Make God's path straight by being born again

genesisone

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Alfred Persson said:
genesisone said:
Alfred, you have said many things in your 700+ posts that are very good. You do have a sincere love for the Holy Scriptures, and you have worked hard to understand them. I recognize that and appreciate it. Unfortunately, your presentation style is argumentative and unloving. Undoubtedly, I, too, have written things here that after due consideration would wish to amend - though I don't intend to sift through all of these messages :).

I wish it were possible for us to have a healthy and profitable discussion, but I know there is nothing I can say that will meet your satisfaction. I will have to leave that to God.

You may be interested in the life of the Saint whose name you bear:
http://www.orthodoxengland.org.uk/s9centy.htm
Alfred the Great Oct 26 849-899. King of Wessex and all Orthodox England who defeated the Danish invaders and ensured the growth of the Church in England. A patron of sacred learning, Alfred the Great himself translated into English such works as the Dialogues of St Gregory the Great. His memory is held by many in great veneration as a patriot and model of Orthodox kingship.
Tomorrow I will be remembering both him and you in my prayers.
You recommended Orthodox tradition saying as I became immersed, I would understand. In essence, you promise the blind will see.

-- big snip --

Rom 11:7-10 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded  
I'm really not sure what your lengthy message here has to do with my point, but thank you for at least noticing my message. I'll probably mention it again in the morning, but I do wish you a happy name day. Many years, Alfred!

As you may know, for the Orthodox, the liturgical day begins at sundown. Must be another one of our man-made traditions  ;).
 

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tuesdayschild said:
Alfred Persson said:
tuesdayschild said:
Alfred Persson said:
tuesdayschild said:
Alfred Persson said:
tuesdayschild said:
tuesdayschild said:
Alfred Persson said:
tuesdayschild said:
Alfred, I was going to drop this, but there is something about what you wrote that I don't understand. An answer may help me understand the way you interpret the Bible.

Alfred Persson said:
I rarely go, only when I feel like it.

They may have removed me from the membership rolls, I was warned.

Its a great church however, spirit filled believers all active in the LORD.

And I go when I can, when I feel like, when its convenient.

It is written:

not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching (Heb 10:25 NKJ)

So I have not forsaken it by any means.

I don't meet your standards, that's all.
You claim regular faithful church attendance is our standard, but it appears to be a pretty straightforward reading of the text. You say that you rarely go to church, and that when you do, it is only when you feel like it, when it is convenient. That sounds to me like "the manner of some," since there are many who say they are Christians but who attend church rarely, when it is convenient to them.

So how do you figure that you "have not forsaken it by any means"?  
I haven't, and you haven't supported your claims Orthodox tradition makes apostolic doctrine knowable. I was told regular attendance at an Orthodox church, immersion in the tradition, would unveil apostolic doctrine.

But when I ask you interpret this verse, prove your claims, you fail to unveil the apostolic doctrine in this verse:

15 Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control. (1Ti 2:15 NKJ)

Being you are a regular church goer, this should have been no problem for you.

Why is it a problem, doesn't Orthodox tradition make apostolic doctrine knowable, as you and others claim?
I never said "Orthodox tradition makes apostolic doctrine knowable."  You must have me confused with another member here.

I am not following the discussion you are having with others about 1 Tim. 2:15.  It does not interest me as much as your interpretation of 1 Tim. 2:15 Heb 10:25 (Edit: Oops!).  Alfred, simply saying that you haven't forsaken assembling together does not make it so, especially when you admitted in the same virtual breath that you have forsaken it.

How do you figure that you "have not forsaken it by any means"?  
Alfred, please answer my question.
Already did, you don't like the answer. I haven't forsaken it, I still attend.

Now you answer my question, how is it the scriptures are dark to you?

And He said, "To you it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is given in parables, that`Seeing they may not see, And hearing they may not understand.' (Luk 8:10 NKJ)

Aren't you one of those it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God?
I see, you rarely attend, but you still attend, is that it?  When was the last time you attended church?  Did you attend on Sunday?  

What question would you like me to answer?  
How is it the scriptures are dark to you?

And He said, "To you it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is given in parables, that`Seeing they may not see, And hearing they may not understand.' (Luk 8:10 NKJ)


Aren't you one of those it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God?
Are the scriptures dark to me?  Have I have claimed to be "one of those it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God?"  I think you will have a difficult time finding that in one of my posts.

Your turn: When was the last time you attended church?  Did you attend on Sunday?  

Now you answer my question, how is it the scriptures are dark to you?

And He said, "To you it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is given in parables, that`Seeing they may not see, And hearing they may not understand.' (Luk 8:10 NKJ)


Aren't you one of those it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God?
I did answer your question, Alfred, but maybe I misunderstood you. How is it that you think the scriptures are dark to me?  Where in this thread or any other did I ever claim to be one of those to whom "it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God"?

Alfred, when was the last time you attended church?  Did you attend on Sunday?  Please answer my questions, which are considerably more straightforward than yours.  Please do not allow me to draw my own conclusions about you, which I will have to do without your answers.
Not so fast, you didn't answer. HOW is it you don't know? Don't you have the Holy Spirit? How is it you don't know?

But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things.
(1Jo 2:20 NKJ)

Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God (1Co 2:12 NKJ)
 

bogdan

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Alfred Persson said:
bogdan said:
Alfred Persson said:
You recommended Orthodox tradition saying as I became immersed, I would understand. In essence, you promise the blind will see.

BUT when I ask those who have been immersed in Orthodox tradition, who presumably now see, to interpret an obscure verse, they cannot.
Cannot, or will not?

If you are not capable of receiving the tradition because of your self-imposed blindness, why would our explaining it do you any good? Come and see it for yourself.

Yes, lets remove me from the equation, that should make it easy for you to prove Orthodox tradition is far superior to sola scriptura.

Pick a text sola scripturaists seem unable to answer...and that your Orthodox tradition cleared up quite nicely.

Then you prove your tradition superior to sola scriptura.

AND you can't blame me for your failure.
Why would I be inclined to do such a thing? We don't treat the Bible like some sort of reference manual. That is not how Orthodox use the Bible. As you may have noticed by now, we're not really into systematic theology, at least not in the way that Western Christians are into it.

Which is why we have said from the start: your premises are all wrong. We are talking past each other because the Church approaches scripture a completely different way from you. You aren't getting the answers you want because you aren't asking the right questions.
 

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bogdan said:
Alfred Persson said:
bogdan said:
Alfred Persson said:
You recommended Orthodox tradition saying as I became immersed, I would understand. In essence, you promise the blind will see.

BUT when I ask those who have been immersed in Orthodox tradition, who presumably now see, to interpret an obscure verse, they cannot.
Cannot, or will not?

If you are not capable of receiving the tradition because of your self-imposed blindness, why would our explaining it do you any good? Come and see it for yourself.

Yes, lets remove me from the equation, that should make it easy for you to prove Orthodox tradition is far superior to sola scriptura.

Pick a text sola scripturaists seem unable to answer...and that your Orthodox tradition cleared up quite nicely.

Then you prove your tradition superior to sola scriptura.

AND you can't blame me for your failure.
Why would I be inclined to do such a thing? We don't treat the Bible like some sort of reference manual. That is not how Orthodox use the Bible. As you may have noticed by now, we're not really into systematic theology, at least not in the way that Western Christians are into it.

Which is why we have said from the start: your premises are all wrong. We are talking past each other because the Church approaches scripture a completely different way from you. You aren't getting the answers you want because you aren't asking the right questions.
?? Your approach leaves you confused about the teaching in scripture, and you are OK with that?
 

bogdan

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Alfred Persson said:
bogdan said:
Alfred Persson said:
bogdan said:
Alfred Persson said:
You recommended Orthodox tradition saying as I became immersed, I would understand. In essence, you promise the blind will see.

BUT when I ask those who have been immersed in Orthodox tradition, who presumably now see, to interpret an obscure verse, they cannot.
Cannot, or will not?

If you are not capable of receiving the tradition because of your self-imposed blindness, why would our explaining it do you any good? Come and see it for yourself.

Yes, lets remove me from the equation, that should make it easy for you to prove Orthodox tradition is far superior to sola scriptura.

Pick a text sola scripturaists seem unable to answer...and that your Orthodox tradition cleared up quite nicely.

Then you prove your tradition superior to sola scriptura.

AND you can't blame me for your failure.
Why would I be inclined to do such a thing? We don't treat the Bible like some sort of reference manual. That is not how Orthodox use the Bible. As you may have noticed by now, we're not really into systematic theology, at least not in the way that Western Christians are into it.

Which is why we have said from the start: your premises are all wrong. We are talking past each other because the Church approaches scripture a completely different way from you. You aren't getting the answers you want because you aren't asking the right questions.
?? Your approach leaves you confused about the teaching in scripture, and you are OK with that?
No, not confused, just not an expert or knowledgable about everything. I don't put my faith in my personal interpretation of the Bible, that's for sure. Heaven help me if I should depend on my own wisdom.

My faith is in Christ, His Church, and the Holy Spirit who guides it. I don't have any particular need to understand every jot and tiddle of the Scriptures. Those whom God has established to teach, they will teach. It is my job in my present station in life to listen and learn, so I listen and learn. In the Church, it is not every man for himself, so we don't have to run ourselves ragged trying to become a jack of all trades and eke out the meaning of every passage.

We can't possibly understand it all ourselves anyway (to think otherwise is the height of arrogance). It is better to not try, rather to have faith in Christ. Being a good academic will not save us.
 

Demetrios G.

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Alfred Persson said:
Demetrios G. said:
Alfred Persson said:
bogdan said:
Alfred Persson said:
You recommended Orthodox tradition saying as I became immersed, I would understand. In essence, you promise the blind will see.

BUT when I ask those who have been immersed in Orthodox tradition, who presumably now see, to interpret an obscure verse, they cannot.
Cannot, or will not?

If you are not capable of receiving the tradition because of your self-imposed blindness, why would our explaining it do you any good? Come and see it for yourself.

Yes, lets remove me from the equation, that should make it easy for you to prove Orthodox tradition is far superior to sola scriptura.

Pick a text sola scripturaists seem unable to answer...and that your Orthodox tradition cleared up quite nicely.

Then you prove your tradition superior to sola scriptura.

AND you can't blame me for your failure.
Words could never describe something that needs to be seen. Would you marry a woman based on a written description alone? I don't think so.  ;)
People do every day.

And your analogy is irrelevant to the point.

If Orthodox Tradition complements Scripture as the Orthodox claim, it will render the dark visible.

Sola scriptura, via sound hermeneutics and logic, does precisely that.

Therefore, Orthodox Tradition either bests sola scripture at making the dark visible, or it is inferior to it as a methodology to learn God's Word.
I didn't ask you about what people would do. I ask you what you would do. I doubt you would marry based on a description alone and that is exactly the point. You yourself have clearly stated that you need hermeneutics and logic along with sola scriptura. Rendering the sola from scriptura :laugh:. Hermeneutics is nothing more than your philosophical view imposed on the words. Your tradition.
 

tuesdayschild

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Alfred Persson said:
tuesdayschild said:
Alfred Persson said:
tuesdayschild said:
Alfred Persson said:
tuesdayschild said:
Alfred Persson said:
tuesdayschild said:
tuesdayschild said:
Alfred Persson said:
tuesdayschild said:
Alfred, I was going to drop this, but there is something about what you wrote that I don't understand. An answer may help me understand the way you interpret the Bible.

Alfred Persson said:
I rarely go, only when I feel like it.

They may have removed me from the membership rolls, I was warned.

Its a great church however, spirit filled believers all active in the LORD.

And I go when I can, when I feel like, when its convenient.

It is written:

not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching (Heb 10:25 NKJ)

So I have not forsaken it by any means.

I don't meet your standards, that's all.
You claim regular faithful church attendance is our standard, but it appears to be a pretty straightforward reading of the text. You say that you rarely go to church, and that when you do, it is only when you feel like it, when it is convenient. That sounds to me like "the manner of some," since there are many who say they are Christians but who attend church rarely, when it is convenient to them.

So how do you figure that you "have not forsaken it by any means"?  
I haven't, and you haven't supported your claims Orthodox tradition makes apostolic doctrine knowable. I was told regular attendance at an Orthodox church, immersion in the tradition, would unveil apostolic doctrine.

But when I ask you interpret this verse, prove your claims, you fail to unveil the apostolic doctrine in this verse:

15 Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control. (1Ti 2:15 NKJ)

Being you are a regular church goer, this should have been no problem for you.

Why is it a problem, doesn't Orthodox tradition make apostolic doctrine knowable, as you and others claim?
I never said "Orthodox tradition makes apostolic doctrine knowable."  You must have me confused with another member here.

I am not following the discussion you are having with others about 1 Tim. 2:15.  It does not interest me as much as your interpretation of 1 Tim. 2:15 Heb 10:25 (Edit: Oops!).  Alfred, simply saying that you haven't forsaken assembling together does not make it so, especially when you admitted in the same virtual breath that you have forsaken it.

How do you figure that you "have not forsaken it by any means"?  
Alfred, please answer my question.
Already did, you don't like the answer. I haven't forsaken it, I still attend.

Now you answer my question, how is it the scriptures are dark to you?

And He said, "To you it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is given in parables, that`Seeing they may not see, And hearing they may not understand.' (Luk 8:10 NKJ)

Aren't you one of those it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God?
I see, you rarely attend, but you still attend, is that it?  When was the last time you attended church?  Did you attend on Sunday?  

What question would you like me to answer?  
How is it the scriptures are dark to you?

And He said, "To you it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is given in parables, that`Seeing they may not see, And hearing they may not understand.' (Luk 8:10 NKJ)


Aren't you one of those it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God?
Are the scriptures dark to me?  Have I have claimed to be "one of those it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God?"  I think you will have a difficult time finding that in one of my posts.

Your turn: When was the last time you attended church?  Did you attend on Sunday?  

Now you answer my question, how is it the scriptures are dark to you?

And He said, "To you it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is given in parables, that`Seeing they may not see, And hearing they may not understand.' (Luk 8:10 NKJ)


Aren't you one of those it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God?
I did answer your question, Alfred, but maybe I misunderstood you. How is it that you think the scriptures are dark to me?  Where in this thread or any other did I ever claim to be one of those to whom "it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God"?

Alfred, when was the last time you attended church?  Did you attend on Sunday?  Please answer my questions, which are considerably more straightforward than yours.  Please do not allow me to draw my own conclusions about you, which I will have to do without your answers.
Not so fast, you didn't answer. HOW is it you don't know? Don't you have the Holy Spirit? How is it you don't know?

But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things.
(1Jo 2:20 NKJ)

Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God (1Co 2:12 NKJ)
I will freely admit that do not know all things.  (You may draw whatever conclusions you like from that.)  For instance, I do not know when you last attended church. 

Prove to me that "you know all things" (1 John 2:20) by telling me when was the last time you attended church.
 

Alfred Persson

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bogdan said:
Alfred Persson said:
bogdan said:
Alfred Persson said:
bogdan said:
Alfred Persson said:
You recommended Orthodox tradition saying as I became immersed, I would understand. In essence, you promise the blind will see.

BUT when I ask those who have been immersed in Orthodox tradition, who presumably now see, to interpret an obscure verse, they cannot.
Cannot, or will not?

If you are not capable of receiving the tradition because of your self-imposed blindness, why would our explaining it do you any good? Come and see it for yourself.

Yes, lets remove me from the equation, that should make it easy for you to prove Orthodox tradition is far superior to sola scriptura.

Pick a text sola scripturaists seem unable to answer...and that your Orthodox tradition cleared up quite nicely.

Then you prove your tradition superior to sola scriptura.

AND you can't blame me for your failure.
Why would I be inclined to do such a thing? We don't treat the Bible like some sort of reference manual. That is not how Orthodox use the Bible. As you may have noticed by now, we're not really into systematic theology, at least not in the way that Western Christians are into it.

Which is why we have said from the start: your premises are all wrong. We are talking past each other because the Church approaches scripture a completely different way from you. You aren't getting the answers you want because you aren't asking the right questions.
?? Your approach leaves you confused about the teaching in scripture, and you are OK with that?
No, not confused, just not an expert or knowledgable about everything. I don't put my faith in my personal interpretation of the Bible, that's for sure. Heaven help me if I should depend on my own wisdom.

My faith is in Christ, His Church, and the Holy Spirit who guides it. I don't have any particular need to understand every jot and tiddle of the Scriptures. Those whom God has established to teach, they will teach. It is my job in my present station in life to listen and learn, so I listen and learn. In the Church, it is not every man for himself, so we don't have to run ourselves ragged trying to become a jack of all trades and eke out the meaning of every passage.

We can't possibly understand it all ourselves anyway (to think otherwise is the height of arrogance). It is better to not try, rather to have faith in Christ. Being a good academic will not save us.
Fair enough. BUT as we both are here for apologetic purposes...I wonder at your reluctance.

Lets reverse it. If you asked me to prove sola scriptura superior method for learning scripture, to following tradition, I will gladly produce examples where Orthodox tradition failed to clarify a text, perhaps citing the confusion on it among the fathers and Orthodox, AND where sola scriptura, using sound principles of hermeneutics, interpreted the text according to its grammar and syntax.

THAT would prove which method is better for learning God's truth. God's Word is Truth:

"Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth. (Joh 17:17 NKJ)

It is via correct understanding of God's Word, that we are sanctified, that is, separated from what is impure.

God speaks to me via the scripture, uncovering secret sins, errors in thought:

12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.
(Heb 4:12-13 KJV)

If I can't understand the Scripture, that ceases.

 

Alfred Persson

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tuesdayschild said:
Alfred Persson said:
tuesdayschild said:
Alfred Persson said:
tuesdayschild said:
Alfred Persson said:
tuesdayschild said:
Alfred Persson said:
tuesdayschild said:
tuesdayschild said:
Alfred Persson said:
tuesdayschild said:
Alfred, I was going to drop this, but there is something about what you wrote that I don't understand. An answer may help me understand the way you interpret the Bible.

Alfred Persson said:
I rarely go, only when I feel like it.

They may have removed me from the membership rolls, I was warned.

Its a great church however, spirit filled believers all active in the LORD.

And I go when I can, when I feel like, when its convenient.

It is written:

not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching (Heb 10:25 NKJ)

So I have not forsaken it by any means.

I don't meet your standards, that's all.
You claim regular faithful church attendance is our standard, but it appears to be a pretty straightforward reading of the text. You say that you rarely go to church, and that when you do, it is only when you feel like it, when it is convenient. That sounds to me like "the manner of some," since there are many who say they are Christians but who attend church rarely, when it is convenient to them.

So how do you figure that you "have not forsaken it by any means"?  
I haven't, and you haven't supported your claims Orthodox tradition makes apostolic doctrine knowable. I was told regular attendance at an Orthodox church, immersion in the tradition, would unveil apostolic doctrine.

But when I ask you interpret this verse, prove your claims, you fail to unveil the apostolic doctrine in this verse:

15 Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control. (1Ti 2:15 NKJ)

Being you are a regular church goer, this should have been no problem for you.

Why is it a problem, doesn't Orthodox tradition make apostolic doctrine knowable, as you and others claim?
I never said "Orthodox tradition makes apostolic doctrine knowable."  You must have me confused with another member here.

I am not following the discussion you are having with others about 1 Tim. 2:15.  It does not interest me as much as your interpretation of 1 Tim. 2:15 Heb 10:25 (Edit: Oops!).  Alfred, simply saying that you haven't forsaken assembling together does not make it so, especially when you admitted in the same virtual breath that you have forsaken it.

How do you figure that you "have not forsaken it by any means"?  
Alfred, please answer my question.
Already did, you don't like the answer. I haven't forsaken it, I still attend.

Now you answer my question, how is it the scriptures are dark to you?

And He said, "To you it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is given in parables, that`Seeing they may not see, And hearing they may not understand.' (Luk 8:10 NKJ)

Aren't you one of those it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God?
I see, you rarely attend, but you still attend, is that it?  When was the last time you attended church?  Did you attend on Sunday?  

What question would you like me to answer?  
How is it the scriptures are dark to you?

And He said, "To you it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is given in parables, that`Seeing they may not see, And hearing they may not understand.' (Luk 8:10 NKJ)


Aren't you one of those it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God?
Are the scriptures dark to me?  Have I have claimed to be "one of those it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God?"  I think you will have a difficult time finding that in one of my posts.

Your turn: When was the last time you attended church?  Did you attend on Sunday?  

Now you answer my question, how is it the scriptures are dark to you?

And He said, "To you it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is given in parables, that`Seeing they may not see, And hearing they may not understand.' (Luk 8:10 NKJ)


Aren't you one of those it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God?
I did answer your question, Alfred, but maybe I misunderstood you. How is it that you think the scriptures are dark to me?  Where in this thread or any other did I ever claim to be one of those to whom "it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God"?

Alfred, when was the last time you attended church?  Did you attend on Sunday?  Please answer my questions, which are considerably more straightforward than yours.  Please do not allow me to draw my own conclusions about you, which I will have to do without your answers.
Not so fast, you didn't answer. HOW is it you don't know? Don't you have the Holy Spirit? How is it you don't know?

But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things.
(1Jo 2:20 NKJ)

Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God (1Co 2:12 NKJ)
I will freely admit that do not know all things.  (You may draw whatever conclusions you like from that.)  For instance, I do not know when you last attended church. 

Prove to me that "you know all things" (1 John 2:20) by telling me when was the last time you attended church.
You still aren't answering HOW (or WHY) you don't know these things from God given to His children to know, by His Spirit:

Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.

How is it YOU don't know these things freely given to us by God?
(1Co 2:12 NKJ)
 

tuesdayschild

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Alfred Persson said:
tuesdayschild said:
Alfred Persson said:
tuesdayschild said:
Alfred Persson said:
tuesdayschild said:
Alfred Persson said:
tuesdayschild said:
Alfred Persson said:
tuesdayschild said:
tuesdayschild said:
Alfred Persson said:
tuesdayschild said:
Alfred, I was going to drop this, but there is something about what you wrote that I don't understand. An answer may help me understand the way you interpret the Bible.

Alfred Persson said:
I rarely go, only when I feel like it.

They may have removed me from the membership rolls, I was warned.

Its a great church however, spirit filled believers all active in the LORD.

And I go when I can, when I feel like, when its convenient.

It is written:

not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching (Heb 10:25 NKJ)

So I have not forsaken it by any means.

I don't meet your standards, that's all.
You claim regular faithful church attendance is our standard, but it appears to be a pretty straightforward reading of the text. You say that you rarely go to church, and that when you do, it is only when you feel like it, when it is convenient. That sounds to me like "the manner of some," since there are many who say they are Christians but who attend church rarely, when it is convenient to them.

So how do you figure that you "have not forsaken it by any means"?  
I haven't, and you haven't supported your claims Orthodox tradition makes apostolic doctrine knowable. I was told regular attendance at an Orthodox church, immersion in the tradition, would unveil apostolic doctrine.

But when I ask you interpret this verse, prove your claims, you fail to unveil the apostolic doctrine in this verse:

15 Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control. (1Ti 2:15 NKJ)

Being you are a regular church goer, this should have been no problem for you.

Why is it a problem, doesn't Orthodox tradition make apostolic doctrine knowable, as you and others claim?
I never said "Orthodox tradition makes apostolic doctrine knowable."  You must have me confused with another member here.

I am not following the discussion you are having with others about 1 Tim. 2:15.  It does not interest me as much as your interpretation of 1 Tim. 2:15 Heb 10:25 (Edit: Oops!).  Alfred, simply saying that you haven't forsaken assembling together does not make it so, especially when you admitted in the same virtual breath that you have forsaken it.

How do you figure that you "have not forsaken it by any means"?  
Alfred, please answer my question.
Already did, you don't like the answer. I haven't forsaken it, I still attend.

Now you answer my question, how is it the scriptures are dark to you?

And He said, "To you it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is given in parables, that`Seeing they may not see, And hearing they may not understand.' (Luk 8:10 NKJ)

Aren't you one of those it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God?
I see, you rarely attend, but you still attend, is that it?  When was the last time you attended church?  Did you attend on Sunday?  

What question would you like me to answer?  
How is it the scriptures are dark to you?

And He said, "To you it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is given in parables, that`Seeing they may not see, And hearing they may not understand.' (Luk 8:10 NKJ)


Aren't you one of those it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God?
Are the scriptures dark to me?  Have I have claimed to be "one of those it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God?"  I think you will have a difficult time finding that in one of my posts.

Your turn: When was the last time you attended church?  Did you attend on Sunday?  

Now you answer my question, how is it the scriptures are dark to you?

And He said, "To you it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is given in parables, that`Seeing they may not see, And hearing they may not understand.' (Luk 8:10 NKJ)


Aren't you one of those it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God?
I did answer your question, Alfred, but maybe I misunderstood you. How is it that you think the scriptures are dark to me?  Where in this thread or any other did I ever claim to be one of those to whom "it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God"?

Alfred, when was the last time you attended church?  Did you attend on Sunday?  Please answer my questions, which are considerably more straightforward than yours.  Please do not allow me to draw my own conclusions about you, which I will have to do without your answers.
Not so fast, you didn't answer. HOW is it you don't know? Don't you have the Holy Spirit? How is it you don't know?

But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things.
(1Jo 2:20 NKJ)

Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God (1Co 2:12 NKJ)
I will freely admit that do not know all things.  (You may draw whatever conclusions you like from that.)  For instance, I do not know when you last attended church. 

Prove to me that "you know all things" (1 John 2:20) by telling me when was the last time you attended church.
You still aren't answering HOW (or WHY) you don't know these things from God given to His children to know, by His Spirit:

Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.

How is it YOU don't know these things freely given to us by God?
(1Co 2:12 NKJ)
Well, since I have already admitted that I do not know all things, maybe I do not know the answer to your question.

But I am sure that you think that you do know all things, such as the date of your most recent church attendance.  Or maybe you do not know all things, after all.  If not, what does that say about you?
 

Marc1152

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Alfred Persson said:
bogdan said:
Alfred Persson said:
You recommended Orthodox tradition saying as I became immersed, I would understand. In essence, you promise the blind will see.

BUT when I ask those who have been immersed in Orthodox tradition, who presumably now see, to interpret an obscure verse, they cannot.
Cannot, or will not?

If you are not capable of receiving the tradition because of your self-imposed blindness, why would our explaining it do you any good? Come and see it for yourself.

Yes, lets remove me from the equation, that should make it easy for you to prove Orthodox tradition is far superior to sola scriptura.

Pick a text sola scripturaists seem unable to answer...and that your Orthodox tradition cleared up quite nicely.

Then you prove your tradition superior to sola scriptura.

AND you can't blame me for your failure.
This..once again.. is not the Church of Holy Exegesis. You may well have answers for the smallest most obscure passages of scripture. So what ?

And when it comes to an obsure passage we may only have something that's a bit vauge. So what?

Your answer long as it may be, could be utterly wrong, even herticial. Our answer, a bit vauge as it may be, is at the minimum on the right track.

It is entirely acceptable for Orthodox to find some passage that is not central to the Faith and say that the Fathers have not said enough about it and here is what I think. It is not acceptable to change the Faith, Once Delivered by all sorts of personal re-interpretations.

We have seen nearly every ancient heresy resotred by Protestants by that method. Name a heresy put to bed hundreds of years ago and I will show you a Protestant Group that has breathed new life into it based on their miss handling of Scripture.

Alfred, you have made a very weak case IMHO.

   
 

Alfred Persson

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tuesdayschild said:
Alfred Persson said:
tuesdayschild said:
Alfred Persson said:
tuesdayschild said:
Alfred Persson said:
tuesdayschild said:
Alfred Persson said:
tuesdayschild said:
Alfred Persson said:
tuesdayschild said:
tuesdayschild said:
Alfred Persson said:
tuesdayschild said:
Alfred, I was going to drop this, but there is something about what you wrote that I don't understand. An answer may help me understand the way you interpret the Bible.

Alfred Persson said:
I rarely go, only when I feel like it.

They may have removed me from the membership rolls, I was warned.

Its a great church however, spirit filled believers all active in the LORD.

And I go when I can, when I feel like, when its convenient.

It is written:

not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching (Heb 10:25 NKJ)

So I have not forsaken it by any means.

I don't meet your standards, that's all.
You claim regular faithful church attendance is our standard, but it appears to be a pretty straightforward reading of the text. You say that you rarely go to church, and that when you do, it is only when you feel like it, when it is convenient. That sounds to me like "the manner of some," since there are many who say they are Christians but who attend church rarely, when it is convenient to them.

So how do you figure that you "have not forsaken it by any means"?  
I haven't, and you haven't supported your claims Orthodox tradition makes apostolic doctrine knowable. I was told regular attendance at an Orthodox church, immersion in the tradition, would unveil apostolic doctrine.

But when I ask you interpret this verse, prove your claims, you fail to unveil the apostolic doctrine in this verse:

15 Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control. (1Ti 2:15 NKJ)

Being you are a regular church goer, this should have been no problem for you.

Why is it a problem, doesn't Orthodox tradition make apostolic doctrine knowable, as you and others claim?
I never said "Orthodox tradition makes apostolic doctrine knowable."  You must have me confused with another member here.

I am not following the discussion you are having with others about 1 Tim. 2:15.  It does not interest me as much as your interpretation of 1 Tim. 2:15 Heb 10:25 (Edit: Oops!).  Alfred, simply saying that you haven't forsaken assembling together does not make it so, especially when you admitted in the same virtual breath that you have forsaken it.

How do you figure that you "have not forsaken it by any means"?  
Alfred, please answer my question.
Already did, you don't like the answer. I haven't forsaken it, I still attend.

Now you answer my question, how is it the scriptures are dark to you?

And He said, "To you it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is given in parables, that`Seeing they may not see, And hearing they may not understand.' (Luk 8:10 NKJ)

Aren't you one of those it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God?
I see, you rarely attend, but you still attend, is that it?  When was the last time you attended church?  Did you attend on Sunday?  

What question would you like me to answer?  
How is it the scriptures are dark to you?

And He said, "To you it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is given in parables, that`Seeing they may not see, And hearing they may not understand.' (Luk 8:10 NKJ)


Aren't you one of those it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God?
Are the scriptures dark to me?  Have I have claimed to be "one of those it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God?"  I think you will have a difficult time finding that in one of my posts.

Your turn: When was the last time you attended church?  Did you attend on Sunday?  

Now you answer my question, how is it the scriptures are dark to you?

And He said, "To you it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is given in parables, that`Seeing they may not see, And hearing they may not understand.' (Luk 8:10 NKJ)


Aren't you one of those it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God?
I did answer your question, Alfred, but maybe I misunderstood you. How is it that you think the scriptures are dark to me?  Where in this thread or any other did I ever claim to be one of those to whom "it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God"?

Alfred, when was the last time you attended church?  Did you attend on Sunday?  Please answer my questions, which are considerably more straightforward than yours.  Please do not allow me to draw my own conclusions about you, which I will have to do without your answers.
Not so fast, you didn't answer. HOW is it you don't know? Don't you have the Holy Spirit? How is it you don't know?

But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things.
(1Jo 2:20 NKJ)

Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God (1Co 2:12 NKJ)
I will freely admit that do not know all things.  (You may draw whatever conclusions you like from that.)  For instance, I do not know when you last attended church. 

Prove to me that "you know all things" (1 John 2:20) by telling me when was the last time you attended church.
You still aren't answering HOW (or WHY) you don't know these things from God given to His children to know, by His Spirit:

Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.

How is it YOU don't know these things freely given to us by God?
(1Co 2:12 NKJ)
Well, since I have already admitted that I do not know all things, maybe I do not know the answer to your question.

But I am sure that you think that you do know all things, such as the date of your most recent church attendance.  Or maybe you do not know all things, after all.  If not, what does that say about you?
How can you not know when the text is this clear, I think you are evading the question:


NKJ  1 Corinthians 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.
 

tuesdayschild

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Alfred Persson said:
tuesdayschild said:
Alfred Persson said:
tuesdayschild said:
Alfred Persson said:
tuesdayschild said:
Alfred Persson said:
tuesdayschild said:
Alfred Persson said:
tuesdayschild said:
Alfred Persson said:
tuesdayschild said:
tuesdayschild said:
Alfred Persson said:
tuesdayschild said:
Alfred, I was going to drop this, but there is something about what you wrote that I don't understand. An answer may help me understand the way you interpret the Bible.

Alfred Persson said:
I rarely go, only when I feel like it.

They may have removed me from the membership rolls, I was warned.

Its a great church however, spirit filled believers all active in the LORD.

And I go when I can, when I feel like, when its convenient.

It is written:

not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching (Heb 10:25 NKJ)

So I have not forsaken it by any means.

I don't meet your standards, that's all.
You claim regular faithful church attendance is our standard, but it appears to be a pretty straightforward reading of the text. You say that you rarely go to church, and that when you do, it is only when you feel like it, when it is convenient. That sounds to me like "the manner of some," since there are many who say they are Christians but who attend church rarely, when it is convenient to them.

So how do you figure that you "have not forsaken it by any means"?  
I haven't, and you haven't supported your claims Orthodox tradition makes apostolic doctrine knowable. I was told regular attendance at an Orthodox church, immersion in the tradition, would unveil apostolic doctrine.

But when I ask you interpret this verse, prove your claims, you fail to unveil the apostolic doctrine in this verse:

15 Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control. (1Ti 2:15 NKJ)

Being you are a regular church goer, this should have been no problem for you.

Why is it a problem, doesn't Orthodox tradition make apostolic doctrine knowable, as you and others claim?
I never said "Orthodox tradition makes apostolic doctrine knowable."  You must have me confused with another member here.

I am not following the discussion you are having with others about 1 Tim. 2:15.  It does not interest me as much as your interpretation of 1 Tim. 2:15 Heb 10:25 (Edit: Oops!).  Alfred, simply saying that you haven't forsaken assembling together does not make it so, especially when you admitted in the same virtual breath that you have forsaken it.

How do you figure that you "have not forsaken it by any means"?  
Alfred, please answer my question.
Already did, you don't like the answer. I haven't forsaken it, I still attend.

Now you answer my question, how is it the scriptures are dark to you?

And He said, "To you it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is given in parables, that`Seeing they may not see, And hearing they may not understand.' (Luk 8:10 NKJ)

Aren't you one of those it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God?
I see, you rarely attend, but you still attend, is that it?  When was the last time you attended church?  Did you attend on Sunday?  

What question would you like me to answer?  
How is it the scriptures are dark to you?

And He said, "To you it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is given in parables, that`Seeing they may not see, And hearing they may not understand.' (Luk 8:10 NKJ)


Aren't you one of those it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God?
Are the scriptures dark to me?  Have I have claimed to be "one of those it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God?"  I think you will have a difficult time finding that in one of my posts.

Your turn: When was the last time you attended church?  Did you attend on Sunday?  

Now you answer my question, how is it the scriptures are dark to you?

And He said, "To you it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is given in parables, that`Seeing they may not see, And hearing they may not understand.' (Luk 8:10 NKJ)


Aren't you one of those it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God?
I did answer your question, Alfred, but maybe I misunderstood you. How is it that you think the scriptures are dark to me?  Where in this thread or any other did I ever claim to be one of those to whom "it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God"?

Alfred, when was the last time you attended church?  Did you attend on Sunday?  Please answer my questions, which are considerably more straightforward than yours.  Please do not allow me to draw my own conclusions about you, which I will have to do without your answers.
Not so fast, you didn't answer. HOW is it you don't know? Don't you have the Holy Spirit? How is it you don't know?

But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things.
(1Jo 2:20 NKJ)

Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God (1Co 2:12 NKJ)
I will freely admit that do not know all things.  (You may draw whatever conclusions you like from that.)  For instance, I do not know when you last attended church.  

Prove to me that "you know all things" (1 John 2:20) by telling me when was the last time you attended church.
You still aren't answering HOW (or WHY) you don't know these things from God given to His children to know, by His Spirit:

Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.

How is it YOU don't know these things freely given to us by God?
(1Co 2:12 NKJ)
Well, since I have already admitted that I do not know all things, maybe I do not know the answer to your question.

But I am sure that you think that you do know all things, such as the date of your most recent church attendance.  Or maybe you do not know all things, after all.  If not, what does that say about you?
How can you not know when the text is this clear, I think you are evading the question:


NKJ  1 Corinthians 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.
Feel free to enlighten me, if you wish, for it is written "And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest? And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me?" (Acts 8:30-31)

Now please stop evading my question:  When precisely did you last attend church?  Anyone who knows all things will be able to answer this simple question.

In fact, anyone who knows all things will be able to answer this question, too: What have I got in my pocket?

You know, Alfred, now that I think about it, I should thank you for this verse:

Alfred Persson said:
Not so fast, you didn't answer. HOW is it you don't know? Don't you have the Holy Spirit? How is it you don't know?

But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things.
(1Jo 2:20 NKJ)
Alfred, according to your own method of interpreting scripture (sola scriptura), if you, Alfred, do not know all things, then you do not have an anointing from the Holy One, which you have interpreted above as having the Holy Spirit.  In other words, Alfred, from your own mouth, if you do not know all things, you do not have the Holy Spirit.  "Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." (Rom. 8:9)

So I will give you a few options to choose from, in order to prove that you know all things, that you have an anointing from the Holy One, that you have the Holy Spirit, and that, according to your own method of interpreting scripture, you are, in fact, a Christian.

1) You can tell me the date of your most recent church attendance
2) You can tell me what I have got in my pocket
3) You can evade both questions (something you have repeatedly accused members, including me, of doing, and something I would not expect from a self-described "seasoned apologist")
4) You can interpret 1 John 2:20 for me
 

Alfred Persson

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tuesdayschild said:
Alfred Persson said:
tuesdayschild said:
Alfred Persson said:
tuesdayschild said:
Alfred Persson said:
tuesdayschild said:
Alfred Persson said:
tuesdayschild said:
Alfred Persson said:
tuesdayschild said:
Alfred Persson said:
tuesdayschild said:
tuesdayschild said:
Alfred Persson said:
tuesdayschild said:
Alfred, I was going to drop this, but there is something about what you wrote that I don't understand. An answer may help me understand the way you interpret the Bible.

Alfred Persson said:
I rarely go, only when I feel like it.

They may have removed me from the membership rolls, I was warned.

Its a great church however, spirit filled believers all active in the LORD.

And I go when I can, when I feel like, when its convenient.

It is written:

not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching (Heb 10:25 NKJ)

So I have not forsaken it by any means.

I don't meet your standards, that's all.
You claim regular faithful church attendance is our standard, but it appears to be a pretty straightforward reading of the text. You say that you rarely go to church, and that when you do, it is only when you feel like it, when it is convenient. That sounds to me like "the manner of some," since there are many who say they are Christians but who attend church rarely, when it is convenient to them.

So how do you figure that you "have not forsaken it by any means"?  
I haven't, and you haven't supported your claims Orthodox tradition makes apostolic doctrine knowable. I was told regular attendance at an Orthodox church, immersion in the tradition, would unveil apostolic doctrine.

But when I ask you interpret this verse, prove your claims, you fail to unveil the apostolic doctrine in this verse:

15 Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control. (1Ti 2:15 NKJ)

Being you are a regular church goer, this should have been no problem for you.

Why is it a problem, doesn't Orthodox tradition make apostolic doctrine knowable, as you and others claim?
I never said "Orthodox tradition makes apostolic doctrine knowable."  You must have me confused with another member here.

I am not following the discussion you are having with others about 1 Tim. 2:15.  It does not interest me as much as your interpretation of 1 Tim. 2:15 Heb 10:25 (Edit: Oops!).  Alfred, simply saying that you haven't forsaken assembling together does not make it so, especially when you admitted in the same virtual breath that you have forsaken it.

How do you figure that you "have not forsaken it by any means"?  
Alfred, please answer my question.
Already did, you don't like the answer. I haven't forsaken it, I still attend.

Now you answer my question, how is it the scriptures are dark to you?

And He said, "To you it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is given in parables, that`Seeing they may not see, And hearing they may not understand.' (Luk 8:10 NKJ)

Aren't you one of those it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God?
I see, you rarely attend, but you still attend, is that it?  When was the last time you attended church?  Did you attend on Sunday?  

What question would you like me to answer?  
How is it the scriptures are dark to you?

And He said, "To you it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is given in parables, that`Seeing they may not see, And hearing they may not understand.' (Luk 8:10 NKJ)


Aren't you one of those it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God?
Are the scriptures dark to me?  Have I have claimed to be "one of those it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God?"  I think you will have a difficult time finding that in one of my posts.

Your turn: When was the last time you attended church?  Did you attend on Sunday?  

Now you answer my question, how is it the scriptures are dark to you?

And He said, "To you it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is given in parables, that`Seeing they may not see, And hearing they may not understand.' (Luk 8:10 NKJ)


Aren't you one of those it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God?
I did answer your question, Alfred, but maybe I misunderstood you. How is it that you think the scriptures are dark to me?  Where in this thread or any other did I ever claim to be one of those to whom "it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God"?

Alfred, when was the last time you attended church?  Did you attend on Sunday?  Please answer my questions, which are considerably more straightforward than yours.  Please do not allow me to draw my own conclusions about you, which I will have to do without your answers.
Not so fast, you didn't answer. HOW is it you don't know? Don't you have the Holy Spirit? How is it you don't know?

But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things.
(1Jo 2:20 NKJ)

Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God (1Co 2:12 NKJ)
I will freely admit that do not know all things.  (You may draw whatever conclusions you like from that.)  For instance, I do not know when you last attended church.  

Prove to me that "you know all things" (1 John 2:20) by telling me when was the last time you attended church.
You still aren't answering HOW (or WHY) you don't know these things from God given to His children to know, by His Spirit:

Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.

How is it YOU don't know these things freely given to us by God?
(1Co 2:12 NKJ)
Well, since I have already admitted that I do not know all things, maybe I do not know the answer to your question.

But I am sure that you think that you do know all things, such as the date of your most recent church attendance.  Or maybe you do not know all things, after all.  If not, what does that say about you?
How can you not know when the text is this clear, I think you are evading the question:


NKJ  1 Corinthians 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.
Feel free to enlighten me, if you wish, for it is written "And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest? And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me?" (Acts 8:30-31)

Now please stop evading my question:  When precisely did you last attend church?  Anyone who knows all things will be able to answer this simple question.

In fact, anyone who knows all things will be able to answer this question, too: What have I got in my pocket?

You know, Alfred, now that I think about it, I should thank you for this verse:

Alfred Persson said:
Not so fast, you didn't answer. HOW is it you don't know? Don't you have the Holy Spirit? How is it you don't know?

But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things.
(1Jo 2:20 NKJ)
Alfred, according to your own method of interpreting scripture (sola scriptura), if you, Alfred, do not know all things, then you do not have an anointing from the Holy One, which you have interpreted above as having the Holy Spirit.  In other words, Alfred, from your own mouth, if you do not know all things, you do not have the Holy Spirit.  "Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." (Rom. 8:9)

So I will give you a few options to choose from, in order to prove that you know all things, that you have an anointing from the Holy One, that you have the Holy Spirit, and that, according to your own method of interpreting scripture, you are, in fact, a Christian.

1) You can tell me the date of your most recent church attendance
2) You can tell me what I have got in my pocket
3) You can evade both questions (something you have repeatedly accused members, including me, of doing, and something I would not expect from a self-described "seasoned apologist")
4) You can interpret 1 John 2:20 for me
I can't give out personal information to someone who has not the Spirit of Christ making known to him the things of God.

Therefore I refuse your request for personal information.
 

Ortho_cat

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Alfred Persson said:
I can't give out personal information to someone who has not the Spirit of Christ making known to him the things of God.

Therefore I refuse your request for personal information.
So now you have the ability to be able to discern who has the Spirit of Christ living within them and who doesn't?? You sir, are full of yourself.  :mad:

 

Marc1152

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I'll answer.

An old Cracker Jack Prize. Thirty seven cents. One Tums. A Pen and an old tissue.
 

tuesdayschild

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Alfred Persson said:
tuesdayschild said:
You know, Alfred, now that I think about it, I should thank you for this verse:

Alfred Persson said:
Not so fast, you didn't answer. HOW is it you don't know? Don't you have the Holy Spirit? How is it you don't know?

But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things.
(1Jo 2:20 NKJ)
Alfred, according to your own method of interpreting scripture (sola scriptura), if you, Alfred, do not know all things, then you do not have an anointing from the Holy One, which you have interpreted above as having the Holy Spirit.  In other words, Alfred, from your own mouth, if you do not know all things, you do not have the Holy Spirit.  "Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." (Rom. 8:9)

So I will give you a few options to choose from, in order to prove that you know all things, that you have an anointing from the Holy One, that you have the Holy Spirit, and that, according to your own method of interpreting scripture, you are, in fact, a Christian.

1) You can tell me the date of your most recent church attendance
2) You can tell me what I have got in my pocket
3) You can evade both questions (something you have repeatedly accused members, including me, of doing, and something I would not expect from a self-described "seasoned apologist")
4) You can interpret 1 John 2:20 for me
I can't give out personal information to someone who has not the Spirit of Christ making known to him the things of God.

Therefore I refuse your request for personal information.
Okay. I will ignore the insult for the moment, and I'll get back to the matter of your church attendance later. But that still leaves options 2, 3 and 4.
 

tuesdayschild

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Marc1152 said:
I'll answer.

An old Cracker Jack Prize. Thirty seven cents. One Tums. A Pen and an old tissue.
Either that is a line from a movie, or you should empty your pockets once in a while.  :D
 

Alfred Persson

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tuesdayschild said:
Alfred Persson said:
tuesdayschild said:
You know, Alfred, now that I think about it, I should thank you for this verse:

Alfred Persson said:
Not so fast, you didn't answer. HOW is it you don't know? Don't you have the Holy Spirit? How is it you don't know?

But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things.
(1Jo 2:20 NKJ)
Alfred, according to your own method of interpreting scripture (sola scriptura), if you, Alfred, do not know all things, then you do not have an anointing from the Holy One, which you have interpreted above as having the Holy Spirit.  In other words, Alfred, from your own mouth, if you do not know all things, you do not have the Holy Spirit.  "Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." (Rom. 8:9)

So I will give you a few options to choose from, in order to prove that you know all things, that you have an anointing from the Holy One, that you have the Holy Spirit, and that, according to your own method of interpreting scripture, you are, in fact, a Christian.

1) You can tell me the date of your most recent church attendance
2) You can tell me what I have got in my pocket
3) You can evade both questions (something you have repeatedly accused members, including me, of doing, and something I would not expect from a self-described "seasoned apologist")
4) You can interpret 1 John 2:20 for me
I can't give out personal information to someone who has not the Spirit of Christ making known to him the things of God.

Therefore I refuse your request for personal information.
Okay. I will ignore the insult for the moment, and I'll get back to the matter of your church attendance later. But that still leaves options 2, 3 and 4.
I won't give you any personal information, period.


I don't trust a man who can read this, tell me they don't know the things of God, and won't tell me how that can be:

Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.
(1Co 2:12 NKJ)


Until you answer that question, I'll be ignoring your requests, its not a one way street with only me doing the answering...until you answer, ignore button is on.





 
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