I am Godless

genesisone

Archon
Joined
Aug 20, 2005
Messages
2,906
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
68
Location
Niagara Region, Ontario
JamesR said:
But the fact remains that I still have so many questions.
We all do, JamesR, whether we are sixteen like you, or sixty like me. The questions will change and our faith will be challenged. There will be good days and bad days. I hope you can find someone with whom you can have a face-to-face discussion where you feel as comfortable about expressing yourself as you do here.
 

Quinault

Protokentarchos
Joined
Nov 11, 2007
Messages
4,979
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
42
Location
Seattle, WA
JamesR said:
What comes after anger? I do not know. Where do I go from here? I'm scared of God now that I cursed Him and I feel like if I prayed to Him I would just be lying to Him and to myself because I would not really feel it or care. And unfortunately I committed a great sin by Communing last Sunday in this state because I thought that maybe it would 'motivate me to find righteousness'.
In my case a sort of numb sadness comes after anger. God loves you, even when you don't feel it. Sometimes we just keep repeating the same things over and over to ourselves hoping to believe them. You don't have to feel anything to pray. Repent, pick yourself up and try to stay standing for awhile. I would talk to your godparents and spiritual father about your struggles as soon as you feel you can. Start with just one thing each day; belief that God loves you. Once you can believe that without effort, move to the next thing. Don't try and jump headfirst back into faith. Being present in the liturgy is enough if that is all you can handle.

I would start with simply praying with your prayer rope "Lord I believe, help my unbelief" and leave it at that for awhile.
 

Agabus

Taxiarches
Joined
Apr 10, 2009
Messages
6,324
Reaction score
3
Points
0
JamesR said:
What comes after anger? I do not know. Where do I go from here? I'm scared of God now that I cursed Him and I feel like if I prayed to Him I would just be lying to Him and to myself because I would not really feel it or care. And unfortunately I committed a great sin by Communing last Sunday in this state because I thought that maybe it would 'motivate me to find righteousness'.
James, I can't answer your questions. I'm not that bright.

But you have no need to fear God. The feast he offers is freely given.


1 Then He said: “A certain man had two sons.  12 And the younger of them said to his father, ‘Father, give me the portion of goods that falls to me.’ So he divided to them his livelihood.  13 And not many days after, the younger son gathered all together, journeyed to a far country, and there wasted his possessions with prodigal living.  14 But when he had spent all, there arose a severe famine in that land, and he began to be in want.  15 Then he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country, and he sent him into his fields to feed swine.  16 And he would gladly have filled his stomach with the pods that the swine ate, and no one gave him anything.

17 “But when he came to himself, he said, ‘How many of my father’s hired servants have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger! 18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say to him, “Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you, 19 and I am no longer worthy to be called your son. Make me like one of your hired servants.”’

But when he was still a great way off, his father saw him and had compassion, and ran and fell on his neck and kissed him.  21 And the son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and in your sight, and am no longer worthy to be called your son.’

22 “But the father said to his servants, ‘Bring out the best robe and put it on him, and put a ring on his hand and sandals on his feet. 23 And bring the fatted calf here and kill it, and let us eat and be merry; 24 for this my son was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’ And they began to be merry.
 

Deacon Lance

Protokentarchos
Joined
Oct 26, 2002
Messages
4,187
Reaction score
10
Points
38
Age
48
Location
Washington, PA
JamesR said:
You guys got me. quitmorning's last post really spoke to me. I guess I will at least try to come back to the faith and heal myself. But the fact remains that I still have so many questions. Everyone just keeps telling me how to deal with suffering and while it is all good advice, my scholastic side is still demaning an answer as to why God allows it in the first place. I'm afraid I cannot get myself to follow any of that advice until I know the answer because my entire perception of whp God is is based on what that answer will be.
In my experience, people who have suffered little or nothing and had an easy life generally aren't very good people.  On the otherhand, all the people I know to be of exceptional character have suffered, sometimes horrifically, and grown because of it.
 

HabteSelassie

Archon
Joined
Nov 2, 2010
Messages
3,314
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Los Angeles
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

neon_knights said:
HabteSelassie said:
HE LOVES EVIL TOO!
This is contrary to the Scriptures.
Really? Then explain (a) how Evil continues to exist considering that nothing exists aside from the Will and Power of God and (b) Romans 2?

Don't you see how wonderfully kind, tolerant, and patient God is with you? Does this mean nothing to you? Can't you see that his kindness is intended to turn you from your sin?

I wasn't suggesting on an eternal sense, but evil and suffering in the here and now.  God permits evil humans to exist out of his love for them, and in reality, whether we understand it or not, something similar must be going on between God and the Devil, because one way or the other, we see that God allows and actually sustains even the life of the Devil and his demons..

stay blessed,
habte selassie
 

Orthodox11

Archon
Joined
Nov 10, 2006
Messages
2,994
Reaction score
0
Points
0
JamesR said:
I'm scared of God now that I cursed Him
1 John 4:18
There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.
 

Cavaradossi

Archon
Joined
Jun 23, 2011
Messages
2,034
Reaction score
0
Points
36
Green_Umbrella said:
orthonorm said:
Green_Umbrella said:
orthonorm said:
NightOwl said:
LBK said:
JamesR said:
I was the brightest student in all the classes, my Priest even urged me to come sometimes just because he said that having me in the class would benefit the other teens. Yet even with my knowledge I have turned my back on God. I won't worship the deadbeat father responsible for all the suffering in the world.
Hubris, pure and simple.
Yeah and I think this thread is feeding it. Probably should've left it locked.
I read more hubris from those trying to "help" James than from James himself.

For all their "knowledge" they don't seem too great at helping others. Wonder, if they have even spoken to him.

But hey, we at least found out one of the newer members here can write poverty pr0n.
I write about everyday life experience, not poverty porn. Where I live 25% of the population does not have clean running water. How about where you live?
Yes, you are the Ice Cube of your generation.

Comparing embellishments of the imagined vicissitudes of one life of suffering to another sounds pretty much like the raison d'etre of poverty pr0n.

Take this to private and I'll give you some material to inspire your enterprise.
Go get bent smart guy. You have nothing to teach me.  
It has often been my experience that those who think they have nothing to learn from some situation possess lesser minds which render them incapable of learning in the first place.
 

HabteSelassie

Archon
Joined
Nov 2, 2010
Messages
3,314
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Los Angeles
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Cavaradossi said:
It has often been my experience that those who think they have nothing to learn from some situation possess lesser minds which render them incapable of learning in the first place.
No, Orthonorm was being intentionally rude with his "Ah ha" attempt, and had the brother expressed his frustrations in private they'd be more warranted, but such should not vindicate the absurdity streak that Orthonorm has been on lately ::)

stay blessed,
habte selassie
 

Cavaradossi

Archon
Joined
Jun 23, 2011
Messages
2,034
Reaction score
0
Points
36
HabteSelassie said:
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Cavaradossi said:
It has often been my experience that those who think they have nothing to learn from some situation possess lesser minds which render them incapable of learning in the first place.
No, Orthonorm was being intentionally rude with his "Ah ha" attempt, and had the brother expressed his frustrations in private they'd be more warranted, but such should not vindicate the absurdity streak that Orthonorm has been on lately ::)

stay blessed,
habte selassie
I do not understand your argument. Orthonorm's posting behavior has no relevance to whether my observation is true or not.
 

Green_Umbrella

Sr. Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2012
Messages
188
Reaction score
0
Points
0
orthonorm said:
Green_Umbrella said:
Excuse me ¨vicissitudes¨& ¨raison d'etre¨ Yeah, I am sure you grew up in the lap of poverty. :D   
More poverty pr0n. You don't like the casting. Poor folks can't be educated.
Uh huh. I noticed you did not answer any of my questions. It is a nice view and easy to shoot arrows from an ivory tower no doubt.  ;)
 

Michael36

Jr. Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2011
Messages
50
Reaction score
0
Points
0
JamesR said:
Upon advice from an anonymous friend, I took a break from this forum to get my thoughts together and try to understand who I am. And during that time, I had a revelation that most of you will disapprove of. I am godless. I am tired of adhering to something I do not understand and worshipping a Divine god whom I do not like. So go ahead, Achronos, laugh, you were correct in predicting my path to godlessness.

I would not say that I am necessarily an atheist as in I do not believe in God, but that I do believe in Him but hate him with a burning passion. Perhaps I am even a Luciferanian. When I really look at it, why is the Devil do bad? He is the lightbearer who finally had the nerve to step up to God--the Divine tyrant--and teach us to do the same. God is omnipotent yet He lets us suffer miserably. Lucifer is not omnipotent and therefore cannot stop our suffering, but at least to the very best of his ability he tries to urge us to liberate ourselves from God. He represents true freedom and tolerance.

I hate God. He is nothing but a deadbeat father yet I am supposed to adhere to a religion all about Him. My first thoughts are honestly **** Him. Where was He when I was a scared little kid, where was He when my parents where abusing me or when my mom miscarried or when my father relapsed and I was all alone? Hiding behind His lazy 'free will' cop-out or having His clergy tell us that the world has not been 'fully redeemed' yet and is still 'fallen'? Well why don't the lazy **** take responsibility for the state of His creation and do something to fix it?

The excuse I always hear is the Incarnation. But honestly, what difference does it make? People still suffer, I still had it miserably, we still all die in the end. Likewise, what is it with worshipping God for becoming man and dying? It was not a gift; He owed it to us since we are His fault anyway. Why worship Him for taking responsibility? Hell, I wish I was the one who could have crucified Him--it would be good payback for all the crap He let me go through.

Going even further, this deadbeat father even has the nerve to judge us when He was never there and is the one who created us/allowed us to be born into circumstances with urges and factors that make us sin. And His bat**** crazy adherents do the same. I can't fornicate even though He allowed be to be born with horny animalistic passions, I cannot steal even though He lets people live in poverty and I cannot murder even though He allows me to be born with a temper. There is no such thing as freewill. Period. God is a monster who allows us to be born screwed up and then condemns us for the way we are. It is all His fault.

And look at what this does to His adherents. Parents do all sorts of crazy **** to their kids because of religion--ie circumcise them, Baptise them, fill their heads with silly superstitions and worries, tell them they are worthless compared to this transcendent guy in the sky and teach them to be ashamed of their bodies and pubescent passions. As if that were not enough, they teach them intolerance toward homosexuals and certain types of people and ultimately divide society all because of religion. I hate religion.

Religion says that my mom is a whore for having me outside of marriage because of some dumb 'sacramental' ****. It says that the horribly dysfunctional heterosexual couple is okay yet the successful homosexual relationship of 30 years that my neighbor has is evil in the eyes of God. It tells me to condemn my passions and judge others, adhering to a strict and silly ethical system.

Quite frankly, I am becoming much more postmodern and relativistic in my ethics. I love all kinds of people (except old religious people and conservatives). I am not going to condemn fornication because I came from it nor am I going to judge homosexuality. Who am I to say whether fornicators or homosexuals love each other or not? I am not going to tell people how to live their lives or how to have sex. I am going to love everyone and urge everyone to indulge in their passions.

Satan is really not a bad guy. He advocates total tolerance for everyone and true freedom to do whatever we want and become the best we can be. God just holds me back, I feel like He is an obstacle in my intellectual life and always tries to bind me down to some outdated, intolerant and silly ethical system. Religion ruins everything. I hate it. I hate how old people and Southerners try to bring it into everything. It is jus another stupid and illogical conservative idealogy that senile old people and weak-minded folks adhere to just because it is old.

Ever since childhood I always had people bossing me around and telling me what I can and cannot do, telling me to be grateful and humble. But what is so great about humbleness and humility? These terms are just polite ways of saying to be a weak pushover. I deserve more and for once I am acknowledging it. God owes me. The world owes me. And instead of submitting I am finally going to spoil myself and indulge in all of my passions--as the good Lucifer would advocate. I want money and women. I openly admit it. No need in being ashamed of my passions anymore, I no longer have that divine tyrant binding me down.

God only leads to suffering but indulging in your passions brings happiness. Screw all that crap about money can't buy happiness. Because poverty is no picnic either. Money can make me happy and it is all that I want and have wanted for quite a while now. Since I never had it as a child I think it is about time I spoiled myself to some money and indulgence. I for once feel liberated and free. And I deserve the pleasure to compensate for all the misery God allowed me to endure.

I am tired of being bound by God and His outdated ethics and having to be ashamed of myself and suppress all my passions, ambitions, intellect and potential. For once I can really be a that I can be. I am more intelligent than 90% of people my age and many people older than me, so why adhere to illogical beliefs and hang around God's flock which is generally full of weak minded people and senile old folks? Why suppress my passions any longer? God allowed me to have them.

Satan tells me to pursue my ambitions and be all that I can truly be. He is tolerant towards everyone and urges us to reach our true potential. Do you realize how liberating this is compared to Christianity? Hell, Christianity even makes it harder for me to do good because it preaches intolerance. Without Christianity I can truly accept someone no matter what they may be like or what lifestyle they may live whereas in Christisnity I have to condemn them.

Consider this my religious resignation. I no longer want anything to do with God. I hate Him. And I won't submit to a deadbeat father. I'll do whatever makes me happy and I no longer give a rat's **** about what He thinks. Unless He stops all the suffering in the world and becomes accepting/tolerant of all people, I will have nothing to do with Him.

I have failed you all. I am no longer this great Orthodox kid with all this religious saintly potential that many of you think I have. I am just broken and think that I will find happiness in the dark side. An ex-Orthodox Anakin Skywalker. I imagine I will keep this a secret and still attend my Church, just so that my parents do not discover my godlessness and try to convert me back to Protestantism.

Wish me luck, but don't waste your time and pray. There is no old for me to return back to God's chains.

You are free to rant and rail against God on this forum, (though maybe not on the Faith Issues board, but I'll let this section's moderator decide that). What you are not free to do is lace your rant with obscenities and profanities as you have so done. Therefore, you are receiving this warning to last for the next 40 days. During this time, please find more appropriate ways to express your rage against God on this forum. If you think this action wrong, please appeal it to me via private message.

-PeterTheAleut

This thread was moved to the Religious Topics since you have declared you are not Christian any longer - Michał Kalina.


Hi James,

You'll probably hate me for saying this, but I went through the exact same thing at your age. I believed in God on a good day in a weird agnostic/deist relativistic kind of way, and on my miserable days I was a complete mysotheist. Strangely enough, God was more real to me when I hated Him. I spewed complete vitriol and hate at him for making my life so miserable, that no one understood me, that he wanted me to turn from things that felt good, that I lost good friends, and that I couldn't find a girl who would giver her all to the relationship. I tore my crucifix of my wall, chucked it in my closet, and said, "I WONT WORSHIP YOU UNTIL YOU FIX THIS".

I agree with some of the others in that you were too young to begin this kind of conversion. Being 16 is hell, it's the craziest time of your life. Still, at least you have something to go back to when you're older if you change your mind. Here's my advice for the moment: others have pointed out that you may not have time to "learn the hard way and repent", because you could die today; I however am praying that you do learn this way unless you reconsider your departure. I had to taste hell before I could appreciate heaven. Do this and you will understand why God commands what he does: hang out with the people on the abyss. Hang out with the angry, the sorrowful, the drug addicts, the homeless, the lost children. What you will find in these people is this beautiful brokenness. They're broken and they know it, but they're alive. They don't try to drown thought and emotion in parties and numbing drugs. They ask hard questions, ride the waves of emotion, and live for the beautiful moments they can find. People who said they hated God, but would have given their all to God if they had just realized how worthy of His love they truly were  :'(  Those are the people that taught me that God is here, that He is real, that He loves us, suffers with us in all things (sorrow, anger, heart rending emotional and excruciating physical pain, and even the feeling of divine abandonment), and yet gives us a way out. I am indescribably better having come out of this and found the bridegroom of my soul (still learning to turn my eros to Him. I suffer terribly from Lust, but it's beautiful when that passion is purified) in the pits of Gehenna with an extended hand. He understands, because He is fully human, but He stayed above it all. Learn to love in suffering, my friend.

May the Lord grant you this understanding and empathy,
Mikhael
 

Green_Umbrella

Sr. Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2012
Messages
188
Reaction score
0
Points
0
JamesR said:
I guess I will at least try to come back to the faith and heal myself.
I did pray for you James. I have no anger with you at all. God forgives, thank God. Take any anger and frustration you have and let God help you channel it to something positive. Personal suffering is often the deciding motivator to make something good. e.g. The former drug addict who now counsels and breaks others addiction to drugs. e.g. The former alcoholic who now counsels alcoholics.

Suffering brings wisdom and strength. Everyone can read the warning label on a bottle alcohol but a former alcoholic can explain to you what it really means. I hope you understand what I say. And do not try to heal yourself. A forum is a bad place to discuss your personal religious issues. It is a bad place to discuss religion at all really. Talk to a priest...not a teen.  ::)

Tell him exactly how you feel.  Face to face. Be honest. Hold nothing back. 

 
 

HabteSelassie

Archon
Joined
Nov 2, 2010
Messages
3,314
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Los Angeles
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Cavaradossi said:
HabteSelassie said:
Cavaradossi said:
It has often been my experience that those who think they have nothing to learn from some situation possess lesser minds which render them incapable of learning in the first place.
No, Orthonorm was being intentionally rude with his "Ah ha" attempt, and had the brother expressed his frustrations in private they'd be more warranted, but such should not vindicate the absurdity streak that Orthonorm has been on lately ::)

stay blessed,
habte selassie
I do not understand your argument. Orthonorm's posting behavior has no relevance to whether my observation is true or not.
The only thing to have learned from orthonorm's provocations is that patiences is a virtue and of course the deep moral lesson of 2 Timothy 2:23-25 :D

stay blessed,
habte selassie
 

Apples

Protokentarchos
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Messages
4,360
Reaction score
0
Points
0
I wish some people weren't so full of it.

Saying Lucifer is cool, that you want to murder, that you hate God, these things are pure evil. Quinault is right that eventually we need to stop the coddling. There's something really wrong with these mood swings of James'.
 

Green_Umbrella

Sr. Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2012
Messages
188
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Cavaradossi said:
Green_Umbrella said:
orthonorm said:
Green_Umbrella said:
orthonorm said:
NightOwl said:
LBK said:
JamesR said:
I was the brightest student in all the classes, my Priest even urged me to come sometimes just because he said that having me in the class would benefit the other teens. Yet even with my knowledge I have turned my back on God. I won't worship the deadbeat father responsible for all the suffering in the world.
Hubris, pure and simple.
Yeah and I think this thread is feeding it. Probably should've left it locked.
I read more hubris from those trying to "help" James than from James himself.

For all their "knowledge" they don't seem too great at helping others. Wonder, if they have even spoken to him.

But hey, we at least found out one of the newer members here can write poverty pr0n.
I write about everyday life experience, not poverty porn. Where I live 25% of the population does not have clean running water. How about where you live?
Yes, you are the Ice Cube of your generation.

Comparing embellishments of the imagined vicissitudes of one life of suffering to another sounds pretty much like the raison d'etre of poverty pr0n.

Take this to private and I'll give you some material to inspire your enterprise.
Go get bent smart guy. You have nothing to teach me.  
It has often been my experience that those who think they have nothing to learn from some situation possess lesser minds which render them incapable of learning in the first place.
And it has been my experience if you try to push God upon people they reject him. The harder you push the more they push back. Push hard enough and they will reject him completely.
 

Achronos

Toumarches
Site Supporter
Joined
Oct 31, 2010
Messages
13,265
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
House Of Balloons
William said:
I wish some people weren't so full of it.

Saying Lucifer is cool, that you want to murder, that you hate God, these things are pure evil. Quinault is right that eventually we need to stop the coddling. There's something really wrong with these mood swings of James'.
Sounds like a relationship I was in. One moment I hated her and the next I loved her, depending on the situation of course. I kind of view his "mood swings" as normal TBH, especially when trying to rationalize the things James talks about. But once you have answers that satisfy you or accept things as they are, you get much less angry at God.

There's people out there who love God, and then God makes them suffer somehow and they get angry at Him as to why they are suffering. This stuff happens all the time, the lesson here is to never give up faith in God and trust in His ways. Go read Job again and I really can't fault for James railing at God either.

I've said this before, we have no clue what James is going through on a personal level. To spout a bunch of nonsense and to be critical of him is doing more harm than good. We need to listen and be there for him. Not to lash out at him.
 
Joined
Apr 10, 2011
Messages
3,125
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Sydney, Australia
James, I'm not sure whether this will assist you, but the following words of Father Seraphim (Rose) reminded me of you:

“Atheism, true 'existential' atheism, burning with hatred of a seemingly unjust or unmerciful God, is a spiritual state; it is a real attempt to grapple with the true God […] Nietzsche, in calling himself Antichrist, proved, thereby, his intense hunger for Christ.”
 

HabteSelassie

Archon
Joined
Nov 2, 2010
Messages
3,314
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Los Angeles
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

akimori makoto said:
James, I'm not sure whether this will assist you, but the following words of Father Seraphim (Rose) reminded me of you:

“Atheism, true 'existential' atheism, burning with hatred of a seemingly unjust or unmerciful God, is a spiritual state; it is a real attempt to grapple with the true God […] Nietzsche, in calling himself Antichrist, proved, thereby, his intense hunger for Christ.”
That is why I always love Father Seraphim, I came into Orthodox not necessarily from DTTW, but most definitely as a spiritual nihilist of the same vain.  Now I am just a political nihilist, and a Holy Spiritual idealist :)

stay blessed,
habte selassie
 

Achronos

Toumarches
Site Supporter
Joined
Oct 31, 2010
Messages
13,265
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
House Of Balloons
akimori makoto said:
James, I'm not sure whether this will assist you, but the following words of Father Seraphim (Rose) reminded me of you:

“Atheism, true 'existential' atheism, burning with hatred of a seemingly unjust or unmerciful God, is a spiritual state; it is a real attempt to grapple with the true God […] Nietzsche, in calling himself Antichrist, proved, thereby, his intense hunger for Christ.”
That was the exact quote I was referencing to a few posts up. Thanks, akimori.
 

Rufus

OC.Net Guru
Joined
Mar 4, 2010
Messages
1,337
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
30
Location
Massachusetts
A thought: James is going through a very common phenomenon: adolescent spiritual crisis.

Is it really good for him that he's getting all this attention from us? I don't want to sound mean, but maybe he really just has to deal with it by himself (like most of us who were in his shoes did).
 

Achronos

Toumarches
Site Supporter
Joined
Oct 31, 2010
Messages
13,265
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
House Of Balloons
Rufus said:
A thought: James is going through a very common phenomenon: adolescent spiritual crisis.

Is it really good for him that he's getting all this attention from us? I don't want to sound mean, but maybe he really just has to deal with it by himself (like most of us who were in his shoes did).
That assumes he is seeking attention. I'll let Schultz be the one to correct me. ;)
 

Rufus

OC.Net Guru
Joined
Mar 4, 2010
Messages
1,337
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
30
Location
Massachusetts
Achronos said:
Rufus said:
A thought: James is going through a very common phenomenon: adolescent spiritual crisis.

Is it really good for him that he's getting all this attention from us? I don't want to sound mean, but maybe he really just has to deal with it by himself (like most of us who were in his shoes did).
That assumes he is seeking attention. I'll let Schultz be the one to correct me. ;)
I don't know if he's seeking attention. But he sure is getting it.
 

HabteSelassie

Archon
Joined
Nov 2, 2010
Messages
3,314
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Los Angeles
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

The Honorable Bob Marley said it best when asked about the evolution of his faith.  He said, "Yeah, I discovered the spirit of God when I was just about 18, 19 stepping it up you know?"  ALL youth go through this, hence why the Siddhartha myth is so resonant in the first place, and we all discover that First Noble Truth. This is why I feel it is so important for to work with our youth ministries to help guide and mentor our young adults through these crises. We all had them, and we can all help to work with our youth through them.  Lets be honest, we all have them still all the time, there is no age-limit to spiritual crises.  All the more why we as a community need to be focusing our efforts on the youth.  The, "Let em fight it out" approach is not successful, and and it underplays those folks who mentored ourselves into our adulthood.  Personally, I wouldn't wish HALF of the misbehavior of my youth when as Bob said, I was "steppin up" and if I could help even a SINGLE youth  not make a SINGLE of my plethora of mistakes, I feel like Joseph saving his brothers :)

God bless all of y'all who have contributed positively on this thread to support our young brother, lets keep it up in our own parishes day by day, the youth are not just our future, they are our here and now, we need to empower them in the right directions.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
 

JamesR

Taxiarches
Joined
Nov 4, 2011
Messages
6,924
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
24
Location
The Underground
How am I supposed to interpret the book of Job? I read it like a month ago and I felt really disappointed. We spend pages and pages reading of this man's tribulation caused by God, and in the very end when we finally expect to get an answer, it is just one lousy paragraph where God does not even answer any of Job's questions.
 

HabteSelassie

Archon
Joined
Nov 2, 2010
Messages
3,314
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Los Angeles
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

JamesR said:
How am I supposed to interpret the book of Job? I read it like a month ago and I felt really disappointed. We spend pages and pages reading of this man's tribulation caused by God, and in the very end when we finally expect to get an answer, it is just one lousy paragraph where God does not even answer any of Job's questions.
Have you ever listened to a really sad or angry song that actually helped you vent and express your feelings and in a weird way feel better? That is how I feel about listening to Radiohead or Tool, the music can seem depressing to some folks, but for me, it has the exact opposite effect, it becomes a vehicle to help me understand and make sense of my feelings through this new language of music.  Literature, be it Shakespeare or the Bible, is the same thing my young brother.  We read books and novels and the Bible to help give us symbolic and metaphorical tools to better understand and express ourselves.  It becomes a new spiritual vocabulary. In regards to the more depressing books of the Bible such as Job or parts of the Psalter, these somber books are meant to give us a tool to understand these darker moments of life.  They way they "cheer us up" is a bit more subtle but all the more effective.

In regards to Job specifically, there are a lot of examples of what to do, and what not do in life.  Even Job's friends have much wisdom to say, however their timing and approach was all wrong.  Further sometimes Job's outbursts were crass and immature, but we also learn to make sense of our more selfish side through seeing it work out in the character or Job in the literary sense.  There are also commentaries by some Fathers to help us understand these things as well.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
 

stavros_388

OC.Net Guru
Joined
Sep 5, 2010
Messages
1,325
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Canada
JamesR said:
You guys got me. quitmorning's last post really spoke to me. I guess I will at least try to come back to the faith and heal myself. But the fact remains that I still have so many questions. Everyone just keeps telling me how to deal with suffering and while it is all good advice, my scholastic side is still demaning an answer as to why God allows it in the first place. I'm afraid I cannot get myself to follow any of that advice until I know the answer because my entire perception of whp God is is based on what that answer will be.

What comes after anger? I do not know. Where do I go from here? I'm scared of God now that I cursed Him and I feel like if I prayed to Him I would just be lying to Him and to myself because I would not really feel it or care. And unfortunately I committed a great sin by Communing last Sunday in this state because I thought that maybe it would 'motivate me to find righteousness'.
Hi, James. I am very happy to hear that you are still wrestling with God. I am a lot older than you and I still have days where I "hate God" and blame Him for injustice and suffering. Yet every time we turn away, He remains, constant, like the father of the prodigal son. Just over a year ago, I cursed God and ripped a bible to shreds when my mom was dying of cancer. I've also communed in an unworthy state before, hoping it would give me my back. God is merciful. We can turn away, run, rebel, lash out, whatever, but God is unchanging. He is love. My advice: don't think so much. The mind gets in knots over questions that can only be answered by a heart that has surrendered to God.
 

Kerdy

Taxiarches
Joined
Jan 23, 2011
Messages
5,813
Reaction score
0
Points
0
JamesR said:
How am I supposed to interpret the book of Job? I read it like a month ago and I felt really disappointed. We spend pages and pages reading of this man's tribulation caused by God, and in the very end when we finally expect to get an answer, it is just one lousy paragraph where God does not even answer any of Job's questions.
I have a feeling you missed the entire point of the story.  
 

orthonorm

Hoplitarches
Joined
Jul 24, 2010
Messages
17,715
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Now can we all let James go back to posting his different thoughts whether they be about Job or whathaveyou in other threads?

This thread seems to have been exhausted as regards to the OP, thankfully.

Drudging back up comment x, y, or z seems to be academic at best at this point and harmful at worst.

A moderate suggestion.

 

Green_Umbrella

Sr. Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2012
Messages
188
Reaction score
0
Points
0
JamesR said:
How am I supposed to interpret the book of Job? I read it like a month ago and I felt really disappointed. We spend pages and pages reading of this man's tribulation caused by God, and in the very end when we finally expect to get an answer, it is just one lousy paragraph where God does not even answer any of Job's questions.
Jobs tribulation was not caused by God. Satan came to God. God did not go to Satan.  With the permission of God, Job was tried by Satan.  

Anyways. God gave the answer. You just did not like it so you look for another. God is sovereign. He is the highest king. He does and allows what he wills. He answers to no one. He is not interested in our opinions.  

"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god beside me; I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand."  Deuteronomy 32:39

"All the people of the earth are nothing compared to him. He does as he pleases among the angels of heaven and among the people of the earth. No one can stop him or say to him, ‘What do you mean by doing these things?’" Daniel 4:35

The situation is made clear over and over in the bible. This is God. No democracy. No committees. He is not a personal new age guru to make people feel good. This is a kingdom and God is the king. If a person is angry at God because of suffering and stops worship for him they missed the whole thing from the start. We do not worship God for what we can get out of him. We do not worship God because we are rich or poor. Healthy or sick. Sad or happy. We worship God because we recognize the sovereignty of God and submit ourselves to it.

Now this is not popular in the cultures of entitlements and  "me me me" society. It is in complete contrary to it and a whole lot people do not like it. That is too hard. That is not fair. But it does not matter. That is the way it is. God is sovereign. God is just. You are not. That is how you interpret the book of Job.

My opinion.
 

Ashman618

High Elder
Joined
Sep 7, 2012
Messages
510
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Bless the Lord o' your soul James :),  with regards to your question about suffering I don't think anyone can truly satisfy your question except Christ but for what its worth, God did create an entire race a beings who didn't suffer pain or loss or disaster, but that didn't seem to work out either :(
 

Cantor Krishnich

High Elder
Joined
Nov 26, 2011
Messages
545
Reaction score
0
Points
0
I am in totally shock after having read what I've just read. Everyone else has already said what I would have. I wont insult you but I pray for you and for all of those who have strayed away from the faith that you will come to repentance. The once zealous James has now shaken hands with the evil one. I've seen this case alot. I just want to say that you do appear to be very immature. May God Have Mercy Upon Us All! Most Holy Theotokos Save Us!
 


 

DavidH

High Elder
Joined
Nov 2, 2005
Messages
541
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
56
Location
Dallas, Tx.
Website
www.LandscapeDallas.com
The point of Job is simple (whether it is satisfying for those of us in distress or not): God gives us our blessings, God may take them away- bless Him either way. If we lose it all we WILL get it (or better) back in this life or later if we remain faithful so... stay the course.

In other words, it's SO black AND white, it's grey.
 

OrthoNoob

OC.Net Guru
Joined
Jun 3, 2012
Messages
1,159
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Cantor Krishnich said:
I am in totally shock after having read what I've just read. Everyone else has already said what I would have. I wont insult you but I pray for you and for all of those who have strayed away from the faith that you will come to repentance. The once zealous James has now shaken hands with the evil one. I've seen this case alot. I just want to say that you do appear to be very immature. May God Have Mercy Upon Us All! Most Holy Theotokos Save Us!
 
Heh. Read a little further, he's back now.
 

Asteriktos

Hypatos
Joined
Oct 4, 2002
Messages
39,222
Reaction score
90
Points
48
Age
41
Every time I see the title of this thread I think it says "I am Goddess"  8)
 
Top