Head of Orthodox Church of Czech Lands and Slovakia Visits Uzhhorod

Orest

OC.Net Guru
Joined
Jun 14, 2007
Messages
1,561
Reaction score
0
Points
36
02-04-2012
http://risu.org.ua/en/index/all_news/culture/theology/47576/

Head of Orthodox Church of Czech Lands and Slovakia Visits Uzhhorod
 

ialmisry

Strategos
Joined
Aug 17, 2007
Messages
41,794
Reaction score
0
Points
36
Location
Chicago
Interesting.  Maybe Zakarpattia can get its autonomy, promised but never delivered.
 

Orest

OC.Net Guru
Joined
Jun 14, 2007
Messages
1,561
Reaction score
0
Points
36
ialmisry said:
Interesting.  Maybe Zakarpattia can get its autonomy, promised but never delivered.
Sorry I don't see the connection with this story.  Please enlighten me.
Archbishop Christopher (Pulets) of Prague would not have any role in the granting of autonomy to the Orthodox Church in Zakarpatia.
 

podkarpatska

Merarches
Joined
Oct 24, 2009
Messages
9,732
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Northeast United States
Website
www.acrod.org
Orest said:
ialmisry said:
Interesting.  Maybe Zakarpattia can get its autonomy, promised but never delivered.
Sorry I don't see the connection with this story.  Please enlighten me.
Archbishop Christopher (Pulets) of Prague would not have any role in the granting of autonomy to the Orthodox Church in Zakarpatia.
Isa can correct me if I am in error, but I think he was not necessarily referring to religious autonomy but rather political autonomy. A subject which if unchecked can really roll out of control mighty fast......The comments on RISU.org following the article sort of give one a flavor of what might come from starting that discussion.
 

ialmisry

Strategos
Joined
Aug 17, 2007
Messages
41,794
Reaction score
0
Points
36
Location
Chicago
podkarpatska said:
Orest said:
ialmisry said:
Interesting.  Maybe Zakarpattia can get its autonomy, promised but never delivered.
Sorry I don't see the connection with this story.  Please enlighten me.
Archbishop Christopher (Pulets) of Prague would not have any role in the granting of autonomy to the Orthodox Church in Zakarpatia.
Isa can correct me if I am in error, but I think he was not necessarily referring to religious autonomy but rather political autonomy. A subject which if unchecked can really roll out of control mighty fast......The comments on RISU.org following the article sort of give one a flavor of what might come from starting that discussion.
The interesting thing was that Moscow, the autocephalous head, was not involved directly in the chain autocephalous Met. Christophor-autonomous Met. Volodymyr-Dean of the Seminary in Zakarpattia. Met. Christophor can certainly support the granting of autonomy to the Orthodox Church of Zakarpattia, which remains staunchly Russophile (mostly to keep the Ukrainians at bay): the UOC-KP/UAOC barely has any presence, and that of the Vatican is outmatched by the Orthodox, something rare in Western Ukraine.
 

podkarpatska

Merarches
Joined
Oct 24, 2009
Messages
9,732
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Northeast United States
Website
www.acrod.org
ialmisry said:
podkarpatska said:
Orest said:
ialmisry said:
Interesting.  Maybe Zakarpattia can get its autonomy, promised but never delivered.
Sorry I don't see the connection with this story.  Please enlighten me.
Archbishop Christopher (Pulets) of Prague would not have any role in the granting of autonomy to the Orthodox Church in Zakarpatia.
Isa can correct me if I am in error, but I think he was not necessarily referring to religious autonomy but rather political autonomy. A subject which if unchecked can really roll out of control mighty fast......The comments on RISU.org following the article sort of give one a flavor of what might come from starting that discussion.
The interesting thing was that Moscow, the autocephalous head, was not involved directly in the chain autocephalous Met. Christophor-autonomous Met. Volodymyr-Dean of the Seminary in Zakarpattia. Met. Christophor can certainly support the granting of autonomy to the Orthodox Church of Zakarpattia, which remains staunchly Russophile (mostly to keep the Ukrainians at bay): the UOC-KP/UAOC barely has any presence, and that of the Vatican is outmatched by the Orthodox, something rare in Western Ukraine.
It is an interesting 'safe island' that the Orthodox migrated to in Zakarpattia as supporters of the UOP-MP. When Fr. Dymytry Sydor (pastor of the largest church in the region and political leader of the Rusyn national faction in Zakarpatia) was in the states for an extended tour about ten years ago he was just building the Holy Cross Cathedral in Uzhorod - with neither the blessing nor financial support of the Bishop governing that region. He spent some time with my father and several of the parishioners from the region during the early winter that year. He explained that they had a 'practical' relationship and understanding with the UOC-MP Bishop  to use Father's words.

In other words, the Slovak-Rusyn orthodox of Transcarpathia would be given breathing room from the advances of the Ukrainianizing factions in exchange for loyalty to Met. Volodomyr and the UOC-MP. This seems to be holding true in the counties close to the Slovak border from information brought back to the states by relatives (my brother in law visited relatives outside of Medzilaborce, Slovakia who lived on the Ukrainian side of the border and others who were Fr. Dymytry's parishioners) and other visitors. The Carpatho-Russian prostopenije remains in use and the services are distinct from the practices of the UOC or the MP per se. Although the Orthodox and the Greek Catholics of Muchacevo hardly get along even to this day, they seem to quietly practice the old adage about having common adversaries and making strange bedfellows. A confusing and 'Byzantine' (in the truest sense of the meaning of the word) mess. I have a lot of respect for both Fr. Dymytry and the Greek Catholic Bishop of Muchachevo, Milan Sasik (He is part Slovak) who have striven against strong currents to preserve the 'old' ways of their peoples.
 

Orest

OC.Net Guru
Joined
Jun 14, 2007
Messages
1,561
Reaction score
0
Points
36
ialmisry said:
podkarpatska said:
Orest said:
ialmisry said:
Interesting.  Maybe Zakarpattia can get its autonomy, promised but never delivered.
Sorry I don't see the connection with this story.  Please enlighten me.
Archbishop Christopher (Pulets) of Prague would not have any role in the granting of autonomy to the Orthodox Church in Zakarpatia.
Isa can correct me if I am in error, but I think he was not necessarily referring to religious autonomy but rather political autonomy. A subject which if unchecked can really roll out of control mighty fast......The comments on RISU.org following the article sort of give one a flavor of what might come from starting that discussion.
The interesting thing was that Moscow, the autocephalous head, was not involved directly in the chain autocephalous Met. Christophor-autonomous Met. Volodymyr-Dean of the Seminary in Zakarpattia. Met. Christophor can certainly support the granting of autonomy to the Orthodox Church of Zakarpattia, which remains staunchly Russophile (mostly to keep the Ukrainians at bay): the UOC-KP/UAOC barely has any presence, and that of the Vatican is outmatched by the Orthodox, something rare in Western Ukraine.
But the rank came from the EP not Moscow; although the MP was involved in the past.  There is nothing wrong with the Metropolitan of Kyiv (UOC-MP) inviting Archbishop Christopher (Pulets) of Prague to visit a seminary.

By the way I have been looking for a religious census or statistics of the Zakarpattia region.  Do you know where I can get recent info.

I have read this on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zakarpattya_oblast:

The largest denomination is the Ruthenian Catholic Church; the oblast's territory forms the church's Eparchy of Mukachevo; with 380,000 faithful, it has a solid majority of the oblast's churchgoers. Other smaller groups include Roman Catholics, Protestants, and Orthodox, which are largely associated with minority groups; Roman Catholics and Protestants tend to be Hungarian or local Ukrainian, while the Eastern Orthodox are usually Romanians, Russians, or Ukrainians from further east.
This article is from 2005:
Kuzio, Taras "The Rusyn Question in Ukraine: sorting out fact from fiction". Canadian Review of Studies in Nationalism, XXXII, 2005
 

ialmisry

Strategos
Joined
Aug 17, 2007
Messages
41,794
Reaction score
0
Points
36
Location
Chicago
podkarpatska said:
ialmisry said:
podkarpatska said:
Orest said:
ialmisry said:
Interesting.  Maybe Zakarpattia can get its autonomy, promised but never delivered.
Sorry I don't see the connection with this story.  Please enlighten me.
Archbishop Christopher (Pulets) of Prague would not have any role in the granting of autonomy to the Orthodox Church in Zakarpatia.
Isa can correct me if I am in error, but I think he was not necessarily referring to religious autonomy but rather political autonomy. A subject which if unchecked can really roll out of control mighty fast......The comments on RISU.org following the article sort of give one a flavor of what might come from starting that discussion.
The interesting thing was that Moscow, the autocephalous head, was not involved directly in the chain autocephalous Met. Christophor-autonomous Met. Volodymyr-Dean of the Seminary in Zakarpattia. Met. Christophor can certainly support the granting of autonomy to the Orthodox Church of Zakarpattia, which remains staunchly Russophile (mostly to keep the Ukrainians at bay): the UOC-KP/UAOC barely has any presence, and that of the Vatican is outmatched by the Orthodox, something rare in Western Ukraine.
It is an interesting 'safe island' that the Orthodox migrated to in Zakarpattia as supporters of the UOP-MP. When Fr. Dymytry Sydor (pastor of the largest church in the region and political leader of the Rusyn national faction in Zakarpatia) was in the states for an extended tour about ten years ago he was just building the Holy Cross Cathedral in Uzhorod - with neither the blessing nor financial support of the Bishop governing that region. He spent some time with my father and several of the parishioners from the region during the early winter that year. He explained that they had a 'practical' relationship and understanding with the UOC-MP Bishop  to use Father's words.

In other words, the Slovak-Rusyn orthodox of Transcarpathia would be given breathing room from the advances of the Ukrainianizing factions in exchange for loyalty to Met. Volodomyr and the UOC-MP. This seems to be holding true in the counties close to the Slovak border from information brought back to the states by relatives (my brother in law visited relatives outside of Medzilaborce, Slovakia who lived on the Ukrainian side of the border and others who were Fr. Dymytry's parishioners) and other visitors. The Carpatho-Russian prostopenije remains in use and the services are distinct from the practices of the UOC or the MP per se. Although the Orthodox and the Greek Catholics of Muchacevo hardly get along even to this day, they seem to quietly practice the old adage about having common adversaries and making strange bedfellows. A confusing and 'Byzantine' (in the truest sense of the meaning of the word) mess. I have a lot of respect for both Fr. Dymytry and the Greek Catholic Bishop of Muchachevo, Milan Sasik (He is part Slovak) who have striven against strong currents to preserve the 'old' ways of their peoples.
Yes.  When confronted with two dangers, choose the one at the greatest distance. :laugh:
 

podkarpatska

Merarches
Joined
Oct 24, 2009
Messages
9,732
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Northeast United States
Website
www.acrod.org
ialmisry said:
podkarpatska said:
ialmisry said:
podkarpatska said:
Orest said:
ialmisry said:
Interesting.  Maybe Zakarpattia can get its autonomy, promised but never delivered.
Sorry I don't see the connection with this story.  Please enlighten me.
Archbishop Christopher (Pulets) of Prague would not have any role in the granting of autonomy to the Orthodox Church in Zakarpatia.
Isa can correct me if I am in error, but I think he was not necessarily referring to religious autonomy but rather political autonomy. A subject which if unchecked can really roll out of control mighty fast......The comments on RISU.org following the article sort of give one a flavor of what might come from starting that discussion.
The interesting thing was that Moscow, the autocephalous head, was not involved directly in the chain autocephalous Met. Christophor-autonomous Met. Volodymyr-Dean of the Seminary in Zakarpattia. Met. Christophor can certainly support the granting of autonomy to the Orthodox Church of Zakarpattia, which remains staunchly Russophile (mostly to keep the Ukrainians at bay): the UOC-KP/UAOC barely has any presence, and that of the Vatican is outmatched by the Orthodox, something rare in Western Ukraine.
It is an interesting 'safe island' that the Orthodox migrated to in Zakarpattia as supporters of the UOP-MP. When Fr. Dymytry Sydor (pastor of the largest church in the region and political leader of the Rusyn national faction in Zakarpatia) was in the states for an extended tour about ten years ago he was just building the Holy Cross Cathedral in Uzhorod - with neither the blessing nor financial support of the Bishop governing that region. He spent some time with my father and several of the parishioners from the region during the early winter that year. He explained that they had a 'practical' relationship and understanding with the UOC-MP Bishop  to use Father's words.

In other words, the Slovak-Rusyn orthodox of Transcarpathia would be given breathing room from the advances of the Ukrainianizing factions in exchange for loyalty to Met. Volodomyr and the UOC-MP. This seems to be holding true in the counties close to the Slovak border from information brought back to the states by relatives (my brother in law visited relatives outside of Medzilaborce, Slovakia who lived on the Ukrainian side of the border and others who were Fr. Dymytry's parishioners) and other visitors. The Carpatho-Russian prostopenije remains in use and the services are distinct from the practices of the UOC or the MP per se. Although the Orthodox and the Greek Catholics of Muchacevo hardly get along even to this day, they seem to quietly practice the old adage about having common adversaries and making strange bedfellows. A confusing and 'Byzantine' (in the truest sense of the meaning of the word) mess. I have a lot of respect for both Fr. Dymytry and the Greek Catholic Bishop of Muchachevo, Milan Sasik (He is part Slovak) who have striven against strong currents to preserve the 'old' ways of their peoples.
Yes.  When confronted with two dangers, choose the one at the greatest distance. :laugh:
I see that you have met your fair share of Rusyns - both BCC and Orthodox over the years!  ;) ;)
 

ialmisry

Strategos
Joined
Aug 17, 2007
Messages
41,794
Reaction score
0
Points
36
Location
Chicago
Orest said:
But the rank came from the EP not Moscow; although the MP was invovled in the past.
No, the rank came from Moscow for all three.  In the case of CLS, the EP was just catching up (after 47 years, and the Estonian incident interjected a little reality), it doesn't recognize Kiev's autonomy (there was something a while back about the EP refusing some communique from Met. Volodymyr, as it was not "through proper channels."  I don't recall what was the substance of Met. Volodymyr's message, but it was not anything earthshaking), and it has nothing to do with the seminary.  Though I don't know why where the rank of Met. Christofor coming from has any relevance.

Orest said:
There is nothing wrong with the Metropolitan of Kyiv (Uoc-MP) inviting chbishop Christopher (Pulets) of Prague to visit a seminary.
Didn't say that there was.
Orest said:
By the way I have been looking for a religious census or statistics of the Zakarpattia region.  Do you know where I can get the info.

I have read this on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zakarpattya_oblast:

The largest denomination is the Ruthenian Catholic Church; the oblast's territory forms the church's Eparchy of Mukachevo; with 380,000 faithful, it has a solid majority of the oblast's churchgoers. Other smaller groups include Roman Catholics, Protestants, and Orthodox, which are largely associated wThis article does not have any statistics:
ith minority groups; Roman Catholics and Protestants tend to be Hungarian or local Ukrainian, while the Eastern Orthodox are usually Romanians, Russians, or Ukrainians from further east.
This article is from 2005:
Kuzio, Taras "The Rusyn Question in Ukraine: sorting out fact from fiction". Canadian Review of Studies in Nationalism, XXXII, 2005
I only have the parish numbers that RISU has:
http://risu.org.ua/en/index/resourses/statistics/ukr-reg2004
and the things the UOC/Muchakev and Muchakev-(Vat.) puts out.
 

IreneOlinyk

High Elder
Joined
Sep 28, 2009
Messages
883
Reaction score
0
Points
0
I only have the parish numbers that RISU has:
http://risu.org.ua/en/index/resourses/statistics/ukr-reg2004
and the things the UOC/Muchakev and Muchakev-(Vat.) puts out.

« Last Edit: Today at 04:53:55 PM by ialmisry » 
But those figures are from Jan. 2004, over 8 years ago.  Too much has happened since then.  Plus, the figures are only for the number of church buildings.  We cannot tell how many members a parish has.  For example in one village there could be one church with only 25 people in it and another church in the same village with 1,000 people as members.
 

ialmisry

Strategos
Joined
Aug 17, 2007
Messages
41,794
Reaction score
0
Points
36
Location
Chicago
IreneOlinyk said:
I only have the parish numbers that RISU has:
http://risu.org.ua/en/index/resourses/statistics/ukr-reg2004
and the things the UOC/Muchakev and Muchakev-(Vat.) puts out.

« Last Edit: Today at 04:53:55 PM by ialmisry » 
But those figures are from Jan. 2004, over 8 years ago.  Too much has happened since then.
 
Like what?
IreneOlinyk said:
Plus, the figures are only for the number of church buildings.  We cannot tell how many members a parish has.  For example in one village there could be one church with only 25 people in it and another church in the same village with 1,000 people as members.
I don't get the impression (especially with the lastest on the Pochayiv Lavra) that the dust over possession of Churches has settled, and so it would seem that the reason-an indication of local ecclesiastical loyalty and strenght-remains.
 

Orest

OC.Net Guru
Joined
Jun 14, 2007
Messages
1,561
Reaction score
0
Points
36
ialmisry said:
IreneOlinyk said:
I only have the parish numbers that RISU has:
http://risu.org.ua/en/index/resourses/statistics/ukr-reg2004
and the things the UOC/Muchakev and Muchakev-(Vat.) puts out.

« Last Edit: Today at 04:53:55 PM by ialmisry » 
But those figures are from Jan. 2004, over 8 years ago.  Too much has happened since then.
 
Like what?
IreneOlinyk said:
Plus, the figures are only for the number of church buildings.  We cannot tell how many members a parish has.  For example in one village there could be one church with only 25 people in it and another church in the same village with 1,000 people as members.
I don't get the impression (especially with the lastest on the Pochayiv Lavra) that the dust over possession of Churches has settled, and so it would seem that the reason-an indication of local ecclesiastical loyalty and strenght-remains.
8 year old figures are not accurate for 2012.  You said you had access to the vaitcan figures: can you supply them.  The Widipedia article cites the Greek Catholics as the majority.

The UOC-KP for 2010/2011 claims:
40 parishes

1 monastery

44 archpriests

42 priests

Cathedral: Uzhhorod: 12 Apostles

http://www.cerkva.info/uk/knygy/history.html

Your 2008 source has: UOC KP 18 / 2
 

podkarpatska

Merarches
Joined
Oct 24, 2009
Messages
9,732
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Northeast United States
Website
www.acrod.org
From anecdotal sources, it would seem that the Muchachevo Eparchy of the Greek Catholics has the upper hand. If you follow the youtube channel of the Eparchy, logostvuzhgorod, (http://www.youtube.com/user/logostvuzhgorod?feature=g-all-u ), one can see evidence of a vibrant Church which has preserved its distinct historical identity notwithstanding great cultural and political pressures during the course of the 20th century. This is not to diminish the work and presence of the Orthodox, but merely to state what appears to be the reality on the ground.
 

ialmisry

Strategos
Joined
Aug 17, 2007
Messages
41,794
Reaction score
0
Points
36
Location
Chicago
Orest said:
ialmisry said:
IreneOlinyk said:
I only have the parish numbers that RISU has:
http://risu.org.ua/en/index/resourses/statistics/ukr-reg2004
and the things the UOC/Muchakev and Muchakev-(Vat.) puts out.

« Last Edit: Today at 04:53:55 PM by ialmisry »  
But those figures are from Jan. 2004, over 8 years ago.  Too much has happened since then.
Like what?
IreneOlinyk said:
Plus, the figures are only for the number of church buildings.  We cannot tell how many members a parish has.  For example in one village there could be one church with only 25 people in it and another church in the same village with 1,000 people as members.
I don't get the impression (especially with the lastest on the Pochayiv Lavra) that the dust over possession of Churches has settled, and so it would seem that the reason-an indication of local ecclesiastical loyalty and strenght-remains.
8 year old figures are not accurate for 2012.  You said you had access to the vaitcan figures: can you supply them.  The Widipedia article cites the Greek Catholics as the majority.

The UOC-KP for 2010/2011 claims:
40 parishes

1 monastery

44 archpriests

42 priests

Cathedral: Uzhhorod: 12 Apostles

http://www.cerkva.info/uk/knygy/history.html

Your 2008 source has: UOC KP 18 / 2
For 1990, 2000, 2005, 2009, 2010, the Vatican's official stats for its Ukrainians and Ruthenians:
http://www.cnewa.us/source-images/Roberson-eastcath-statistics/eastcatholic-stat10.pdf

It has no figures for the Orthodox, and since the total population of Karpattia was about 1,240,000
http://ukrainetrek.com/zakarpattia-oblast
that leaves 860,000 unaccounted for, more than twice the numbers claimed for the Vatican's eparchy of Mukachevo.  The RISA gives 244 registered, 10 unregistered in 2004 for the Vatican.  The RISU show list the Ruthenian sui juris Mukachevo eparchy separately, but it seems to toe the UGCC's party line and lump Mukachevo in the latter.  It has, for 2011, 3,646 registered, 1 unregistered for the UGCC for the whole of Ukraine.  That is up from 3328/12 in 2004.

Even if the Eparchy got all 307 of the increase recorded for all of Ukraine, that would give it 661.  If we thought that the UOC did not grow, it would be outnumbered only by 87, and the Vatican would have the upperhand only by 59 over all the Orthodox (58, if you count the Old Believers).  That is, if we take as a given that the Orthodox did not increase.

The UOC had 11,952 registered, 91 unregistered in 2011 (up from 10,310/74 in 2004), the "KP" 4,371 registered, 30 unregistered in 2011 (up from 3,352/43 in 2004), and the "UAOC" 1,190 registered, 3 unregistered in 2011 (up from 1,154/2 in 2004 )

So no indication that the UGCC is gaining on the Orthodox, nor that the UOC has lost its place.  Btw, the Vatican figures show 5,159,633 for the UGCC (excluding Mukachevo, which numbered 320,000 according to its calculation), falling in 5 years to 4,268,577 (Mukachevo remaining at 320,000), approximately the time that the figures it gives broken down by oblasts, and the five years since then showing only an increase of 82,158, while according an increase of 60,000 to Mukachevo, i.e. 73% of the increase of the Vatican's eastern following in the whole of the rest of Ukraine.  Zakarpattia has nowhere near 73% of the total population of Ukraine, in either general terms nor terms of churchgoers.  So the wikipedia's statement "The largest denomination is the Ruthenian Catholic Church; the oblast's territory forms the church's Eparchy of Mukachevo; with 380,000 faithful, it has a solid majority of the oblast's churchgoers" is a little problematic, as is the statement "the Eastern Orthodox are usually Romanians, Russians, or Ukrainians from further east."  There were plenty of Orthodox, the fruit of St. Alexis Kobaliuk's labors among others, in Transcarpathia before Stalin annexed it to Ukraine.  In fact, their numbers were drew the Orthodox Church of the Czech Lands and Slovakia from WRO (to which St. Gorazd had been consecrated as bishop of Moravia and Silesia) back into the Eastern Rite first planted by SS. Cyril and Methodius in Moravia.  They had shown their Russophile tendencies under the Habsburgs, and were persecuted for them.  There is no need to import "Ukrainians from further East" to have an Orthodox Church in the oblast (except if one wanted to insist on a Ukrainian, rather than Ruthenian, one).

Since they all show an increase in religious organizations around 10%, it does not seem that the relative strengths in numbers have changed all that much.  And the fact that the UOC has organized the oblast into two dioceses (Mukachevo and Khust), as opposed to the Vatican's one and the "KP"'s one, would seem to indicate that it is holding its own.  Of course, its job isn't done until it is 100% of the population confess Orthodoxy, and struggle in it, but then that's not any different from the rest of us, whether in Moscow, Constantinople, Bucharest, Athens, Rome, Paris, London, Washington or Chicago.
 

ialmisry

Strategos
Joined
Aug 17, 2007
Messages
41,794
Reaction score
0
Points
36
Location
Chicago
podkarpatska said:
From anecdotal sources, it would seem that the Muchachevo Eparchy of the Greek Catholics has the upper hand. If you follow the youtube channel of the Eparchy, logostvuzhgorod, (http://www.youtube.com/user/logostvuzhgorod?feature=g-all-u ), one can see evidence of a vibrant Church which has preserved its distinct historical identity notwithstanding great cultural and political pressures during the course of the 20th century. This is not to diminish the work and presence of the Orthodox, but merely to state what appears to be the reality on the ground.
I don't know about anecdotal evidence: most of those in the region I know from the other side of the border, where they preferred to worship on the lawn than go back into the church and submit back to the Vatican, when the Czechoslovak seized properties.  Would logostvuzhgorod show evidence of a vibrant Orthodox Church in the region?  I've dealt with too many of the followers of the Vatican who would play up the slightest evidence of its flock in the former Soviet block, and belittle the most obvious signs of life among the Orthodox (yes, catechesis is in order, but mass baptisms are not nothing, especially when such things would be lauded in the Czech republic, if they happened) to take that at face value.  Especially when I've been to Western Europe.

Btw, given their problems with the UGCC, I have far, far less problems with the Ruthenian Eparchy sui juris of Mukachevo, beyond its immediate submission to the Vatican, and its denial of the existence of the Orthodox Ruthenians.
 

ialmisry

Strategos
Joined
Aug 17, 2007
Messages
41,794
Reaction score
0
Points
36
Location
Chicago
I forgot the maps:

Its deaneries are here, on an interactive map of sorts:
http://www.m-eparchy.org.ua/blagochinnya/blagochinnya-mukachivskoyi-pravoslavnoyi-eparhiyi.html

No such deanary map
 

podkarpatska

Merarches
Joined
Oct 24, 2009
Messages
9,732
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Northeast United States
Website
www.acrod.org
ialmisry said:
podkarpatska said:
From anecdotal sources, it would seem that the Muchachevo Eparchy of the Greek Catholics has the upper hand. If you follow the youtube channel of the Eparchy, logostvuzhgorod, (http://www.youtube.com/user/logostvuzhgorod?feature=g-all-u ), one can see evidence of a vibrant Church which has preserved its distinct historical identity notwithstanding great cultural and political pressures during the course of the 20th century. This is not to diminish the work and presence of the Orthodox, but merely to state what appears to be the reality on the ground.
I don't know about anecdotal evidence: most of those in the region I know from the other side of the border, where they preferred to worship on the lawn than go back into the church and submit back to the Vatican, when the Czechoslovak seized properties.  Would logostvuzhgorod show evidence of a vibrant Orthodox Church in the region?  I've dealt with too many of the followers of the Vatican who would play up the slightest evidence of its flock in the former Soviet block, and belittle the most obvious signs of life among the Orthodox (yes, catechesis is in order, but mass baptisms are not nothing, especially when such things would be lauded in the Czech republic, if they happened) to take that at face value.  Especially when I've been to Western Europe.

Btw, given their problems with the UGCC, I have far, far less problems with the Ruthenian Eparchy sui juris of Mukachevo, beyond its immediate submission to the Vatican, and its denial of the existence of the Orthodox Ruthenians.
I am not defending the EC's, just trying to be accurate regarding them. Outside of Ladimirova, Slovakia and its surroundings, most OCA and ACROD faithful with family there have more EC relatives than Orthodox. I have met Archbishop Jan of the Orthodox diocese of Presov on several of his visits to the states and he would concur that the Orthodox are in the minority on the Slovak side of the border.

Several months back the MP posted a beautiful link to Orthodox churches in Zakarpatia and there are a number of independent videos posted from time to time. But on neither the Slovak nor the Ukrainian side of the border have the Orthodox utilized the internet as effectively as have the EC's.  At least we American cousins at ACROD and the UOC-USA have first class websites with many multimedia links and we outshine our American EC counterparts by far in that regard!
 

ialmisry

Strategos
Joined
Aug 17, 2007
Messages
41,794
Reaction score
0
Points
36
Location
Chicago
podkarpatska said:
ialmisry said:
podkarpatska said:
From anecdotal sources, it would seem that the Muchachevo Eparchy of the Greek Catholics has the upper hand. If you follow the youtube channel of the Eparchy, logostvuzhgorod, (http://www.youtube.com/user/logostvuzhgorod?feature=g-all-u ), one can see evidence of a vibrant Church which has preserved its distinct historical identity notwithstanding great cultural and political pressures during the course of the 20th century. This is not to diminish the work and presence of the Orthodox, but merely to state what appears to be the reality on the ground.
I don't know about anecdotal evidence: most of those in the region I know from the other side of the border, where they preferred to worship on the lawn than go back into the church and submit back to the Vatican, when the Czechoslovak seized properties.  Would logostvuzhgorod show evidence of a vibrant Orthodox Church in the region?  I've dealt with too many of the followers of the Vatican who would play up the slightest evidence of its flock in the former Soviet block, and belittle the most obvious signs of life among the Orthodox (yes, catechesis is in order, but mass baptisms are not nothing, especially when such things would be lauded in the Czech republic, if they happened) to take that at face value.  Especially when I've been to Western Europe.

Btw, given their problems with the UGCC, I have far, far less problems with the Ruthenian Eparchy sui juris of Mukachevo, beyond its immediate submission to the Vatican, and its denial of the existence of the Orthodox Ruthenians.
I am not defending the EC's, just trying to be accurate regarding them. Outside of Ladimirova, Slovakia and its surroundings, most OCA and ACROD faithful with family there have more EC relatives than Orthodox. I have met Archbishop Jan of the Orthodox diocese of Presov on several of his visits to the states and he would concur that the Orthodox are in the minority on the Slovak side of the border.
I would too.  Most of the Russophiles ended up in Transcarpathia, for a variety of reasons, and those who followed the Vatican remained in Slovakia, for a variety of reasons, including those that led to the rise of the Greek-Catholic Church in Slovakia.

podkarpatska said:
Several months back the MP posted a beautiful link to Orthodox churches in Zakarpatia and there are a number of independent videos posted from time to time. But on neither the Slovak nor the Ukrainian side of the border have the Orthodox utilized the internet as effectively as have the EC's.  At least we American cousins at ACROD and the UOC-USA have first class websites with many multimedia links and we outshine our American EC counterparts by far in that regard!
I have to recuse myself.
 
Top