How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco

DeniseDenise

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and thus declareth Orthonorm.  Let us heed the font of all wisdom.
 

orthonorm

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DeniseDenise said:
Despite everyone discussing habit vs non habit etc...

Honestly James, considering you have an uncle with cancer, if I were in your shoes I would steer very clear of as many of the cancer causing things as is possible.

Even if there is a trigger, the 'likelyhood' of aquiring a cancer is genetic.  'Not all people have these dire consequences', which is true, but the odds increase if you have the genetic pre-disposition.


I personally just wouldn't take the risk over something that is not -doing- anything for my life in a positive way.
Stress reduction is arguably the best thing you can do. So maybe nicotine solves all stress for you. Who knows. What I do know, is that stress is the number killer. If not the only killer. So pick your stressors carefully. God knows I haven't.

Some smoke.
Some post their ideas about icons on the internet with grandiosity and self-righteousness to get their kick.

Not sure which is worse.
 

orthonorm

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DeniseDenise said:
and thus declareth Orthonorm.  Let us heed the font of all wisdom.
You are a late comer and don't know this subject has been done to death. Not of all wisdom, but more than what flows around here usually.

So go back through the various tobacco threads and get caught up and come back.
 

DeniseDenise

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orthonorm said:
DeniseDenise said:
and thus declareth Orthonorm.  Let us heed the font of all wisdom.
You are a late comer and don't know this subject has been done to death. Not of all wisdom, but more than what flows around here usually.

So go back through the various tobacco threads and get caught up and come back.

By that logic, no one should ever start a thread on any topic that has ever been discussed. 

How's that working out?

Forums and message boards have repeat threads.....people come and go...and the same topics come up.  If you have an issue with it...take it up with your boy....he started a new thread on it....when -clearly- its been discussed to death. 


 

PeterTheAleut

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orthonorm said:
DeniseDenise said:
and thus declareth Orthonorm.  Let us heed the font of all wisdom.
You are a late comer and don't know this subject has been done to death. Not of all wisdom, but more than what flows around here usually.
Usually what flows around here is your conceit and arrogance.
 

orthonorm

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PeterTheAleut said:
orthonorm said:
DeniseDenise said:
and thus declareth Orthonorm.  Let us heed the font of all wisdom.
You are a late comer and don't know this subject has been done to death. Not of all wisdom, but more than what flows around here usually.
Usually what flows around here is your conceit and arrogance.
More interesting is your jealousy of my beloved status here. PtA, one day, a young man will take a shine to you. You just gotta be a bit more open and honest about your life.
 

kelly

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DeniseDenise said:
Despite everyone discussing habit vs non habit etc...

Honestly James, considering you have an uncle with cancer, if I were in your shoes I would steer very clear of as many of the cancer causing things as is possible.

Even if there is a trigger, the 'likelyhood' of aquiring a cancer is genetic.  'Not all people have these dire consequences', which is true, but the odds increase if you have the genetic pre-disposition.


I personally just wouldn't take the risk over something that is not -doing- anything for my life in a positive way.
A very immature boy is trying to be manly. If he wants to chew chaw and hock into a spittoon, I say let him. I don't know why anyone bothers giving James advice anymore, he never listens.
 

DeniseDenise

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kelly said:
DeniseDenise said:
Despite everyone discussing habit vs non habit etc...

Honestly James, considering you have an uncle with cancer, if I were in your shoes I would steer very clear of as many of the cancer causing things as is possible.

Even if there is a trigger, the 'likelyhood' of aquiring a cancer is genetic.  'Not all people have these dire consequences', which is true, but the odds increase if you have the genetic pre-disposition.


I personally just wouldn't take the risk over something that is not -doing- anything for my life in a positive way.
A very immature boy is trying to be manly. If he wants to chew chaw and hock into a spittoon, I say let him. I don't know why anyone bothers giving James advice anymore, he never listens.

A very good point...just so long as the spittoon isn't a clear orange juice bottle and he isn't the one next to me in the airplane. ::)

(yes...I have had that happen....grossest 6 hours of my life)
 

kelly

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We used to have a neighbor who would walk around our yard, shirtless, spitting his chaw  - it killed our grass!
 

LBK

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kelly said:
DeniseDenise said:
Despite everyone discussing habit vs non habit etc...

Honestly James, considering you have an uncle with cancer, if I were in your shoes I would steer very clear of as many of the cancer causing things as is possible.

Even if there is a trigger, the 'likelyhood' of aquiring a cancer is genetic.  'Not all people have these dire consequences', which is true, but the odds increase if you have the genetic pre-disposition.


I personally just wouldn't take the risk over something that is not -doing- anything for my life in a positive way.

A very immature boy is trying to be manly. If he wants to chew chaw and hock into a spittoon, I say let him. I don't know why anyone bothers giving James advice anymore, he never listens.
Kelly, THANK YOU!!  :-*
 

LBK

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orthonorm said:
PeterTheAleut said:
orthonorm said:
DeniseDenise said:
and thus declareth Orthonorm.  Let us heed the font of all wisdom.
You are a late comer and don't know this subject has been done to death. Not of all wisdom, but more than what flows around here usually.
Usually what flows around here is your conceit and arrogance.
More interesting is your jealousy of my beloved status here. PtA, one day, a young man will take a shine to you. You just gotta be a bit more open and honest about your life.
Yet again, orthonorm's hubris and puffery is on display. Grow up, orthonorm, and stop dragging down impressionable youngsters. You are not the center of the universe.
 

PeterTheAleut

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orthonorm said:
PeterTheAleut said:
orthonorm said:
DeniseDenise said:
and thus declareth Orthonorm.  Let us heed the font of all wisdom.
You are a late comer and don't know this subject has been done to death. Not of all wisdom, but more than what flows around here usually.
Usually what flows around here is your conceit and arrogance.
More interesting is your jealousy of my beloved status here.
You give me nothing of which to be jealous, orthonorm.

orthonorm said:
PtA, one day, a young man will take a shine to you. You just gotta be a bit more open and honest about your life.
I don't want to be a mentor to someone I don't know.
 

JamesR

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orthonorm said:
hecma925 said:
Alpo said:
orthonorm said:
I am not sure how you can't be moderate with snus.
Using several dosages of snus while simultaneously smoking a cigarrette seems rather unmoderate to me. I've heard of someone who did that. Not sure if it was an urban legend but wouldn't be anyhow suprised if the story was true.
I knew a few guys in college who did that, but with longcut dip.  That's some serious nicotine overkill.  They just needed a nicotine patch for the trifecta.
That's folks with a high nicotine tolerance, which is set genetically primarily it seems. So some people can moderately use nicotine. I can't. It will stir up my need for nicotine. With dip / smoking, people will dose to get their fix. Which is why cigarettes with greater nicotine levels will hook you sooner, if you are hooked they are better for you, since you will smoke less to get your fix.

My brother tried using short cut dip to stop smoking and wound up doing both.

But yeah, if I were to smoke regular cigarettes, I could go a couple packs a day easily. With heavier cigarettes, I got by on fewer than 8 a day. Sometimes less. At which point, the dangers of smoking become difficult to determine save for those with underlying heart issue for whom any repeated increase in heart rate outside moderate physical activity is likely to be a bad thing.

My mother died like PtA's father did. But it wasn't smoking that killed her at 39. Based on my own problem and genetic makeup and other biometrics she was going to have a heart attack early in life. Maybe smoking reduce that life by some years. But it wasn't like she was going to reach 90 or even 60 if she hadn't.

Uncured tobacco is associated with higher risks of stuff like pancreatic cancer, since you swallow the juice rather than spitting it out, but such cancer is already so rare that the increase is, well, no big deal. Again, some have advocated its use as risk reduction much like the patch (which is not without risk, it still creates cardiac stimulus which isn't so great for some).

Being a shrill and uninformed nay sayer is going to do nothing to stop a young person from using tobacco. It that worked, none would use it. Make it illegal, cost prohibitive, or take my route, show nuance and tolerance. Helps abate that knee jerk reaction. And if you quite before 30, really it becomes difficult to determine harm. Not what people want to say, but a lot of people can pick up and put down smoking. Just like heavy drinking. Others can't. I would look at family history rather medical facts.

So if JamesR wants to play with tobacco and is worried about health concerns, I would suggest avoiding it, but if he wants real data, I would look toward those who use tobacco in my near family. If they are strung out and always quitting till they die, I would avoid it. But I also wouldn't make it such an all or nothing dire situation. If you believe this is a one time decision, when you might want to quit, you might really believe the nonsense, and think it is pointless to try.

I've seen that pattern in AA where they condition people in meeting over and over about not being able to have a single drink or two without utter and complete relapse. This speaks against nearly all literature on the subject and given the fact that most in AA are not alcoholics anymore but people badgered by their spouses and the courts to stop irresponsible drinking, they might have a drink and then *bam* they are off to the races, cause that is what that drinks means.

It doesn't.

So James, I would suggest not picking up tobacco but if you do, there are a variety of way to use which have varying risks and benefits.

More so, I think JamesR is mature enough to digest all this and make the appropriate decision.
Why thank you Jason.

Well, looking at my family history in regards to tobacco usage and my own health right now, taking into account the potential risks, I think that I'll merely use tobacco in moderation--perhaps a tin can every few weeks to a month, sometimes more, sometimes less. If I start seeing any negative signs, I'll cut back or quit. That being said though, I do have some addictive tendencies that I think I should be very cautious about when delving into a potentially addictive product.

My questions have been answered.
 

LBK

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kelly said:
We used to have a neighbor who would walk around our yard, shirtless, spitting his chaw  - it killed our grass!
Was it soft and fluffy lawn, or the tough, runner-based stuff like buffalo or kikuyu? If the latter .... ewwww.
 

Maria

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JamesR said:
orthonorm said:
hecma925 said:
Alpo said:
orthonorm said:
I am not sure how you can't be moderate with snus.
Using several dosages of snus while simultaneously smoking a cigarrette seems rather unmoderate to me. I've heard of someone who did that. Not sure if it was an urban legend but wouldn't be anyhow suprised if the story was true.
I knew a few guys in college who did that, but with longcut dip.  That's some serious nicotine overkill.  They just needed a nicotine patch for the trifecta.
That's folks with a high nicotine tolerance, which is set genetically primarily it seems. So some people can moderately use nicotine. I can't. It will stir up my need for nicotine. With dip / smoking, people will dose to get their fix. Which is why cigarettes with greater nicotine levels will hook you sooner, if you are hooked they are better for you, since you will smoke less to get your fix.

My brother tried using short cut dip to stop smoking and wound up doing both.

But yeah, if I were to smoke regular cigarettes, I could go a couple packs a day easily. With heavier cigarettes, I got by on fewer than 8 a day. Sometimes less. At which point, the dangers of smoking become difficult to determine save for those with underlying heart issue for whom any repeated increase in heart rate outside moderate physical activity is likely to be a bad thing.

My mother died like PtA's father did. But it wasn't smoking that killed her at 39. Based on my own problem and genetic makeup and other biometrics she was going to have a heart attack early in life. Maybe smoking reduce that life by some years. But it wasn't like she was going to reach 90 or even 60 if she hadn't.

Uncured tobacco is associated with higher risks of stuff like pancreatic cancer, since you swallow the juice rather than spitting it out, but such cancer is already so rare that the increase is, well, no big deal. Again, some have advocated its use as risk reduction much like the patch (which is not without risk, it still creates cardiac stimulus which isn't so great for some).

Being a shrill and uninformed nay sayer is going to do nothing to stop a young person from using tobacco. It that worked, none would use it. Make it illegal, cost prohibitive, or take my route, show nuance and tolerance. Helps abate that knee jerk reaction. And if you quite before 30, really it becomes difficult to determine harm. Not what people want to say, but a lot of people can pick up and put down smoking. Just like heavy drinking. Others can't. I would look at family history rather medical facts.

So if JamesR wants to play with tobacco and is worried about health concerns, I would suggest avoiding it, but if he wants real data, I would look toward those who use tobacco in my near family. If they are strung out and always quitting till they die, I would avoid it. But I also wouldn't make it such an all or nothing dire situation. If you believe this is a one time decision, when you might want to quit, you might really believe the nonsense, and think it is pointless to try.

I've seen that pattern in AA where they condition people in meeting over and over about not being able to have a single drink or two without utter and complete relapse. This speaks against nearly all literature on the subject and given the fact that most in AA are not alcoholics anymore but people badgered by their spouses and the courts to stop irresponsible drinking, they might have a drink and then *bam* they are off to the races, cause that is what that drinks means.

It doesn't.

So James, I would suggest not picking up tobacco but if you do, there are a variety of way to use which have varying risks and benefits.

More so, I think JamesR is mature enough to digest all this and make the appropriate decision.
Why thank you Jason.

Well, looking at my family history in regards to tobacco usage and my own health right now, taking into account the potential risks, I think that I'll merely use tobacco in moderation--perhaps a tin can every few weeks to a month, sometimes more, sometimes less. If I start seeing any negative signs, I'll cut back or quit. That being said though, I do have some addictive tendencies that I think I should be very cautious about when delving into a potentially addictive product.

My questions have been answered.
I hope you got your college essay written.

:angel:
 

hecma925

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DeniseDenise said:
kelly said:
DeniseDenise said:
Despite everyone discussing habit vs non habit etc...

Honestly James, considering you have an uncle with cancer, if I were in your shoes I would steer very clear of as many of the cancer causing things as is possible.

Even if there is a trigger, the 'likelyhood' of aquiring a cancer is genetic.  'Not all people have these dire consequences', which is true, but the odds increase if you have the genetic pre-disposition.


I personally just wouldn't take the risk over something that is not -doing- anything for my life in a positive way.
A very immature boy is trying to be manly. If he wants to chew chaw and hock into a spittoon, I say let him. I don't know why anyone bothers giving James advice anymore, he never listens.

A very good point...just so long as the spittoon isn't a clear orange juice bottle and he isn't the one next to me in the airplane. ::)

(yes...I have had that happen....grossest 6 hours of my life)
Ugh, not even the common decency of a Coke can?
 

DeniseDenise

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hecma925 said:
DeniseDenise said:
kelly said:
DeniseDenise said:
Despite everyone discussing habit vs non habit etc...

Honestly James, considering you have an uncle with cancer, if I were in your shoes I would steer very clear of as many of the cancer causing things as is possible.

Even if there is a trigger, the 'likelyhood' of aquiring a cancer is genetic.  'Not all people have these dire consequences', which is true, but the odds increase if you have the genetic pre-disposition.


I personally just wouldn't take the risk over something that is not -doing- anything for my life in a positive way.
A very immature boy is trying to be manly. If he wants to chew chaw and hock into a spittoon, I say let him. I don't know why anyone bothers giving James advice anymore, he never listens.

A very good point...just so long as the spittoon isn't a clear orange juice bottle and he isn't the one next to me in the airplane. ::)

(yes...I have had that happen....grossest 6 hours of my life)
Ugh, not even the common decency of a Coke can?
No. I spent six hours trying to face into the aisle and pretend blindness.

It was nauseating. In the literal sense

 

Kerdy

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I'm enjoying a pipe as I type.  Occasionally I spend the extra money on a cigar.  I haven't dipped in over 20 years.
 

Asteriktos

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ZealousZeal said:
You're really on to something here. Tattoo to keep you from masturbating, chew to keep you from fornicating... it's a whole new world where you outsource your crosses. You're like a Christian entrepreneur or something.
This does not work. I have had a cross on my arm for 4-5 years, and almost all my upper arm covered in crosses for 4-5 months, and have observed no change whatsoever. JamesR should have let me publish results before starting his own experiment. Well, what can you do?
 

orthonorm

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Justin Kissel said:
ZealousZeal said:
You're really on to something here. Tattoo to keep you from masturbating, chew to keep you from fornicating... it's a whole new world where you outsource your crosses. You're like a Christian entrepreneur or something.
This does not work. I have had a cross on my arm for 4-5 years, and almost all my upper arm covered in crosses for 4-5 months, and have observed no change whatsoever. JamesR should have let me publish results before starting his own experiment. Well, what can you do?
There is truth to ZZ's words and very well put. Of course what she doesnt understand is that is the very structure of all belief. Believing 24/7 is no fun. It's terribly exhausting.

I just can't beleieve that all these people can't connect to what JamesR writes large and openly here with their own contradictory pious nonsense. Because I can't, I pay someone to write these posts in which I do act as though others do lack such introspection.
 
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