Perhaps. I really don't know. But you think the existence of secret prayers is because the laity couldn't understand it? If that's the case then why did St. Justinian talk about it in the 6th century when the people still spoke Koine?
I think the existence of some inaudible prayers was originally to shorten the Liturgy. Looking for justification for that morphed into the idea the laity were not worthy of hearing them. That attitude coupled with the language of the people diverging from the language of the Liturgy there was less impetus to say the prayers aloud as they were less understandable. And that in turn paved the way for further abuse. Take for example the Prayers of Light from Vespers. They each had a specific place but once they became silent they didn’t even say them silently in their proper place and just lumped them together at the beginning of the service.
So it's an abuse and not an organic development throughout all Christendom?
It is both. Organic does not always equal good. Weeds and cancer are both organic.
The liturgy of the Church is inspired of the Spirit. There can be local errors in practice but the whole Church cannot have an erroneous liturgy. If prayers in secret are bad, then the Church fell into error for 1000 years. That's not to say that it couldn't be a better practice to say them with a loud voice now, but we can't condemn the Church for what is prescribed in the typikon for centuries.
I didn’t say we should condemn the Church. We must however strive for the best practice and not be afraid to admit when the Church failed to live up to its calling.
I agree, I just think saying the secrets are inherently wrong and a canonical abuse is taking it too far. Personally I like the anaphora said aloud.
Yes, the Holy Church had to endure a lot from various emperors, Greek and not.
I’ve been here several times as it’s only 90 km away from my hometown. One thing, they use different melodies than the orthodox in the same area. But otherwise not too dissimilar from the Orthodox. I’ve certainly seen way worse from Romanian GC.
Wow, quite a difference between the interior of this church and what I've seen in many Ethiopian Orthodox churches.
Most if not all Ethiopian/Eritrean and Coptic Catholic parishes are in borrowed temples of the Latin Church. Sometimes they are sharing the space with a Roman parish, sometimes they have exclusive use but don’t own the building. Being poor and immigrant communities they often lack the money to properly appoint their churches and are also sometime reluctant to do so since they may be told to move with little notice.
Noted
First Orthodox Scout Liturgy at Philmont Scout Ranch.
But doesn't look Orthodox. Compare with our Polish Orthodox pilgrimage Liturgy in forest:That looks like a beautiful Liturgy, Deacon Lance.
Dominika,
en.wikipedia.org
pl.wikipedia.org
I know perfectly what's skauting, in Polish we call them "harcerze" and there is even group of Polish Orthodox scouts.Dominika,
That does look quite nice; i think the pilgrims became closer to God through their prayers. I know that it looks like it was a pleasant day out.
At the same time, it's not the same. The POC outside liturgy is for all ages (old and young) in a parish; and it's right next to the road (it's pretty clear the icons and tent came there by the van).
The situation Father Deacon Lance presented is at a wilderness area Philmont Scout Ranch*. The participants are young people, as the ranch is for Boy Scouts** on multi-day backpacking trips at the Ranch. In fact, it's possible that liturgy is several km, or maybe even a few hours or days walk on foot from the nearest road.
Anyway, it will inherently not be as big or nice as that POC oudoor liturgy.
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philmont_Scout_Ranch
** Boy Scouts are the American branch of the international youth organization movement, which I assume you're familiar with but am reposting here anyway.
Polish:Scouting - Wikipedia
Skauting – Wikipedia, wolna encyklopedia
byztex.blogspot.com
Ok, thanks for the clarification, but for me until I read the news, it didn't look OrthodoxActually, the picture posted by Dn. Lance is of an Orthodox Liturgy. Here's the link from which the picture was taken:
First Orthodox liturgy performed at Philmont
CIMARRON, NM ( EOCS ) - This summer Orthodox Scouts from in and around Seattle, Washington took an exciting and adventurous trip to Philmont...
Now, why would Orthodox Fr. Koudoukis celebrate a liturgy that's "not Orthodox" using ""a table" that doesn't meet basic requirments for Divine Liturgy and clothes of the believers."??
They're out in the sticks, camping, after all.
See reply #181 above--Dn. Lance even identifies it as an Orthodox liturgy.
Hahaha, hope notDo I detect a modicum of Polish Orthodox ethnophyletism?
So you accuse me of lying about the picture in my post and shrug it off with a wink?Ok, thanks for the clarification, but for me until I read the news, it didn't look Orthodox
Just to give Dominika the benefit of the doubt, I think she may not have seen the post where you said it was an Orthodox liturgy, and because you are Byzantine Catholic and because the "table" wasn't as grand as her Polish "table" she may have just assumed (not usually a wise thing to do) that the picture was of a Byzantine Catholic liturgy.
No, absolutly no. Even don't know, why such thought
This, plus taking into cosinderation the whole thread itself.
Could not any Protestant sect tell this to your Vatican as well?
Don’t know why they would. I have never seen anybody claim Protestant Churches were a bridge.
Anglicans claim they are the via media of Catholic and Evangelical (in the Lutheran/Reformed sense]
Gloria Tibi Trinitas got part of the answer, but your response is odd, given that your OP was claiming that the so called Vatican sui juris churches were NOT a bridge either.
especially in view of the Anglican personal ordinariate (with its married clergy oddly outspoken against married clergy and for mandated clerical celibacy).
They could, as could Jehovah’s Witnesses, or Jews, or anybody really. It comes down to religious freedom and self-determination.
We knew they were bridges to nowhere long before.
Exactly.
