I am Godless

Quinault

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Pride...yep that is the key part here. When it comes to faith or belief, pride is something that will always be a hamper. You can have pride, or you can have faith. You can't have both.

You also can't have love and pride. For that, I really do pity you.
 

JamesR

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Sure you can. That's just another lie God told you. I love my baby sister despite my pride and God is not responsible for my love at all. I take pity in you for being a sheep. For all the suffering we have endured, you choose to kiss the behind of the guy who allowed it to happen while I choose to oppose Him and finally stand up and do something about it. I create my own happiness. I achieve my potential. You allow yourself to be bound by a deadbeat father. If anything, some of the most morally enlightened people were godless. Ever notice that God sanctioned genocide and allows everyone to die, whereas the Devil never killed a single person?
 

Quinault

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I think if we compared lives/happiness I am ahead of you by a bit. :) I have been with the same man almost 20 years, I have 5 beautiful kids. I am happy, I hope you can be happy someday. If there is one thing in this train of thought you have made abundantly clear, it is that you are most decidedly not happy.
 

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Quinault

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Let's just propose for a moment you are right. God cares nothing for us and it is pointless to worship him. I live my life happily and end my days believing in Him for naught. What possible harm have I done to my soul? People hurt me. God at best was there for me when I chose to pick up the pieces. At worst he sat by while I was hurt. In either case he wasn't the one actually hurting me. My father, my mother, my step father and countless other people used me up like trash and threw me away. If I were to look at my value from earthly terms I would agree with my abusers that I am only worth what can be forcibly taken from me. Indeed, faith may be for the weak. But I would rather be weak and have value in the eyes of a God that may not be there, than be "strong" and have no value in the eyes of men.
 

dzheremi

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What gets me about all this "why does God have us experience hardship" stuff is, well, who told you it would be otherwise? Christ our God explicitly said that it's really going to suck a lot of the time to be His followers (not in those exact words, of course). All the great saints from the days of the early church through today have affirmed that in having led hard lives, being martyrs or passion-bearers, etc. Not part of "Christian" spells 'easy'. I listened to a sermon a long time ago when I was first becoming seriously interested in Orthodoxy where the priest put it like this: "Do you all remember the story about the saint who praised God from his comfortable bed, whenever he bothered to wake up, without ever leaving his warm sheets or lifting a finger to exert himself in worshiping God? ...No? That's right, because he doesn't exist."

But if you think the struggle is tough with God, without Him it is impossible. You might feel "better" because you stop struggling, and hence trick yourself into thinking your hardships are over because you have stopped living with God, but you'll find out too late the difference between victory in Christ and giving up in laziness and selfishness. Lord have mercy. The key to the Christian life, like any kind of life, is endurance. But while the Christian endurance is to a good end with eternal life at its summit, away from God you might live a long life only to find out that the time you spent not training your body and soul was the last trouble-free time you'll have. And then it is suddenly not the obvious choice for the person who wants to be free of hardship and pain.
 

Quinault

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JamesR said:
Sure you can. That's just another lie God told you. I love my baby sister despite my pride and God is not responsible for my love at all.
The fact that you are 16 is very telling in this statement.
 

Kerdy

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JamesR said:
Green_Umbrella said:
Cyrillic said:
I feel that the thread was better off locked. It was disturbing from post 1.
It is disturbing and unfortunately something we hear more often. I can assure him his troubles are not as severe as he thinks.

I do wonder what he would say if he was a 10 year old Bolivian boy who spent last night combing through the city garbage behind a horse drawn cart with his 12 year old sister.  Prominent knee bones and dull hair from malnutrition. Living next to a recycling center between cardboard, wood and under a sheet metal roof. His bathroom is an open sewer. When he wakes up after 12 from gathering recyclables all night he either goes to beg or commit petty crime. This could be his life day after day. His future job opportunities might include fighting another boy like him for his spot at a street intersection where he jumps out at red lights to wash windshields for some coins. This or selling pirated CDs on a downtown sidewalk. A pretty scene no?

It is not as bad as you think it is James. Make the best of what you got.
I am not saying that others do not have it worse than me. But that your whole notion of 'making the best' of it and/or 'being thankful' is rather stupid to be quite frank. Neither I nor the other people suffering worsely should have to 'be thankful' or 'make the best' of evil in the first place because God should not allow us to endure the evil at all. Every act of suffering in the world is because of God. He could stop it all right now if He wished but He does not. Humans deserve better. I deserve better. That pork kid and all the dying people deserve better. Quit kissing God's behind and instead demand the justice you deserve from Him. Satan is a true martyr because He recognized this fact and stood up against God, even giving up his glory and spot in Heaven, just because it was the right thing to do. And going further, he even further risked his life by enlightening us at the 'fall' despite knowing that God would probably punish him.
You supply a lot of statements but can you support the why of those statements?  See the bolded portion...Why not?
 

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vamrat said:
Quinault said:
I don't know that you can really say that God shouldn't allow us to experience evil at all. The children I know that were sheltered from all the ugliness of life are the angriest people I know. When you overprotect a child, you hurt them; often permanently and irreparably.
I wonder if Quinault just cut to the quick.
Too right she did.  Sheltering children from everything, the realities of life and responsibility for anything, is just as destructive as abuse.  The consequences from such an upbringing is all-encompassing and pervasive throughout your life.  I had such an upbringing, and have much garbage to work through.  This paragraph alone is deserving of post of the month.
 

Kerdy

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JamesR said:
I'll die in the mud with pride knowing I stood up against evil than to dine at a banquet with a monster.
So you now realize Satan is a foolish evil being and like Jesus again?  Awesome!
 

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Im just curious James, why do you deserve better? Simply because you think you deserve better or is there an objective reason?
 

Quinault

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You do realize though that at 16 you have barely encountered hardship, right? Being a teen certainly isn't easy. But life becomes more...ah...complicated as you get older. And raging against God for creating hardship is like raging against the ocean for a tsunami. It doesn't really accomplish anything, you don't prevent destruction from occurring.

My life was hard..I mean HARD growing up. In all honesty I have encountered more traumatizing and difficult things as an adult. I have had greater control, which makes it harder. At least as a child I had no control, thus no real responsibility for my suffering. I hate to tell you, but it doesn't really get better contrary to what the viral videos say. It gets easier, but it never really gets better. It only gets easier when you learn to deal with it rather than get angry.

Obviously you can tell by my last statement that I don't see life as all sunshine and happiness. Obviously I don't want to raise completely cynical children. The only honest answer I can give when my kids notice suffering is that it is present in life. We live our lives to the best of our ability. Often people hurt us, or we see the ones we love hurting. We teach them that when you can ease the suffering of another person you should always try to do something. In those times we feel helpless, prayer is the only answer when action isn't an option. We may not get what we want, but life isn't about that. Faith isn't about getting what we want either. Prayer doesn't change the heart of God, it changes our hearts. God isn't waiting for the "magic words" before He intervenes.

In all honesty; if you think the suffering of humanity you see is too much, why is your first reaction anger with God? Your first reaction should be to DO SOMETHING. The fact that your kneejerk reaction to the suffering of others is to internalize it and use it "against" God is further proof of your pride and selfishness. I doubt the homeless people on the street are comforted by your wrath with God.

Hate God if you like, it really only hurts you. But if you see suffering in others your responsible for that suffering if you don't do something when you can. See a homeless person without a coat? Get them a coat. You have the power to be the change you want to see. But you would have to look outside of yourself and get your face out of your bellybutton.

At least Trevor is organizing blood drives...
 

JamesR

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For your information, every bit of money I have been making has been going into a charity jar I started at the beginning of the year that I plan to donate at the end of the year and despite my obsession with money, most of the money I make goes to help other people, even when it discomforts me. I did this all without God. To answer the question others have been asking--why do I deserve better/why should God end suffering? Because I am God's responsibility. The entire creation is God's responsibility. If anyone should fix it then it should be Him. God is like Dr. Frankenstein in that He created a monster and blames the monster for its evil and allows it to do evil when He is the one responsible for it. I'm no longer asking God for a handout. I know that He is not going to do anything. So I am creating my own justice, trying to attain my own happiness and helping others do the same. I oftentimes hear people say that God helps you to do good. I disagree. Without God I can do more good than I was ever able to do before. For starters, instead of always daydreaming about some other transcendent 'Second Coming' world that you all dream of, I create the world I want right now as we speak through every dollar I give to a homeless person. This is why Marxism is so much more appealing than Christianity; instead of waiting around for Paradise to come, I create Paradise right now. Earlier you brought up Pascal's Wager by stating how even if God was evil, then you are at least still happy from worshipping Him. I disagree with you. While you may find happiness in Him, I do not. The way I see it is that either way I am going to die in the end whether I am happy or sad. I figure I might as well indulge and be happy in this life living godless than to be tied down and miserable worshipping God only to still die in the end.
 

Quinault

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"Second Coming"? Did you pay any attention in your catechism? I think you are mistaking Orthodoxy for dispensationalism.

You aren't happy though. So obviously you are "doing it wrong." If you were truly comfortable in agnosticism, you wouldn't be so angry. Not to mention, you still haven't changed your board profile information to reflect your "new enlightenment" to how evil and capricious God is. Nonetheless, my point remains; I am happier than you even if I am "wrong." Once you are happy, maybe your argument will hold some weight. I still see an angry teen in your postings, not a rational person that has found some sense.
 

JamesR

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I was the brightest student in all the classes, my Priest even urged me to come sometimes just because he said that having me in the class would benefit the other teens. Yet even with my knowledge I have turned my back on God. I won't worship the deadbeat father responsible for all the suffering in the world.
 

LBK

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JamesR said:
I was the brightest student in all the classes, my Priest even urged me to come sometimes just because he said that having me in the class would benefit the other teens. Yet even with my knowledge I have turned my back on God. I won't worship the deadbeat father responsible for all the suffering in the world.
Hubris, pure and simple.
 

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JamesR said:
This is why Marxism is so much more appealing than Christianity; instead of waiting around for Paradise to come, I create Paradise right now.
Oh, yes l remember all too well the 'paradise' of pre-Revolution Romania. If that's the kind of Paradise your new-found theomachist 'faith' leads you to long for, you probably deserve to experience it. Might I suggest North Korea as your next holiday destination?

James
 

Quinault

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You bemoan the inability to murder in your first post, then triumph in giving money away in your most recent post? So why not save money for the homeless and go "Kick!@#" (referencing the movie) on the evil people? Because you don't actually want to kill anyone. Why bemoan the inability to murder, when you don't actually want to murder anyone?

I know if I knew it was perfectly OK that I would have a loooonnnnggggg list to start on TOMORROW!
 

Quinault

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jmbejdl said:
JamesR said:
This is why Marxism is so much more appealing than Christianity; instead of waiting around for Paradise to come, I create Paradise right now.
Oh, yes l remember all too well the 'paradise' of pre-Revolution Romania. If that's the kind of Paradise your new-found theomachist 'faith' leads you to long for, you probably deserve to experience it. Might I suggest North Korea as your next holiday destination?

James
Spoken like a real US teenager that has never lived there! ;D
 
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