful woman is a source of terror. As a rule, a beautiful woman is a terrible disappointment."

You should read about the sorta husband good ol' Jung was.

Nut job.

Freud made a terrible decision passing his mantle on, so to speak, to him.

Thankfully, no one takes him seriously outside newage books stores.

There some stuff I like of Jung but a few things he gets weird. Never liked Freud when I studied him.

Freud is brilliant.

Jung is a goof.

And I'll leave it at that.

 

[Jibrail Almuhajir]

I too, have a conundrum: in many books I read, masturbation was explained as "sin with the devil". Now, was I thinking, isn't it better to sin with an actual human?

The Fathers knew the greater devil.

In the words of Carl Jung:

"A particularly beautiful woman is a source of terror. As a rule, a beautiful woman is a terrible disappointment."

Thankfully, no one takes him seriously outside newage books stores.

For the most part, yes.  Yet I have found his studies on personalities interesting.  Particularly Briggs-Myers usage of Jung's 'personality type' studies.  For the record, I identify with ISFJ type.  

 

[Jibrail Almuhajir]

I too, have a conundrum: in many books I read, masturbation was explained as "sin with the devil". Now, was I thinking, isn't it better to sin with an actual human?

The Fathers knew the greater devil.

In the words of Carl Jung:

"A particularly beautiful woman is a source of terror. As a rule, a beautiful woman is a terrible disappointment."

You should read about the sorta husband good ol' Jung was.

Nut job.

Freud made a terrible decision passing his mantle on, so to speak, to him.

Thankfully, no one takes him seriously outside newage books stores.

There some stuff I like of Jung but a few things he gets weird. Never liked Freud when I studied him.

Freud is brilliant.

Jung is a goof.

And I'll leave it at that.

You're in a very small circle, my friend.

 

[orthonorm]

I too, have a conundrum: in many books I read, masturbation was explained as "sin with the devil". Now, was I thinking, isn't it better to sin with an actual human?

The Fathers knew the greater devil.

In the words of Carl Jung:

"A particularly beautiful woman is a source of terror. As a rule, a beautiful woman is a terrible disappointment."

Thankfully, no one takes him seriously outside newage books stores.

For the most part, yes.  Yet I have found his studies on personalities interesting.  Particularly Briggs-Myers usage of Jung's 'personality type' studies.  For the record, I identify with ISFJ type.  

Myers-Briggs is nonsense in the end like most popular personality tests.

They tell you what you think about yourself, which is why most people overscore on the less commonly distributed but more highly regarded characteristics.

The most important thing I get from your score is that you probably pretty darn honest as you chose one of the most boring / common combos.

Good for you.

 

[orthonorm]

I too, have a conundrum: in many books I read, masturbation was explained as "sin with the devil". Now, was I thinking, isn't it better to sin with an actual human?

The Fathers knew the greater devil.

In the words of Carl Jung:

"A particularly beautiful woman is a source of terror. As a rule, a beautiful woman is a terrible disappointment."

You should read about the sorta husband good ol' Jung was.

Nut job.

Freud made a terrible decision passing his mantle on, so to speak, to him.

Thankfully, no one takes him seriously outside newage books stores.

There some stuff I like of Jung but a few things he gets weird. Never liked Freud when I studied him.

Freud is brilliant.

Jung is a goof.

And I'll leave it at that.

You're in a very small circle, my friend.

Actually I am not. If you look at who has had the most most impact on thought Freud easily trumps Jung from the common parlance to academia.

 

[orthonorm]

Your big three:

Nietzsche, Marx, Freud.

Can't imagine our world without them. And it certainly better for them.

Each has some interesting things to say about sex and marriage. In fact, you probably know some of the quotes without knowing their origin. Who knows?

Too bad each gets read too often by eyes too young to really appreciate them.

Oh well.

 

[Jibrail Almuhajir]

I too, have a conundrum: in many books I read, masturbation was explained as "sin with the devil". Now, was I thinking, isn't it better to sin with an actual human?

The Fathers knew the greater devil.

In the words of Carl Jung:

"A particularly beautiful woman is a source of terror. As a rule, a beautiful woman is a terrible disappointment."

Thankfully, no one takes him seriously outside newage books stores.

For the most part, yes.  Yet I have found his studies on personalities interesting.  Particularly Briggs-Myers usage of Jung's 'personality type' studies.  For the record, I identify with ISFJ type.  

Myers-Briggs is nonsense in the end like most popular personality tests.

They tell you what you think about yourself, which is why most people overscore on the less commonly distributed but more highly regarded characteristics.

The most important thing I get from your score is that you probably pretty darn honest as you chose one of the most boring / common combos.

Good for you.

Yup, I'm country-boy vanilla. 

 

[Jibrail Almuhajir]

Your big three:

Nietzsche, Marx, Freud.

Can't imagine our world without them. And it certainly better for them.

Each has some interesting things to say about sex and marriage. In fact, you probably know some of the quotes without knowing their origin. Who knows?

Too bad each gets read too often by eyes too young to really appreciate them.

Oh well.

I disagree with your assesment.  Instead of lauding these 'big three', I advocate studying Scripture and Patristics first for in them you will find a thorough understanding of the human condition far superior.

 

[neon_knights]

Sure, He became incarnate and defeated death, but that doesn't change the fact that He has still given us an impossible ethical code to follow.

Time to go back to trying to read Romans.

+ 500 million.

James, seriously, do it. A healthy understanding of Romans will change your whole outlook on faith.

 

[NicholasMyra]

Myers-Briggs is nonsense

Thank you.

If someone brings up their score in conversation, I normally seek to end the conversation.

 

[celticfan1888]

because now when my fiancee and I have our wedding night it won't be as special...

You must've accidentally edited out the part where you wrote that you also regret it because it's explicitly forbidden by Church teachings.   olice:

Obvious reason is obvious. ;P

 

[Punch]

If my mom hadn't fornicated then I wouldn't be here.

That is why God looks down on Fornication.

 

[vamrat]

Myers-Briggs is nonsense

Thank you.

If someone brings up their score in conversation, I normally seek to end the conversation.

I scored a straight 100.  You're just jealous.

As for the OP - I have heard strange stories from the ancient past of such things taking place in the time of the Nephilim...

 

[NicholasMyra]

As for the OP - I have heard strange stories from the ancient past of such things taking place in the time of the Nephilim...

James is a giant hybrid between the sons of the Elohim and human concubines?

No wonder he has so much lady drama. 

 

[Punch]

When I read of James' fantasies, I cannot help but think of a Chihuahua and a German Shepherd that I saw once.  The Chihuahua was going to town on the Shepherd's leg, and the Shepherd had a most confused look on her face.

 

[Achronos]

If my mom hadn't fornicated then I wouldn't be here.

That is why God looks down on Fornication.

 

[Manalive]

Your big three:

Nietzsche, Marx, Freud.

Can't imagine our world without them. And it certainly better for them.

Each has some interesting things to say about sex and marriage. In fact, you probably know some of the quotes without knowing their origin. Who knows?

Too bad each gets read too often by eyes too young to really appreciate them.

Oh well.

If only Lenin had read Marx when he was a little older. There wouldn't have been so many New Martyrs and Confessors if he had just appreciated Marx when he brain was fully developed.

 

[biro]

[quote author=orthonorm]

Myers-Briggs is nonsense in the end like most popular personality tests.

[/quote]

Is that the one they had in the beginning of 'Blade Runner'?

 

[Achronos]

[quote author=orthonorm]

Myers-Briggs is nonsense in the end like most popular personality tests.

Is that the one they had in the beginning of 'Blade Runner'?
[/quote]
No that's the Voight Kampf test. Completely different. Are you a replicant biro!?

 

[biro]

Nah, my eyes don't have a stripe in them. 

 

[Achronos]

Nah, my eyes don't have a stripe in them. 

How can it not know what it is?

 

[Jibrail Almuhajir]

Myers-Briggs is nonsense

Thank you.

If someone brings up their score in conversation, I normally seek to end the conversation.

Why does it bother you so much?  Why do you believe it's nonsense?

 

[Punch]

If someone brings up their score in conversation, I normally seek to end the conversation.

Why does it bother you so much?  Why do you believe it's nonsense?

When someone dismisses the MB as nonsense, I usually dismiss them as an idiot.  Like the KAI, it is a useful tool, and I have seen what happens when it is ignored. But like any tool, it cannot be used exclusively and works best when it is part of a battery of tests along with personal observation.  BTW - I scored an INTJ on the test administered by my company.  Knowing this, and some of the other things that I learned during testing, really helped me with my job.

 

[Jibrail Almuhajir]

If someone brings up their score in conversation, I normally seek to end the conversation.

Why does it bother you so much?  Why do you believe it's nonsense?

When someone dismisses the MB as nonsense, I usually dismiss them as an idiot.  Like the KAI, it is a useful tool, and I have seen what happens when it is ignored. But like any tool, it cannot be used exclusively and works best when it is part of a battery of tests along with personal observation.  BTW - I scored an INTJ on the test administered by my company.  Knowing this, and some of the other things that I learned during testing, really helped me with my job.

I was thinking the same things re: using the MBTI as a helpful tool.  I was also aware of many companies using it which is why I was interested in why Nicholas dismisses it.  I'm still waiting for his reply, and I'd also like to add a question:  Nicholas, are you in Human Resources or a Psychologist?

 

[NicholasMyra]

Why do you believe it's nonsense?

Because it doesn't tell you anything you don't already know.

 

[NicholasMyra]

I was also aware of many companies using it

HR cults do a lot of things, Gabe.

 

[orthonorm]

If someone brings up their score in conversation, I normally seek to end the conversation.

Why does it bother you so much?  Why do you believe it's nonsense?

When someone dismisses the MB as nonsense, I usually dismiss them as an idiot.  Like the KAI, it is a useful tool, and I have seen what happens when it is ignored. But like any tool, it cannot be used exclusively and works best when it is part of a battery of tests along with personal observation.  BTW - I scored an INTJ on the test administered by my company.  Knowing this, and some of the other things that I learned during testing, really helped me with my job.

I was thinking the same things re: using the MBTI as a helpful tool.  I was also aware of many companies using it which is why I was interested in why Nicholas dismisses it.  I'm still waiting for his reply, and I'd also like to add a question:  Nicholas, are you in Human Resources or a Psychologist?

No legitimate psychologist uses a MB. Companies like to do this sorta thing cause they get sold on it by those who hawk their wares cause it seems to boost morale a bit, much like some motivational speakers (revival tent preacher), "team building" BS, etc.

Of course every so many years they change the test so people can get the narcissistic joy of taking some tool that has zero help in diagnosing much of anything especially anything that might actually point toward psychological problems.

MB
Enneagram
Strength Finder
etc.

Tell us about yourself in some straight forward fashion and will give you some jargon about how to talk more about yourself.

E/INT/FP.

People over score on the N/P according to the very documentation which started this whole mess would suggest exists in the world.

Know thyself in an hour or less.

Kind criticism of it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers-Briggs_Type_Indicator#Validity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers-Briggs_Type_Indicator#Reliability

 

[Jibrail Almuhajir]

Why do you believe it's nonsense?

Because it doesn't tell you anything you don't already know.

I disagree, but you described it as 'nonsense'.  Your reply doesn't match your sentiments.  And calling Human Resources 'cults' demonstrates a lack of understanding of what HR does.  It's also just plain weird.  

 

[Jibrail Almuhajir]

If someone brings up their score in conversation, I normally seek to end the conversation.

Why does it bother you so much?  Why do you believe it's nonsense?

When someone dismisses the MB as nonsense, I usually dismiss them as an idiot.  Like the KAI, it is a useful tool, and I have seen what happens when it is ignored. But like any tool, it cannot be used exclusively and works best when it is part of a battery of tests along with personal observation.  BTW - I scored an INTJ on the test administered by my company.  Knowing this, and some of the other things that I learned during testing, really helped me with my job.

I was thinking the same things re: using the MBTI as a helpful tool.  I was also aware of many companies using it which is why I was interested in why Nicholas dismisses it.  I'm still waiting for his reply, and I'd also like to add a question:  Nicholas, are you in Human Resources or a Psychologist?

No legitimate psychologist uses a MB. Companies like to do this sorta thing cause they get sold on it by those who hawk their wares cause it seems to boost morale a bit, much like some motivational speakers (revival tent preacher), "team building" BS, etc.

Of course every so many years they change the test so people can get the narcissistic joy of taking some tool that has zero help in diagnosing much of anything especially anything that might actually point toward psychological problems.

MB
Enneagram
Strength Finder
etc.

Tell us about yourself in some straight forward fashion and will give you some jargon about how to talk more about yourself.

E/INT/FP.

People over score on the N/P according to the very documentation which started this whole mess would suggest exists in the world.

Know thyself in an hour or less.

Kind criticism of it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers-Briggs_Type_Indicator#Validity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers-Briggs_Type_Indicator#Reliability

Friend, what I really wish you would concentrate on is things you actually know about.  I know Psychologists (both PhD.s and Psych.D.s) who administer the MB.  I'm inpressed that you can find a Wiki article so quickly, but less impressed with your actual knowledge.  For example, are you now the arbiter of what is and isn't a 'legitimate' Psychologist?  Seems like you just like to hear yourself talk.  I'm done with you.

 

[orthonorm]

If someone brings up their score in conversation, I normally seek to end the conversation.

Why does it bother you so much?  Why do you believe it's nonsense?

When someone dismisses the MB as nonsense, I usually dismiss them as an idiot.  Like the KAI, it is a useful tool, and I have seen what happens when it is ignored. But like any tool, it cannot be used exclusively and works best when it is part of a battery of tests along with personal observation.  BTW - I scored an INTJ on the test administered by my company.  Knowing this, and some of the other things that I learned during testing, really helped me with my job.

I was thinking the same things re: using the MBTI as a helpful tool.  I was also aware of many companies using it which is why I was interested in why Nicholas dismisses it.  I'm still waiting for his reply, and I'd also like to add a question:  Nicholas, are you in Human Resources or a Psychologist?

No legitimate psychologist uses a MB. Companies like to do this sorta thing cause they get sold on it by those who hawk their wares cause it seems to boost morale a bit, much like some motivational speakers (revival tent preacher), "team building" BS, etc.

Of course every so many years they change the test so people can get the narcissistic joy of taking some tool that has zero help in diagnosing much of anything especially anything that might actually point toward psychological problems.

MB
Enneagram
Strength Finder
etc.

Tell us about yourself in some straight forward fashion and will give you some jargon about how to talk more about yourself.

E/INT/FP.

People over score on the N/P according to the very documentation which started this whole mess would suggest exists in the world.

Know thyself in an hour or less.

Kind criticism of it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers-Briggs_Type_Indicator#Validity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers-Briggs_Type_Indicator#Reliability

Friend, what I really wish you would concentrate on is things you actually know about.  I know Psychologists (both PhD.s and Psych.D.s) who administer the MB.  I'm inpressed that you can find a Wiki article so quickly, but less impressed with your actual knowledge.  For example, are you now the arbiter of what is and isn't a 'legitimate' Psychologist?  Seems like you just like to hear yourself talk.

Yes I am.

If they are giving an MB, they are a quack, unless it is for a laugh, hopefully among friends and not at their clients expense.

 

[orthonorm]

I choose wikipedia due to its credibility and that fact it is sources it claims well in that article. The criticism (the fact there needs to be some is sad) is easily found.

Enjoy your fortune cookie.

The fact you buy into this is weird.

As useful as getting your palm read by a decent cold / warm reader. Actually, less, that reader if not a charlatan might actually give you something useful for your time.

/finished