How is your community regarding the COVID-19 pandemics?

[rakovsky]

Well, I'll be honest, I'm really frustrated. Both my husband and the pastor of our church seem to be sold on the whole "this is all a conspiracy to frame Trump" idea.

Trump, for better or worse, is only one factor, because it hit harder in Europe and Asia, and many European countries like Denmark took much harsher measures, whereas others like Sweden took much looser measures. Some cases like Denmark are way overkill on harsh measures since for instance the Swedes who have very loose measures did not get very sick, relative to others like the Italians.

 

[platypus]

After the predicted apocalypse utterly failed to materialize in my community, most people have gone from "Let's publicly shame anyone who even thinks about violating the mandate" to "Beach party with everyone who can still afford the gas to drive there!"

It's been more than two months since there's been flour, rice, or toiler paper on the shelves; and now they're limiting meat sales, but there's still enough food for everyone who still has money to buy it. Unfortunately not everyone does, and the soup kitchen shut down in compliance with the government's orders.

Restaurants and churches are being allowed to reopen on a limited basis, although not all of the restaurants have enough seating to make it economically viable. Essential businesses like liquor stores and tattoo parlors, of course, are operating as usual.

This whole thing has been a very frank reminder to me to "put not your trust in princes, in the sons of men, in whom there is no salvation."

 

[biro]

Eighty thousand people have died.

It was the apocalypse, for them.

 

[WPM]

Would you necessarily be Russian Orthodox?

 

[platypus]

Eighty thousand people have died.

It was the apocalypse, for them.

That's right - and there is a reminder there as well. We know not the day, nor the hour.

Would you necessarily be Russian Orthodox?

I'd be Orthodox, but my odds of becoming Russian remain low.

 

[Mor Ephrem]

Well, I'll be honest, I'm really frustrated. Both my husband and the pastor of our church seem to be sold on the whole "this is all a conspiracy to frame Trump" idea. And I'm seeing *way* too many people in our community doing their best to make anyone who isn't willing to put their life on the line to go out and conduct "business as usual" feel like they're just a little bit stupid.

I find myself biting my tongue. A lot. And quietly building my own personal "quarantine zone" in my She Shed, just in case. 

Interesting.  In my neck of the woods, you get the “just a little bit stupid” treatment if you want to return to something approaching “business as usual” even if it is definitely not business as usual.  It’s sucks either way.

 

[rakovsky]

Eighty thousand people have died.

It was the apocalypse, for them.

Some perspective...

1918 influenza
The 1918 Spanish flu epidemic was the deadliest flu season we know of, infecting about one-third of the world’s population.
Global cases: 500 million
Global deaths: over 50 million (675,000 in the United States); the death rate was around 2 percent
https://www.healthline.com/health-news/how-deadly-is-the-coronavirus-compared-to-past-outbreaks#1918-influenza

Data From Novel Influenza Surveillance Systems Can Complement Traditional Healthcare-Based Systems
August 16, 2018
Influenza causes an estimated 3,000 to 50,000 deaths per year in the U.S.
https://www.infectioncontroltoday.com/epidemiology-surveillance/cdc-reports-h1n1-flu-related-death-toll

US flu still elevated but dropping; deaths as high as 57,000
Apr 19, 2019
Levels of influenza-like illness (ILI) in the United States remain elevated for the 21st consecutive week—the longest season in recent years—but the disease is on the decline, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) said today in its weekly update.

Still, the agency says influenza has caused up to 57,300 deaths and sickened up to 41.3 million people, according to new estimates.
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2019/04/us-flu-still-elevated-dropping-deaths-high-57000

 

[rakovsky]

I'm so sorry.  It's not stupid; this is a such an unknown and complicated situation.  Some kind of caution definitely seems warranted.  As usual, I see the situation and all the diametrically opposed pieces, and think somehow there needs to be a balance...but don't ask me how, lol. 
We kind of have the opposite situation.  We run the full gamut in personal opinions, and we try to leave space for each other.  Apparently the bishops met recently, so I'm hoping to hear some news of at least a little more freedom.

+1

 

[LBK]

Eighty thousand people have died.

It was the apocalypse, for them.

Some perspective...

1918 influenza
The 1918 Spanish flu epidemic was the deadliest flu season we know of, infecting about one-third of the world’s population.
Global cases: 500 million
Global deaths: over 50 million (675,000 in the United States); the death rate was around 2 percent
https://www.healthline.com/health-news/how-deadly-is-the-coronavirus-compared-to-past-outbreaks#1918-influenza

Data From Novel Influenza Surveillance Systems Can Complement Traditional Healthcare-Based Systems
August 16, 2018
Influenza causes an estimated 3,000 to 50,000 deaths per year in the U.S.
https://www.infectioncontroltoday.com/epidemiology-surveillance/cdc-reports-h1n1-flu-related-death-toll

US flu still elevated but dropping; deaths as high as 57,000
Apr 19, 2019
Levels of influenza-like illness (ILI) in the United States remain elevated for the 21st consecutive week—the longest season in recent years—but the disease is on the decline, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) said today in its weekly update.

Still, the agency says influenza has caused up to 57,300 deaths and sickened up to 41.3 million people, according to new estimates.
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2019/04/us-flu-still-elevated-dropping-deaths-high-57000

False comparison. A century ago, there were no intensive care units, no antibiotics to treat secondary infections, and medical science only knew of bacteria and fungi as infectious agents. Viruses weren't "discovered" until a few years later.

 

[rakovsky]

1918 influenza
The 1918 Spanish flu epidemic was the deadliest flu season we know of, infecting about one-third of the world’s population.
Global cases: 500 million
Global deaths: over 50 million (675,000 in the United States); the death rate was around 2 percent
https://www.healthline.com/health-news/how-deadly-is-the-coronavirus-compared-to-past-outbreaks#1918-influenza

Data From Novel Influenza Surveillance Systems Can Complement Traditional Healthcare-Based Systems
August 16, 2018
Influenza causes an estimated 3,000 to 50,000 deaths per year in the U.S.
https://www.infectioncontroltoday.com/epidemiology-surveillance/cdc-reports-h1n1-flu-related-death-toll

US flu still elevated but dropping; deaths as high as 57,000
Apr 19, 2019
Levels of influenza-like illness (ILI) in the United States remain elevated for the 21st consecutive week—the longest season in recent years—but the disease is on the decline, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) said today in its weekly update.

Still, the agency says influenza has caused up to 57,300 deaths and sickened up to 41.3 million people, according to new estimates.
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2019/04/us-flu-still-elevated-dropping-deaths-high-57000

False comparison. A century ago, there were no intensive care units, no antibiotics to treat secondary infections, and medical science only knew of bacteria and fungi as infectious agents.

1918 was a century ago, but 2018 and 2019 were not.

 

[Justin Kolodziej]

"phase 1" reopening starting around here. We'll see how long it lasts.

Can we even do outdoor Liturgy, because that would be allowed? I suspect not. Not that the Metropolitan is going to allow it anytime soon.

Has anyone seen the OCA Diocese of the South reopening rulebook? You gotta be an engineer to understand it, which seems appropriate somehow  ;D

 

[rakovsky]

Can we even do outdoor Liturgy, because that would be allowed?

Archbishop Mark talks about it as an option in his letter.

I have been corresponding with a staffperson for TV-Soyuz, the Russian, Orthodox TV station that I have been watching some livestreams on, and she said that there are churches around Moscow doing this already.

 

[Dominika]

Thanks God, in Poland churches haven't been closed, though for some time we had limtis 5 people, but some parishes, especially Orthodox, were trying to manage it. And since Orthodox Paschal Monday now the limit is 1 person at 15 quadrate metres, so the possibilites are quite big.

We have some phases of bring back various functions and institutions. So, e.g parks and forests are opened and shopping malls (but many companeis have bunkrupted so many shops in these shopping malls are closed anyway), but haidressers no (probably from the next week). Universities and schools are clsoed until the end of academic year, there are some online classes, but they're problematic. The very imporanat matura exams for whole Poland that finish high schools have been postponed from the beginning of May until the middle of June.

Last Sunday tehre were supposed to be presidential elections, but in the end they weren't, there has been a lot of chaos about this.

We have to put masks everywhere except home, but more and more people stop believeing in all this propaganda. Last days there were also some protests in centre of Warsaw.

 

[Justin Kolodziej]

Can we even do outdoor Liturgy, because that would be allowed?

Archbishop Mark talks about it as an option in his letter.

I have been corresponding with a staffperson for TV-Soyuz, the Russian, Orthodox TV station that I have been watching some livestreams on, and she said that there are churches around Moscow doing this already.

OK. Possible but the Metropolitan would have to give the OK anyway, then my parish would have to set up the livestreaming to work outdoors, so I don't think it'll happen before the state lets a few people inside in Phase 2.

 

[Ainnir]

Can we even do outdoor Liturgy, because that would be allowed?

Archbishop Mark talks about it as an option in his letter.

I have been corresponding with a staffperson for TV-Soyuz, the Russian, Orthodox TV station that I have been watching some livestreams on, and she said that there are churches around Moscow doing this already.

OK. Possible but the Metropolitan would have to give the OK anyway, then my parish would have to set up the livestreaming to work outdoors, so I don't think it'll happen before the state lets a few people inside in Phase 2.

As far as I know, the governor never said people couldn't go to church, just to limit it to 10 people, with the natural outworking being that almost all churches started streaming.  Maybe I just missed it, though.  It was our Metropolitan that specifically said clergy only, and that's what ACOB said in their Holy Week announcement, iirc.

 

[Arachne]

Our priest was fitted with a pacemaker just before lockdown, and has been on light duty since. Our Holy Week would have been severely curtailed anyway. Any services during this time are just him, Khouria (who is the main chanter - the only one, on weekdays) and the reader. All of them are quite senior, and no one is keen to put them at risk.

The Antiochian Archdiocese of the UK has no reopening plan as yet. The only instruction from the Metropolitan has been to strictly obey government directives.

 

[Ainnir]

They just cancelled our local Independence Day parade.  I get it, but :'(

 

[hecma925]

They just cancelled our local Independence Day parade.  I get it, but :'(

But it's May.

 

[Ainnir]

They just cancelled our local Independence Day parade.  I get it, but :'(

But it's May.

  Yeah.  I think they're anticipating this still being an issue in 6 weeks, which it will because biology.  It all just kinda sucks.  I'm sure we can still set stuff off in our driveways.  I foresee an increase in brush fires and burn victims this year.

 

[theistgal]

They just cancelled our local Independence Day parade.  I get it, but :'(

Parades and other public events require a lot of advance planning. It's completely understandable why such events are being cancelled, even those that seem like a long time from now.

 

[hecma925]

They just cancelled our local Independence Day parade.  I get it, but :'(

Parades and other public events require a lot of advance planning. It's completely understandable why such events are being cancelled, even those that seem like a long time from now.

That makes sense.

 

[Agabus]

They just cancelled our local Independence Day parade.  I get it, but :'(

Parades and other public events require a lot of advance planning. It's completely understandable why such events are being cancelled, even those that seem like a long time from now.

As one public official told me, there are too many variables to far down the road to commit to some plans.

Our community's biggest event of the year would have been this weekend, and even though we are "open" the organizers have indefinitely postponed it because they feel like sinking the money in at this time would be a significant losing proposition since they would have to limit gate entries and the chances are the participants -- who come from across the country -- would likely not show up in appropriate numbers anyway.

 

[rakovsky]

I don't know how to post this Google COVID graph here:

covid deaths graph - Google Search

 

[Tannhouser]

I don't know how to post this Google COVID graph here:

covid deaths graph - Google Search

Under the graph it reads: Each day shows deaths reported since the previous day.

This is a common, but unfortunate way most/all reporting is done for the death count. It is misleading and causes further hysteria.

For example, there was a day back in August to which the news reported that Florida had over 150 deaths added. Popped those 150 into the previous days count. However, if one read into it, it was basically what that graph said above. 150 deaths were added. In actuality only like 18 had died the previous day. The rest of those were just recordings of covid related deaths going back to March. Yet it was strewn around social media and used as a tool to keep the fear up.

 

[JTLoganville]

Most of the news media only reports cumulative (total) "cases" and total deaths.

Of course those are rising...they will NEVER go down because they are cumulative.

But that hockey stick __/ keeps the stirring the fear.

 

[Arachne]

Over here we have mostly daily trackers. The Guardian's has been running for months. I prefer this one for all the details.

People seem to understand that the surge in cases is partly due to wider testing, so cases that would have gone undiagnosed are now logged. Despite shifting to higher alert levels, the general attitude is rather philosophical. We do our best to help local businesses without endangering the workers. Some of the harder-hit areas are scheduling circuit breaker lockdowns around half-term school break. Nobody likes the idea, but tempers are still fairly even.

 

[Dominika]

In Poland now we have almsot 2nd lockdown. Since two weeks if I'm not mistaken the whole coutnry is in yellow zone and in yellow zone tehre are more restricitons, meanwhile many places (including mine) last Saturday entered red zone and in red zone there are also more restrictions. But evne inre d zoens still primate school works, meanwhiel high schoools and universiteis no (universities the whole semester), many companeis have onliny system since March and until now their workers haven't come back to office (e.g, my mum).
Also in the streets there are more drunk and crazy people. Also I know some people entering more mental and addictions problems.
My father that has some mental problems since this new recitiosn is even more dififuclt to deal with.
But nobody leads agenda how many people die becaose of alcohol, being in cold, suicide etc. last months. And for sure these numbers have increased.
Also, we have almost no medical help, most of the things work just by phone. And evne to get prescitpion for contiuantion someteims we have to wait one week.

 

[Ainnir]

I’d like to see parallel tracking for sure. Supposedly homocide, suicide, and domestic violence cases are all up nationally. I don’t doubt it, but it’s hearsay nonetheless. If nothing else, major routine disruptions would do it, even without the added stress of worrying.

 

[Dominika]

I’d like to see parallel tracking for sure. Supposedly homocide, suicide, and domestic violence cases are all up nationally. I don’t doubt it, but it’s hearsay nonetheless. If nothing else, major routine disruptions would do it, even without the added stress of worrying.

Well, on Monday just when I woke up, even didn't reach toilet, because of my father's behaviour and quarrel, I (in a kind of sense) had leave the flat in pijama and bare foots, just flip flops.
One of my best friends a few days ago was beaten by her mother being totally drunk. She used meat mallet.

Also 3 weeks ago, when I was alone at home, totally drunk man was trying to enter the flat. After some time I called police, but firstly they asked if I have covid and if I'm on quarantine - thanks God, the answer was "no", and can't imagine what it could happen, if it had been "yes". The man meanwhile pissed the area in front of the doors.

 

[Tannhouser]

I’d like to see parallel tracking for sure. Supposedly homocide, suicide, and domestic violence cases are all up nationally. I don’t doubt it, but it’s hearsay nonetheless. If nothing else, major routine disruptions would do it, even without the added stress of worrying.

There are graphs out there which shows non-covid surplus deaths over the mean. These graphs are usually user-generated, but are done so as they're fairly striking and I doubt government would want them broadcasted. At least in the USA there are many unexplained deaths over the mean which covid cannot account for.

 

[hecma925]

I'm sure covid has practically cured influenza.

 

[Opus118]

I'm sure covid has practically cured influenza.

This is true with respect that the institution of social distancing for Covid 19 dramatically curtailed the seasonal duration of influenza infections. There are quite a few papers on this, this is a review with links to some of them:

Social Distancing Measures: Evidence of Interruption of Seasonal Influenza Activity and Early Lessons of the SARS-CoV-2 Pandemic

The unprecedented enactment of social-distancing measures in response to the severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) pandemic—including cit

academic.oup.com

 

[hecma925]

Cardiac arrests are way down too. Must be the mask wearing or something.

 

[Opus118]

I like to think it is due to the higher consumption of red wine during the pandemic.

I do not like to think about the possibility that Covid19 is consuming the population that is more prone for heart attacks.

Is it possible the pandemic increases sexual activity, video game time, sleep, etc., which reduce heart problems?

 

[hecma925]

No, rates for cardiac arrests are down because they go undiagnosed. Maybe a person doesn't go to the emergency room or they do go to the hospital, die, and the death certificate says "Covid-19". That isn't some theory either.

 

[Mor Ephrem]

No, rates for cardiac arrests are down because they go undiagnosed. Maybe a person doesn't go to the emergency room or they do go to the hospital, die, and the death certificate says "Covid-19". That isn't some theory either.

 

[Asteriktos]

What a mess.

 

[hecma925]

Has anyone seen the OCA Diocese of the South reopening rulebook? You gotta be an engineer to understand it, which seems appropriate somehow ;D

I've seen it. Not that hard.