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John 17 :3 where Jesus says the father is the only true God.

muskogee22

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The trinitarian reply to this is that the trinity as a whole is the only true God,so all three are the only true God.but then they say that each is fully and truly God and deny partialism as a heresy(also divine simplicity wich can be proven logically is against God having parts).

why not just take Jesus' words at face value?
 

sestir

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As a former Semi-arian it was painful for me to hear fellow Semi-arians talk about how the Holy Spirit was a powerful force in their life and to watch a congregation which used to be rather balanced on the Trinity-Unity scale, go fully Arian and ridicule clues which could have helped them understand. Too much Trinitarianism is bad too, but it seems more convenient to teach Trinity to a newbie, as they will have to treat all three persons with respect and not claim them as their own personal property. ^^
Eventually, they will understand spiritual matters with an exactness which cannot be expressed in human language.
 
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John 1:1-3, John 14:9-11, John 14:15-20, John 14:26, John 14:28, John 15:26, John 16:7-16 etc.


Then read all of John 1, 14, 15, & 16 & then read
Colossians 1:15-18

The eternal, begotten Son honors (His)the Eternal unoriginate Father, the Father from whom the eternal Holy Spirit proceeds.
 

TheTrisagion

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Mark 10:18 - So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God.

Should we also take this at face value and accept that Jesus isn't good, or perhaps understand that context is beneficial?
 

Asteriktos

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Following St. Gregory the Theologian, I think it's fair to speak of a gradual revealing of God to the majority/general populace. So in the Old Testament period Israel was broken of its desire for many gods and taught to worship the true God. Then during the life of Jesus His identity was knowable for those who sought Him with faith and an open heart and willingness to seek/ask/knock, but His identity was obscured to those (like Satan) who were blinded by evil intentions. At that point even the Apostles still needed nudges and guidance to truly understand from time to time. Because a lot of the material in the synoptics are a straight report rather than theology it doesn't always beat you over the head with the divinity of Christ, but it's still there to see. Then during the Apostolic period the faith came to be fully and openly revealed to the world and spread, with the Church being built on the foundation of the Apostles and prophets and Jesus as the cornerstone (Eph. 2:20). The most relevant passage from St. Gregory is:

"The Old Testament proclaimed the Father openly, and the Son more obscurely. The New manifested the Son, and suggested the Deity of the Spirit. Now the Spirit Himself dwells among us, and supplies us with a clearer demonstration of Himself. For it was not safe, when the Godhead of the Father was not yet acknowledged, plainly to proclaim the Son; nor when that of the Son was not yet received to burden us further (if I may use so bold an expression) with the Holy Ghost; lest perhaps people might, like men loaded with food beyond their strength, and presenting eyes as yet too weak to bear it to the sun's light, risk the loss even of that which was within the reach of their powers; but that by gradual additions, and, as David says, Goings up, and advances and progress from glory to glory, the Light of the Trinity might shine upon the more illuminated. For this reason it was, I think, that He gradually came to dwell in the Disciples, measuring Himself out to them according to their capacity to receive Him, at the beginning of the Gospel, after the Passion, after the Ascension, making perfect their powers, being breathed upon them, and appearing in fiery tongues. And indeed it is little by little that He is declared by Jesus, as you will learn for yourself if you will read more carefully. I will ask the Father, He says, and He will send you another Comforter, even the spirit of Truth. This He said that He might not seem to be a rival God, or to make His discourses to them by another authority. Again, He shall send Him, but it is in My Name. He leaves out the I will ask, but He keeps the Shall send, then again, I will send,—His own dignity. Then shall come, the authority of the Spirit." (Oration 31.26)
 
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