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Heresies

Which do you consider to be the most stupid, mind-boggling, bizarre and/or plainly wrong heresy?

  • Arianism

    Votes: 9 33.3%
  • Adoptionism

    Votes: 8 29.6%
  • Apollinarianism

    Votes: 3 11.1%
  • Docetism

    Votes: 6 22.2%
  • Macedonianism

    Votes: 2 7.4%
  • Sabellianism/other modalism

    Votes: 4 14.8%
  • Eutychianism

    Votes: 2 7.4%
  • Monothelitism

    Votes: 2 7.4%
  • Nestorianism

    Votes: 4 14.8%
  • Patripassianism

    Votes: 1 3.7%
  • Donatism

    Votes: 3 11.1%
  • Ebionitism

    Votes: 3 11.1%
  • Antinomianism

    Votes: 3 11.1%
  • Iconoclasm

    Votes: 7 25.9%
  • Marcionism

    Votes: 6 22.2%
  • Montanism

    Votes: 2 7.4%
  • Restorationism

    Votes: 13 48.1%
  • Pelagianism

    Votes: 2 7.4%
  • Memorialism

    Votes: 2 7.4%
  • Barlaamism

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Monoenergism

    Votes: 2 7.4%
  • Apokatastasis

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Other (please comment)

    Votes: 6 22.2%

  • Total voters
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Fittingly, restorationism is currently ahead.

I forgot to mention -- you may choose up to five heresies.

Again, even though the tone of this post is somewhat mocking, enlightening commentary as to why these heresies are wrong and/or dangerous is most welcome.
 

Rufus

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Antinomianism--defies our very common sense.

Restorationism--defies much more than our very common sense.

Other: Pusillanimism--possibly betrays the greatest lack of faith of any historical heresy. (This is the belief that the Holy Spirit has ceased operating in the Church, against which St. Symeon the New fought.)
 

Zenovia

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Rufus said:
Antinomianism--defies our very common sense.

Restorationism--defies much more than our very common sense.

Other: Pusillanimism--possibly betrays the greatest lack of faith of any historical heresy. (This is the belief that the Holy Spirit has ceased operating in the Church, against which St. Symeon the New fought.)
Uhhh!  Would this include that the Holy Spirit has ceased to exist in some churches, because if does then I'm a heretic.  :eek:
 

OrthoNoob

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I picked Iconoclasm, Marcionism, Restorationism, and Other. The "Other" is sola scriptura.
 
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88Devin12 said:
no Ecumenism or Ethnophyletism?
I decided against including ecumenism in the list as its meaning is somewhat nebulous and controversial.

Ethnophyletism might make a good addition to the list. It is certainly maddening and frustrating in its refusal to die.
 
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Looks like Arianism and iconoclasm have caught up to restorationism.

I must confess I am surprised: Arianism and iconoclasm, while spiritually dangerous, seem to me to be very attractive and maybe even reasonable.
 

Orthodox11

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The thing with many heresies is that they at first often appear quite logical and intuitive, which is precisely why so many are lead astray by them. Only on closer inspection do the flaws and inconsistencies become apparent.
 

Maria

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The "Name Worshipping" heresy condemned by the EP in 1913 is still among us.

We can see this heresy in some protestant sects who claim, "There is Power in the Name."

Then there are the Messianic Jews (who are often not even Jews by birth) who omit the vowel in G-d. It gets to be a little much as they are so easily offended when we do not omit those vowels in the Divine Names.
 

Maria

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Here is the information about the Name-Worshipping Heresy:

The epistle of Ecumenical Patriarch Germanos V that was published on April 5, 1913 condemns this heresy.


 

88Devin12

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Maria said:
Here is the information about the Name-Worshipping Heresy:

The epistle of Ecumenical Patriarch Germanos V that was published on April 5, 1913 condemns this heresy.
His letter is extremely confusing and vague, what the heck is he talking about?

Epistle of Ecumenical Patriarch Germanos V
http://orthodoxmetropolisportland.org/photios_epistle_germanos_v.html

"disseminated by Russian monastics regarding the name of "Jesus", as being that very same Jesus and God Himself, which name in a manner of speaking, is hypostatically identified with Him."

"we then unanimously condemned and denounced in the Holy Spirit, as blasphemous and heretical, the above-mentioned novel teaching concerning the name "Jesus" as being supposedly that self-same Jesus and God, whose very essence is contained in His name."

" and continue to hold to this incoherent teaching; that the name "Jesus" is of itself that very God, we then say that they should be considered as heretics and rebels against Ecclesiastical discipline"

What?
 

OrthoNoob

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akimori makoto said:
Looks like Arianism and iconoclasm have caught up to restorationism.

I must confess I am surprised: Arianism and iconoclasm, while spiritually dangerous, seem to me to be very attractive and maybe even reasonable.
John 1 kind of puts the kibosh on Arianism. As for iconoclasm, I grew up iconoclast. Then I went to an Orthodox church. Made iconoclasm look idiotic, and worse, hideous.
 

88Devin12

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Also, is there some official or semi-official definition or condemnation of restorationism?
 

Maria

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88Devin12 said:
Maria said:
Here is the information about the Name-Worshipping Heresy:

The epistle of Ecumenical Patriarch Germanos V that was published on April 5, 1913 condemns this heresy.
His letter is extremely confusing and vague, what the heck is he talking about?

Epistle of Ecumenical Patriarch Germanos V
http://orthodoxmetropolisportland.org/photios_epistle_germanos_v.html

"disseminated by Russian monastics regarding the name of "Jesus", as being that very same Jesus and God Himself, which name in a manner of speaking, is hypostatically identified with Him."

"we then unanimously condemned and denounced in the Holy Spirit, as blasphemous and heretical, the above-mentioned novel teaching concerning the name "Jesus" as being supposedly that self-same Jesus and God, whose very essence is contained in His name."

" and continue to hold to this incoherent teaching; that the name "Jesus" is of itself that very God, we then say that they should be considered as heretics and rebels against Ecclesiastical discipline"

What?
Yes, this is why this heresy is so insidious.

The Name Worshipping heretics claim that the name of Jesus is Jesus, that God's Divine essence is present in that name.

Yes, it is wild to believe this way, but there was a whole boat load of Russian Athonite monks who had become contaminated with this strange belief. Yes, they were scrupulously and sincerely devout, but they were sincerely wrong.

If God Himself is contained in His Name, then we could tape record our divine services and just listen all day, or say the Jesus Prayer in lieu of going to church.

So, those who believe in the Name Worshipping heresy will take all papers and mail that comes to their doorsteps, read them carefully, cut out all words like "God," "Jesus," "Christ," and "Holy Spirit," carefully and lovingly gather these little pieces of paper, and then burn them and place the ashes under a bush. It borders on the scrupulous and sounds like OCD. If they believe that these words are God Himself, why are they burning Him? It just does not make sense.
 

88Devin12

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Maria said:
88Devin12 said:
Maria said:
Here is the information about the Name-Worshipping Heresy:

The epistle of Ecumenical Patriarch Germanos V that was published on April 5, 1913 condemns this heresy.
His letter is extremely confusing and vague, what the heck is he talking about?

Epistle of Ecumenical Patriarch Germanos V
http://orthodoxmetropolisportland.org/photios_epistle_germanos_v.html

"disseminated by Russian monastics regarding the name of "Jesus", as being that very same Jesus and God Himself, which name in a manner of speaking, is hypostatically identified with Him."

"we then unanimously condemned and denounced in the Holy Spirit, as blasphemous and heretical, the above-mentioned novel teaching concerning the name "Jesus" as being supposedly that self-same Jesus and God, whose very essence is contained in His name."

" and continue to hold to this incoherent teaching; that the name "Jesus" is of itself that very God, we then say that they should be considered as heretics and rebels against Ecclesiastical discipline"

What?
Yes, this is why this heresy is so insidious.

The heretics claim that the name of Jesus is Jesus.
So, those who believe in the Name Worshipping heresy will take all papers and mail that comes to their doorsteps, read them carefully, cut out all words like "God," "Jesus," "Christ," and "Holy Spirit," carefully and lovingly gather these little pieces of paper, and then burn them and place the ashes under a bush. It borders on the scrupulous and sounds like OCD. If they believe that these words are God Himself, why are they burning Him? It just does not make sense.
So they say that the pre-incarnate name of Jesus was also Jesus? I think it's reasonable to say the name of Jesus (who is both man and God) is Jesus, but that name was bestowed upon him when he became incarnate. Though it obviously isn't the name of the Trinity (IE like YHWH, etc...)
 
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88Devin12 said:
Maria said:
88Devin12 said:
Maria said:
Here is the information about the Name-Worshipping Heresy:

The epistle of Ecumenical Patriarch Germanos V that was published on April 5, 1913 condemns this heresy.
His letter is extremely confusing and vague, what the heck is he talking about?

Epistle of Ecumenical Patriarch Germanos V
http://orthodoxmetropolisportland.org/photios_epistle_germanos_v.html

"disseminated by Russian monastics regarding the name of "Jesus", as being that very same Jesus and God Himself, which name in a manner of speaking, is hypostatically identified with Him."

"we then unanimously condemned and denounced in the Holy Spirit, as blasphemous and heretical, the above-mentioned novel teaching concerning the name "Jesus" as being supposedly that self-same Jesus and God, whose very essence is contained in His name."

" and continue to hold to this incoherent teaching; that the name "Jesus" is of itself that very God, we then say that they should be considered as heretics and rebels against Ecclesiastical discipline"

What?
Yes, this is why this heresy is so insidious.

The heretics claim that the name of Jesus is Jesus.
So, those who believe in the Name Worshipping heresy will take all papers and mail that comes to their doorsteps, read them carefully, cut out all words like "God," "Jesus," "Christ," and "Holy Spirit," carefully and lovingly gather these little pieces of paper, and then burn them and place the ashes under a bush. It borders on the scrupulous and sounds like OCD. If they believe that these words are God Himself, why are they burning Him? It just does not make sense.
So they say that the pre-incarnate name of Jesus was also Jesus? I think it's reasonable to say the name of Jesus (who is both man and God) is Jesus, but that name was bestowed upon him when he became incarnate. Though it obviously isn't the name of the Trinity (IE like YHWH, etc...)
No, what is being condemned is the proposition that the very word Jesus contains the essence of the god-man Jesus Christ born in history to the virgin Mary by the operation of the Holy Spirit.

Or so I understand.
 
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88Devin12 said:
Also, is there some official or semi-official definition or condemnation of restorationism?
Isn't every ecumenical council, every prayer for the local bishop, every reading of the dyptichs, every commemoration of a saint, a condemnation of restorationism?
 

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akimori makoto said:
88Devin12 said:
Maria said:
88Devin12 said:
Maria said:
Here is the information about the Name-Worshipping Heresy:

The epistle of Ecumenical Patriarch Germanos V that was published on April 5, 1913 condemns this heresy.
His letter is extremely confusing and vague, what the heck is he talking about?

Epistle of Ecumenical Patriarch Germanos V
http://orthodoxmetropolisportland.org/photios_epistle_germanos_v.html

"disseminated by Russian monastics regarding the name of "Jesus", as being that very same Jesus and God Himself, which name in a manner of speaking, is hypostatically identified with Him."

"we then unanimously condemned and denounced in the Holy Spirit, as blasphemous and heretical, the above-mentioned novel teaching concerning the name "Jesus" as being supposedly that self-same Jesus and God, whose very essence is contained in His name."

" and continue to hold to this incoherent teaching; that the name "Jesus" is of itself that very God, we then say that they should be considered as heretics and rebels against Ecclesiastical discipline"

What?
Yes, this is why this heresy is so insidious.

The heretics claim that the name of Jesus is Jesus.
So, those who believe in the Name Worshipping heresy will take all papers and mail that comes to their doorsteps, read them carefully, cut out all words like "God," "Jesus," "Christ," and "Holy Spirit," carefully and lovingly gather these little pieces of paper, and then burn them and place the ashes under a bush. It borders on the scrupulous and sounds like OCD. If they believe that these words are God Himself, why are they burning Him? It just does not make sense.
So they say that the pre-incarnate name of Jesus was also Jesus? I think it's reasonable to say the name of Jesus (who is both man and God) is Jesus, but that name was bestowed upon him when he became incarnate. Though it obviously isn't the name of the Trinity (IE like YHWH, etc...)
No, what is being condemned is the proposition that the very word Jesus contains the essence of the god-man Jesus Christ born in history to the virgin Mary by the operation of the Holy Spirit.

Or so I understand.
Yes, you have understood it correctly.
 
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Cognomen said:
akimori makoto said:
Looks like Arianism and iconoclasm have caught up to restorationism.

I must confess I am surprised: Arianism and iconoclasm, while spiritually dangerous, seem to me to be very attractive and maybe even reasonable.
Completely agreed. I also find that odd.
We seem to mostly agree that restorationism is pretty stupid, though.
 

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akimori makoto said:
88Devin12 said:
Also, is there some official or semi-official definition or condemnation of restorationism?
Isn't every ecumenical council, every prayer for the local bishop, every reading of the dyptichs, every commemoration of a saint, a condemnation of restorationism?

What is restorationism?
 

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Maria said:
akimori makoto said:
88Devin12 said:
Also, is there some official or semi-official definition or condemnation of restorationism?
Isn't every ecumenical council, every prayer for the local bishop, every reading of the dyptichs, every commemoration of a saint, a condemnation of restorationism?

What is restorationism?
The doctrine that the "real" Church disappeared from the Earth for some period of time until it was "restored," usually by a latter-day "prophet."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QnBWL_d-5A
 

88Devin12

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OrthoNoob said:
Maria said:
akimori makoto said:
88Devin12 said:
Also, is there some official or semi-official definition or condemnation of restorationism?
Isn't every ecumenical council, every prayer for the local bishop, every reading of the dyptichs, every commemoration of a saint, a condemnation of restorationism?

What is restorationism?
The doctrine that the "real" Church disappeared from the Earth for some period of time until it was "restored," usually by a latter-day "prophet."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QnBWL_d-5A
Ah okay, I guess I misunderstood what it was.
 

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Isn't patripassianism another form of modalism? I only ask because I picked sabellianism/other modalism as I find the idea ludicrous and then noticed that patripassianism was separate for some reason.

James
 

NicholasMyra

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Docetism is a big one, because it is really a category that includes many heresies: Apollinarianism, Nestorianism, Monophysitism/Eutychianism, Aphthartodocetism, Monoenergism and Monothelitism, Iconoclasm, and to an extent Marcionism.
 

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I chose restorationism as I believe so many have been led astray by such antics. I can see how it started innocently enough by people ignorant of the continuation of the Apostolic Church. They thought that Rome was wrong through and through and since Rome was the only church they knew of then the ancient Church must have become apostate and they therefore needed to restore said Church. (just a brief summary and generalization)

But, as previously stated, through restorationism we get things like Mormonism; Jehovah Witness, various cults, and various Protestant denominations all stem from this as well. I believe that restorationism is the most probable cause from keeping many people away from Orthodoxy as they just don't think that there is the ancient Church any more, or that their denomination is the continuation of the ancient Church. I can't tell you how many times people have looked at me weird when I tell them that the Orthodox Church is the original Church; I know this is due to restorationism.

I also would have probably chosen Sola Scriptura as well since ISTM that many restorationists love to cling to their own private interpretation of the Scriptures, and then the whole thing where they want to throw out the condemnation of following the tradition of men, not realizing that there is such a thing as Holy Tradition to be found outside of the Scriptures (and of course their way of interpreting Scriptures which is based off of their man made tradition).

I really don't know enough about any of the others listed to be able to make informed decisions about them, and I'm not about to wikipedia these things just to be a late night scholar.
 
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jmbejdl said:
Isn't patripassianism another form of modalism? I only ask because I picked sabellianism/other modalism as I find the idea ludicrous and then noticed that patripassianism was separate for some reason.

James
I thought so, too, but wikipedia had them listed separately. Not quite sure if I should have trusted it so much, hah.
 

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Mormonism should be on the list. It has to be near the top of the "Most Ridiculous" list.
 

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soderquj said:
primuspilus said:
Mormonism. It is the silliest thing I've seen...next to Scientology.....

PP
You have No Idea ::) how true that is.
And Mormonism has apparently borrowed things from Islam:
Polygamy
Buried tablets/black stones
Angels enlightening the founders
 

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My question is; what constitutes a heresy?  Wouldn't it be any teaching that draws a person away from God, rather than instilling in them the Holy Spirit and uniting them with God?  The Church taught us that the only way we can unite with God, is by accepting Jesus as the Son of God and then in it's wisdom, the Church established a path for us to follow.  

Now I don't know the details of the older heresies, but since they were fought and established as heresies by the Saints of the Church, it really doesn't matter if I know them or not.  In my mind  they have to be heresies.  As for some like 'Restorationism', are they really heresies?  To me  it's an institutionalized form of  'elitism' by many Protestants who believe their way of worship is the correct way.  Because they can't get out of themselves, (as most of us can't), they want to find a foundation for their way of worship, other than the traditions their founders threw out.    If they have retained the basic principles of Christianity, would it really be a heresy or is it just plain 'stupidity' on their part.  (Forgive my sarcasm, I can't help myself). ;D  

As for me, the greatest heresy that exists, and especially today is 'relativism', since it alters the basis and truths of Christianity simply because those 'truths' are not relative to our present world.  Yes God is Love and He is Understanding and He does forgive, but that doesn't mean we can change those established 'truths'  and what we should aspire to become so that we can unite with Him in His Kingdom.

As for Jehovah's Witness, it is really a Judaic religion, so  can it be considered a Christian heresy?  Maybe a Jewish one, who knows?  Islam started out as a Christian heresy, and then altered itself completely so now it's a completely new faith like Mormonism.  Notice they both mention Jesus Christ, but then again, even satan acknowledges Jesus' authority.  ;)

 
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