I am Godless

Second Chance

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This thread is degenerating. I am calling for a recess for us to cool down a bit. I will unlock it next week. Thanks, Carl Kraeff
 

Cyrillic

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I feel that the thread was better off locked. It was disturbing from post 1.
 

Green_Umbrella

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Cyrillic said:
I feel that the thread was better off locked. It was disturbing from post 1.
It is disturbing and unfortunately something we hear more often. I can assure him his troubles are not as severe as he thinks.

I do wonder what he would say if he was a 10 year old Bolivian boy who spent last night combing through the city garbage behind a horse drawn cart with his 12 year old sister.  Prominent knee bones and dull hair from malnutrition. Living next to a recycling center between cardboard, wood and under a sheet metal roof. His bathroom is an open sewer. When he wakes up after 12 from gathering recyclables all night he either goes to beg or commit petty crime. This could be his life day after day. His future job opportunities might include fighting another boy like him for his spot at a street intersection where he jumps out at red lights to wash windshields for some coins. This or selling pirated CDs on a downtown sidewalk. A pretty scene no?

It is not as bad as you think it is James. Make the best of what you got.
 

Second Chance

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I reopened it because I have a feeling that James will come back one day and that somehow both the positive and negative posts may have a role in his return. 
 

JamesR

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Green_Umbrella said:
Cyrillic said:
I feel that the thread was better off locked. It was disturbing from post 1.
It is disturbing and unfortunately something we hear more often. I can assure him his troubles are not as severe as he thinks.

I do wonder what he would say if he was a 10 year old Bolivian boy who spent last night combing through the city garbage behind a horse drawn cart with his 12 year old sister.  Prominent knee bones and dull hair from malnutrition. Living next to a recycling center between cardboard, wood and under a sheet metal roof. His bathroom is an open sewer. When he wakes up after 12 from gathering recyclables all night he either goes to beg or commit petty crime. This could be his life day after day. His future job opportunities might include fighting another boy like him for his spot at a street intersection where he jumps out at red lights to wash windshields for some coins. This or selling pirated CDs on a downtown sidewalk. A pretty scene no?

It is not as bad as you think it is James. Make the best of what you got.
I am not saying that others do not have it worse than me. But that your whole notion of 'making the best' of it and/or 'being thankful' is rather stupid to be quite frank. Neither I nor the other people suffering worsely should have to 'be thankful' or 'make the best' of evil in the first place because God should not allow us to endure the evil at all. Every act of suffering in the world is because of God. He could stop it all right now if He wished but He does not. Humans deserve better. I deserve better. That pork kid and all the dying people deserve better. Quit kissing God's behind and instead demand the justice you deserve from Him. Satan is a true martyr because He recognized this fact and stood up against God, even giving up his glory and spot in Heaven, just because it was the right thing to do. And going further, he even further risked his life by enlightening us at the 'fall' despite knowing that God would probably punish him.
 

Papist

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JamesR said:
Green_Umbrella said:
Cyrillic said:
I feel that the thread was better off locked. It was disturbing from post 1.
It is disturbing and unfortunately something we hear more often. I can assure him his troubles are not as severe as he thinks.

I do wonder what he would say if he was a 10 year old Bolivian boy who spent last night combing through the city garbage behind a horse drawn cart with his 12 year old sister.  Prominent knee bones and dull hair from malnutrition. Living next to a recycling center between cardboard, wood and under a sheet metal roof. His bathroom is an open sewer. When he wakes up after 12 from gathering recyclables all night he either goes to beg or commit petty crime. This could be his life day after day. His future job opportunities might include fighting another boy like him for his spot at a street intersection where he jumps out at red lights to wash windshields for some coins. This or selling pirated CDs on a downtown sidewalk. A pretty scene no?

It is not as bad as you think it is James. Make the best of what you got.
I am not saying that others do not have it worse than me. But that your whole notion of 'making the best' of it and/or 'being thankful' is rather stupid to be quite frank. Neither I nor the other people suffering worsely should have to 'be thankful' or 'make the best' of evil in the first place because God should not allow us to endure the evil at all. Every act of suffering in the world is because of God. He could stop it all right now if He wished but He does not. Humans deserve better. I deserve better. That pork kid and all the dying people deserve better. Quit kissing God's behind and instead demand the justice you deserve from Him. Satan is a true martyr because He recognized this fact and stood up against God, even giving up his glory and spot in Heaven, just because it was the right thing to do. And going further, he even further risked his life by enlightening us at the 'fall' despite knowing that God would probably punish him.
Do we really deserve better? How many of the "good" acts we commit are tainted by pride, envy, selfishness, etc?
 

orthonorm

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Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) said:
I reopened it because I have a feeling that James will come back one day and that somehow both the positive and negative posts may have a role in his return. 
JamesR has gone all Sturm und Drang. He'll hit Neo-Classicism and be in the RCC within a decade. JamesR decided to follow the Goethe travelog of life.

He's always been touched a bit with the overly analytical. The Romans will love him.

Something to read along the way:

Shroud your heaven, Zeus,
With cloudy vapours,
And do as you will, like the boy
That knocks the heads off thistles,
With oak-trees and mountain-tops;
Now you must leave alone
My Earth for Me,
And my hut, which you did not build,
And my hearth,
The glowing whereof
You envy me.
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Prometheus_(Goethe)
 

Schultz

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Papist said:
JamesR said:
Green_Umbrella said:
Cyrillic said:
I feel that the thread was better off locked. It was disturbing from post 1.
It is disturbing and unfortunately something we hear more often. I can assure him his troubles are not as severe as he thinks.

I do wonder what he would say if he was a 10 year old Bolivian boy who spent last night combing through the city garbage behind a horse drawn cart with his 12 year old sister.  Prominent knee bones and dull hair from malnutrition. Living next to a recycling center between cardboard, wood and under a sheet metal roof. His bathroom is an open sewer. When he wakes up after 12 from gathering recyclables all night he either goes to beg or commit petty crime. This could be his life day after day. His future job opportunities might include fighting another boy like him for his spot at a street intersection where he jumps out at red lights to wash windshields for some coins. This or selling pirated CDs on a downtown sidewalk. A pretty scene no?

It is not as bad as you think it is James. Make the best of what you got.
I am not saying that others do not have it worse than me. But that your whole notion of 'making the best' of it and/or 'being thankful' is rather stupid to be quite frank. Neither I nor the other people suffering worsely should have to 'be thankful' or 'make the best' of evil in the first place because God should not allow us to endure the evil at all. Every act of suffering in the world is because of God. He could stop it all right now if He wished but He does not. Humans deserve better. I deserve better. That pork kid and all the dying people deserve better. Quit kissing God's behind and instead demand the justice you deserve from Him. Satan is a true martyr because He recognized this fact and stood up against God, even giving up his glory and spot in Heaven, just because it was the right thing to do. And going further, he even further risked his life by enlightening us at the 'fall' despite knowing that God would probably punish him.
Do we really deserve better? How many of the "good" acts we commit are tainted by pride, envy, selfishness, etc?
We do deserve better.  WE have to make it so.  What JamesR wants is for someone else to do his dirty work so he doesn't have to. 

It all starts with you, not with someone else.  That's the lesson JamesR misses because he doesn't want to hear it, just like most people angry with a God they claim doesn't exist.

 

Shanghaiski

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James,

See if you can do this three times to make a statement. Go to church, stand before the icon of Christ on the cross, point your finger at him and say with all the indignation you can muster, "You died for me and I don't give a damn!"
 

Quinault

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I don't know that you can really say that God shouldn't allow us to experience evil at all. The children I know that were sheltered from all the ugliness of life are the angriest people I know. When you overprotect a child, you hurt them; often permanently and irreparably.

I don't know why God allows suffering. I had an exceedingly difficult childhood. I have had the worst examples of maternal and paternal love possible. I could choose to take those examples and be angry. I could live wallowing in my own muck and mire cursing God. Almost anyone I know wouldn't fault me. A pedophile for a father, an abusive mother, an abusive step-father, every male or female adult figure in my life up to age 15 did their best to show me that life is unfair. The weak are preyed upon, strength is a virtue and weakness a curse.

There is a hope in knowing that despite the seemingly endless nights of suffering and torment as a child that I wasn't alone. My suffering wasn't something that delighted God. My life has a purpose, and if I choose it; my suffering can have a purpose as well. You can live your life cursing God for your trials and suffering. Or you can choose to ask God to help you forgive, heal and help others.
 

vamrat

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Quinault said:
I don't know that you can really say that God shouldn't allow us to experience evil at all. The children I know that were sheltered from all the ugliness of life are the angriest people I know. When you overprotect a child, you hurt them; often permanently and irreparably.
I wonder if Quinault just cut to the quick.
 

JamesR

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Shanghaiski said:
James,

See if you can do this three times to make a statement. Go to church, stand before the icon of Christ on the cross, point your finger at him and say with all the indignation you can muster, "You died for me and I don't give a damn!"
While I do feel that way, I do not think I could do it because I am afraid Christ would punish me. I cannot even keep eye contact with the Icon of Christ because whenever I look into His eyes I feel like He is angry with me. When I look into the eyes of the Icon of the Theotokos I feel like she feels sympathy for me, and when I look into the eyes of John the Baptist I feel like he is saying 'you know what you must do, why not do it?' but deep down I do not know what I am supposed to do. I honestly do not care that Christ died because I feel that it has not made any difference in my life at all. But blatantly pointing to His Icon and rudely condemning Him is something I am afraid to do. Satan may have been brave enough (or foolish enough) to risk punishment by opposing God in crazy ways, but I am not. I still recognize that He can punish me at any point.
 

JamesR

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Forget it, I will just admit it. I cannot accept that challenge because deep down I still love and appreciate Him even when I do not understand Him and feel like I hate Him.
 

dzheremi

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Well, good. Work with that. "Lord I believe, help my unbelief" and all that.
 

Quinault

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LizaSymonenko said:
That makes two youngsters who have stumbled off the path this month, and are now lost in the wilderness - James and Trevor.

Both were so zealous, and now are so.....

Let us raise our voices to God and ask for His mercy upon them, that they may see the error of their ways and return to the One Holy and Apostolic Church.
My honest assessment? I think that both young men are focusing too much on themselves. Faith and belief are not about "us." No more than love is about "us." To truly love someone you have to think outside yourself. You can't focus on the self only. You can't have real faith in anything if you can't step outside of yourself. As much as we want to hate Muslims that are terrorists, you have to admit they are not thinking solely of themselves. They are committed to a faith and belief system so throughly that they are willing to sacrifice their very lives. In the US we go to church only when it "feels" good. We don't understand how to sacrifice *everything* for what we believe. We think that we have it so tough. We are so fortunate and blessed to live where and when we do. Even in our suffering, we are fortunate indeed.

Ah...maybe that is why Trevor blocked me. I am not the most sympathetic person when it comes to whining about how tough life is. :D Life is not fair, we don't get what we think we deserve. We can choose to move on with life past the pain, or we can choose to wallow. We can choose to make the low points in our lives define and haunt us, or we can choose to allow them to shape us into better people. Bitterness doesn't help anyone. We don't choose to believe or not to believe simply because life isn't fair. All the people I admire the most persevered in difficult times. No one every looks at the boy with the golden spoon in his mouth given everything, with a perfect life with respect. The experiences we have to draw from give us character and strength if we allow them to.

It is possible to see that life sucks, and people are awful and yet still believe there is a sovereign and just God. Or, you can wallow in the mud screaming woe is me while tearing your clothing, starving to death next to a banquet table. It is your choice.
 

Quinault

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I am entirely pessimistic of people. I assume everyone will hurt me if given the chance (outside of a few select people and family). If I didn't believe there was a just and loving God it would be open season on humanity. The knowledge that humans are *capable* of goodness because there is a God is the only thing that keeps me from just treating life like the Hunger games.

I hope someday I will have some faith in humanity automatically. For now, it literally takes near a decade before I really trust anyone. This is a sad condition, but I am actively working on it. Believe it or not, I have made a great deal of progress despite how cynical I sound. :police:
 

JamesR

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I'll die in the mud with pride knowing I stood up against evil than to dine at a banquet with a monster.
 
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