• For users new and old: the forum rules were streamlined when we transitioned to the new software. Please ensure that you are familiar with them. Continued use of the forum means that you (a) know the rules, and (b) pledge that you'll abide by them. For more information, check out the OrthodoxChristianity.Net Rules section. (There are only 2 threads there - Rules, and Administrative Structure.)

Medical treatment for animals

JamesRottnek

Taxiarches
Joined
Feb 4, 2010
Messages
6,256
Reaction score
1
Points
0
Age
27
Location
Mesa, AZ
So in another thread it was mentioned that somebody's neighbor is having their dog go through chemo because it has cancer.  I'm curious as to how much people here are willing to spend to treat medical problems in their animals.
 

Maria

Toumarches
Joined
Aug 8, 2003
Messages
14,023
Reaction score
1
Points
0
Location
USA
Website
www.euphrosynoscafe.com
JamesRottnek said:
So in another thread it was mentioned that somebody's neighbor is having their dog go through chemo because it has cancer.  I'm curious as to how much people here are willing to spend to treat medical problems in their animals.
My neighbor has spent at least $10,000 so far, and he is willing to spend more time and money because he loves his pet.

He looked into pet insurance, but one of his friends had pet insurance and it would not cover expensive cancer treatments. Overall, she paid more in insurance premiums than she did for the cancer treatments.
 

Asteriktos

Strategos
Joined
Oct 4, 2002
Messages
39,585
Reaction score
331
Points
83
A large part of it would be dependent on how much money I had. If money was no issue then I'd do what could be done. If I was barely putting food on the table then fido would be out of luck. In between, I suppose, is what you're really asking about though. And I'm not sure about that. How far would I be willing to go, once it started requiring actual sacrifice on my part? I don't know.
 

Shanghaiski

Merarches
Joined
Dec 26, 2009
Messages
8,025
Reaction score
26
Points
48
Age
42
Location
Wisconsin, USA
JamesRottnek said:
So in another thread it was mentioned that somebody's neighbor is having their dog go through chemo because it has cancer.  I'm curious as to how much people here are willing to spend to treat medical problems in their animals.
I don't believe in spending to excess on animals. Of course, now many would deny the very notion that there is such a thing as excess.
 

JamesRottnek

Taxiarches
Joined
Feb 4, 2010
Messages
6,256
Reaction score
1
Points
0
Age
27
Location
Mesa, AZ
I cannot fathom spending $10,000 on an animal even over the whole of its life (unless, I suppose, they lived long enough that there food added up over time), no matter how much money I have available.  It makes me wonder about people's priorities to hear that they spend ten grand on cancer treatment for their dog, when there are plenty of human beings who are going bankrupt over medical expenses.  I suppose I'm mostly just curious as to whether or not putting down an animal with any major medical issue is common or if it just means I'm a heartless jerk.
 

JamesRottnek

Taxiarches
Joined
Feb 4, 2010
Messages
6,256
Reaction score
1
Points
0
Age
27
Location
Mesa, AZ
Shanghaiski said:
JamesRottnek said:
So in another thread it was mentioned that somebody's neighbor is having their dog go through chemo because it has cancer.  I'm curious as to how much people here are willing to spend to treat medical problems in their animals.
I don't believe in spending to excess on animals. Of course, now many would deny the very notion that there is such a thing as excess.
That's true.
 

Shanghaiski

Merarches
Joined
Dec 26, 2009
Messages
8,025
Reaction score
26
Points
48
Age
42
Location
Wisconsin, USA
JamesRottnek said:
I cannot fathom spending $10,000 on an animal even over the whole of its life (unless, I suppose, they lived long enough that there food added up over time), no matter how much money I have available.  It makes me wonder about people's priorities to hear that they spend ten grand on cancer treatment for their dog, when there are plenty of human beings who are going bankrupt over medical expenses.  I suppose I'm mostly just curious as to whether or not putting down an animal with any major medical issue is common or if it just means I'm a heartless jerk.
I think putting animals down when medical treatments were unavailable or bills too high was quite common. Now, with medicine becoming more and more a consumer-driven industry catering to human vanity to higher and higher degrees, you have people spending and doing because they can. The fact that it can be done becomes in some people's minds an idea that it should be done.
 

JamesR

Taxiarches
Joined
Nov 4, 2011
Messages
6,924
Reaction score
2
Points
0
Age
25
Location
The Underground
Anything more than $100-$300 seems really unnecessary to me. Yeah I love animals but I'm not going to spend excessive amounts of money on one when millions of people are living in poverty and dying. I would just put my animal down and if that is too much money then I suppose I'll have to do it myself with grandpa's shotgun.
 

yeshuaisiam

Protokentarchos
Joined
Oct 20, 2010
Messages
4,695
Reaction score
0
Points
0
JamesRottnek said:
So in another thread it was mentioned that somebody's neighbor is having their dog go through chemo because it has cancer.  I'm curious as to how much people here are willing to spend to treat medical problems in their animals.
Well, I'm glad this is the area of "free for all" because this is gonna sound controversial for sure.

Heck no.  No way, no how.  People spend sometimes $10k-30k for their pet's treatments.  They are animals.  Whether or not you love a pet.

There are people right now in this world, our brothers and sisters in Christ, who desperately need help.

Animals are here to serve us.  If its something simple sure.  Be humane.  Be a good owner of the animal.  Use sense.  But if I ever found myself about to spend in excess of $1k on an animal, I would first suggest taking a drive into some of American's slums.

I've seen Russian immigrant children living in a ghetto NYC apartment basement who slept on milk crates covered with a thin blanket to keep off the floor.  To think $10k for a dog, or buy some human beings a $100 mattress.....  I think you get my point. 

Like I said controversial, and I like animals, and live on a small farm with many animals.

 
Joined
Apr 10, 2011
Messages
3,125
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Sydney, Australia
JamesR said:
Anything more than $100-$300 seems really unnecessary to me. Yeah I love animals but I'm not going to spend excessive amounts of money on one when millions of people are living in poverty and dying. I would just put my animal down and if that is too much money then I suppose I'll have to do it myself with grandpa's shotgun.
My dog cost me way more than that. I don't know why I wouldn't spend that amount again if it would mean prolonging his enjoyment of life (and my enjoyment of his life) for a few more years.
 

Cognomen

Archon
Site Supporter
Joined
Sep 14, 2010
Messages
2,182
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Archdiocese of Baghdad, Kuwait and Dependencies
akimori makoto said:
JamesR said:
Anything more than $100-$300 seems really unnecessary to me. Yeah I love animals but I'm not going to spend excessive amounts of money on one when millions of people are living in poverty and dying. I would just put my animal down and if that is too much money then I suppose I'll have to do it myself with grandpa's shotgun.
My dog cost me way more than that. I don't know why I wouldn't spend that amount again if it would mean prolonging his enjoyment of life (and my enjoyment of his life) for a few more years.
Same. If you aren't willing to pay that amount, don't keep a dog as a pet. 

Hats off to all of those in this thread who actually put all of their discretionary funding towards charity. If you've spent more on video games, movies, house decorations, surround sound theaters, or whatever than I did on my dog, I suggest you hold your tongue.

Some costs, e.g. $10k doggie chemotherapy and such, are way out of bounds, but normal "maintenance" can be quite expensive.

My dog is one of my best investments.
 

Crucifer

Archon
Joined
Jun 9, 2004
Messages
3,068
Reaction score
2
Points
38
Age
61
Location
VA
Website
www.uscj.org
I've spent as much as $1200 a pop on procedures for one of our doggies. We'll spend money on proper care for them when necessary. But we make informed decisions; since I'm a nurse I know what quwstions to ask. Our guidelines are we will only treat reversable or manageable conditions, we'll agree on what point to consider euthanasia and we'll put the doggies well being aheqad of our feelings. My opinion (just my opinion) is that some folks prolong a pet's life long after the time the pet is happy and  comfortable only to avoid making the big decision, putting thier needs ahead of the pet's. this isn't an academic question for me:
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,44524.0.html
 

JamesRottnek

Taxiarches
Joined
Feb 4, 2010
Messages
6,256
Reaction score
1
Points
0
Age
27
Location
Mesa, AZ
Cognomen said:
akimori makoto said:
JamesR said:
Anything more than $100-$300 seems really unnecessary to me. Yeah I love animals but I'm not going to spend excessive amounts of money on one when millions of people are living in poverty and dying. I would just put my animal down and if that is too much money then I suppose I'll have to do it myself with grandpa's shotgun.
My dog cost me way more than that. I don't know why I wouldn't spend that amount again if it would mean prolonging his enjoyment of life (and my enjoyment of his life) for a few more years.
Same. If you aren't willing to pay that amount, don't keep a dog as a pet. 

Hats off to all of those in this thread who actually put all of their discretionary funding towards charity. If you've spent more on video games, movies, house decorations, surround sound theaters, or whatever than I did on my dog, I suggest you hold your tongue.

Some costs, e.g. $10k doggie chemotherapy and such, are way out of bounds, but normal "maintenance" can be quite expensive.

My dog is one of my best investments.
I've had several dogs, including one that lived 16 years, and that my family got before I was born.  Never have any of them had an expense exceeding a few hundred dollars.
 

Cognomen

Archon
Site Supporter
Joined
Sep 14, 2010
Messages
2,182
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Archdiocese of Baghdad, Kuwait and Dependencies
JamesRottnek said:
Cognomen said:
akimori makoto said:
JamesR said:
Anything more than $100-$300 seems really unnecessary to me. Yeah I love animals but I'm not going to spend excessive amounts of money on one when millions of people are living in poverty and dying. I would just put my animal down and if that is too much money then I suppose I'll have to do it myself with grandpa's shotgun.
My dog cost me way more than that. I don't know why I wouldn't spend that amount again if it would mean prolonging his enjoyment of life (and my enjoyment of his life) for a few more years.
Same. If you aren't willing to pay that amount, don't keep a dog as a pet. 

Hats off to all of those in this thread who actually put all of their discretionary funding towards charity. If you've spent more on video games, movies, house decorations, surround sound theaters, or whatever than I did on my dog, I suggest you hold your tongue.

Some costs, e.g. $10k doggie chemotherapy and such, are way out of bounds, but normal "maintenance" can be quite expensive.

My dog is one of my best investments.
I've had several dogs, including one that lived 16 years, and that my family got before I was born.  Never have any of them had an expense exceeding a few hundred dollars.
Well then, you're the expert, and I'm ill informed. Your family was fortunate. So if your pups issues had cost a bit more, axe to the back of the neck?
 
Joined
Apr 10, 2011
Messages
3,125
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Sydney, Australia
Cognomen said:
JamesRottnek said:
Cognomen said:
akimori makoto said:
JamesR said:
Anything more than $100-$300 seems really unnecessary to me. Yeah I love animals but I'm not going to spend excessive amounts of money on one when millions of people are living in poverty and dying. I would just put my animal down and if that is too much money then I suppose I'll have to do it myself with grandpa's shotgun.
My dog cost me way more than that. I don't know why I wouldn't spend that amount again if it would mean prolonging his enjoyment of life (and my enjoyment of his life) for a few more years.
Same. If you aren't willing to pay that amount, don't keep a dog as a pet. 

Hats off to all of those in this thread who actually put all of their discretionary funding towards charity. If you've spent more on video games, movies, house decorations, surround sound theaters, or whatever than I did on my dog, I suggest you hold your tongue.

Some costs, e.g. $10k doggie chemotherapy and such, are way out of bounds, but normal "maintenance" can be quite expensive.

My dog is one of my best investments.
I've had several dogs, including one that lived 16 years, and that my family got before I was born.  Never have any of them had an expense exceeding a few hundred dollars.
Well then, you're the expert, and I'm ill informed. Your family was fortunate. So if your pups issues had cost a bit more, axe to the back of the neck?
Yeah, James, what do you want, a gold star? What was the point of that comment?
 

JamesRottnek

Taxiarches
Joined
Feb 4, 2010
Messages
6,256
Reaction score
1
Points
0
Age
27
Location
Mesa, AZ
akimori makoto said:
Cognomen said:
JamesRottnek said:
Cognomen said:
akimori makoto said:
JamesR said:
Anything more than $100-$300 seems really unnecessary to me. Yeah I love animals but I'm not going to spend excessive amounts of money on one when millions of people are living in poverty and dying. I would just put my animal down and if that is too much money then I suppose I'll have to do it myself with grandpa's shotgun.
My dog cost me way more than that. I don't know why I wouldn't spend that amount again if it would mean prolonging his enjoyment of life (and my enjoyment of his life) for a few more years.
Same. If you aren't willing to pay that amount, don't keep a dog as a pet. 

Hats off to all of those in this thread who actually put all of their discretionary funding towards charity. If you've spent more on video games, movies, house decorations, surround sound theaters, or whatever than I did on my dog, I suggest you hold your tongue.

Some costs, e.g. $10k doggie chemotherapy and such, are way out of bounds, but normal "maintenance" can be quite expensive.

My dog is one of my best investments.
I've had several dogs, including one that lived 16 years, and that my family got before I was born.  Never have any of them had an expense exceeding a few hundred dollars.
Well then, you're the expert, and I'm ill informed. Your family was fortunate. So if your pups issues had cost a bit more, axe to the back of the neck?
Yeah, James, what do you want, a gold star? What was the point of that comment?
My point was to respond to the statement "So if you aren't willing to pay that amount, don't keep a dog as a pet." 

A dog is not a human being, I do not think any great amount of money needs to be paid to prolong one's life. 
 

HouseOfGod

Sr. Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2012
Messages
203
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
24
My family's cat recently got very sick, I think the bill was up to 800-1000 dollars when my mom started to say, "How much is too much?" None of us want to see our cat die, but if the treatment isn't seeming like it would help him in the long run, it's a difficult choice to make when to stop and just say it's better this way. Luckily, our cat soon improved, so we didn't have to make that choice. He still makes me happy all the time :)
Quick edit: We ended up spending 800-1000 dollars, by the way, it didn't run up higher

 

Asteriktos

Strategos
Joined
Oct 4, 2002
Messages
39,585
Reaction score
331
Points
83
Some people would pay $30,000 for a car when a $15,000 car would do just fine.
Some people would pay $150,000 for a house when a $75,000 house would do just fine.
Some people would pay $30,000 for a wedding when a $15,000 wedding would do just fine.

I wouldn't judge people for spending more if that's what makes them happy. If that's how they want to spend their money, and they have the money to spend, then whatever. But when it's perfectly normal in our country to spend tens of thousands of dollars more than is necessary on cars, weddings, and houses, I don't see what is so strange about spending it on a pet you love and consider part of your family.
 

HouseOfGod

Sr. Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2012
Messages
203
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
24
Asteriktos said:
Some people would pay $30,000 for a car when a $15,000 car would do just fine.
Some people would pay $150,000 for a house when a $75,000 house would do just fine.
Some people would pay $30,000 for a wedding when a $15,000 wedding would do just fine.

I wouldn't judge people for spending more if that's what makes them happy. If that's how they want to spend their money, and they have the money to spend, then whatever. But when it's perfectly normal in our country to spend tens of thousands of dollars more than is necessary on cars, weddings, and houses, I don't see what is so strange about spending it on a pet you love and consider part of your family.
That's a rather excellent way to put it :)
 

JamesRottnek

Taxiarches
Joined
Feb 4, 2010
Messages
6,256
Reaction score
1
Points
0
Age
27
Location
Mesa, AZ
Asteriktos said:
Some people would pay $30,000 for a car when a $15,000 car would do just fine.
Some people would pay $150,000 for a house when a $75,000 house would do just fine.
Some people would pay $30,000 for a wedding when a $15,000 wedding would do just fine.

I wouldn't judge people for spending more if that's what makes them happy. If that's how they want to spend their money, and they have the money to spend, then whatever. But when it's perfectly normal in our country to spend tens of thousands of dollars more than is necessary on cars, weddings, and houses, I don't see what is so strange about spending it on a pet you love and consider part of your family.
That is a fairly good way to put it.
 

elephant

High Elder
Joined
Mar 17, 2011
Messages
692
Reaction score
1
Points
0
Dear James,

There are endless examples where people value things differently, even inanimate objects.  For instance, I might take care to handle a paper icon with respect, but to another person it might be irrelevant as a take-out menu.  There are also examples where people don't even value human life, or consider humans to be undifferentiated utility items. 

Our forefather Adam was called to be a steward of creation, and he named the animals.  The Good Shepherd calls each of the sheep by name.  This parable may not be about actual sheep, but our Lord used this imagery for a reason. 

Perhaps our ability to care for God's creation has been distorted in the fallen world, leading to excesses in both directions.  It may be irresponsible to prolong the life of a pet. It may also be irresponsible to kill a pet because it is an inconvenience. 

Love, elephant

 

jmbejdl

OC.Net Guru
Joined
Jan 28, 2005
Messages
1,480
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
45
Location
Aylesbury
I'm amazed at what some of you think is a lot of money - I can only assume you don't keep pets. I can't afford thousands (or even hundreds) on an illness or injury, which is why we insure our dog. It's a good thing too because about 18 months ago she was hit by a car and fixing her broken leg cost our insurance company over £4000. To be honest I think that if you aren't willing to pay out for the insurance (or the medical fees if you have no insurance) then you have no business keeping an animal. I couldn't (and wouldn't - it's probably crueller than putting them down) put a dog through chemo but there's a world of difference between cancer and a broken leg.

James
 

age234

High Elder
Joined
Jun 30, 2009
Messages
559
Reaction score
0
Points
0
JamesR said:
Cognomen said:
Same. If you aren't willing to pay that amount, don't keep a dog as a pet.
I could just get a new dog for even cheaper
A bit utilitarian for my liking.

"O God, enlarge within us the sense of fellowship with all living things, our brothers the animals to whom Thou gavest the earth as their home in common with us. We remember with shame that in the past we have exercised the high dominion of man with ruthless cruelty so that the voice of the earth, which should have gone up to Thee in song has been a groan of travail. May we realize that they live not for us alone, but for themselves and for Thee and that they love the sweetness of life even as we, and serve Thee better in their place than we in ours." -Attributed to St Basil

In any case, when our pets suffer we should repent because human sin and corruption is what caused it.
 

age234

High Elder
Joined
Jun 30, 2009
Messages
559
Reaction score
0
Points
0
JamesRottnek said:
A dog is not a human being, I do not think any great amount of money needs to be paid to prolong one's life. 
A dog is not a human being, but a dog is not an inanimate object either. Animals have souls and serve and worship God in their own way. A dog is better at being a dog than any of us are at being humans.

When people spend obscene amounts of money on things that give them pleasure, or even on non-utilitarian cosmetic repairs to their cars, I would submit it's more important to spend money being a good steward of thr animals we've taken for ourselves than to spend it on self-pleasure.

I do agree though, that if a person can't commit to that, they should not own pets.
 

Adela

OC.Net Guru
Joined
Aug 31, 2010
Messages
1,095
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Unfortunately my beautiful Great Pyrenees dog had to be euthanized this past Friday.  She was 12 1/2 and had cancer that caused the sac around her heart to fill up with fluid, plus other terrible things.  I spent quite a bit of money to diagnose it and treat her until it became clear nothing more could be done.

Now, to someone else she was just a dog.  To me, a gift from God.

  She has protected my mother from a vicious dog that came charging at them while they were walking on a path. She has physically put herself between me and some threat, such as the time 5 Boxer dogs came charging at us when their gate wasn't latched properly and they got loose, or between some person that was unknown to her. When my brother came to visit after being gone for many years, she didn't know him so she made sure I was safe.  Instead of sleeping by my bed, she lay down in the doorway to the guest bedroom where my brother was.  When he got up in the middle of the night, she escorted him to the bathroom, waited, and walked him back to the guest bedroom and again put lay down in the doorway to the guest bedroom. 

She was so gentle with small children and the elderly.  A neighbor boy who had autism and didn't talk or interact with people much would  actually be able to connect and make eye contact and talk to her.  Once when I was at a street fair there was a girl, about 10 years old, with Down's Syndrome who kept looking at her and smiling so I took her over to see this girl.  The parents were amazed because they said their daughter was very much afraid of dogs and that my dog was the first dog she had petted and wasn't afraid of. 

I didn't spend much on my wedding. I wore a dress I got off a clearance rack at Macy's.  I'm driving an old Buick.  I don't spend much money on restaurants.  But I will spend money on my dog.
 

yeshuaisiam

Protokentarchos
Joined
Oct 20, 2010
Messages
4,695
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Adela said:
Unfortunately my beautiful Great Pyrenees dog had to be euthanized this past Friday.  She was 12 1/2 and had cancer that caused the sac around her heart to fill up with fluid, plus other terrible things.  I spent quite a bit of money to diagnose it and treat her until it became clear nothing more could be done.

Now, to someone else she was just a dog.  To me, a gift from God.

  She has protected my mother from a vicious dog that came charging at them while they were walking on a path. She has physically put herself between me and some threat, such as the time 5 Boxer dogs came charging at us when their gate wasn't latched properly and they got loose, or between some person that was unknown to her. When my brother came to visit after being gone for many years, she didn't know him so she made sure I was safe.  Instead of sleeping by my bed, she lay down in the doorway to the guest bedroom where my brother was.  When he got up in the middle of the night, she escorted him to the bathroom, waited, and walked him back to the guest bedroom and again put lay down in the doorway to the guest bedroom.   

She was so gentle with small children and the elderly.  A neighbor boy who had autism and didn't talk or interact with people much would  actually be able to connect and make eye contact and talk to her.  Once when I was at a street fair there was a girl, about 10 years old, with Down's Syndrome who kept looking at her and smiling so I took her over to see this girl.  The parents were amazed because they said their daughter was very much afraid of dogs and that my dog was the first dog she had petted and wasn't afraid of.   

I didn't spend much on my wedding. I wore a dress I got off a clearance rack at Macy's.   I'm driving an old Buick.  I don't spend much money on restaurants.  But I will spend money on my dog.
Those are wonderful animals.  We know of people that this breed has protected from rattle snakes, dogs, etc.  Sad to hear of your loss.
 

yeshuaisiam

Protokentarchos
Joined
Oct 20, 2010
Messages
4,695
Reaction score
0
Points
0
I differ a lot in opinion on this topic from some of you.  Not because I am cruel, or want to spend excessively elsewhere or anything like that.  (for the record we do live simply, simple cars, simple stuff, frugal where we can).

We are on a small farm.  Life and death are a constant.  We butcher chickens & goats.  Milk Goats.  We also raise rabbits for fur that our daughter spins.  Needless to say, life and death is a reality.  It's fun to watch baby chicks hatch from eggs, and somewhat sad to see them on butchering day, but always thankful at the table.

Dogs are the same way.  See puppies born, treat them well, but they eventually grow old, or get sick, and will die.  It's just a reality that is a constant around here.  In fact, one of our rabbits caught a disease (we think a rat bit her) and I took it out back and shot it.  Sad, but reality.  To spend money at a vets office is very foreign to me, especially that kind of money.

I mean if it was something simple, cheap, OK.  But once we start crossing several hundred dollars, they either live with it or get put down.  It's just the nature of things.  Love animals, love dogs.  We'll treat them right, feed them good, give them loads of attention, but we aren't going to spend that kind of money on an animal. 
 
Top