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Metropolitan of OCA concelebrating with EP in Constantinople

ialmisry

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Metropolitan Tikhon accepts Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew’s invitation to serve at Sunday of Orthodoxy Liturgy
His Beatitude, Metropolitan Tikhon has accepted an invitation from His All-Holiness, Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople to concelebrate the Divine Liturgy of the Sunday of Orthodoxy at the Patriarchal Church of Saint George in Istanbul’s Phanar district on March 20, 2016.  Also concelebrating with the Ecumenical Patriarch will be the members of the Sacred and Holy Synod of the Patriarchate of Constantinople.
https://oca.org/news/headline-news/metropolitan-tikhon-accepts-ecumenical-patriarch-bartholomews-invitation
 

scamandrius

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Is the OCA's autocephaly on the agenda for the Council in Crete?  If so, would this be an olive branch to show support? 

What has the EP's relationship with the OCA been like over the past couple decades?  Good?  Bad?  Neither?
 

JoeS2

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LenInSebastopol said:
Truly significant news and well received.
Thanks be to God
Its a good start, but the OCA will still be considered by the EP an autonomous member of the World Orthodox community.
There is still no recognition by the EP of the OCA's autocephaly from the MP.
 

Mor Ephrem

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JoeS2 said:
LenInSebastopol said:
Truly significant news and well received.
Thanks be to God
Its a good start, but the OCA will still be considered by the EP an autonomous member of the World Orthodox community.
There is still no recognition by the EP of the OCA's autocephaly from the MP.
To be fair, the OCA ought to recognise its own autocephaly before expecting others to recognise it.







 

Hinterlander

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I am confused as to how concelebration doesn't implicitly recognize the authority/stature of the other bishop.
 

scamandrius

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Hinterlander said:
I am confused as to how concelebration doesn't implicitly recognize the authority/stature of the other bishop.
That was my feeling as well. We must also remember that HAH Bartholomew also concelebrates with Roman Catholic popes so that would also recognize his authority and stature, too.
 

LenInSebastopol

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JoeS2 said:
LenInSebastopol said:
Truly significant news and well received.
Thanks be to God
Its a good start, but the OCA will still be considered by the EP an autonomous member of the World Orthodox community.
There is still no recognition by the EP of the OCA's autocephaly from the MP.
Yeah, I cannot tell you how upset that makes me. Rather.....but now that I've been Orthodox and reading stuff & stuff...maybe it's better off for the time being.
 

Mor Ephrem

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Hinterlander said:
I am confused as to how concelebration doesn't implicitly recognize the authority/stature of the other bishop.
A bishop who is recognised by a majority of EO Christians as head of his own autocephalous Church was merely the eleventh concelebrant at the Phanar "Sacred Center of Orthodoxy, behind an assortment of diocesan bishops and titulars without flocks. 

Yes, that implies something about the authority/stature of HB Tikhon. 
 

Second Chance

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Mor Ephrem said:
Hinterlander said:
I am confused as to how concelebration doesn't implicitly recognize the authority/stature of the other bishop.
A bishop who is recognised by a majority of EO Christians as head of his own autocephalous Church was merely the eleventh concelebrant at the Phanar "Sacred Center of Orthodoxy, behind an assortment of diocesan bishops and titulars without flocks. 

Yes, that implies something about the authority/stature of HB Tikhon.
Deleted comment.
 

kijabeboy03

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Yup, it implies that he's humble enough to play along with a bunch of titular bishops who don't even have dioceses and grasp at every bit of pretense to make their church seem significant...

Mor Ephrem said:
Hinterlander said:
I am confused as to how concelebration doesn't implicitly recognize the authority/stature of the other bishop.
A bishop who is recognised by a majority of EO Christians as head of his own autocephalous Church was merely the eleventh concelebrant at the Phanar "Sacred Center of Orthodoxy, behind an assortment of diocesan bishops and titulars without flocks. 

Yes, that implies something about the authority/stature of HB Tikhon.
 

Mor Ephrem

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kijabeboy03 said:
Yup, it implies that he's humble enough to play along with a bunch of titular bishops who don't even have dioceses and grasp at every bit of pretense to make their church seem significant...
I suppose that's one way to spin it.  :p
 

liftsifter

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kijabeboy03 said:
Yup, it implies that he's humble enough to play along with a bunch of titular bishops who don't even have dioceses and grasp at every bit of pretense to make their church seem significant...

Mor Ephrem said:
Hinterlander said:
I am confused as to how concelebration doesn't implicitly recognize the authority/stature of the other bishop.
A bishop who is recognised by a majority of EO Christians as head of his own autocephalous Church was merely the eleventh concelebrant at the Phanar "Sacred Center of Orthodoxy, behind an assortment of diocesan bishops and titulars without flocks. 

Yes, that implies something about the authority/stature of HB Tikhon.
That's the way I see it. It's disgraceful that a GUEST was not even invited to serve as the second bishop. Traditionally, out of hospitality, guest hierarchs are invited to serve as protos or at least as second bishop, if the inviting hierarch is a Patriarch. Nothing new here with the Patriarch of Constantinople's actions.
 

FatherGiryus

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liftsifter said:
kijabeboy03 said:
Yup, it implies that he's humble enough to play along with a bunch of titular bishops who don't even have dioceses and grasp at every bit of pretense to make their church seem significant...

Mor Ephrem said:
Hinterlander said:
I am confused as to how concelebration doesn't implicitly recognize the authority/stature of the other bishop.
A bishop who is recognised by a majority of EO Christians as head of his own autocephalous Church was merely the eleventh concelebrant at the Phanar "Sacred Center of Orthodoxy, behind an assortment of diocesan bishops and titulars without flocks. 

Yes, that implies something about the authority/stature of HB Tikhon.
That's the way I see it. It's disgraceful that a GUEST was not even invited to serve as the second bishop. Traditionally, out of hospitality, guest hierarchs are invited to serve as protos or at least as second bishop, if the inviting hierarch is a Patriarch. Nothing new here with the Patriarch of Constantinople's actions.
Liftsifter,

Because you don't have a lot of posts under your belt, this one gets an informal warning:

We do NOT engage in polemics here, so if you want to criticize the Patriarch of Constantinople for his behavior, start a topic in another part of the OCNet that allows for debate and polemics.  The Christian News Forum is NOT for debate, and you remarks constitute an invitation to debate by offering criticism.

Thank you for choosing OCNet for your digital Orthodoxy needs.

-Father Giryus
General Fora Moderator and Watchful Eye

 

Jeffrey

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Not really.  Since differences in Diptych placement effect every Church except the top 5, C-ple - Moscow, if we stood on the Diptychs we would hardly ever be able to visit and concelebrate.  The OCA website specified that the hierarchical concelebrants were ranked by date of consecration.

It is not new that the OCA Met accepts a different place than his own diptychs suggest.  See he were it seems Met Tikhon was ranked after the Archdiocesan Auxiliaries when servng with Pat John:

https://oca.org/cdn/images/news/2014-1215-patjohn-mettikhon10.JPG That picture looks to be the only one of that event where rank can be seenn during the liturgy.

For reference:
Constantinople Diptychs
1 Constantinople; 2 Alexandria; 3 Antioch; 4 Jerusalem; 5 Moscow; 6 Serbian Church; 7 The Romanian Church; 8 Bulgarian Church; 9 Georgian Church; 10 Church of Cyprus; 11 Church of Greece; 12 Polish Church; 13 Albanian Church; 14 Czechoslovak Church;

Moscow Diptychs
1 Constantinople; 2 Alexandria; 3 Antioch; 4 Jerusalem; 5 Moscow; 6 Georgian Church; 7 Serbian Church; 8 Romanian Church; 9 Bulgarian Church; 10 Church of Cyprus; 11 Church of Greece; 12 Albanian Church; 13 Polish Church; 14 Czechoslovak Church; 15 OCA

Serbain Diptychs = Moscow diptychs 1-14, except “6 Serbian Church 7 Georgian Church”


Mor Ephrem said:
JoeS2 said:
LenInSebastopol said:
Truly significant news and well received.
Thanks be to God
Its a good start, but the OCA will still be considered by the EP an autonomous member of the World Orthodox community.
There is still no recognition by the EP of the OCA's autocephaly from the MP.
To be fair, the OCA ought to recognise its own autocephaly before expecting others to recognise it.
 
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