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Maximum family sizes...good idea or bad?

Ortho_cat

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So what would you all think if all other nations starting adopting a 3 children limit for families, enforced by mandatory sterilization? Do you think US should follow such an initiative? If not, how do we prevent rapid population growth?
 

Achronos

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Bad idea to force sterilization on people. Limiting married couples freedom to procreate how many children they want another problem.

If anything my generation will take of the population decline with its selfishness and narcissism.
 

Marc1152

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Ortho_cat said:
So what would you all think if all other nations starting adopting a 3 children limit for families, enforced by mandatory sterilization? Do you think US should follow such an initiative? If not, how do we prevent rapid population growth?
Over population is a myth. In fact, we better get going in the USA and crank out far more babies. Russia is even worse off. They are considering giving huge tax breaks for having larger families.

Here is the best site on the internet to learn more: www.pop.org
 

Achronos

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The population density in the midwest to west isn't even close to as high as the east. We have plenty of room to expand if we need to.
 

Apples

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Forced sterilization is morally reprehensible, under any circumstances.
 

Achronos

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William said:
Forced sterilization is morally reprehensible, under any circumstances.
So sterilization is going to be OC.net's next favorite argument in 3..2..1...
 

Shanghaiski

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Ortho_cat said:
So what would you all think if all other nations starting adopting a 3 children limit for families, enforced by mandatory sterilization? Do you think US should follow such an initiative? If not, how do we prevent rapid population growth?
Rapid population growth is something of a myth.

Populations are localized. And controlling population growth brings its own problems. In places that have draconian laws like China, a country looking at revising its policy, there are not enough workers born to support the existing population. In Europe, there is the same problem due to a decline in birth rates. If you really want to control population, you don't start with babies, you start killing off old people.
 

Marc1152

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Achronos said:
William said:
Forced sterilization is morally reprehensible, under any circumstances.
So sterilization is going to be OC.net's next favorite argument in 3..2..1...
Take a look at how this has worked out in China.. Not good. Not good at all
 

Shanghaiski

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Achronos said:
The population density in the midwest to west isn't even close to as high as the east. We have plenty of room to expand if we need to.
And, as small farms close, Midwestern population is decreasing even more. It's becoming unsustainable to live in one-horse towns.
 

Kerdy

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Ortho_cat said:
So what would you all think if all other nations starting adopting a 3 children limit for families, enforced by mandatory sterilization? Do you think US should follow such an initiative? If not, how do we prevent rapid population growth?
I have never thought America should follow any other nation about anything.  But to answer your question, this would certainly be a violation of the constitution.  If you remember, some states attempted to sterilize women in the past and it didn’t go so well.

Rapid population growth?  I think legalized genocide in the form of abortion is doing a bang up job of that.  

People can have as many kids as they want as long as they are prepared to support them.
 

Marc1152

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Shanghaiski said:
Ortho_cat said:
So what would you all think if all other nations starting adopting a 3 children limit for families, enforced by mandatory sterilization? Do you think US should follow such an initiative? If not, how do we prevent rapid population growth?
Rapid population growth is something of a myth.

Populations are localized. And controlling population growth brings its own problems. In places that have draconian laws like China, a country looking at revising its policy, there are not enough workers born to support the existing population. In Europe, there is the same problem due to a decline in birth rates. If you really want to control population, you don't start with babies, you start killing off old people.
Exactly right. Plus there is no real need to do either.
 

Achronos

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Marc1152 said:
Achronos said:
William said:
Forced sterilization is morally reprehensible, under any circumstances.
So sterilization is going to be OC.net's next favorite argument in 3..2..1...
Take a look at how this has worked out in China.. Not good. Not good at all
Anybody with an IQ lower than 100 must be sterlized during their puberty.
 

Apples

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Achronos said:
William said:
Forced sterilization is morally reprehensible, under any circumstances.
So sterilization is going to be OC.net's next favorite argument in 3..2..1...
This is controversial amongst Orthodox Christians?
 

Achronos

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William said:
Achronos said:
William said:
Forced sterilization is morally reprehensible, under any circumstances.
So sterilization is going to be OC.net's next favorite argument in 3..2..1...
This is controversial amongst Orthodox Christians?
I asked the same question about birth control but I was wrong.
 

Shanghaiski

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Achronos said:
Marc1152 said:
Achronos said:
William said:
Forced sterilization is morally reprehensible, under any circumstances.
So sterilization is going to be OC.net's next favorite argument in 3..2..1...
Take a look at how this has worked out in China.. Not good. Not good at all
Anybody with an IQ lower than 100 must be sterlized during their puberty.
I hope they don't measure the IQ during puberty. We'd have no children then. :angel:
 

Achronos

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Shanghaiski said:
Achronos said:
Marc1152 said:
Achronos said:
William said:
Forced sterilization is morally reprehensible, under any circumstances.
So sterilization is going to be OC.net's next favorite argument in 3..2..1...
Take a look at how this has worked out in China.. Not good. Not good at all
Anybody with an IQ lower than 100 must be sterlized during their puberty.
I hope they don't measure the IQ during puberty. We'd have no children then. :angel:
lol twas a joke. I remember hearing the same thing the OP said but in a different light from Adam Corolla on Loveline, about how he hated impoverished and uneducated mothers reproducing without having the means to support them or supporting them by using the government for aid.
 

Ortho_cat

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Marc1152 said:
Ortho_cat said:
So what would you all think if all other nations starting adopting a 3 children limit for families, enforced by mandatory sterilization? Do you think US should follow such an initiative? If not, how do we prevent rapid population growth?
Over population is a myth. In fact, we better get going in the USA and crank out far more babies. Russia is even worse off. They are considering giving huge tax breaks for having larger families.

Here is the best site on the internet to learn more: www.pop.org

Are you denying that the world's population is growing at an exponential rate, or asserting that the world can hold an unlimited amount of people on it?
 

Ortho_cat

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"In a study titled Food, Land, Population and the U.S. Economy, David Pimentel, professor of ecology and agriculture at Cornell University, and Mario Giampietro, senior researcher at the US National Research Institute on Food and Nutrition (INRAN), estimate the maximum U.S. population for a sustainable economy at 200 million. And in order to achieve a sustainable economy and avert disaster, the United States would have to reduce its population by at least one-third, and world population would have to be reduced by two-thirds.[55]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overpopulation
 

yeshuaisiam

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Ortho_cat said:
So what would you all think if all other nations starting adopting a 3 children limit for families, enforced by mandatory sterilization? Do you think US should follow such an initiative? If not, how do we prevent rapid population growth?
This is Eugenics propaganda planned by people that are far from Christians.

We do not have a population growth problem.  Take a drive out of the city and into the country and you will see it.   15 goats can be raised on 1 acre of land and fully self sustain, and that's with chickens.  People would need just a bit more.  There is so much vast and empty land out there....

To make a law and force other people at gunpoint (all laws are enforced with a gun) to be sterilized, is one of the most un-Christian things I can think of.  Children are a blessing from God.  The matrimony service recognizes this, as well as other parts in the old and new testament.

I have 5 children, and our home is very low impact.  Our electric bill is 1/5th of those around us.  Much of our food comes from our animals.

You don't even need to drive out there.  Go to google maps, go to purdon, TX and look at the satellite.  It's a small town southeast of the Dallas area.  Lots and lots of land, and this is not the least populated spots either.  There is TONS of land.  Go up through the Texas panhandle, Oklahoma panhandle... Montana... Tons and tons of land open and empty. 

 

Ortho_cat

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Worst Environmental Problem? Overpopulation, Experts Say

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/04/090418075752.htm
 

yeshuaisiam

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Ortho_cat said:
Worst Environmental Problem? Overpopulation, Experts Say

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/04/090418075752.htm
I promise you this is Eugenics propaganda brother.

Look
http://maps.google.com/?ll=36.144529,-100.681458&spn=1.104532,2.705383&t=h&z=9
(I just did that random)
Go through the midwest and all over.  Lots of acreage for people, livestock, sustainment.

Check out Montana, you could have people all in there with livestock...  There is such vast openness.
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=butte,+mt&hl=en&ll=45.994099,-112.37915&spn=0.475127,1.352692&sll=36.789319,-101.204102&sspn=0.008558,0.029311&t=h&hnear=Butte,+Silver+Bow,+Montana&z=10
 

Asteriktos

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I read the other day that one of GK Chesterton's close relatives (a grandparent I think) had 23 children. What more evidence do we need that limits are needed!?  :D

Also, GiC would have a field day with this thread!
 

Kerdy

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Ortho_cat said:
Worst Environmental Problem? Overpopulation, Experts Say

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/04/090418075752.htm
"Experts" say a lot of things and turn out to be wrong.  Remember man made global warming?
 

Kerdy

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yeshuaisiam said:
I promise you this is Eugenics propaganda
I agree.  Why is it no one ever learns anything from history.  Wait, I know.  It gets revised.
 

Ortho_cat

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Kerdy said:
Ortho_cat said:
Worst Environmental Problem? Overpopulation, Experts Say

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/04/090418075752.htm
"Experts" say a lot of things and turn out to be wrong.  Remember man made global warming?
do you deny that also?
 

Achronos

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Kerdy said:
yeshuaisiam said:
I promise you this is Eugenics propaganda
I agree.  Why is it no one ever learns anything from history.  Wait, I know.  It gets revised.
It's kind of like how people try to still promulagate communism still when it has been tried and failed for centuries. It just doesn't work, but that doesn't stop people from pushing it.

Anyway back to the OP, I'd love to see some statistics of growth in this country, at what rate and at what locations.
 

Kerdy

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Ortho_cat said:
Kerdy said:
Ortho_cat said:
Worst Environmental Problem? Overpopulation, Experts Say

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/04/090418075752.htm
"Experts" say a lot of things and turn out to be wrong.  Remember man made global warming?
do you deny that also?
Global warming caused by man?  You bet.  I should think almost everyone other than Al Gore knows it was all a ruse by now.
 

Marc1152

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Ortho_cat said:
Marc1152 said:
Ortho_cat said:
So what would you all think if all other nations starting adopting a 3 children limit for families, enforced by mandatory sterilization? Do you think US should follow such an initiative? If not, how do we prevent rapid population growth?
Over population is a myth. In fact, we better get going in the USA and crank out far more babies. Russia is even worse off. They are considering giving huge tax breaks for having larger families.

Here is the best site on the internet to learn more: www.pop.org

Are you denying that the world's population is growing at an exponential rate, or asserting that the world can hold an unlimited amount of people on it?
Yes indeed I am.. Population is not growing exponentially. In fact, it is slowing down and will peak in 25 years and then we will lose population.

It's a math thing :)

Here is a really good video that will explain it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=iodJ0OOdgRg
 

Ortho_cat

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Marc1152 said:
Ortho_cat said:
Marc1152 said:
Ortho_cat said:
So what would you all think if all other nations starting adopting a 3 children limit for families, enforced by mandatory sterilization? Do you think US should follow such an initiative? If not, how do we prevent rapid population growth?
Over population is a myth. In fact, we better get going in the USA and crank out far more babies. Russia is even worse off. They are considering giving huge tax breaks for having larger families.

Here is the best site on the internet to learn more: www.pop.org

Are you denying that the world's population is growing at an exponential rate, or asserting that the world can hold an unlimited amount of people on it?
Yes indeed I am.. Population is not growing exponentially. In fact, it is slowing down and will peak in 25 years and then we will lose population.

It's a math thing :)

Here is a really good video that will explain it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=iodJ0OOdgRg
Oh I have no doubt that there will be a massive reduction in population eventually after countries hit the "breaking point". My concern is that it will be conducted by destructive means such as genocide and infanticide (rampant abortion) and war over resources/territory. I'd rather we get population under control by preventional means rather than other methods.

There is no guarantee that it will level off after 25 years. That is pure speculation.  There are too many factors at play to say such a thing with any certitude.
 

Kerdy

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Marc1152 said:
Ortho_cat said:
Marc1152 said:
Ortho_cat said:
So what would you all think if all other nations starting adopting a 3 children limit for families, enforced by mandatory sterilization? Do you think US should follow such an initiative? If not, how do we prevent rapid population growth?
Over population is a myth. In fact, we better get going in the USA and crank out far more babies. Russia is even worse off. They are considering giving huge tax breaks for having larger families.

Here is the best site on the internet to learn more: www.pop.org

Are you denying that the world's population is growing at an exponential rate, or asserting that the world can hold an unlimited amount of people on it?
Yes indeed I am.. Population is not growing exponentially. In fact, it is slowing down and will peak in 25 years and then we will lose population.

It's a math thing :)

Here is a really good video that will explain it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=iodJ0OOdgRg
I watched them all.  I can't say how accurate it is without seeing actual numbers, but it certainly is something to think about.  The entire world population in with a house and a yard in the size of Texas.  
 

JamesR

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Instead we should focus on convincing people to adopt because there are millions of perfectly good children out there in need of a good home but most people are stubborn and just make their own as if blood means anything.

Kerdy said:
The entire world population in with a house and a yard in the size of Texas. 
The issue is not size; it is resources. Even if we can fit those people in Texas, would we really have enough resources to sustain them? I blame China and India for this problem. Because they can't control their population they are screwing over the rest of us.
 

Achronos

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JamesR said:
Instead we should focus on convincing people to adopt because there are millions of perfectly good children out there in need of a good home but most people are stubborn and just make their own as if blood means anything.
It means alot actually.
 

Azurestone

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Achronos said:
JamesR said:
Instead we should focus on convincing people to adopt because there are millions of perfectly good children out there in need of a good home but most people are stubborn and just make their own as if blood means anything.
It means alot actually.
How Protestant of you.
 

Kerdy

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Achronos said:
JamesR said:
Instead we should focus on convincing people to adopt because there are millions of perfectly good children out there in need of a good home but most people are stubborn and just make their own as if blood means anything.
It means alot actually.
I am all for adoption.  The problem in the US is the government makes it too difficult and expensive.  When it is easier and cheaper to fly to another country, twice, and adopt a child, the program here needs to be adjusted.
 

Achronos

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Aindriú said:
Achronos said:
JamesR said:
Instead we should focus on convincing people to adopt because there are millions of perfectly good children out there in need of a good home but most people are stubborn and just make their own as if blood means anything.
It means alot actually.
How Protestant of you.
ROFL

I'm dying over here.
 

JamesR

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Achronos said:
JamesR said:
Instead we should focus on convincing people to adopt because there are millions of perfectly good children out there in need of a good home but most people are stubborn and just make their own as if blood means anything.
It means alot actually.
Oh come on. We are no longer barbarians whose only means of trusting someone is if they share our blood. If people actually started just adopting children we would see a much better population along with children being provided proper homes.
 

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Achronos said:
Kerdy said:
yeshuaisiam said:
I promise you this is Eugenics propaganda
I agree.  Why is it no one ever learns anything from history.  Wait, I know.  It gets revised.
It's kind of like how people try to still promulagate communism still when it has been tried and failed for centuries. It just doesn't work, but that doesn't stop people from pushing it.

Anyway back to the OP, I'd love to see some statistics of growth in this country, at what rate and at what locations.
The growth of U.S. population  

The United States is the third most populous country in the world following China and India. The U.S. population, currently more than 265 million, is growing by about 2.5 million people each year, making the United States one of the world's fastest-growing industrialized nations.(1)
In 1994, there were about 3.95 million births and 2.29 million deaths in the United States, resulting in a net natural increase of nearly 1.7 million more people. Net immigration added approximately 816,000 people.(2)
The Census Bureau projects that in the year 2000, the U.S. population will exceed 275 million, more than double the 1940 population.(3)
By 2050, the nation's population is projected to increase by nearly 130 million people -- the equivalent of adding another four states the size of California.(4)
Sixty percent of pregnancies and 40 percent of births in the United States are unintended. Among industrialized countries, it has one of the highest rates of teenage pregnancy.(5)

The impacts of U.S. Population  

Because Americans eat a diet heavy in beef and other animal products, U.S. per capita grain consumption is four times higher than that of developing countries.(6)
Americans constitute five percent of the world's population but consume 25 percent of the world's energy. On average, one American consumes as much energy as 2 Japanese, 6 Mexicans, 13 Chinese, 31 Indians, 128 Bangladeshis, 307 Tanzanians, or 370 Ethiopians.(7)
The United States is responsible for 22 percent of the world's industrial carbon dioxide emissions, a leading cause of global warming.(8)
In the last 200 years, the United States has lost 50 percent of its wetlands, 90 percent of its northwestern old-growth forests, and 99 percent of its tall grass prairie.(9)
Every day, an estimated nine square miles of U.S. rural land is lost to development.(10)

http://www.overpopulation.org/USAFactsZPG.html

Overpopulation is affected by things such as birth rate, immigration, and longevity.

 

JamesR

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Just give it a couple more decades guys. Tension is brewing all around the world. Soon we'll have another world war where millions die and that'll restore the population  ::)
 
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