In Defense of IPC Against Irish Hermit's Unwarranted Criticism

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Irish Hermit

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ozgeorge said:
Irish Hermit said:
Father, there is no non-unionist ROCOR jurisdiction "the Russian Zarist Church" so I do not know what or how you have checked.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are googled in your cyberspace.
Have you googled Zarist Church then?  Fr Anastasios says he has checked it out but my Metropolitan says he has not heard of it and it does not exist.   
 

ozgeorge

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Irish Hermit said:
ozgeorge said:
Irish Hermit said:
Father, there is no non-unionist ROCOR jurisdiction "the Russian Zarist Church" so I do not know what or how you have checked.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are googled in your cyberspace.
Have you googled Zarist Church then? 
No, but I'm pretty sure that you have. I'm an oracle you see.

Irish Hermit said:
Fr Anastasios says he has checked it out but my Metropolitan says he has not heard of it and it does not exist.   
My Archbishop didn't know the Synod in Resistance and the Matthewites in Australia were different jurisdictions either. To him they were just "Paleoemerologites". If bishops are not in communion, why would they know about one another?
 

ozgeorge

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Irish Hermit said:
Fr Anastasios says he has checked it out but my Metropolitan says he has not heard of it and it does not exist.   
What exactly are you implying here? Do you think Fr. Anastasios is lying?
 

Irish Hermit

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ozgeorge said:
Irish Hermit said:
ozgeorge said:
Irish Hermit said:
Father, there is no non-unionist ROCOR jurisdiction "the Russian Zarist Church" so I do not know what or how you have checked.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are googled in your cyberspace.
Have you googled Zarist Church then? 
No, but I'm pretty sure that you have.
Months ago, when a member of the Zarist Church first came on the Forum.

Irish Hermit said:
Fr Anastasios says he has checked it out but my Metropolitan says he has not heard of it and it does not exist.
   
My Archbishop didn't know the Synod in Resistance and the Matthewites in Australia were different jurisdictions either. To him they were just "Paleoemerologites". If bishops are not in communion, why would they know about one another?
My Metropolitan is the Primate of the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad and has an intimate and often first-hand knowledge of the ROCOR splinter groups and their bishops.  Prior to becoming Metropolitan he already had an encyclopaedic knowledge of Orthodox vagante groups; it is one of his interests.
 

Irish Hermit

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ozgeorge said:
Irish Hermit said:
Fr Anastasios says he has checked it out but my Metropolitan says he has not heard of it and it does not exist.   
What exactly are you implying here? Do you think Fr. Anastasios is lying?
I would be very surprised if your question about lying were true.  In fact I would be sure it is not.

Perhaps we could politely ask Fr Anastasios to write about what he knows of the Zarist Church.... I do not imagine he has been sworn to secrecy.
 

ozgeorge

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Irish Hermit said:
ozgeorge said:
Irish Hermit said:
ozgeorge said:
Irish Hermit said:
Father, there is no non-unionist ROCOR jurisdiction "the Russian Zarist Church" so I do not know what or how you have checked.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are googled in your cyberspace.
Have you googled Zarist Church then? 
No, but I'm pretty sure that you have.
Months ago, when a member of the Zarist Church first came on the Forum.
Goodness! I am an oracle!
 

ozgeorge

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Irish Hermit said:
Perhaps we could politely ask Fr Anastasios to write about what he knows of the Zarist Church....
Is this "we" the royal plural? You are the only one asking him to do this. Its almost as if you think he is lying.

Irish Hermit said:
ozgeorge said:
Irish Hermit said:
Fr Anastasios says he has checked it out but my Metropolitan says he has not heard of it and it does not exist.   
What exactly are you implying here? Do you think Fr. Anastasios is lying?
I would be very surprised if your question about lying were true.
It's not my question. Its yours. You are the one wanting him to prove what he is saying.
 

Irish Hermit

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ozgeorge said:
Irish Hermit said:
ozgeorge said:
Irish Hermit said:
ozgeorge said:
Irish Hermit said:
Father, there is no non-unionist ROCOR jurisdiction "the Russian Zarist Church" so I do not know what or how you have checked.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are googled in your cyberspace.
Have you googled Zarist Church then? 
No, but I'm pretty sure that you have.
Months ago, when a member of the Zarist Church first came on the Forum.
Goodness! I am an oracle!
Indeed you are!  The Oracle of Oz.
 

Irish Hermit

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ozgeorge said:
Irish Hermit said:
Perhaps we could politely ask Fr Anastasios to write about what he knows of the Zarist Church....
Is this "we" the royal plural? You are the only one asking him to do this.
Then let it be the pluralis modestatis.

Its almost as if you think he is lying.
You seem awfully bent, on trying to get someone to say that the good Father is lying.  Nobody else has said that, and certainly, I do not believe it.
 

ozgeorge

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Irish Hermit said:
I do not imagine he has been sworn to secrecy.
We are all sworn to secrecy about our Communion.
"....for I will not speak of Thy Mysteries to Thy enemies, neither will I give the a kiss as did Judas..."
Perhaps the catacomb Church is in the catacombs for a reason.
 

Irish Hermit

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ozgeorge said:
Irish Hermit said:
I do not imagine he has been sworn to secrecy.
We are all sworn to secrecy about our Communion.
"....for I will not speak of Thy Mysteries to Thy enemies, neither will I give the a kiss as did Judas..."
Perhaps the catacomb Church is in the catacombs for a reason.
I see that the time zone given on IPC's profile places him somewhere in line with the East Coast of South America.   Have there been reports from there of fresh persecution of Christians?  
 

ozgeorge

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Irish Hermit said:
I see that the time zone given on IPC's profile places him somewhere in line with the East Coast of South America.   Have there been reports from there of fresh persecution of Christians?  
Bad detective work. The time zone is defaulted to the location of the server. You have to actually change it in your profile. Be that as it may, what difference does it make where IPC is located? He is being attacked and his Church is being discredited by you anyway. So yes, there are fresh persecutions of Christians where he is.
 

ialmisry

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ozgeorge said:
ialmisry said:
IPC seems able only to tear down all other Orthodoxy, whereas his claim to authority to do so has not been made.
Oh please! Do you really think IPC has torn down Orthodoxy?
Perhaps I should reword: thrown rocks at all other Orthodoxy, against which even the gates of Hell will not tear down.


Do you really think what he says will cause the pillars of the Church to crumble?
His curses on the blessed memory of Pat. Pavle will not touch him whom God has taken to Himself, but God has a definite opinion on those who bad mouth his saints (see Numbers 12), an opinion I share.

And pray tell, who does have any "authority" on this forum to condemn other Orthodox jurisdictions? You? By what "authority" do you do so?
Matthew 18.  I just received that Church's blessing today, from a priest sent by the bishop consecrated by those in succession to those Apostles to whom the Lord spoke those words.  From the information we have on this "Zarist" church, it seems a Protestant self starter.
 

ialmisry

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ozgeorge said:
Irish Hermit said:
I see that the time zone given on IPC's profile places him somewhere in line with the East Coast of South America.   Have there been reports from there of fresh persecution of Christians?  
Bad detective work. The time zone is defaulted to the location of the server. You have to actually change it in your profile. Be that as it may, what difference does it make where IPC is located? He is being attacked and his Church is being discredited by you anyway. So yes, there are fresh persecutions of Christians where he is.
Father Ambrose has been to Communist Europe, and I've been there and in the Muslim world, where there was/is real persecusion.  There is persecusion in the West of traditional Christianity, though I doubt you acknowledge that and IPC hasn't claimed it.  IPC has displayed a martyr's complex, not martyrdom.

Btw, I thinky you down under have caught up with the rest of us, Christ is Born! Glorify Him!
 

ozgeorge

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ialmisry said:
ozgeorge said:
ialmisry said:
IPC seems able only to tear down all other Orthodoxy, whereas his claim to authority to do so has not been made.
Oh please! Do you really think IPC has torn down Orthodoxy?
Perhaps I should reword: thrown rocks at all other Orthodoxy, against which even the gates of Hell will not tear down.
Then what are you worried about?

ialmisry said:
Do you really think what he says will cause the pillars of the Church to crumble?
His curses on the blessed memory of Pat. Pavle will not touch him whom God has taken to Himself, but God has a definite opinion on those who bad mouth his saints (see Numbers 12), an opinion I share.
Oh great! Just what we need. Another one who is convinced he is doing God's work.
IPC stated (in what is now another thread) that he views Patriarch Pavle as an heretic and explained his reasons why.  Be that as it may, this topic is now split off, so you need to keep that conflict within the other thread. There is actually a forum rule about this (see "Contain Conflict" under the forum rules.)

ialmisry said:
And pray tell, who does have any "authority" on this forum to condemn other Orthodox jurisdictions? You? By what "authority" do you do so?
Matthew 18.  I just received that Church's blessing today, from a priest sent by the bishop consecrated by those in succession to those Apostles to whom the Lord spoke those words.  From the information we have on this "Zarist" church, it seems a Protestant self starter.
Actually, I think he means the "Tsarist Church" as in the Church of Russia. This term has been used before:
Eugenio said:
Here's a reference to a "Tsarist Church" which was a museum exhibit in Russia:

http://visualrian.com/images/item/163356

"Tsarist Church. Holy Relics of the Kremlin's Annunciation Cathedral"
ialmisry said:
ozgeorge said:
Irish Hermit said:
I see that the time zone given on IPC's profile places him somewhere in line with the East Coast of South America.   Have there been reports from there of fresh persecution of Christians?  
Bad detective work. The time zone is defaulted to the location of the server. You have to actually change it in your profile. Be that as it may, what difference does it make where IPC is located? He is being attacked and his Church is being discredited by you anyway. So yes, there are fresh persecutions of Christians where he is.
Father Ambrose has been to Communist Europe, and I've been there and in the Muslim world, where there was/is real persecusion.  There is persecusion in the West of traditional Christianity, though I doubt you acknowledge that and IPC hasn't claimed it.  IPC has displayed a martyr's complex, not martyrdom.
Persecution is persecution no matter who the perpetrator is. St. Nektarios was persecuted by his own Church, deposed and rumours spread about him regarding sexual misconduct.

ialmisry said:
Btw, I thinky you down under have caught up with the rest of us, Christ is Born! Glorify Him!
Actually, we are ahead of you in time. You have caught up with us. Theophany was yesterday, its now the Synaxis of the Forerunner here (January 7th).
 

PeterTheAleut

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ialmisry said:
ozgeorge said:
ialmisry said:
IPC seems able only to tear down all other Orthodoxy, whereas his claim to authority to do so has not been made.
Oh please! Do you really think IPC has torn down Orthodoxy?
Perhaps I should reword: thrown rocks at all other Orthodoxy, against which even the gates of Hell will not tear down.
But Jesus did not say that the powers of death would never prevail against some Orthodox jurisdictions while they tear others down.

ialmisry said:
Do you really think what he says will cause the pillars of the Church to crumble?
His curses on the blessed memory of Pat. Pavle will not touch him whom God has taken to Himself, but God has a definite opinion on those who bad mouth his saints (see Numbers 12), an opinion I share.
So IPC has no right to question Patriarch Pavle's sanctity?  Has enough time passed since His Holiness's repose for the Church to properly ascertain his worthiness of glorification?  Yes, I also detest IPC's attacks on the patriarch's memory, but let's not get carried away into rhetoric that implies that His Holiness's sanctity is beyond question.  IPC has posted material to support his accusations of heresy against His Holiness, Patriarch Pavle, and I believe IPC deserves a fair hearing.

ialmisry said:
And pray tell, who does have any "authority" on this forum to condemn other Orthodox jurisdictions? You? By what "authority" do you do so?
Matthew 18.  I just received that Church's blessing today, from a priest sent by the bishop consecrated by those in succession to those Apostles to whom the Lord spoke those words.  From the information we have on this "Zarist" church, it seems a Protestant self starter.
And we have on this forum priests ordained by bishops consecrated by those in succession to the Apostles who have very likely NOT granted you that authority.  Does your priest trump these other priests?
 

Irish Hermit

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ozgeorge said:
Irish Hermit said:
I see that the time zone given on IPC's profile places him somewhere in line with the East Coast of South America.   Have there been reports from there of fresh persecution of Christians?  
Bad detective work. The time zone is defaulted to the location of the server. You have to actually change it in your profile. Be that as it may, what difference does it make where IPC is located? He is being attacked and his Church is being discredited by you anyway. So yes, there are fresh persecutions of Christians where he is.
You said: "Perhaps the catacomb Church is in the catacombs for a reason.

Really, George, I don't think that my questioning of IPC and my defence of my Church and Patriarch against his accusations amount to such a persecutin that I can be credited with driving an entire Church into the catacombs.  At least, I don't myself believe I can be held responsible for the Zarist Church's catacomb existence.  Do any others think I am responsible?  :eek:
 

Irish Hermit

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ozgeorge said:
Actually, I think he means the "Tsarist Church" as in the Church of Russia. This term has been used before:
Eugenio said:
Here's a reference to a "Tsarist Church" which was a museum exhibit in Russia:

http://visualrian.com/images/item/163356

"Tsarist Church. Holy Relics of the Kremlin's Annunciation Cathedral"


The Tsarist Church is the pre-Revolutionary Church of Russia, the Moscow Synodal Church which was ruled not by a Patriarch (he was abolished in 1721 by Tsar Peter) but ruled by a committee of 7 men, one or two bishops, one or two abbots and a few laymen, all appointed by the Tsar and controlled by the Ober-Procurator who was a member of the Tsar's cabinet.

This is most certainly NOT the Zarist Church to which IPC belongs.
 

Heorhij

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If you ask me... in defence of IPC, I can only say that the Moscow Patriarchate was regarded as a splinter "Moscow Patriarchate" (in quotation marks) group by the "Ikumeni" for more than 100 years, until Constantinople fell and it became obvious that the person sitting in the Phanar was no longer telling others what they are and who is who, and until someone paid a certain number of gold and/or silver coins to someone, and, ESPEIALLY, a certain number of Sobol skins to someone... which were even more valuable than the golden coins back then...

This is not to defend the right of this weird "Tsarist Church" to exist, oh no. It's just that the manner, the modus, in which jurisdictions are defined as Orthodox in the past and, alas, the present-day Orthodox Church is... Well...
 

deusveritasest

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Irish Hermit said:
CONTEXT NOTE:  The following discussion started HERE.  - PtA


IPC said:
My piece of advice, repent, and sincerely seek God, and He will surely enlighten you and then, you will see. This is goes to all of you.
This is a rather blatant invitation (a piece of proselytism really) to the Orthodox to leave their Church and move elsewhere.  IPC, you ought to be informed that this is an Orthodox Forum.  I do not think that the Orthodox appreciate anybody coming here and telling them to move to another Church.  By all means provide us with information about the Russian Zarist Church (which I assume is not Orthodox since "Orthodox" does not occur in its name) but please do not invite us to pray and repent and leave our Church.  That is what the Mormons tell us to do.
Why should we be afraid of someone trying to draw us to their church which they are convinced that it is the One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic and Orthodox Church of Christ and which very well may be so on an objective level?
 

Second Chance

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Irish Hermit said:
ozgeorge said:
Irish Hermit said:
I see that the time zone given on IPC's profile places him somewhere in line with the East Coast of South America.   Have there been reports from there of fresh persecution of Christians?  
Bad detective work. The time zone is defaulted to the location of the server. You have to actually change it in your profile. Be that as it may, what difference does it make where IPC is located? He is being attacked and his Church is being discredited by you anyway. So yes, there are fresh persecutions of Christians where he is.
You said: "Perhaps the catacomb Church is in the catacombs for a reason.

Really, George, I don't think that my questioning of IPC and my defence of my Church and Patriarch against his accusations amount to such a persecutin that I can be credited with driving an entire Church into the catacombs.  At least, I don't myself believe I can be held responsible for the Zarist Church's catacomb existence.  Do any others think I am responsible?   :eek:
I think Peter and George are making a mountain out of a mole hill. Freedom of expression does not mean freedom from criticism, even if such criticism is extreme. There is no question that IPC tends to write inflammatory and extremely offensive (to me at least) posts. Father Ambrose had the right as another poster to condemn IPC's post. He did NOT call for the administrators to censor and expel IPC. I have no idea where Peter and George get their justification to jump on Father Ambrose (and Isa) at the earliest opportunity but they do. BTW, I am not talking about Peter and George as current and former administrators but fellow posters. It just completely blows my mind why Peter and George are so nit picky with everything that Father Ambrose and Isa (and Gebre, to think of it) say. It is not as if Peter and George, like many of us, do not have strong opinions. I just don't get it.
 

deusveritasest

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Irish Hermit said:
I think this interpretation of IPC's word is not what he wanted to tell us.  He simply wanted to say that if we repented and prayed about our Church membership the Lord will show us that we the Orthodox are in heresy and He will lead us to the True Church.
Close, but not quite. He wouldn't say that the Orthodox are in heresy. Rather, he would say that you're not Orthodox.
 

ozgeorge

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Irish Hermit said:
ozgeorge said:
Actually, I think he means the "Tsarist Church" as in the Church of Russia. This term has been used before:
Eugenio said:
Here's a reference to a "Tsarist Church" which was a museum exhibit in Russia:

http://visualrian.com/images/item/163356

"Tsarist Church. Holy Relics of the Kremlin's Annunciation Cathedral"


The Tsarist Church is the pre-Revolutionary Church of Russia, the Moscow Synodal Church which was ruled not by a Patriarch (he was abolished in 1721 by Tsar Peter) but ruled by a committee of 7 men, one or two bishops, one or two abbots and a few laymen, all appointed by the Tsar and controlled by the Ober-Procurator who was a member of the Tsar's cabinet.

This is most certainly NOT the Zarist Church to which IPC belongs.
Well he certainly seems to disagree with you and thinks he belongs to a continuation of the Tsarist, Patriarch-less Russian Church. A sedevacantist if you will.
 

Irish Hermit

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ozgeorge said:
  Be that as it may, this topic is now split off, so you need to keep that conflict within the other thread. There is actually a forum rule about this (see "Contain Conflict" under the forum rules.)
Quite right, George.  The topic of this thread is "In Defence of IPC"  so all those who are oposed to IPC should shut up.  They are off topic.

This thread is for those defending IPC. 
 

deusveritasest

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ialmisry said:
Irish Hermit said:
IPC said:
Thank you for waking the beast Peter! sheesh heheheheheh

On the 11th day of xmas my true love gave to me, another sergianist attack from Irish Hermit.
Sergianism.... are you saying that an Orthodox priest is infected with heresy?  It kind of eludes me why you say that it is an attempt at humour.  The Russian Churcvh Abroad has always looked upon Sergianism with great alarm.


Sergianism
Sergianism is somewhat more nuanced as a heresy, and finds its origin in the capitulation of Metropolitan Sergius in 1927 to the Soviet state, during which he publicly associated the "sorrows" of the anti-Christian authorities with the suffering of the Church. A definition for Sergianism is at times difficult to clarify, but it has been best defined as the Church submitting to the worldly authorities for the sake of its own survival.

http://trueorthodox.freehostia.com/index.html
I'm afraid that the Zarist Church was Segian ever since Peter I.  So that would leave IPC utterly without grace.
Or ever since Chalcedon.
 

ozgeorge

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Irish Hermit said:
ozgeorge said:
  Be that as it may, this topic is now split off, so you need to keep that conflict within the other thread. There is actually a forum rule about this (see "Contain Conflict" under the forum rules.)
Quite right, George.   The topic of this thread is "In Defence of IPC"  so all those who are oposed to IPC should shut up.  They are off topic.

This thread is for those defending IPC. 
Please, by all means, feel free to attack IPC and his church in this thread. Just don't bring in conflicts from other threads. Having trouble containing conflict Irish Hermit? Try a rubber band around your wrist and flick it every time you get the urge.
 

PeterTheAleut

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Second Chance said:
Irish Hermit said:
ozgeorge said:
Irish Hermit said:
I see that the time zone given on IPC's profile places him somewhere in line with the East Coast of South America.   Have there been reports from there of fresh persecution of Christians?  
Bad detective work. The time zone is defaulted to the location of the server. You have to actually change it in your profile. Be that as it may, what difference does it make where IPC is located? He is being attacked and his Church is being discredited by you anyway. So yes, there are fresh persecutions of Christians where he is.
You said: "Perhaps the catacomb Church is in the catacombs for a reason.

Really, George, I don't think that my questioning of IPC and my defence of my Church and Patriarch against his accusations amount to such a persecutin that I can be credited with driving an entire Church into the catacombs.  At least, I don't myself believe I can be held responsible for the Zarist Church's catacomb existence.  Do any others think I am responsible?   :eek:
I think Peter and George are making a mountain out of a mole hill. Freedom of expression does not mean freedom from criticism, even if such criticism is extreme. There is no question that IPC tends to write inflammatory and extremely offensive (to me at least) posts.
And I have already advised IPC to expect harsh criticism if he's going to have the gall to accuse our bishops of heresy.  I'm not going to defend him against criticism I deem warranted.  In fact, I've criticized the idiocy, harsh tone, and borderline-slanderous content of many of his posts myself, so I don't think I'm employing a double standard here.

Second Chance said:
Father Ambrose had the right as another poster to condemn IPC's post. He did NOT call for the administrators to censor and expel IPC. I have no idea where Peter and George get their justification to jump on Father Ambrose (and Isa) at the earliest opportunity but they do. BTW, I am not talking about Peter and George as current and former administrators but fellow posters. It just completely blows my mind why Peter and George are so nit picky with everything that Father Ambrose and Isa (and Gebre, to think of it) say. It is not as if Peter and George, like many of us, do not have strong opinions. I just don't get it.
Evidence that there's more to these scenarios than your eyes can see. ;)
 

ozgeorge

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Second Chance said:
It just completely blows my mind why Peter and George are so nit picky with everything that Father Ambrose and Isa (and Gebre, to think of it) say.
I don't know about Peter, but I enjoy ruffling all your feathers. :)
 

Irish Hermit

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ozgeorge said:
Please, by all means, feel free to attack IPC and his church in this thread.
I am amazed that you are encouraging off topic postings.  I remember your days as a Mod when you sent me several green ink messages and punishments for taking threads off topic.

If anything this thread should be expanded, if Schultz agrees, to a discussion of the defence, as a Forum principle, of any anonymous person signing up on the Forum and sending messages critical of the Orthodox Church.  What do you think?   Should this be a special privilege of IPC alone or should all members be allowed to follow his example?

Don't get me wrong.  In defence of IPC I am sure that in his home environment he or she is warm and cuddly.   But here on the Forum we seem to knock sparks off him.  Not his fault at all.
 

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Irish Hermit said:
If anything this thread should be expanded, if Schultz agrees, to a discussion of the defence, as a Forum principle, of any anonymous person signing up on the Forum and sending messages critical of the Orthodox Church.
IPC thinks he belongs to the only Church which is the Orthodox Church. That's what you have to deal with.

Irish Hermit said:
Should this be a special privilege of IPC alone or should all members be allowed to follow his example?
By all means, feel free to attack the Orthodox Church and to publicly slander her Bishops.....oh wait....

Irish Hermit said:
Don't get me wrong.  In defence of IPC I am sure that in his home environment he or she is warm and cuddly.   But here on the Forum we seem to knock sparks off him.  Not his fault at all.
I have no idea what you are saying here.
 

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ozgeorge said:
IPC thinks he belongs to the only Church which is the Orthodox Church. That's what you have to deal with.
Perhaps there is another thread for that or one could be created?  On this thread the topic is DEFENCE of IPC. 

You have drawn our attention to the Forum Rules regarding conflict containment.  This thread is not for conflict but for the defence of IPC.
 

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Irish Hermit said:
ozgeorge said:
IPC thinks he belongs to the only Church which is the Orthodox Church. That's what you have to deal with.
Perhaps there is another thread for that or one could be created?  On this thread the topic is DEFENCE of IPC.  

You have drawn our attention to the Forum Rules regarding conflict containment.  This thread is not for conflict but for the defence of IPC.
I can change this thread's title to make it clear that your attacks on IPC are the reason others are standing up to defend him. ;)  In fact, why don't I just go ahead and do that.  Everybody hold on for a second.  This ride may get a bit bumpy. ;D
 

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PeterTheAleut said:
Irish Hermit said:
ozgeorge said:
IPC thinks he belongs to the only Church which is the Orthodox Church. That's what you have to deal with.
Perhaps there is another thread for that or one could be created?  On this thread the topic is DEFENCE of IPC.  

You have drawn our attention to the Forum Rules regarding conflict containment.  This thread is not for conflict but for the defence of IPC.
I can change this thread's title to make it clear that your attacks on IPC are the reason others are standing up to defend him. ;)  In fact, why don't I just go ahead and do that.  Everybody hold on for a second.  This ride may get a bit bumpy. ;D
There! 8)  Fixed that problem. ;D
 

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PeterTheAleut said:
I can change this thread's title to make it clear that your attacks on IPC are the reason others are standing up to defend him. ;)
The man has launched several heavy artillery attacks on two of my Patriarchs.  Do you really think I am going to sit here, on an Orthodox Forum, and smile at him while he bombards them.  The attacking is initiated from IPC's corner.
 

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Irish Hermit said:
PeterTheAleut said:
I can change this thread's title to make it clear that your attacks on IPC are the reason others are standing up to defend him. ;)
The man has launched several heavy artillery attacks on two of my Patriarchs.  Do you really think I am going to sit here, on an Orthodox Forum, and smile at him while he bombards them.
Maybe you should. ;)  Why do they need you to defend them?
 

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Irish Hermit said:
ozgeorge said:
IPC thinks he belongs to the only Church which is the Orthodox Church. That's what you have to deal with.
Perhaps there is another thread for that or one could be created?  On this thread the topic is DEFENCE of IPC. 

You have drawn our attention to the Forum Rules regarding conflict containment.  This thread is not for conflict but for the defence of IPC.
You have misunderstood in your over excitement. Read again. You said:
Irish Hermit said:
If anything this thread should be expanded, if Schultz agrees, to a discussion of the defence, as a Forum principle, of any anonymous person signing up on the Forum and sending messages critical of the Orthodox Church.
To which I replied:
ozgeorge said:
IPC thinks he belongs to the only Church which is the Orthodox Church. That's what you have to deal with.
What I'm saying is that IPC's position is that his Church is the Orthodox Church, and not yours and not mine. If you want to counter what IPC is saying, you have to question that premise of his. Otherwise, all you end up with is the following:
"We're Orthodox and you're not"
"No we're Orthodox and you're not"
"No we're Orthodox and you're not"
"No we're Orthodox and you're not"
"No we're Orthodox and you're not"......

I was actually offering you a tip.

 

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PeterTheAleut said:
Maybe you should. ;)  Why do they need you to defend them?
Right! but do you consider it in order for IPC to attack them?

The thread title has been changed to now attack me, accusing me of "unwarranted" criticism of IPC!    Are IPC's attacks on Patriarch Kirill and the late Patriarch Pavle warranted?  Since this thread is for the defence of IPC I would welcome defence of his attacks on the Patriarchs.

Hieromonk Ambrose
Russian Orthodox Church (Abroad)
 

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ozgeorge said:
Irish Hermit said:
ozgeorge said:
IPC thinks he belongs to the only Church which is the Orthodox Church. That's what you have to deal with.
Perhaps there is another thread for that or one could be created?  On this thread the topic is DEFENCE of IPC.  

You have drawn our attention to the Forum Rules regarding conflict containment.  This thread is not for conflict but for the defence of IPC.
You have misunderstood in your over excitement. Read again. You said:
Irish Hermit said:
If anything this thread should be expanded, if Schultz agrees, to a discussion of the defence, as a Forum principle, of any anonymous person signing up on the Forum and sending messages critical of the Orthodox Church.
To which I replied:
ozgeorge said:
IPC thinks he belongs to the only Church which is the Orthodox Church. That's what you have to deal with.
What I'm saying is that IPC's position is that his Church is the Orthodox Church, and not yours and not mine. If you want to counter what IPC is saying, you have to question that premise of his. Otherwise, all you end up with is the following:
"We're Orthodox and you're not"
"No we're Orthodox and you're not"
"No we're Orthodox and you're not"
"No we're Orthodox and you're not"
"No we're Orthodox and you're not"......

I was actually offering you a tip.
Thanks.  I don't do tips. :laugh:

But why should I agree with your assesment of "You're Orthodox, no we are" when I consulted my Metropolitan and was told there is no "Russian Zarist Church."  If you are in doubt, consult your own Church authorities.

In defence of IPC, we would indeed say that he is mighty sincere in his beliefs.
 
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