I saw a vision of Mary and she told me to become a Roman Catholic!!!

Poppy

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I have read a tonne of Protestant experiences of god..... in their meetings where they are falling all over the floor and then theres the prophecies that came to them in a vision or the have a speaking in tongues moment or they have a word of knowledge to go and give to someone else usually about them moving abroad or becoming a missionary or there going to marry someone or w/eva.....and all this is easily dismissed and ridiculed because the people that are doing this stuff are deluded.

Ok so...

Then we come to the visions of Mary popping up all over the place and all the other snake vision and demon visions that people have in Orthodoxy......seems the same to me BUT.... the people who mostly has the vision are priests and monks. Well thats a bit more dangerous and not so easy to dismiss away because of the authority that the person carries that is telling the things they experienced.

Does the priests words immediately get accepted as genuinely from God because of who they are?? is my first question

With Orthodox priests, is there any time that they are NOT in their office (like when the Pope is speaking from his chair then hes infallible) say like when priests are on this forum or out at a restaurant or on the loo, do their words always carry weight because of who they are and their office?? Is my second question
 

Orthodox11

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Poppy said:
Does the priests words immediately get accepted as genuinely from God because of who they are?? is my first question
No. They're fallible like anyone else.

With Orthodox priests, is there any time that they are NOT in their office (like when the Pope is speaking from his chair then hes infallible) say like when priests are on this forum or out at a restaurant or on the loo, do their words always carry weight because of who they are and their office?? Is my second question
A priest is always a priest, even on the loo.
 

Poppy

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Michał Kalina said:
How is the thread title related to the OP or anything at all?
because its about weird visions primarily that people have and how weird do they have to be before what is said in them or done in them is questioned, so... its directly related to it.


I know your going to move this lolOl  :p
 

Poppy

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Orthodox11 said:
Poppy said:
Does the priests words immediately get accepted as genuinely from God because of who they are?? is my first question
No. They're fallible like anyone else.

With Orthodox priests, is there any time that they are NOT in their office (like when the Pope is speaking from his chair then hes infallible) say like when priests are on this forum or out at a restaurant or on the loo, do their words always carry weight because of who they are and their office?? Is my second question
A priest is always a priest, even on the loo.
So how does someone who reads or hears of visions of Mary or visitations of her.....how do they sort out if it is genuine or not?? Obviously the person themself thinks its genuine but, your not allowed to question priests are you??
 

Orthodox11

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Poppy said:
So how does someone who reads or hears of visions of Mary or visitations of her.....how do they sort out if it is genuine or not?? Obviously the person themself thinks its genuine but, your not allowed to question priests are you??
Generally speaking, visions, miracles, etc. are always initially treated with suspicion. We have tons of stories of people who saw visions of what they thought were the holy Virgin, a saint, or an angel, but which turned out to be demonic deception.

The content of the vision has to be analysed based on the experience of the Church: did the saint/angel in the vision teach heresy (see Galatians 1:8 ), did it bring you closer to God or distance you from Him, did it make you feel proud or humble, did the person who had the vision repent of their sins or continue in worse ones, etc.?

As I'm sure you can tell from many of the exchanges on this board, people question priests all the time.
 

biro

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Just a note: as far as the Roman Catholics, their faithful are not required to believe in most of the private visions people have claimed to have. Only a very few visions, such as Fatima and Lourdes, are accepted by their church as 'true.' The other kind that you hear about on the news, such as when somebody claims to see the face of Jesus in a pancake... no one is honor-bound to take those seriously.
 

Poppy

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Orthodox11 said:
Poppy said:
So how does someone who reads or hears of visions of Mary or visitations of her.....how do they sort out if it is genuine or not?? Obviously the person themself thinks its genuine but, your not allowed to question priests are you??
Generally speaking, visions, miracles, etc. are always initially treated with suspicion. We have tons of stories of people who saw visions of what they thought were the holy Virgin, a saint, or an angel, but which turned out to be demonic deception.

The content of the vision has to be analysed based on the experience of the Church: did the saint/angel in the vision teach heresy (see Galatians 1:8 ), did it bring you closer to God or distance you from Him, did it make you feel proud or humble, did the person who had the vision repent of their sins or continue in worse ones, etc.?

As I'm sure you can tell from many of the exchanges on this board, people question priests all the time.
Well questioning priests on a anonymous forum is way different when your face to face with him in your own church.

But thanks, i didn't know that it all gets analysed. I thought it might be just acepted because it's a priest saying it. But i suppose then its more safe BECAUSE of who had the vision or w/eva..... it means they get checked more than the average person.

 

Poppy

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so just to clarify my other question then, that there is no time at all when the priest is on and off?? His words are always a priests words no matter what time of day it is or where he is.
 

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Poppy said:
so just to clarify my other question then, that there is no time at all when the priest is on and off?? His words are always a priests words no matter what time of day it is or where he is.
He's always a priest, but priests can be wrong about all kinds of things, including spiritual and theological ones.
 

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Poppy said:
your not allowed to question priests are you??
We would all be Arians if it weren't for a deacon, not just questioning, but straight up condemning the teaching of a priest in his own city.
 

JR

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Well I am Roman Catholic and I don't believe in the visions, or in Fatima and Lourdes.

and yes we question the priests as well.

 

LizaSymonenko

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If you are RC, why do you question Fatima and Lourdes, which your Church recognizes as legititmate?

 

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When listening to priests, we should have a "trust but verify" outlook. We do listen to the priest because of who he is and the special priestly grace he has received. But as was noted, priests can also be wrong, so we need to still keep a healthy scepticism about us. Trust but verify.

Sometimes the Church describes Christians as "rational sheep." We are sheep and we need to follow our spiritual shepherds in this world; but we also need to think for ourselves, because there are bad shepherds out there.
 

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LizaSymonenko said:
If you are RC, why do you question Fatima and Lourdes, which your Church recognizes as legititmate?
Because the RC uses these for political reasons, in both cases the catholic church was suffering in both Russia and France, so they invented these to boost there numbers and regain control.
fatima and false prophecy.
lourdes to back up there claim of the new dogma of the Immaculate conception.

neither of these is convincing if you look at the history behind it.

and how can you trust a church that changes its dogma to suite its teachings? and why does it change its teachings? was the apostles and the early church wrong in what they taught?

I don't think so! do you?
 

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LizaSymonenko said:
If you are RC, why do you question Fatima and Lourdes, which your Church recognizes as legititmate?
Because approved private revelations are just that: private revelations. The fact that they are approved by our Church just means that we may believe in them. We are not required to believe in them.
 

ialmisry

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Wyatt said:
LizaSymonenko said:
If you are RC, why do you question Fatima and Lourdes, which your Church recognizes as legititmate?
Because approved private revelations are just that: private revelations. The fact that they are approved by our Church just means that we may believe in them. We are not required to believe in them.
try going to a parish of the Vatican's and saying you don't believe in Fatima and Lourdes, and see how far you get.
 

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ialmisry said:
Wyatt said:
LizaSymonenko said:
If you are RC, why do you question Fatima and Lourdes, which your Church recognizes as legititmate?
Because approved private revelations are just that: private revelations. The fact that they are approved by our Church just means that we may believe in them. We are not required to believe in them.
try going to a parish of the Vatican's and saying you don't believe in Fatima and Lourdes, and see how far you get.
For what reason?

Am I supposed to believe everything I am told by the church? Like paying for indulgences? or the none scriptural purgatory? or the Filioque, or the immaculate conception? and the infallibility  of the pope?

None of these things are the original teachings of the early church.

And telling lies for political gain is Christian? creating heresy to back up your teachings is correct?

This is why I am looking in to orthodoxy, because you have not changed  your faith, it is the same as from the apostles.

So is there any reason why I should believe or trust and have faith in what the RCC teach?  I would very interested to hear this !
 

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If a priest were to have a vision or dream of a saint, angel, or even a demon, it is not his business to tell it to his parish. It is his business to tell it to his bishop and confessor. After that, if there is something useful to share with people, the bishop may guide him in how to deliver that to the parish. Otherwise, it's only to be shared with his confessor/bishop. The priest is only there to deliver to the parish what has been delivered to him by the Church.
 

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ialmisry said:
Wyatt said:
LizaSymonenko said:
If you are RC, why do you question Fatima and Lourdes, which your Church recognizes as legititmate?
Because approved private revelations are just that: private revelations. The fact that they are approved by our Church just means that we may believe in them. We are not required to believe in them.
try going to a parish of the Vatican's and saying you don't believe in Fatima and Lourdes, and see how far you get.
Though he has not come right out and said it, my Priest gives the impression that he does not believe in them, or at the very least does not see them as spiritually profitable. I would have to agree to an extent. I mean, if private revelations are a spiritual aide to a person and lead them to a deeper relationship with Jesus Christ then good, but if they are a distraction and take away from Jesus then that is not a good thing. Some people get so wrapped up in the devotion itself that they forget the ultimate meaning of all devotions.
 

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JR, just so you know, people stopped paying for indulgences many, many years ago. The RCC policy now is that indulgences can only be obtained through prayer. If you wish to leave the RCC and become Orthodox, that is one thing, but do it truthfully, not believing in some half-baked misconception.
 

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biro said:
JR, just so you know, people stopped paying for indulgences many, many years ago. The RCC policy now is that indulgences can only be obtained through prayer. If you wish to leave the RCC and become Orthodox, that is one thing, but do it truthfully, not believing in some half-baked misconception.
Actually you can still get indulgences through pilgrimages.

At the Church of St. Peter in Antioch there is a plaque on the wall announcing that all Catholics in good standing with the church get an indulgence for visiting the site.
 

ialmisry

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biro said:
JR, just so you know, people stopped paying for indulgences many, many years ago. The RCC policy now is that indulgences can only be obtained through prayer. If you wish to leave the RCC and become Orthodox, that is one thing, but do it truthfully, not believing in some half-baked misconception.
When I was in one of the Vatican's high schools in the 80's, the good fathers use to tell us "give a dollar, buy your way into heaven."  It may be half baked, but those in charge are the bakers.
 

ialmisry

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Knee V said:
If a priest were to have a vision or dream of a saint, angel, or even a demon, it is not his business to tell it to his parish. It is his business to tell it to his bishop and confessor. After that, if there is something useful to share with people, the bishop may guide him in how to deliver that to the parish. Otherwise, it's only to be shared with his confessor/bishop. The priest is only there to deliver to the parish what has been delivered to him by the Church.
Amen!
 

ialmisry

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Wyatt said:
ialmisry said:
Wyatt said:
LizaSymonenko said:
If you are RC, why do you question Fatima and Lourdes, which your Church recognizes as legititmate?
Because approved private revelations are just that: private revelations. The fact that they are approved by our Church just means that we may believe in them. We are not required to believe in them.
try going to a parish of the Vatican's and saying you don't believe in Fatima and Lourdes, and see how far you get.
Though he has not come right out and said it, my Priest gives the impression that he does not believe in them, or at the very least does not see them as spiritually profitable. I would have to agree to an extent. I mean, if private revelations are a spiritual aide to a person and lead them to a deeper relationship with Jesus Christ then good, but if they are a distraction and take away from Jesus then that is not a good thing. Some people get so wrapped up in the devotion itself that they forget the ultimate meaning of all devotions.
yes, that is the danger.
 

AveChriste11

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I've also heard that if you want to have a Mass said for someone, you give the priest some money.  Not so much because you're buying indulgences for that person's soul,  but because the priest doesn't make anything anyways.. and maybe it will help him out.
 

biro

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Not necessarily. There are monasteries where you can donate, which is not for the Mass but for the upkeep. I've seen plenty of Masses said for people, and it's not like someone walks up to the priest and hands him some cash. Come on, already.  ::)
 

biro

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When I was in one of the Vatican's high schools in the 80's, the good fathers use to tell us "give a dollar, buy your way into heaven."  It may be half baked, but those in charge are the bakers.
You apparently have never heard of "a joke."

I really don't take you all that seriously anyway.  :p
 
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