In Defense of IPC Against Irish Hermit's Unwarranted Criticism

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PeterTheAleut

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Irish Hermit said:
PeterTheAleut said:
Since I've been talking a bit about the administration and moderation of this forum, let me ask you this.  If the statement is "official", what authority does it have over this forum?
The Apostle says to us: "Remember those who rule over you, who have spoken the word of God to you."  Hebrews 13:17.  Whether Orthodox Christians who are involved with Internet Forums are exempt from Saint Paul's instructions is something we would need to discuss with our bishops.  If one of my parishioners were to ask my advice I would say that we must be obedient to the teachings of the Apostles and their successors irrespective of venue.
But you do realize how many different jurisdictions are represented on this forum, even among the admin/moderator team?  Why should Orthodox of one jurisdiction recognize as authoritative the mandate laid down by the bishop(s) of another with which they may not even be in communion?  Would you rather this forum fall under the oversight of one synod--I presume one of your choosing--thus making OC.net merely an extension of that synod's jurisdiction?  How many of us would then leave for finding the forum too exclusive?  The beauty of this forum, IMO, is that it is NOT dependent upon the authority of any one bishop or synod of bishops--we enjoy an independence that makes us truly representative of the whole of Orthodox Christianity.
 

Irish Hermit

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PeterTheAleut said:
Irish Hermit said:
PeterTheAleut said:
Since I've been talking a bit about the administration and moderation of this forum, let me ask you this.  If the statement is "official", what authority does it have over this forum?
The Apostle says to us: "Remember those who rule over you, who have spoken the word of God to you."  Hebrews 13:17.  Whether Orthodox Christians who are involved with Internet Forums are exempt from Saint Paul's instructions is something we would need to discuss with our bishops.  If one of my parishioners were to ask my advice I would say that we must be obedient to the teachings of the Apostles and their successors irrespective of venue.
But you do realize how many different jurisdictions are represented on this forum, even among the admin/moderator team?  Why should Orthodox of one jurisdiction recognize as authoritative the mandate laid down by the bishop(s) of another with which they may not even be in communion?  Would you rather this forum fall under the oversight of one synod--I presume one of your choosing--thus making OC.net merely an extension of that synod's jurisdiction?  How many of us would then leave for finding the forum too exclusive?  The beauty of this forum, IMO, is that it is NOT dependent upon the authority of any one bishop or synod of bishops--we enjoy an independence that makes us truly representative of the whole of Orthodox Christianity.
My quarrel is not with the Byzantine Orthodox, the Oriental Orthodox, the Church of the East or the True Old Orthodox.  It is with the member of the Zarist Church whose every posting and every thread started by him is destructive of Orthodoxy especially of either the Russian Orthodox Church of which I am a member or the Serbian Orthodox Church of which I was a member most of my life.
 

ialmisry

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PeterTheAleut said:
Irish Hermit said:
PeterTheAleut said:
Since I've been talking a bit about the administration and moderation of this forum, let me ask you this.  If the statement is "official", what authority does it have over this forum?
The Apostle says to us: "Remember those who rule over you, who have spoken the word of God to you."  Hebrews 13:17.  Whether Orthodox Christians who are involved with Internet Forums are exempt from Saint Paul's instructions is something we would need to discuss with our bishops.  If one of my parishioners were to ask my advice I would say that we must be obedient to the teachings of the Apostles and their successors irrespective of venue.
But you do realize how many different jurisdictions are represented on this forum, even among the admin/moderator team?  Why should Orthodox of one jurisdiction recognize as authoritative the mandate laid down by the bishop(s) of another with which they may not even be in communion?  Would you rather this forum fall under the oversight of one synod--I presume one of your choosing--thus making OC.net merely an extension of that synod's jurisdiction?  How many of us would then leave for finding the forum too exclusive?  The beauty of this forum, IMO, is that it is NOT dependent upon the authority of any one bishop or synod of bishops--we enjoy an independence that makes us truly representative of the whole of Orthodox Christianity.
World Orthodoxy?
 

ialmisry

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Irish Hermit said:
PeterTheAleut said:
Irish Hermit said:
PeterTheAleut said:
Since I've been talking a bit about the administration and moderation of this forum, let me ask you this.  If the statement is "official", what authority does it have over this forum?
The Apostle says to us: "Remember those who rule over you, who have spoken the word of God to you."  Hebrews 13:17.  Whether Orthodox Christians who are involved with Internet Forums are exempt from Saint Paul's instructions is something we would need to discuss with our bishops.  If one of my parishioners were to ask my advice I would say that we must be obedient to the teachings of the Apostles and their successors irrespective of venue.
But you do realize how many different jurisdictions are represented on this forum, even among the admin/moderator team?  Why should Orthodox of one jurisdiction recognize as authoritative the mandate laid down by the bishop(s) of another with which they may not even be in communion?  Would you rather this forum fall under the oversight of one synod--I presume one of your choosing--thus making OC.net merely an extension of that synod's jurisdiction?  How many of us would then leave for finding the forum too exclusive?  The beauty of this forum, IMO, is that it is NOT dependent upon the authority of any one bishop or synod of bishops--we enjoy an independence that makes us truly representative of the whole of Orthodox Christianity.
My quarrel is not with the Byzantine Orthodox, the Oriental Orthodox, the Church of the East or the True Old Orthodox.  It is with the member of the Zarist Church whose every posting and every thread started by him is destructive of Orthodoxy especially of either the Russian Orthodox Church of which I am a member or the Serbian Orthodox Church of which I was a member most of my life.
We have yet, as far as I have seen, seen any proof that this "Zarist Orthodox Church" is Orthodox at all.  This is in contrast, for instance, with Fr. Ambrose, Fr. Cleveland, Fr. Anastosios, etc.  We know who is Salpy's Catholicos, we know who Ekhsristos Anesti's Pope is.  But it seems this "Zarist" church has a decidely Protestant make up, and hence, not Orthodox at all.
 

PeterTheAleut

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Irish Hermit said:
PeterTheAleut said:
Irish Hermit said:
PeterTheAleut said:
Since I've been talking a bit about the administration and moderation of this forum, let me ask you this.  If the statement is "official", what authority does it have over this forum?
The Apostle says to us: "Remember those who rule over you, who have spoken the word of God to you."  Hebrews 13:17.  Whether Orthodox Christians who are involved with Internet Forums are exempt from Saint Paul's instructions is something we would need to discuss with our bishops.  If one of my parishioners were to ask my advice I would say that we must be obedient to the teachings of the Apostles and their successors irrespective of venue.
But you do realize how many different jurisdictions are represented on this forum, even among the admin/moderator team?  Why should Orthodox of one jurisdiction recognize as authoritative the mandate laid down by the bishop(s) of another with which they may not even be in communion?  Would you rather this forum fall under the oversight of one synod--I presume one of your choosing--thus making OC.net merely an extension of that synod's jurisdiction?  How many of us would then leave for finding the forum too exclusive?  The beauty of this forum, IMO, is that it is NOT dependent upon the authority of any one bishop or synod of bishops--we enjoy an independence that makes us truly representative of the whole of Orthodox Christianity.
My quarrel is not with the Byzantine Orthodox, the Oriental Orthodox, the Church of the East or the True Old Orthodox.  It is with the member of the Zarist Church whose every posting and every thread started by him is destructive of Orthodoxy especially of either the Russian Orthodox Church of which I am a member or the Serbian Orthodox Church of which I was a member most of my life.
Yes, I know.  But why would you suggest that the Forum should formally embrace an official definition of Orthodoxy and the Church that would in essence permit us to silence any poster you deem a threat?
 

Tamara

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PeterTheAleut said:
But you do realize how many different jurisdictions are represented on this forum, even among the admin/moderator team?  Why should Orthodox of one jurisdiction recognize as authoritative the mandate laid down by the bishop(s) of another with which they may not even be in communion?  Would you rather this forum fall under the oversight of one synod--I presume one of your choosing--thus making OC.net merely an extension of that synod's jurisdiction?  How many of us would then leave for finding the forum too exclusive?  The beauty of this forum, IMO, is that it is NOT dependent upon the authority of any one bishop or synod of bishops--we enjoy an independence that makes us truly representative of the whole of Orthodox Christianity.
Hmmm...I don't think anyone wants OC.net to fall under one jurisdiction of bishops. But the type you have placed in bold sounds almost like a protestant form of independence. So no priest who comes to this forum has a right to warn others when wolves come on the forum to confuse the faithful? That sounds a little like censorship to me.
This site already has enough atheists on it who have confused Orthodox inquirers to join them.
 

PeterTheAleut

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ialmisry said:
Irish Hermit said:
PeterTheAleut said:
Irish Hermit said:
PeterTheAleut said:
Since I've been talking a bit about the administration and moderation of this forum, let me ask you this.  If the statement is "official", what authority does it have over this forum?
The Apostle says to us: "Remember those who rule over you, who have spoken the word of God to you."  Hebrews 13:17.  Whether Orthodox Christians who are involved with Internet Forums are exempt from Saint Paul's instructions is something we would need to discuss with our bishops.  If one of my parishioners were to ask my advice I would say that we must be obedient to the teachings of the Apostles and their successors irrespective of venue.
But you do realize how many different jurisdictions are represented on this forum, even among the admin/moderator team?  Why should Orthodox of one jurisdiction recognize as authoritative the mandate laid down by the bishop(s) of another with which they may not even be in communion?  Would you rather this forum fall under the oversight of one synod--I presume one of your choosing--thus making OC.net merely an extension of that synod's jurisdiction?  How many of us would then leave for finding the forum too exclusive?  The beauty of this forum, IMO, is that it is NOT dependent upon the authority of any one bishop or synod of bishops--we enjoy an independence that makes us truly representative of the whole of Orthodox Christianity.
My quarrel is not with the Byzantine Orthodox, the Oriental Orthodox, the Church of the East or the True Old Orthodox.  It is with the member of the Zarist Church whose every posting and every thread started by him is destructive of Orthodoxy especially of either the Russian Orthodox Church of which I am a member or the Serbian Orthodox Church of which I was a member most of my life.
We have yet, as far as I have seen, seen any proof that this "Zarist Orthodox Church" is Orthodox at all.  This is in contrast, for instance, with Fr. Ambrose, Fr. Cleveland, Fr. Anastosios, etc.  We know who is Salpy's Catholicos, we know who Ekhsristos Anesti's Pope is.  But it seems this "Zarist" church has a decidely Protestant make up, and hence, not Orthodox at all.
Yes, that disturbs me as well.  I do wish that IPC would just tell us what his jurisdiction is, who his bishop is, just as a common courtesy to those who would like to know.  I find it unsettling that he would make such a point of hiding behind the veil of anonymity as he has.  However, until he does tell us more about his church, all we have is his claim that he is Orthodox.  I am therefore inclined to grant him the benefit of the doubt and assume that he is a member of a traditionalist Orthodox jurisdiction at enmity with Moscow as he says he is, and I recommend that you do the same.
 

PeterTheAleut

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Tamara said:
PeterTheAleut said:
But you do realize how many different jurisdictions are represented on this forum, even among the admin/moderator team?  Why should Orthodox of one jurisdiction recognize as authoritative the mandate laid down by the bishop(s) of another with which they may not even be in communion?  Would you rather this forum fall under the oversight of one synod--I presume one of your choosing--thus making OC.net merely an extension of that synod's jurisdiction?  How many of us would then leave for finding the forum too exclusive?  The beauty of this forum, IMO, is that it is NOT dependent upon the authority of any one bishop or synod of bishops--we enjoy an independence that makes us truly representative of the whole of Orthodox Christianity.
Hmmm...I don't think anyone wants OC.net to fall under one jurisdiction of bishops. But the type you have placed in bold sounds almost like a protestant form of independence.
How so?

Tamara said:
So no priest who comes to this forum has a right to warn others when wolves come on the forum to confuse the faithful? That sounds a little like censorship to me.
But this isn't about a priest warning others of the "wolves" in our midst, Tamara.  This is about one priest's apparent desire to see someone censored as a threat to his established order.

Tamara said:
This site already has enough atheists on it who have confused Orthodox inquirers to join them.
So are you suggesting that we should silence all atheists?
 

ozgeorge

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Tamara said:
This site already has enough atheists on it who have confused Orthodox inquirers to join them.
Thats a pretty hefty claim. Can you back it up?
Who, apart from GiC claims to be an atheist? And who has joined him?

Tamara said:
So no priest who comes to this forum has a right to warn others when wolves come on the forum to confuse the faithful?
Why do you need a priest to do it? Are they oracles or something? This is a discussion forum. If someone makes a false claim, someone quotes the Fathers to point out the error. It doesn't have to be a Priest. You have to get over this guru worship thing.
 

Anastasios

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As I've stated before, last time I checked, IPC was under one of the bishops of a non-unionist ROCOR jurisdiction. As to why he doesn't just come out and say which jurisdiction that is and who his bishop is, is something he can best explain himself.
 

ozgeorge

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Fr. Anastasios said:
As I've stated before, last time I checked, IPC was under one of the bishops of a non-unionist ROCOR jurisdiction. As to why he doesn't just come out and say which jurisdiction that is and who his bishop is, is something he can best explain himself.
Ooo! Ooo! Can I hazard a guess as to why he doesn't say it himself? Because of the very types of attacks he's received from posters on the forum because of his jurisdiction, including attempts to discredit him because of it.
 

Irish Hermit

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PeterTheAleut said:
Irish Hermit said:
PeterTheAleut said:
Irish Hermit said:
PeterTheAleut said:
Since I've been talking a bit about the administration and moderation of this forum, let me ask you this.  If the statement is "official", what authority does it have over this forum?
The Apostle says to us: "Remember those who rule over you, who have spoken the word of God to you."  Hebrews 13:17.  Whether Orthodox Christians who are involved with Internet Forums are exempt from Saint Paul's instructions is something we would need to discuss with our bishops.  If one of my parishioners were to ask my advice I would say that we must be obedient to the teachings of the Apostles and their successors irrespective of venue.
But you do realize how many different jurisdictions are represented on this forum, even among the admin/moderator team?  Why should Orthodox of one jurisdiction recognize as authoritative the mandate laid down by the bishop(s) of another with which they may not even be in communion?  Would you rather this forum fall under the oversight of one synod--I presume one of your choosing--thus making OC.net merely an extension of that synod's jurisdiction?  How many of us would then leave for finding the forum too exclusive?  The beauty of this forum, IMO, is that it is NOT dependent upon the authority of any one bishop or synod of bishops--we enjoy an independence that makes us truly representative of the whole of Orthodox Christianity.
My quarrel is not with the Byzantine Orthodox, the Oriental Orthodox, the Church of the East or the True Old Orthodox.  It is with the member of the Zarist Church whose every posting and every thread started by him is destructive of Orthodoxy especially of either the Russian Orthodox Church of which I am a member or the Serbian Orthodox Church of which I was a member most of my life.
Yes, I know.  But why would you suggest that the Forum should formally embrace an official definition of Orthodoxy and the Church that would in essence permit us to silence any poster you deem a threat?
Dear Peter,

I have not suggested anything of the sort.  I heartily dislike IPC's unrelenting campaign against the Orthodox Church on the world's largest Orthodox Forum.  One or two anti-Orthodox messages would be acceptable but a flood of them....?  They cause scandal, they harm the weaker brethren, they cause confusion among those enquiring into the Faith.

 

ialmisry

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PeterTheAleut said:
ialmisry said:
Irish Hermit said:
PeterTheAleut said:
Irish Hermit said:
PeterTheAleut said:
Since I've been talking a bit about the administration and moderation of this forum, let me ask you this.  If the statement is "official", what authority does it have over this forum?
The Apostle says to us: "Remember those who rule over you, who have spoken the word of God to you."  Hebrews 13:17.  Whether Orthodox Christians who are involved with Internet Forums are exempt from Saint Paul's instructions is something we would need to discuss with our bishops.  If one of my parishioners were to ask my advice I would say that we must be obedient to the teachings of the Apostles and their successors irrespective of venue.
But you do realize how many different jurisdictions are represented on this forum, even among the admin/moderator team?  Why should Orthodox of one jurisdiction recognize as authoritative the mandate laid down by the bishop(s) of another with which they may not even be in communion?  Would you rather this forum fall under the oversight of one synod--I presume one of your choosing--thus making OC.net merely an extension of that synod's jurisdiction?  How many of us would then leave for finding the forum too exclusive?  The beauty of this forum, IMO, is that it is NOT dependent upon the authority of any one bishop or synod of bishops--we enjoy an independence that makes us truly representative of the whole of Orthodox Christianity.
My quarrel is not with the Byzantine Orthodox, the Oriental Orthodox, the Church of the East or the True Old Orthodox.  It is with the member of the Zarist Church whose every posting and every thread started by him is destructive of Orthodoxy especially of either the Russian Orthodox Church of which I am a member or the Serbian Orthodox Church of which I was a member most of my life.
We have yet, as far as I have seen, seen any proof that this "Zarist Orthodox Church" is Orthodox at all.  This is in contrast, for instance, with Fr. Ambrose, Fr. Cleveland, Fr. Anastosios, etc.  We know who is Salpy's Catholicos, we know who Ekhsristos Anesti's Pope is.  But it seems this "Zarist" church has a decidely Protestant make up, and hence, not Orthodox at all.
Yes, that disturbs me as well.  I do wish that IPC would just tell us what his jurisdiction is, who his bishop is, just as a common courtesy to those who would like to know.  I find it unsettling that he would make such a point of hiding behind the veil of anonymity as he has.  However, until he does tell us more about his church, all we have is his claim that he is Orthodox.  I am therefore inclined to grant him the benefit of the doubt and assume that he is a member of a traditionalist Orthodox jurisdiction at enmity with Moscow as he says he is, and I recommend that you do the same.
Uh, no.
I understand why you might be so inclined/have to be so inclined on this/moderating this board to not dealve too deeply at the bald claim "Orthodox," but the rule has always been on Baptism, Marriage, Ordination, Consecration etc. don't assume, some proof must be provided.

One can be a traditionalist Orthodox jurisdiction against the PoM, as several of the ROCORettes show, but they actually have bishops etc. who stick their faces out and say their piece against the PoM accusing him of cowing to the authorities.  But bishops, if they exist, cowering from non-existent persecusion (as is the case in the West) in the dark while they accuse the bishops who carried the burden of millions of souls-and lives-under the Soviets...such are not worthy of any credence.

And somehow Fr. Anastasios manages to present his case without banging the same note, and defend/present Orthodoxy as he sees it without harping on Orthodox who disagree.  IPC seems able only to tear down all other Orthodoxy, whereas his claim to authority to do so has not been made.
 

Irish Hermit

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PeterTheAleut said:
But this isn't about a priest warning others of the "wolves" in our midst, Tamara.
That is however how I see it.

This is about one priest's apparent desire to see someone censored as a threat to his established order.
An incorrect understanding of my motivation.    Please look in my previous messages.

P.S.  Do you perceive the Zarists as a threat to the established order of the Russian Orthoodx Church?  In what way?
 

ozgeorge

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ialmisry said:
IPC seems able only to tear down all other Orthodoxy, whereas his claim to authority to do so has not been made.
Oh please! Do you really think IPC has torn down Orthodoxy? Do you really think what he says will cause the pillars of the Church to crumble? And pray tell, who does have any "authority" on this forum to condemn other Orthodox jurisdictions? You? By what "authority" do you do so?
 

Irish Hermit

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Fr. Anastasios said:
As I've stated before, last time I checked, IPC was under one of the bishops of a non-unionist ROCOR jurisdiction.
Father, there is no non-unionist ROCOR jurisdiction "the Russian Zarist Church" so I do not know what or how you have checked.
 

ozgeorge

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Irish Hermit said:
Father, there is no non-unionist ROCOR jurisdiction "the Russian Zarist Church" so I do not know what or how you have checked.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are googled in your cyberspace.
 

Irish Hermit

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ozgeorge said:
And pray tell, who does have any "authority" on this forum to condemn other Orthodox jurisdictions?
A priest most certainly has the authority, and the duty, to uphold the Orthodox Churches (jurisdictions as the Americans say) and to point out the dangers to the faithful when the integrity of the Church is attacked, more so when the purpose of the attack is to weaken and destroy faith in the Church.

This thread commences with an attack on my Patriarch in a statement issued by 3 or 4 bishops of a Church of which I have never heard.  Should a priest smile and roll over?  Allow his Patriarch to be denigrated?
 

Asteriktos

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Tamara,

This site already has enough atheists on it who have confused Orthodox inquirers to join them.
I don't know if you were partly thinking of me when you said this, but since GiC is the only other regular poster I know who has claimed to be an atheist over the past half dozen years, I'll say a few things just in case. I became an atheist in early Jan. of 2006. It was not because of the influence of any atheists, and certainly none here on OC.net, that this happened, and I believe this predated GiC's own turn towards atheism. Since around May of 2008, I have not identified as an atheist. Since then I've sometimes identified as agnostic, sometimes deist, sometimes Orthodox, and sometimes I'm not sure, but whatever the case, not atheist. And if it puts your mind at ease any, during my time here, no one has contacted me and said something like "I think I'm gonna consider becoming an atheist now". Some members here have indeed left Orthodoxy, but I think GiC is the only regular member or even newbie inquirer who has become and remained an atheist, and even in his case I very much doubt that anyone here led him into it or confused him.
 
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