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isn't a God man a contradiction in terms?

muskogee22

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You can't even read the Greek text, let alone understand it, its context and layering. The early Fathers spent centuries explaining and commentating. Go back to your Arabic classes and leave the NT alone.
scholars are of the unanimous conclusion that the greek text is heavily tampered with.you should have read the article I posted.the earliest greek manuscripts differ from each other heavily.
 

Samn!

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scholars are of the unanimous conclusion that the greek text is heavily tampered with.you should have read the article I posted.the earliest greek manuscripts differ from each other heavily.
Some random article, written in bad faith by a Muslim apologist, is hardly an expression of scholarly consensus. The type of variation that exists naturally through manuscript transmission of any text isn't the same as tampering.
 
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scholars are of the unanimous conclusion that the greek text is heavily tampered with.you should have read the article I posted.the earliest greek manuscripts differ from each other heavily.
Your “scholars” are unanimous; scholars in general have different opinions. You fail at the source & all writings we will appeal to for reference are allegedly unreliable because your “scholars” say so. Just a big catch 22 scam.
 

melkite

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If Allah can define something is morally acceptable one day, and then decide the next that it is now an abomination (or vice versa), then certainly it is not impossible, under that logic, for God to also be a man.
 

muskogee22

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this thread has gone off a tangent,the big question is:are divine and human natures mutually opposing or mutually in harmony?if the former,how can they exist in one person simultanuesly if at all?

none of you have really argued against this.
 

muskogee22

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Icons are instrumental in educating the illiterate population about the bible. They serve as a depicted story through imagery.
the issue isn't icons in and of themselves,the issue is veneration of them.that was taboo in the early church.
 

Arachne

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the issue isn't icons in and of themselves,the issue is veneration of them.that was taboo in the early church.
No.

(I recommend the entire series, but this part, which is also the longest, is the more substantial.)
 

Luke

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No.

(I recommend the entire series, but this part, which is also the longest, is the more substantial.)
Excellent information!
 
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this thread has gone off a tangent,the big question is:are divine and human natures mutually opposing or mutually in harmony?if the former,how can they exist in one person simultanuesly if at all?

none of you have really argued against this.
Because there are two natures that are hypostatically united.
 
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It is the work of God Himself as a living icon in which the first Christians worshiped Him. Mary Magdalene & another Mary worshiped the Lord ( Matthew 28:9). The 11 disciples later worshiped the risen Lord ( Matthew 28:17) but some doubted. This was a difficult thing to grasp in light of not worshiping a graven image. This would take time to be fully understood; St. Paul’s affirmation in Colossians 1:15 testifies of the Orthodox worship by the 2 Marys & that the doubts of some of the 11 disciples had to be overcome.

This matter remains unsettled among many non Orthodox Christians to this day.
 

Tzimis

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the issue isn't icons in and of themselves,the issue is veneration of them.that was taboo in the early church.
It depends on the person. Some people do take things to the extreme, but the majority know the difference between an icon and the actual person depicted. And yet,
Don't think for one minute though, that god doesn't use objects in the movement of energies. Read mark 5:21-34
Where healing came from touching Christ's garment.
Energies do flow through objects.
 

Tzimis

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exactly,but there is no division,mixing or alteration.one hypostasis two mutually opposing natures simultanouesly.this is impossible.
Its not impossible. The formula works and just because you don't see it, isn't a reason to negate it.
 

muskogee22

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Its not impossible. The formula works and just because you don't see it, isn't a reason to negate it.
see the post above you.you cannot be a square and circle at the same time.
 

Tzimis

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see the post above you.you cannot be a square and circle at the same time.
Using those terms are excessive. lets use it a different way. If you become infected with covid, do you say that you have covid or do you say you have been attacked by millions of viruses?
 
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xariskai

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a unconditioned reality cannot be present in time or space.
There are many things that could be said about your posts -and thank you for sharing here- but first and foremost I would submit that differing starting points concerning the nature of God are more germane here than differing conclusions about His Presence vis a vis time, space, and matter. For example in contrast to your posited unconditioned reality which cannot be present in time or space we Orthodox Christians speak of God as "everywhere present, filling all things."

Orthodox Christians, in contradistiction to many Islamic and Western Christian theologians, affirm on the basis of revelation and experience that God is present to time and space, via the divine energies.

In reply to your post above I would firstly submit:

If your reality cannot be present in time and space it cannot be Omnipresent.
If your reality is limited from time and space -it cannot be Unlimited.
On your view insofar as your presence is in time and space there literally is no God with you
(we would affirm, rather, that God is actually closer to you, whether Muslim or Christian or something else, than your own skin).
On your view you are "separated" from a purported omnipresent being, which constitutes an oxymoron, a violation of Aristotle's Law of Non-Contradiction mentioned previously in the thread.

A god who is not omnipresent is not something we can accept as a premise or a presupposition. The God of the Jews and of the Christians is omnipresent.

"Behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.” -Matthew 28:20
"Behold, I am with you and will keep you wherever you go..." -Genesis 28:15
"Surely the Lord is in this place and I did not know it" -Genesis 28:16
"You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know..." -John 4:22

The holy prophet David described his Experience of God's presence in the Psalms (Zabur):
"Where can I go from Your Spirit? Or where can I flee from Your presence? If I ascend into heaven, You are there. If I make my bed in sheol, behold, You are there. If I take the wings of the morning and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea, even there Your hand shall lead me, and Your right hand shall hold me." -Psalm 139:7-10

One of the names of God in the Hebrew Old Testament is Yahweh-Shammah, meaning the Lord is Present.

If your god is ontologically separated from you and/or cannot be present to your finite materiality he is too small to save you where you are. He is not infinitely present /unlimited /omnipresent -but something absent somewhere; what is absent somewhere cannot be an omnipresent God.
Further I would submit that it is this very philosophically tainted view of god that has contributed to the cultural phenomenon described by academics as "the death of God" as much as any other epistemological factor that might be named. Naturally the conclusion of the impossibility via limiting the infinite God such that He is not being able to be present to finite reality would follow from the presupposition you stated (and everywhere presuppose), but not only is there is no good reason for an Orthodox Christian to suppose such a premise is correct, it itself violates the law of non-contradiction you also alluded to by positing at the same time an unlimited and omnipresent god who cannot be present somewhere.

If anyone is interested to suggest to an Orthodox Christian that the nature of God should lead them to some particular conclusion on the basic of some sort of logical syllogism it would be necessary to first employ a premise not so alien to an Orthodox Christian understanding of the nature of God as beginning with "the God who is not here." Toward that end the following article by our Metropolitan Kallistos (PhD Oxford) would form a great starting point: https://katachriston.wordpress.com/2011/08/16/who-or-what-is-god/ At the same time it is equally important to know that our primary touchstone is not philosophical theology or exegesis; rather for us:
"All true Orthodox theology is mystical; just as mysticism divorced from theology becomes subjective and heretical, so theology, when it is not mystical, degenerates into an arid scholasticism, 'academic' in the bad sense of the word. Doctrine cannot be understood unless it is prayed: a theologian, said Evagrius, is one who knows how to pray, and he who prays in spirit and in truth is by the very act a theologian. And doctrine, if it is to be prayed must also be lived; theology without action, as St. Maximus put it, is the theology of demons. The Creed belongs only to those who live it..." (Kallistos Ware, The Orthodox Church, p. 207).
 
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FULK NERA

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scholars are of the unanimous conclusion that the greek text is heavily tampered with.you should have read the article I posted.the earliest greek manuscripts differ from each other heavily.
This is an abuse of the forum, not a serious argument but a straw man fallacy.
 
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