- Jan 15, 2005
- Reaction score
Why doesn't everybody just ask their own priest?
I understand exactly what your saying but in my mind i can't seperate frequent and recieving unprepared ....im used to week preperation for the Holy Gifts maybe 4 or 5 times a year..that how i was raised...taughtozgeorge said:You seem to miss the point also. No one is suggesting that we receive Communion unprepared. What we are discussing here is what is the ancient tradition of the Orthodox Church, and the ancient tradition of the Orthodox Church is frequent Communion.stashko said:i rather take Holy communion Once or twice or four times a year worthily than approach every sunday unworthily.....some orthodox churches are following the latin example of monthly confession as well .....people can fall into a trap thinking there sins are tiny minor and they approach holy communion unconfessed....
bstaining from Communion is not a "pious" practice, but a superstition which damages our spiritual health.
The Fathers of the Holy Mountain have tried to reintroduce this ancient tradition:ozgeorge said:
" Indeed, the Kollyvades Fathers, who advocated a return to frequent communion, were regarded as dangerous innovators in the face of such unenlightened customs passing as tradition, when in fact they were simply pleading for a restoration of the age-old practice of the Church."
Source "A Traditionalist Critique of The Orthodox Church"- Heromonk Patapios
It is not "Orthodox" to abstain from Communion.
Those of us who support frequent communion are trying to get to the point where people are living their lives as best they can, always being prepared not only for communion, but for the dread Judgment Day. We're striving for general holiness, not an intense burst a few times per year; we want to try and be holy just as He is Holy, asking Him to perfect our imperfect actions and intentions, and pleading that He accept our meager sacrifice as worthy of Him out of His compassion and mercy for us, not out of the inherent worthiness (which is zero) of the offering.stashko said:I understand exactly what your saying but in my mind i can't seperate frequent and recieving unprepared ....im used to week preperation for the Holy Gifts maybe 4 or 5 times a year..that how i was raised...taught
Father bless!Irish Hermit said:Thank you, Elpidophoros, it is useful to know the actual practices (3 days fast) of the parish to which you belong? I guess it is a Greek parish?
Historically the obligation was to attend church every week, no matter what church. Even if one didn't partake, one attended; and from medieval times on, most people came, but most people didn't partake. In other words, most people came to seem communion offered. One even finds RC manuals stating that the job of the laity in the liturgy was to watch.ytterbiumanalyst said:New? I seem to remember St. Paul saying, "As often as you meet together." Now, perhaps you want to argue that people did not meet together weekly before 1950. Even if that were true (and I'm not convinced it is), communing weekly would still not be a new practice, because then people have always communed as often as they met together. The only thing which has changed is that automobile ownership has allowed many more people to come to church and commune more frequently.Irish Hermit said:The new practice of weekly Communion is only a few decades old. It is too early to see what the final fruits of it will be.
Well, isn't the word "ecclesiastical" itself a Greek word? Derived from εκκλησία (ekklesia), which is Greek for "church". I imagine, then, that most of the words we deem ecclesiastical are Greek in origin.Elpidophoros said:
They're ecclesiastical if there's no English word that's equivalent or refers to the same thing; they're Greek if there is.Elpidophoros said:
Exactly. If we are not prepared for Holy Communion, then we are not prepared to face the Dreadful Judgement Seat of Christ either.cleveland said:Those of us who support frequent communion are trying to get to the point where people are living their lives as best they can, always being prepared not only for communion, but for the dread Judgment Day.
I don't think it's as simple as that. This is not about "different practices" which no doubt obviously exist, what it is about is: "what is the teaching of the Orthodox Church? Does the Church advocate frequent Communion or infrequent Communion?" If a week's fasting is a "requirement" then clearly, to Commune weekly would require the Faithful to perpetualy fast (which is actually forbidden by the Church). Such practices as requiring a week of fasting before Communion are innovations and not the original practice of the Orthodox Church.Quinault said:I thought you had to have approval from your priest and approval of the priest at the parish you visit in order to have communion. If that is the case wouldn't you ask what the requirements are for a given parish and follow them? It seems like an issue of respect to me. I don't take off my shoes as I enter my house. But I have friends that do so at their homes. So when I visit their house I take off my shoes as I enter. But that doesn't mean that I have to change my practice at my own home.
Actually, no. For example:Elpidophoros said:
Yes, it is understood that when we say "abstaining from meat" it includes all the foods which are lower on the Fasting triangle.frost said:Actually, xerophagia (literally; dry eating) means more than abstaining from meat. It means observing the entire fasting discipline, abstaining from meat, fish, eggs, dairy, wine and oil.
These were not customs which resulted from the Synodal period in Russia. Russia simply shared the universal customs of the Orthodox Churches.frost said:The fact is that many of the customs received from the Synodal period of the Russian church are defective, and were due to the civil government interference in the life of the church.
Not sure how that would be implemented? During the period when I was a young monk I attended Liturgy every day. Likewise many people, especially the retired people, came to daily Liturgy at the monastery or at the parish churches. It seems a bit mean to have asked these pious daily attenders (not to mention the monks and nuns, and the bishop in attendance in the Altar every morning) to leave the church at the start of the Anaphora!!frost said:We might also consider Our Lord's own words addressed to us in every Liturgy:
Piete ex aftou, pantes .... Piite ot neia, Vsii.......Drink of this, All of you
Note:` Our Lord said "All of You" not some of you !
The fact is that until later centuries, those who did not commune were required to leave the church with the penitents and catachumens.
I thought wine and oil is allowed on Saturday in observance of the sabbath. ???Irish Hermit said:Yes, it is understood that when we say "abstaining from meat" it includes all the foods which are lower on the Fasting triangle.frost said:Actually, xerophagia (literally; dry eating) means more than abstaining from meat. It means observing the entire fasting discipline, abstaining from meat, fish, eggs, dairy, wine and oil.
1. Meat, milk, eggs
3. Wine and oil