Lessons not learned

[TomS]

Ex-Con Charged in S.C. 'Dungeon' Rapes

Saturday , March 18, 2006

HARTSVILLE, S.C. — A convicted sex offender apparently hid out in the woods for four days before he was captured about a mile from his home, where police say he bound and raped two teenage girls in an underground room.

Kenneth G. Hinson was tired and thirsty when he showed up a the back door of a relative's home Friday and asked for water, authorities said. The relative gave it to him, then called 911. Hinson, who was carrying a loaded handgun, was quickly arrested.

"He looked like a man that was sort of relieved that it was over," said Chief Deputy Tom Gainey of the Darlington County Sheriff's Department.

During his arrest, videotaped and shown on WIS-TV in Columbia, Hinson assured authorities his relatives hadn't tried to hide him.

"No, they're not harboring, I just come up to the back window," he said.

The two 17-year-old girls had been sleeping in a nearby home late Monday when Hinson, 47, allegedly kidnapped each girl and assaulted her in a room under a shed on his property, police said. The two girls were left bound inside the room but managed to wriggle free and walk to safety.

Local, state and federal authorities had been searching for Hinson in the woods around his neighborhood, about 20 miles northwest of Florence, since Tuesday.

He was charged with kidnapping and rape and taken to the county jail, Gainey said. He also faces burglary and assault and battery charges.

In 1991, Hinson had been convicted of raping a 12-year-old girl. He left prison in 2000, an early release that state Attorney General Henry McMaster criticized Friday.

"This man was sentenced to 20 years. Had that 20 years meant 20 years, he'd still be in jail now, and this wouldn't have happened," he said.

Just before Hinson's release from prison in 2000, a review committee recommended he be committed indefinitely to a Department of Mental Health facility for treatment. But Circuit Judge Edward Cottingham rejected the recommendation, saying prosecutors failed to show that Hinson would likely offend again.

"I can't control what comes before me as a judge," Cottingham said Friday. "And I deal with what's before me and make a ruling to the best of my judgment."

Cottingham said he did not remember the specific case but said state law requires prosecutors to show probable cause that the person will commit another sexual assault.

"Obviously I regret that these young children were raped by this man," the judge said.

-----------------------------

"make a ruling to the best of my judgment."

Repeat after me stupid judge ---

S E X ÂÂ
O F F E N D O R S
C A N ÂÂ
N O T
B E
R E H A B I L I T A T E D

This is a known fact in the Criminal Justice system, based upon hundreds of years of case history - but these stupid psychologists and liberals think these animals can be "changed"

They can't - it is hard wired into their brains.

Either kill them or send them to a sex offender penal colony on an island and let them fend for themselves. Hopefully they will die slowly from a more robust prisoner making use of a pointed stick.

 

[greekischristian]

This is a known fact in the Criminal Justice system, based upon hundreds of years of case history - but these stupid psychologists and liberals think these animals can be "changed"

They can't - it is hard wired into their brains.

Either kill them or send them to a sex offender penal colony on an island and let them fend for themselves. Hopefully they will die slowly from a more robust prisoner making use of a pointed stick.

Your argument is based on general statistics, which are not applicable to a given case. Even if there was a 90% repeat offence rate, the possibility that the person would be amongst the 10% would make the statistics irrelevant. The Judge was doing his duty in determining if there was probable cause that the subject in question (not sex-offenders in general) would commit another sexual assult. Clearly, the failure was not in the action of the Judge but in the failure of the prosecution to demonstrate probable cause before the court. The Judge is a neutral and objective observer who is supposed to act according to well estabished legal procedure; the only failure in this case is that of the prosecution.

 

[Psalti Boy]

"Either kill them or send them to a sex offender penal colony on an island and let them fend for themselves. Hopefully they will die slowly from a more robust prisoner making use of a pointed stick."


I AGREE!!

 

[Asteriktos]

Tom,

They are able to be healed, they just almost always aren't because they are either unwilling, or they don't know how. Sexual perversion is like any other perversive habit: we continue doing it because it fulfills some need in us. Now, the need itself might be perversive, I admit, and indeed if this need couldn't be changed (as some psychologists would argue, and agree with you) then I would have to agree that they should be locked away. However, people CAN change. Even if you discount all the conversions from scoundrels to saints in the church hagiographical literature as nothing but myth, still, I think you have to admit that there is something that can change people. Otherwise, why are you a Christian? I mean, you're a dirtbag... we all are. Some are better at hiding it than others, but compared to God's morality (whatever that might be), we'd all have to seem nearly irrevocably evil.

Think of it this way, if we were all placed on a continuum, God might be placed (just for the sake of demonstrating the point) about 2 million light years to the right of center. All men would be a hundred miles to the left of center (center here being, let's say, the highest morality a created being can attain). Now, Hitler or Stalin might be 200 miles to the left, while TomS might be 95 miles, and thus from a human perspective Hitler and Stalin are greatly more evil than TomS. However, from God's perspective, the difference between Hitler and Stalin seems less acute; Hitler and Stalin had power, TomS does not; Hitler and Stalin went through certain time period that TomS did not; and so forth. I say this not to excuse Hitler or Stalin's madness, but to illustrate that it isn't that much more difficult for God to change Hitler or Stalin than TomS. The difference is that Hitler and Stalin were less willing to change for the good, while TomS--in spite of his iconoclastic posts--is a sincere and good man. But there is nothing genetically or "naturally" hard-wired in the Stalins or Hitlers of the world which prevent them from being changed. It is only their own obstinance.

You are falling into the same trap, Tom, that many Christians in history did when it came to heresy. People thought that heretics were irreformable (most times because their heresy was considered or demonic origin); thus, to burn a person to death, or to lock them away, or to exile them, was see as a viable solution. After all, they couldn't change, so better that they be kept away from everyone else. But obviously people can change. Normally, they don't. But they can. Even if sexual perverts were hard-wired in such a way that they could not naturally change, this seems to be a meaningless point if you believe in a supernatural God. Can God create the world, or man, or give us consciousness (or whatever you believe God can do), and yet not heal a man? Anyway, I'm rambling, but the point of it all is that I disagree that people should just be locked away permanently. They should be given the opportunity to overcome their issues, whether it takes 5 months or 50 years. Or perhaps they will never overcome their problems; but in that case they would remain locked up because they did not reform, not because they could not.

 

[TomS]

Or perhaps they will never overcome their problems; but in that case they would remain locked up because they did not reform, not because they could not.

And how does one know they have sincerely reformed? Or that they think they have reformed until the next opportunity presents itself?

What would you say to the next 12 year old victim or teenager who was bound raped tortured, and possibly killed? That the risk was WORTH IT? No. Historically, the repeat rate for sexual offendors is just too great.

Let's ensure that they are reformed, either via a bullet to the back of the head or removal from society forever.

 

[PeterTheAleut]

Repeat after me stupid judge ---

S E X
O F F E N D O R S
C A N
N O T
B E
R E H A B I L I T A T E D

This is a known fact in the Criminal Justice system, based upon hundreds of years of case history - but these stupid psychologists and liberals think these animals can be "changed"

They can't - it is hard wired into their brains.

Either kill them or send them to a sex offender penal colony on an island and let them fend for themselves. Hopefully they will die slowly from a more robust prisoner making use of a pointed stick.

As the friend of a man serving time in prison as a convicted sex offender, I am offended deeply by this assessment of the psychology of sex offenders.

"The things which are impossible with men are possible with God." (Luke 18:27)

My friend believes this with all his heart. Because the mentality of TomS's quote above pervades so much of our society, even infiltrating the Protestant churches to some degree, my friend sought help in the Orthodox Church and her Holy Mysteries (particularly Confession). Recognizing the heinousness of his sexual crimes, he eventually turned himself in to the civil authorities, stood trial, and willingly accepted a long prison sentence. I understand that my friend is now seeking the ministrations of an Orthodox prison chaplain to enroll him into the catechumenate even while in prison. He is truly penitent, and he wants more than anything to be in communion with the Holy Mysteries of the Church. He knows that his wife will most likely divorce him, so he is even considering tonsure as a monk after his reception into the Church. I understand that there are monastic communities even within our prisons!

Can my friend, a convicted sex offender, change? I am overjoyed to hear of the changes God has wrought in my friend's life already. Can God heal my friend? Did he not heal St. Mary of Egypt, who spent most of her adult life repenting from the sexual debauchery of her youth? I find it most encouraging that we commemorate St. Mary of Egypt and her life of repentance on the Fifth Sunday of Great Lent as a great example for us as we follow the same path of repentance.

 

[PeterTheAleut]

Let's ensure that they are reformed, either via a bullet to the back of the head or removal from society forever.

I love this portion of dialog between Frodo Baggins and Gandalf the Wizard in The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring.

"No, and I don't want to (see Gollum)," said Frodo. "I can't understand you. Do you mean to say that you, and the Elves, have let him live on after all those horrible deeds? Now at any rate he is as bad as an Orc, and just an enemy. He deserves death."

"Deserves it! I daresay he does. Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the wise cannot see all ends. I have not much hope that Gollum can be cured before he dies, but there is a chance of it." (Gandalf)

My credit to J.R.R. Tolkien

 

[TomS]

As the friend of a man serving time in prison as a convicted sex offender, I am offended deeply by this assessment of the psychology of sex offenders.

Ask me if I care.

Can my friend, a convicted sex offender, change?

I would have to hear what the offense was. Was it a violent rape of a minor under 15? If it was then, NO!

I love this portion of dialog between Frodo Baggins and Gandalf the Wizard in The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring.

Right. Might as well keep using fairy tale logic. ÂÂ

 

[DavidH]

"Either kill them or send them to a sex offender penal colony on an island and let them fend for themselves. Hopefully they will die slowly from a more robust prisoner making use of a pointed stick."


I AGREE!!

I understand the passion that inspires this feeling to see that those who do horrible things to helpless innocents get what they deserve. But let's not forget that this feeling itself can be a passion within us. Yes, pray that justice is done and that the offender gets what he deserves, but better yet- pray that he comes to deserve better through repentance and a real change. I hope that everyone who does such things is captured, convicted and incarcerated so that they may do no more harm. But is it right to hope that they they too are violated- and what of the soul of the more "robust prisoner"? Surely this was said in a moment of sympathetic anger for the man's victims and as Christians we don't wish him the same evil he has meted out?.....

Yours in Christ,
Rd. David

 

[TomS]

But is it right to hope that they they too are violated- and what of the soul of the more "robust prisoner"?

The "more robust prisoner" would be a blessed to be God's tool.

But is it right to
Surely this was said in a moment of sympathetic anger for the man's victims and as Christians we don't wish him the same evil he has meted out?.....

No. Worse evil.

I propose to you that if Christ were presented with pedophile, he would of commanded him to be stoned.

 

[DavidH]

Really, Tom-

A man committing sodomy on someone is a "blessed tool of God"?
And we already know what Christ commands regarding those presented to Him for stoning (cf. John 7:53-8:11)
Our zeal for innocents is a virtue. Our incarceration of the most twisted among us is an act of compassion and justice. DESIRING the repentance and change of even the most debased is Christlike and that to which we should strive. Striving for the perfect balance between all these often contradictory objects? Impossible! And yet, with God's help........

Your servant in Christ,
Rd. David

 

[greekischristian]

TomS,

The problem with your argument is that it is inconsonant with the nature of justice. You propose a punishment based on what a given person is likely to do in the future (repeat offence) rather than a punishment that should simply fit the crime, without consideration of future possibilities. I can give statistics that demonstrate that someone is more likely to commit a given crime by virtue of their race; should we be able to use this as a reason to arrest people of a given race to protect society from their potential future crime?

Ultimately, the purpose of the criminal justice system is to punish someone for a crime they have already committed, not to punish them for one they might commit (which includes increasing the penality out of fear of a 'repeat offence'); it is not the responsibility of the courts to protect you, 12 year old girls, or anyone for that matter...justice is blind. If you want protected, buy a gun, if you want your 12 year old daughter protected, buy her a gun.

Furthermore, you seem quite emotional on this issue and not very objective. Perhaps you're trying to tell us something about your past? In any case, due to your clear emotional connection to this issue I would conclude that your opinion is biased and thus of little value in a discipline where objectivity and cool-heads must prevail. To quote my signature line:

'He only employs his passion who can make no use of his reason.' -- Marcus Tullius Cicero

 

[TomS]

Furthermore, you seem quite emotional on this issue and not very objective. Perhaps you're trying to tell us something about your past?

No. Nothing happened in my past. I just believe that some sins are not to be forgiven in this world. And that any person that would rape a child does not deserve society's forgiveness. Some sins reach to the core of civilized society. This is one of them.

And actually I am not just talking about sexual predators - anyone who could do the following does not deserve society's forgiveness either:

---

Man Admits Killing N.Va. Mother, Child

By Tom Jackman
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, March 18, 2006; Page B05

Dinh Pham waited until his former boss left for work, then broke into his townhouse to steal some money and his wife's car, Fairfax County's chief prosecutor told a judge yesterday. What he didn't realize that January day was that the wife, Loan P. Nguyen, was home, taking a shower, and he quickly ducked into a closet.

"When she opened that door," said Commonwealth's Attorney Robert F. Horan Jr., "he came out of that closet and strangled her with a belt or cloth." As she was fighting for her life, her 22-month-old daughter walked into the room. "The child was standing there screaming," Horan said. "He put the belt around the child's neck and, as he told the police, held her in the air until she died." Pham hid their bodies in the crawl space of the Merrifield townhouse.

 

[greekischristian]

No. Nothing happened in my past. I just believe that some sins are not to be forgiven in this world. And that any person that would rape a child does not deserve society's forgiveness. Some sins reach to the core of civilized society. This is one of them.

In that case, perhaps you should argue that the crime itself is deserving of death, rather than arguing that extreme measures should be used to ensure no repeat offences. I would be far more sympathetic to such an argument, though I still believe your suggested penalties to be too draconian.

And actually I am not just talking about sexual predators - anyone who could do the following does not deserve society's forgiveness either:

Well, I dont know that I would say such a crime precludes forgiveness; but in the objective context of our legal system, forgiveness does not have to imply a suspension of justice. Also, I am more sympathetic with the use of the death penalty in cases of murder, especially with special circumstances such as a double murder, than I am in cases of other common crimes; however, though I am sympathetic towards such a posistion, and once supported it, I no longer support the use of the death penalty for common criminal offences (including murder), I believe that such punishments are unnecessarily draconian within our current social context. I only support the death penalty for treason and for cowardice and espionage during time of war.

 

[Psalti Boy]

I wonder if those of you who do not support the death penalty for sexual predators would be OK if they got life with no chance of parole and a cellmate who might give them a taste of their own medicine. An eye for an eye?

 

[PeterTheAleut]

TomS and Psalti Boy,

Are you yourselves without sin? If not, then why are you so willing to cast stones at those for whom Christ died? If you are not without sin, should you not focus on your own repentance and on accusing yourselves instead of spending so much time judging others?

 

[Psalti Boy]

TomS and Psalti Boy,

Are you yourselves without sin?  If not, then why are you so willing to cast stones at those for whom Christ died?  If you are not without sin, should you not focus on your own repentance and on accusing yourselves instead of spending so much time judging others?

No. I don't think I will ever be without sin. I already have a weekly standing appointment for confession. And I don't spend that much time judging others. Casting stones? No. Just let me throw the switch.

 

[PeterTheAleut]

No. I don't think I will ever be without sin. I already have a weekly standing appointment for confession. And I don't spend that much time judging others. Casting stones? No. Just let me throw the switch.

switch... stones... What's the difference?

 

[TomS]

TomS and Psalti Boy,

Are you yourselves without sin? ÂÂ

Oh geez. Here we go with this crap. There are different DEGREES of sin.

 

[Psalti Boy]

switch... stones... What's the difference?

With the switch I won't have to strain my arm.

 

[Psalti Boy]

Also, I am more sympathetic with the use of the death penalty in cases of murder, especially with special circumstances such as a double murder, than I am in cases of other common crimes; however, though I am sympathetic towards such a posistion, and once supported it, I no longer support the use of the death penalty for common criminal offences (including murder), I believe that such punishments are unnecessarily draconian within our current social context. I only support the death penalty for treason and for cowardice and espionage during time of war.

So, are you saying that sexually assaulting a child . . . or anyone for that matter . . . is a common crime? It may have become common in our society because we don't put them away for good, but I can hardly believe that rape is a common crime.

 

[greekischristian]

So, are you saying that sexually assaulting a child . . . or anyone for that matter . . . is a common crime?  It may have become common in our society because we don't put them away for good, but I can hardly believe that rape is a common crime.

I was using the term common crime to create a distinction between crimes against members of society that are common in society, from theft to rape to murder, as compared with larger crimes against society itself, such as Treason and Espionage and Cowardice during times of war...Crimes that truly threaten the very existance of a given society. I advocate death for the latter but not for the former.

 

[PeterTheAleut]

God made Himself incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary and became man. He dwelt among us and brought to us the way of salvation. Yet we wanted no part in the Life He so freely offered us, so we crucified Him. Is not this Deicide the ultimate sin (not to mention crime)?

Yet what did this man, Jesus Christ, say on the cross? "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do." Even while suffering at the hands of His murderers, and even while suffering for the sins of all mankind, Jesus prayed to His Father that their (our) sins would be forgiven. Should not we who unite ourselves to Christ's Passion via Baptism adopt this same attitude that Christ displayed?

I don't want to say, however, that crimes against persons and against society should not be punished. They should, but always with the salvation of the punished as its goal. The desire to inflict pain and suffering out of nothing more than a punitive spirit is really nothing more than a desire for vengeance, which is not our prerogative if we want to build our society upon the principles of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I think this Gospel is summed up pretty well in this snippet from the prayers that we read before Communion: "Christ came to save sinners, of whom I am first/chief."

Might as well keep using fairy tale logic.

Fairy tale logic? I daresay it is! But I think this fairy tale logic is much closer to the Gospel of the Cross, "a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles," than the cold, calculating, heartless logic you have used so far in this thread. This is not the wisdom of the Gospel; rather, it is the logic of this fallen world and the devil, who is its master.

 

[TomS]

They should, but always with the salvation of the punished as its goal. ÂÂ

That is why a priest is available prior to becoming a human shish-ka-bob.