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Identity and background of Eastern Catholics

Serge

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I've heard of the alleged case of the raped nuns in which the sperm are seen as invaders so contraception's surprisingly allowed. I'm not sure that's the case but it's different of course from trying to use sex recreationally or shirking one of the obligations of Christian marriage.

Something is still objectively right even if next to nobody follows it. So it is with Catholic teaching on contraception, which used to be the teaching of all churches.
 

Stinky

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I've heard of the alleged case of the raped nuns in which the sperm are seen as invaders so contraception's surprisingly allowed. I'm not sure that's the case but it's different of course from trying to use sex recreationally or shirking one of the obligations of Christian marriage.

Something is still objectively right even if next to nobody follows it. So it is with Catholic teaching on contraception, which used to be the teaching of all churches.
Sperm has always been invasive, from invasive species. Many women in marriages are raped. Women outside of marriage are raped. Virgins who are not nuns are raped. Whores are raped. Is birth control in these situations ok to protect the victims of everyday war against tyranny of man? This is not the first time in history that women, virgins, or consecrated bodies have been raped, conceived, bore the seed of the rapist, and suckled it on their breasts.
 

Deacon Lance

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If only the position embodied by the antics of Bp(?) Michel d'Herbigne did not undermine your point.
Not sure how the failed efforts of Bishop Michael to support and organize the tiny Russian Greek Catholic Church does that. The Russian Greek Catholic Church was and is no threat to the ROC unless existing is considered a threat.
 
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Sperm has always been invasive, from invasive species. Many women in marriages are raped. Women outside of marriage are raped. Virgins who are not nuns are raped. Whores are raped. Is birth control in these situations ok to protect the victims of everyday war against tyranny of man? This is not the first time in history that women, virgins, or consecrated bodies have been raped, conceived, bore the seed of the rapist, and suckled it on their breasts.
Good thing men don't need contraception, since they never get raped or abused.
 

ialmisry

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Not sure how the failed efforts of Bishop Michael to support and organize the tiny Russian Greek Catholic Church does that. The Russian Greek Catholic Church was and is no threat to the ROC unless existing is considered a threat.
Is heresy and schism ever a threat to the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church?

The imposition of the "New Rite" (i.e. one that conformed to actual Russian Orthodox usage), Latin bishops, mandated celibacy, submission of Met. Sheptytskyi...etc...etc...etc... a "Eastern Catholic Identity" was not on the agenda the Vatican was pushing.
 

ialmisry

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I've heard of the alleged case of the raped nuns in which the sperm are seen as invaders so contraception's surprisingly allowed. I'm not sure that's the case but it's different of course
not from the viewpoint of the conceived. But I would love to see the 'Natural Law" argument.
from trying to use sex recreationally[/]
you mean, "unitively" (to quote the Vatican).
or shirking one of the obligations of Christian marriage.
always interesting how the Vatican makes every joy an "obligation."

The VAST majority of those who use contraceptives have or will have children. I personally do not know any couple that does not. But I do know a few couples who cannot conceive-are they sinning?
Something is still objectively right even if next to nobody follows it.
true, but you have to wonder at celibate group being adamant on something not of their concern, while those concerned say (and do) otherwise. Especially when the former's arguments are specious counting of angels on a pin head.
So it is with Catholic teaching on contraception, which used to be the teaching of all churches.
So you claim, and yet cannot prove. Newman makes the point that Humanae Vitae blesses the one contraception method that ever Church Father that ventured an rigid opinion on the matter (and most were wise not to). Most believed sperm were little men already, sort of like sea monkeys. We know better.

btw, did the Corban factories "used to be the teaching of all Churches"? I notices that you didn't even touch that topic....
 

ialmisry

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Good thing men don't need contraception, since they never get raped or abused.
I know of a court case where the underage boy was raped by his baby sitter and then was in juvenal detention for failure to pay child support, although he, at under 16, could not legally work.
 

hurrrah

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Dominika

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Abp Giorgio Demetrio Gallaro, secretary of the Congregation for the Oriental Churches



 

Dominika

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What is your point here Dominika? It is kind of like a naked link and I do not now why you posted it.
To show that usually Eastern Catholic make variousn ltirugical harrasment, small or bigger. And here it's quite new head of Cativan Congreation responsibel for Eastern Catholics. Those are photos, not naked links (if someboy doesn't see phoot, but naked link, please inform me).
 

Opus118

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To show that usually Eastern Catholic make variousn ltirugical harrasment, small or bigger. And here it's quite new head of Cativan Congreation responsibel for Eastern Catholics. Those are photos, not naked links (if someboy doesn't see phoot, but naked link, please inform me).
Hi Dominka, I see the photo but I do not know what to look at. Is this a vestment issue? He doesn't smile.
 

J Michael

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Here and now (well...sometimes...)
To show that usually Eastern Catholic make variousn ltirugical harrasment, small or bigger. And here it's quite new head of Cativan Congreation responsibel for Eastern Catholics. Those are photos, not naked links (if someboy doesn't see phoot, but naked link, please inform me).
What is "ltirugical harrasment" (sic)? And..."usually...? What is the basis for that?
 

Deacon Lance

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His smile is small but his heart is big. He is a friend and a more down to earth bishop you could not hope to meet.
 

Katechon

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This here is also a classic:

IMG_20220227_185338_769(1).jpg
 

Dominika

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Hi Dominka, I see the photo but I do not know what to look at. Is this a vestment issue? He doesn't smile.
1st photo way of wearing epitrachelion
2nd diesel trikirion
(at least for me, if you think those are ok, what to do to...)
 

J Michael

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Here and now (well...sometimes...)
What, are we now making overgeneralizations about Orthodoxy, Eastern Catholicism, or what-have-you on the basis of a couple of photographs of hierarchs not "smiling"? Seems pretty shallow to me, but....
 

augustin717

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1st photo way of wearing epitrachelion
2nd diesel trikirion
(at least for me, if you think those are ok, what to do to...)
Looks like the little omophorion worn over a polystavrion.
 

Dominika

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Very serious question to full photo - who is this clergy man on the right? Subdeacon? As the way he wears orarion so strange some time ago had discussion about this and nobody couldn't figure out.... Because I know pope Johxn XXIII is wearing mix there: papal fanon and Byzantine sakkos among other stuff.




 

augustin717

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Very serious question to full photo - who is this clergy man on the right? Subdeacon? As the way he wears orarion so strange some time ago had discussion about this and nobody couldn't figure out.... Because I know pope Johxn XXIII is wearing mix there: papal fanon and Byzantine sakkos among other stuff.




That could be a cantor ( but I’m
Not sure) wearing some out of use/antiquarian fashions.
 

Deacon Lance

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1st photo way of wearing epitrachelion
2nd diesel trikirion
(at least for me, if you think those are ok, what to do to...)
1. Small Omophorion not Epitrachelion
2. Oil not diesel.
 

Deacon Lance

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Very serious question to full photo - who is this clergy man on the right? Subdeacon? As the way he wears orarion so strange some time ago had discussion about this and nobody couldn't figure out.... Because I know pope Johxn XXIII is wearing mix there: papal fanon and Byzantine sakkos among other stuff.




Subdeacon, wearing the subdiaconal cincture, which is technically more correct because a council (Laodicea canon 22) forbade orarions to subdeacons.
 
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Dominika

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^^ thank you. Do you have any text, material about this subdiaconal cinture? I've never heard about this, so it's very interesting...
 

Deacon Lance

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^^ thank you. Do you have any text, material about this subdiaconal cinture? I've never heard about this, so it's very interesting...
At this point it is like the little phelonion, fallen out of use. The ordination rite (translated correctly) actually calls it a cincture not an orarion. When they stopped following the canons and using an orarion I don’t now.
 

Dominika

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At this point it is like the little phelonion, fallen out of use. The ordination rite (translated correctly) actually calls it a cincture not an orarion. When they stopped following the canons and using an orarion I don’t now.
Well. little phelonion is used, e.g in Polish Orthodox Church, at ordinations for readers.

Out of curiosity I opened Arabic text for the oridnation of subdeacon, there is written "belt in shape of cross on his chest and on his back" (Al-Afhoulougi al-kabeer, p. 236)
 

Deacon Lance

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Well. little phelonion is used, e.g in Polish Orthodox Church, at ordinations for readers.

Out of curiosity I opened Arabic text for the oridnation of subdeacon, there is written "belt in shape of cross on his chest and on his back" (Al-Afhoulougi al-kabeer, p. 236)
We still use the little phelonion for ordinations too, but it is never worn afterwards.
 

RaphaCam

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I would say millions of people worshipping Jesus Christ and working on their sanctification is an upside. Orthodox (or Latin) triumphalism is something that has no upside.
The upside of apostolic "triumphalism" is preaching the unity of the Church of Christ. A weird thing to hold to in times of pan-ecumenism for outsiders and factionalism against insiders, but it's still what we're meant to do as followers of Christ, his apostles and his Church Fathers.

If one is wrong about it, like we as Orthodox Christians believe Roman Catholic "triumphalists" are, at least they won't muddy the waters and, if they eventually convert to Orthodoxy, they won't have to unlearn indifferentism.

I'm not sending the heterodox to hell, I'm just a proud habitual sinner. I was well catechised into understanding the Church of Christ is visible though.
 

Deacon Lance

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The upside of apostolic "triumphalism" is preaching the unity of the Church of Christ. A weird thing to hold to in times of pan-ecumenism for outsiders and factionalism against insiders, but it's still what we're meant to do as followers of Christ, his apostles and his Church Fathers.

If one is wrong about it, like we as Orthodox Christians believe Roman Catholic "triumphalists" are, at least they won't muddy the waters and, if they eventually convert to Orthodoxy, they won't have to unlearn indifferentism.

I'm not sending the heterodox to hell, I'm just a proud habitual sinner. I was well catechised into understanding the Church of Christ is visible though.
Accept mainstream Orthodoxy doesn’t practice what it preaches so there is nothing to be triumphalist about as the recent episodes in Ukraine and Macedonia show. Churches going into and out communion and schism with one another is hardly the image of visible unity.
 

hurrrah

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13. The triumphant Church
The limits of the Church are not limited to people living on earth. In addition to the earthly Church overcoming evil, the militant Church, the Church of the Saved, there is also a triumphant, heavenly Church. It is one with our earthly one. The Most Holy Theotokos and the Ever-Virgin Mary, St. John the Baptist, the holy Apostles, prophets, martyrs, prelates, venerable, silverless and many other glorified and unglamorous saints belong to the Heavenly Church.
 

Deacon Lance

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You are confusing the Church Triumphant with triumphalism.
 
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