• For users new and old: the forum rules were streamlined when we transitioned to the new software. Please ensure that you are familiar with them. Continued use of the forum means that you (a) know the rules, and (b) pledge that you'll abide by them. For more information, check out the OrthodoxChristianity.Net Rules section. (There are only 2 threads there - Rules, and Administrative Structure.)

Initiative to exclude abortion from system of medical insurance is rejected

mike

Protostrator
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Messages
24,873
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
30
Location
Białystok / Warsaw
http://www.pravoslavie.ru/english/99371.htm said:
The expert working group at the federal level headed by Minister Mikhail Abyzov has rejected an initiative, put forward in the form of a petition, whose authors proposed to exclude abortion from the system of Compulsory Medical Insurance with the exception of certain medical indications.

According to a spokesman of Interfax, members of the expert group turned down the petition by a majority vote...
 

mike

Protostrator
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Messages
24,873
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
30
Location
Białystok / Warsaw
RaphaCam said:
This is sad, I thought the prospective for criminalisation of abortion in Russia were more positive.
I have no idea where you take your impressions about Russia from.
 

mike

Protostrator
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Messages
24,873
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
30
Location
Białystok / Warsaw
RaphaCam said:
As you know, there's a vocal pro-life movement in Russia, supported by the Orthodox Church, and both Medvedev and Putin have signed laws damaging the abortion industry one way or another.
The fact they are vocal in Western-directed media does not correspond with having real influence in Russia.
 

IreneOlinyk

High Elder
Joined
Sep 28, 2009
Messages
902
Reaction score
4
Points
18
RaphaCam said:
This is sad, I thought the prospective for criminalisation of abortion in Russia were more positive.
You do know that Russia has one of the highest rates of abortion in the world right?
 

RaphaCam

Patriarch of Trashposting
Joined
Oct 22, 2015
Messages
8,736
Reaction score
147
Points
63
Age
23
Location
Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
Website
em-espirito-e-em-verdade.blogspot.com
IreneOlinyk said:
RaphaCam said:
This is sad, I thought the prospective for criminalisation of abortion in Russia were more positive.
You do know that Russia has one of the highest rates of abortion in the world right?
You do know what "prospective" means, right?
 

mike

Protostrator
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Messages
24,873
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
30
Location
Białystok / Warsaw
Svartzorn said:
Just give it time. It has gotten a lot better.
Yeah. They don't do abortions for a few days around Easter in some places. That's better a lot.

Everyone knows abortiosn not on Easter are much less sinful.
 
Joined
May 6, 2014
Messages
2,354
Reaction score
3
Points
38
mike said:
Svartzorn said:
Just give it time. It has gotten a lot better.
Yeah. They don't do abortions for a few days around Easter in some places. That's better a lot.

Everyone knows abortiosn not on Easter are much less sinful.
OK Mike but what Poland doing these days, didn't Poland try to stop Abortions then had to back track over feminist protesters?
 

mike

Protostrator
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Messages
24,873
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
30
Location
Białystok / Warsaw
seekeroftruth777 said:
mike said:
Svartzorn said:
Just give it time. It has gotten a lot better.
Yeah. They don't do abortions for a few days around Easter in some places. That's better a lot.

Everyone knows abortiosn not on Easter are much less sinful.
OK Mike but what Poland doing these days, didn't Poland try to stop Abortions then had to back track over feminist protesters?
I can't call that much of trying. I do not believe they wanted to ban abortions in all cases. They are not that stupid and know the public opinion.

What they did was a try to please the anti-abortion groups by showing they try to do something but it backfired at them as they did not succeed in that and received massive negative reaction from the other side.

And it wasn't just feminist who were protesting. The protests were pretty from all the entire spectrum of the society.
 
Joined
May 6, 2014
Messages
2,354
Reaction score
3
Points
38
mike said:
seekeroftruth777 said:
mike said:
Svartzorn said:
Just give it time. It has gotten a lot better.
Yeah. They don't do abortions for a few days around Easter in some places. That's better a lot.

Everyone knows abortiosn not on Easter are much less sinful.
OK Mike but what Poland doing these days, didn't Poland try to stop Abortions then had to back track over feminist protesters?
I can't call that much of trying. I do not believe they wanted to ban abortions in all cases. They are not that stupid and know the public opinion.

What they did was a try to please the anti-abortion groups by showing they try to do something but it backfired at them as they did not succeed in that and received massive negative reaction from the other side.

And it wasn't just feminist who were protesting. The protests were pretty from all the entire spectrum of the society.
Fair enough, then would you concede at least the R.O.C. at least have been trying to ban abortions in Russia, the public attitude a far cry from the 90's when abortions were horribly high. Not to say there aren't Issues in Russia BTW, including neo-sovietism.
 

mike

Protostrator
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Messages
24,873
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
30
Location
Białystok / Warsaw
seekeroftruth777 said:
mike said:
seekeroftruth777 said:
mike said:
Svartzorn said:
Just give it time. It has gotten a lot better.
Yeah. They don't do abortions for a few days around Easter in some places. That's better a lot.

Everyone knows abortiosn not on Easter are much less sinful.
OK Mike but what Poland doing these days, didn't Poland try to stop Abortions then had to back track over feminist protesters?
I can't call that much of trying. I do not believe they wanted to ban abortions in all cases. They are not that stupid and know the public opinion.

What they did was a try to please the anti-abortion groups by showing they try to do something but it backfired at them as they did not succeed in that and received massive negative reaction from the other side.

And it wasn't just feminist who were protesting. The protests were pretty from all the entire spectrum of the society.
Fair enough, then would you concede at least the R.O.C. at least have been trying to ban abortions in Russia, the public attitude a far cry from the 90's when abortions were horribly high. Not to say there aren't Issues in Russia BTW, including neo-sovietism.
The ROCs tries to ban abortions more-less with equeal effort as the Catholic Church in Poland - they do not care much. The difference being the situation in Russia is worse by one or two levels of magnitude.
 

Svartzorn

High Elder
Joined
Jan 4, 2016
Messages
761
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
31
Location
Brasília/DF, Brazil
mike said:
Svartzorn said:
Just give it time. It has gotten a lot better.
Yeah. They don't do abortions for a few days around Easter in some places. That's better a lot.

Everyone knows abortiosn not on Easter are much less sinful.
Just check the figures I posted in this forum the last time you were on your diatribe around this subject.
I'm not giving you any space for this nonsense again. Less babies are being killed, and thank God for that.

Svartzorn: You should be aware that profanity of any kind is not permitted in the public forum.  In the religious topics forum, you have also recently used a word that is not that well known in the Americas but is well known as a profanity in Britain:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,67352.msg1434467.html#msg1434467

In addition, your reaction to Mike's post is worded in such a way as to almost forbid him to voice his opinion.  This is not the first time you have replied to Mike in an inappropriate or borderline inappropriate fashion.  For this reason, I am upgrading your warning to 30 %.  All of your posts will have to be approved by a moderator for a time before they appear on the board.

Pravoslavbob, Non-religious Topics Moderator
 

mike

Protostrator
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Messages
24,873
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
30
Location
Białystok / Warsaw
Svartzorn said:
mike said:
Svartzorn said:
Just give it time. It has gotten a lot better.
Yeah. They don't do abortions for a few days around Easter in some places. That's better a lot.

Everyone knows abortiosn not on Easter are much less sinful.
Just check the figures I posted in this forum the last time you were on your diatribe around this subject.
I'm not giving you any space for this nonsense again. Less babies are being killed, and thank God for that.
So where are those links?
 

Iconodule

Hoplitarches
Joined
Jan 2, 2010
Messages
16,486
Reaction score
10
Points
38
Age
38
Location
PA, USA
Svartzorn said:
mike said:
Svartzorn said:
Just give it time. It has gotten a lot better.
Yeah. They don't do abortions for a few days around Easter in some places. That's better a lot.

Everyone knows abortiosn not on Easter are much less sinful.
Just check the figures I posted in this forum the last time you were on your diatribe around this subject.
I'm not giving you any space for this nonsense again. Less babies are being killed, and thank God for that.
Contraceptives are more widely available.
 

Svartzorn

High Elder
Joined
Jan 4, 2016
Messages
761
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
31
Location
Brasília/DF, Brazil
mike said:
Svartzorn said:
mike said:
Svartzorn said:
Just give it time. It has gotten a lot better.
Yeah. They don't do abortions for a few days around Easter in some places. That's better a lot.

Everyone knows abortiosn not on Easter are much less sinful.
Just check the figures I posted in this forum the last time you were on your diatribe around this subject.
I'm not giving you any space for this nonsense again. Less babies are being killed, and thank God for that.
So where are those links?
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,69964.msg1426438.html#msg1426438
 

juliogb

High Elder
Joined
Jan 14, 2015
Messages
976
Reaction score
6
Points
0
I was negatively surprised to see all those people in Poland protesting in favor of abortion, so shamefull to see that.
 

Iconodule

Hoplitarches
Joined
Jan 2, 2010
Messages
16,486
Reaction score
10
Points
38
Age
38
Location
PA, USA
Mor Ephrem said:
America evil, Russia eviler.  Orthodoxy evil, Catholicism eviler.  America evil, Russia eviler.  Russia evil.  Bad.  Evil.
Have you been eating cabbage?
 

mike

Protostrator
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Messages
24,873
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
30
Location
Białystok / Warsaw
Svartzorn said:
mike said:
Svartzorn said:
mike said:
Svartzorn said:
Just give it time. It has gotten a lot better.
Yeah. They don't do abortions for a few days around Easter in some places. That's better a lot.

Everyone knows abortiosn not on Easter are much less sinful.
Just check the figures I posted in this forum the last time you were on your diatribe around this subject.
I'm not giving you any space for this nonsense again. Less babies are being killed, and thank God for that.
So where are those links?
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,69964.msg1426438.html#msg1426438
So in a country with free abortions on demand 1 in 3 pregnancies end in abortions (at least officially). I agree it is better than 2 in 3 than it used to be but still France or the UK in your links have 1 in 5. And France does not claim it's the beacon of Christian morality.

juliogb said:
I was negatively surprised to see all those people in Poland protesting in favor of abortion, so shamefull to see that.
They were protesting not in favour of dying from pregnancies having no chance of succeeding. There is a difference.
 

Iconodule

Hoplitarches
Joined
Jan 2, 2010
Messages
16,486
Reaction score
10
Points
38
Age
38
Location
PA, USA
mike said:
Svartzorn said:
mike said:
Svartzorn said:
mike said:
Svartzorn said:
Just give it time. It has gotten a lot better.
Yeah. They don't do abortions for a few days around Easter in some places. That's better a lot.

Everyone knows abortiosn not on Easter are much less sinful.
Just check the figures I posted in this forum the last time you were on your diatribe around this subject.
I'm not giving you any space for this nonsense again. Less babies are being killed, and thank God for that.
So where are those links?
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,69964.msg1426438.html#msg1426438
So in a country with free abortions on demand 1 in 3 pregnancies end in abortions (at least officially). I agree it is better than 2 in 3 than it used to be but still France or the UK in your links have 1 in 5. And France does not claim it's the beacon of Christian morality.
The other question is, Why are abortions declining? Has the birth rate increased in the same proportion?
 

mike

Protostrator
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Messages
24,873
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
30
Location
Białystok / Warsaw
Iconodule said:
The other question is, Why are abortions declining? Has the birth rate increased in the same proportion?
I just compared the numbers of pregnancies ending in abortion. One can speculate about reasons.
 

Svartzorn

High Elder
Joined
Jan 4, 2016
Messages
761
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
31
Location
Brasília/DF, Brazil
mike said:
Svartzorn said:
mike said:
Svartzorn said:
mike said:
Svartzorn said:
Just give it time. It has gotten a lot better.
Yeah. They don't do abortions for a few days around Easter in some places. That's better a lot.

Everyone knows abortiosn not on Easter are much less sinful.
Just check the figures I posted in this forum the last time you were on your diatribe around this subject.
I'm not giving you any space for this nonsense again. Less babies are being killed, and thank God for that.
So where are those links?
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,69964.msg1426438.html#msg1426438
So in a country with free abortions on demand 1 in 3 pregnancies end in abortions (at least officially). I agree it is better than 2 in 3 than it used to be but still France or the UK in your links have 1 in 5. And France does not claim it's the beacon of Christian morality.
So that's your problem with the russians? That they are claiming they are a beacon of christian morallity?
You know, ideologies are fine and all, but we should first and foremost pay attention to the actual effects of those ideologies.
In this particular case, it's proven that abortion rates are plummeting. Why not commemorate that?
 
Joined
May 6, 2014
Messages
2,354
Reaction score
3
Points
38
Svartzorn said:
mike said:
Svartzorn said:
mike said:
Svartzorn said:
mike said:
Svartzorn said:
Just give it time. It has gotten a lot better.
Yeah. They don't do abortions for a few days around Easter in some places. That's better a lot.

Everyone knows abortiosn not on Easter are much less sinful.
Just check the figures I posted in this forum the last time you were on your diatribe around this subject.
I'm not giving you any space for this nonsense again. Less babies are being killed, and thank God for that.
So where are those links?
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,69964.msg1426438.html#msg1426438
So in a country with free abortions on demand 1 in 3 pregnancies end in abortions (at least officially). I agree it is better than 2 in 3 than it used to be but still France or the UK in your links have 1 in 5. And France does not claim it's the beacon of Christian morality.
So that's your problem with the russians? That they are claiming they are a beacon of christian morallity?
You know, ideologies are fine and all, but we should first and foremost pay attention to the actual effects of those ideologies.
In this particular case, it's proven that abortion rates are plummeting. Why not commemorate that?
I don't think he will commemorate anything Russian to be honest, Polish people, and Russian people distrust is similar to the distrust India, and Pakistan or Israel, and Palestinians, etc.
 

Alxandra

OC.Net Guru
Joined
Jul 29, 2014
Messages
1,078
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
25
“For I have no name to give it, since it does not take off the thing born, but prevents its being born. Why then dost thou abuse the gift of God, and fight with His laws, and follow after what is a curse as if a blessing, and make the chamber of procreation a chamber for murder, and arm the woman that was given for childbearing unto slaughter?”
Saint John Chrysostom on Abortion


"A woman who destroys the fruit of her womb commits a great sin. She is destroying life itself, for God alone is the Giver of life and He makes possible the conception of a human being in the womb. He gives life and a woman destroys it. Great repentance is necessary, from the depths of her soul. She must change and never commit this sin again. Otherwise, she will be condemned as a murderess. True and sincere repentance is required for such a sin, and it must never be repeated again.

Elder Thaddeus of Vitovnica
 

mike

Protostrator
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Messages
24,873
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
30
Location
Białystok / Warsaw
seekeroftruth777 said:
I don't think he will commemorate anything Russian to be honest, Polish people, and Russian people distrust is similar to the distrust India, and Pakistan or Israel, and Palestinians, etc.
Don't slander me.
 
Joined
May 6, 2014
Messages
2,354
Reaction score
3
Points
38
mike said:
seekeroftruth777 said:
I don't think he will commemorate anything Russian to be honest, Polish people, and Russian people distrust is similar to the distrust India, and Pakistan or Israel, and Palestinians, etc.
Don't slander me.
Practice what your preach, you slander the ROC.
 

mike

Protostrator
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Messages
24,873
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
30
Location
Białystok / Warsaw
seekeroftruth777 said:
mike said:
seekeroftruth777 said:
I don't think he will commemorate anything Russian to be honest, Polish people, and Russian people distrust is similar to the distrust India, and Pakistan or Israel, and Palestinians, etc.
Don't slander me.
Practice what your preach, you slander the ROC.
What false insulting statements about ROC I posted in this thread (or anywhere on the forum)?
 
Joined
May 6, 2014
Messages
2,354
Reaction score
3
Points
38
mike said:
seekeroftruth777 said:
mike said:
seekeroftruth777 said:
mike said:
Svartzorn said:
Just give it time. It has gotten a lot better.
Yeah. They don't do abortions for a few days around Easter in some places. That's better a lot.

Everyone knows abortiosn not on Easter are much less sinful.
OK Mike but what Poland doing these days, didn't Poland try to stop Abortions then had to back track over feminist protesters?
I can't call that much of trying. I do not believe they wanted to ban abortions in all cases. They are not that stupid and know the public opinion.

What they did was a try to please the anti-abortion groups by showing they try to do something but it backfired at them as they did not succeed in that and received massive negative reaction from the other side.

And it wasn't just feminist who were protesting. The protests were pretty from all the entire spectrum of the society.
Fair enough, then would you concede at least the R.O.C. at least have been trying to ban abortions in Russia, the public attitude a far cry from the 90's when abortions were horribly high. Not to say there aren't Issues in Russia BTW, including neo-sovietism.
The ROCs tries to ban abortions more-less with equeal effort as the Catholic Church in Poland - they do not care much. The difference being the situation in Russia is worse by one or two levels of magnitude.
Let's see Mike, it slander to accuse the Church of not caring too much when in fact the ROC been at the forefront of trying to ban Abortions, they care very much.
 

mike

Protostrator
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Messages
24,873
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
30
Location
Białystok / Warsaw
seekeroftruth777 said:
Let's see Mike, it slander to accuse the Church of not caring too much when in fact the ROC been at the forefront of trying to ban Abortions, they care very much.
But it's true. signing a petition is not much. If they believed that is one of the most important issues they would for example threat to excomunnicate all politicians that would not vote in favour of limiting abortions (if I'm  not mistaken  some  Catholic bishops in Murica did that). That would be doing something real. But it's not going to happen. Let's sign another petition!
 

Iconodule

Hoplitarches
Joined
Jan 2, 2010
Messages
16,486
Reaction score
10
Points
38
Age
38
Location
PA, USA
From WWII we hear about courageous Orthodox Christians, including hierarchs, monastics, laypeople, standing up against mass murder, saving Jews, and sometimes suffering martyrdom for it. Now imagine if, instead of those inspiring stories, the best we could come up with was, "Well, they wrote petitions and tried to get some laws passed." And when other people asked them, "Why aren't you doing more?" the response would be, "These things take time, it's getting better!"
 

Svartzorn

High Elder
Joined
Jan 4, 2016
Messages
761
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
31
Location
Brasília/DF, Brazil
I know there's a historical feud between the polish and the russians, but I didn't want to accuse mike of being a russophobe based on that.
 

mike

Protostrator
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Messages
24,873
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
30
Location
Białystok / Warsaw
Svartzorn said:
I know there's a historical feud between the polish and the russians, but I didn't want to accuse mike of being a russophobe based on that.
I was insulted with an accusation of being a Pole. And I am a Russophobe. That's what a sane person on this side of the Atlantic is supposed to be.
 

Alpo

Merarches
Joined
Dec 9, 2007
Messages
9,878
Reaction score
2
Points
0
mike said:
seekeroftruth777 said:
Let's see Mike, it slander to accuse the Church of not caring too much when in fact the ROC been at the forefront of trying to ban Abortions, they care very much.
But it's true. signing a petition is not much. If they believed that is one of the most important issues they would for example threat to excomunnicate all politicians that would not vote in favour of limiting abortions (if I'm  not mistaken  some  Catholic bishops in Murica did that). That would be doing something real. But it's not going to happen. Let's sign another petition!
+1

Abortion is a sin. A very serious for that matter. If we take it seriously we'd at least punish polticians for voting for it.
 
Top