Modern day Crusades..?

Charles Martel

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As a Latin Roman Catholic in the West, I see an interesting development going on in the East with "Arab Spring" catching fire from North Africa to SW Asia. There seems to be many regime changes in nations that have or had considerable Christian populations with the majority of them being "Orthodox" or Eastern Rite Catholics. The problem with these revolutions or "revolts" is that it doesn't bode well for the Christians within these respective nations, I don't believe the majority of Western Roman Catholics conceive of the dire consequences of this situation as there seems to be a consolidation of a predominately antiChristian Muslim power structure forming in these new "democracies". From what I understand, many OC and ERC churches are disappearing from within this realm  rapidly as we speak with the assault on the Christians after the fallout from post revolution, basically from I see, are Muslim revolutions that seem to be  encouraged, financed and backed from Western secular powers.

With the recent capitulations in Iraq, Libya and Egypt all with a notable Christian presence and now with Syria ( noted for a grand Christian past and present) on the verge of collapse, I'm surprised there isn't more outrage from the Vatican and the Christian West on the fate of their brethren in those parts of the world. Or maybe it might be coming soon as the situation becomes more dire.

I guess the point to what I'm getting at is that this is a very similar situation just prior to the Crusades when the Eastern Christians reached out to Rome for help as Islam was banging at the walls Of Byzantium, which eventually fell a few hundred years later, a total disaster for Europe and all of Christendom.

I was curious about how my Eastern brothers feel about this situation and maybe a little solidarity between Latins and the Orthodox on this issue. I'm not posting this from a merely political veiwpoint and I don't want to infringe on the rules of moderators for "political discussion", if this thread should be moved or deleted, so be it. I'm just trying to get a feel of the mood of what is going on over there from an Orthodox perspective and how we could support in any way.

I think the Syrian situation is very dangerous for Christians and very bad for the West in general.

My prayers and support go out to all those who suffer in that part of the world and hopefully God's Will ultimately holds out in the end, regardless of all the efforts of the meddlers and "peace-keeprs" in these stricken nations.
 

Charles Martel

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Greek Catholic nun explains the situation in Syria for Eastern Christians.....

The Irish Times - Monday, August 13, 2012

Media coverage of Syrian violence partial and untrue, says nun

PATSY McGARRY, Religious Affairs Correspondent

A NUN who has been superior at a Syrian monastery for the past 18 years has warned that media coverage of ongoing violence in that country has been “partial and untrue”. It is “a fake”, Mother Agnes Mariam said, which “hides atrocities committed in the name of liberty and democracy”.

Superior of the Melkite Greek Catholic monastery of St James the Mutilated in Qara, in Syria’s diocese of Homs, which is in full communion with Rome, she left Ireland yesterday after a three-day visit during which she met representatives of the Irish Catholic Bishops’ Conference in Maynooth.


http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...322099930.html

Post editted to be OK with the news posting policy - MK.
 
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It is never ultimately good for the Christians in the Middle East under the yoke of the religion of peace with or without the west it seems. The recent history of 19th c. imperial Britain playing chess with the Klingon, I mean Ottoman, empire to contain Russia (who posed no threat to Britain) & then the Ottoman & German alliance of WW I helped exacerbate the eventual near annihilation of the Armenians, parts of the Greeks, Syrians etc. I guess America is doing something similar to these earlier debacles.

From what I understand, the Byzantines also formed some alliances with the Ottomans early on but I lack knowledge of this to discuss. The west barely survived the scourge all the way to Vienna in 1689 & God knows what the future holds. America has at least been a haven for Christian survivors & I pray it will remain so. I thank God my paternal great grandparents were able to get out of Syria in the later 19th c.
 

vamrat

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It all depends on how much the west were to get involved.  Air strikes as well as logistical supports (weapons, ammunition, explosives, etc) would be appreciated, though actual colonizing western troops would be problematic.  Unfortunately for any of this to work, the westerners would need to stop licking the moslem boots long enough to concentrate on killing them.  Being a westerner albeit not a western Christian, we have plenty in our own houses that need to be fixed first.  It would be nice to see Russia help out their Christian brothers more.  They are giving Assad some support though I think he needs more in order to crush this uprising.  Likewise, Russian troops will eventually need to help the Serbs cure those cancerous tumors in Bosnia and Kossovo.
 
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I think the higher archons of the churches should help American laity increase its numbers to spread the Gospel, try to transform Christianity in America, educate new converts to the plight of old world Orthodox, & help establish channels to assist Orthdox refugees that will probably need to eventually flee en masse. Of course, I have little hope that these higher archons have much wisdom. The IOCC, FOCUS, etc. did not come from, nor ever will, originate from the higher archons.
 

orthonorm

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Nectarine, you asked for it . . .

Here is your polemical thread in which people fantasize about killing Muslims.
 

Kerdy

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A Crusade is an offensive action.  I don't know anyone capable at this point to even begin to think this way.  Everyone right now is acting defensively.  They have been doing so for such a long time, its pretty much all thats left.  There were a lot of reasons the Crusades failed and all of those reasons still exist.  It would be a foolish and doomed attempt.  Besides, the west has piddled around in the east too long as it is and set the stage for the problems we currently see unfolding.  We should take care of our own business and friends and stop policing the world.
 

Kerdy

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vamrat said:
It all depends on how much the west were to get involved.  Air strikes as well as logistical supports (weapons, ammunition, explosives, etc) would be appreciated, though actual colonizing western troops would be problematic.  Unfortunately for any of this to work, the westerners would need to stop licking the moslem boots long enough to concentrate on killing them.  Being a westerner albeit not a western Christian, we have plenty in our own houses that need to be fixed first.  It would be nice to see Russia help out their Christian brothers more.  They are giving Assad some support though I think he needs more in order to crush this uprising.  Likewise, Russian troops will eventually need to help the Serbs cure those cancerous tumors in Bosnia and Kossovo.
I don't know all the details, but I thought I was the only one who sees these rebellions as wrong.
 

Nephi

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Kerdy said:
I don't know all the details, but I thought I was the only one who sees these rebellions as wrong.
The Syrian rebellions?
 

Kerdy

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Nephi said:
Kerdy said:
I don't know all the details, but I thought I was the only one who sees these rebellions as wrong.
The Syrian rebellions?
All of them.  It's been a chain reaction which has left that part of the world more unstable than it has ever been.

But I don't know the reasons for the uprising in Syria.  It all depends on who you ask to which reason you are given.
 

Nephi

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Kerdy said:
All of them.  It's been a chain reaction which has left that part of the world more unstable than it has ever been.

But I don't know the reasons for the uprising in Syria.  It all depends on who you ask to which reason you are given.
As far as I can tell it seems Islam is a major factor in the Syrian uprising, even if it's not the main reason. The attacks by the rebels on Christians and Alawites shows this fairly well.
 

Kerdy

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Nephi said:
Kerdy said:
All of them.  It's been a chain reaction which has left that part of the world more unstable than it has ever been.

But I don't know the reasons for the uprising in Syria.  It all depends on who you ask to which reason you are given.
As far as I can tell it seems Islam is a major factor in the Syrian uprising, even if it's not the main reason. The attacks by the rebels on Christians and Alawites shows this fairly well.
So the problem is the rebels, not the government?
 

Kerdy

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J Michael said:
Time to move this to Politics??
If this is more motivated by politics rather than religion.  Since I don't know, that's why I am asking.  It seems a mixture of both, but since Islam controls government, I feel it could remain outside a political thread, but I'm speculating a lot here.
 

Iconodule

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J Michael said:
Time to move this to Politics??
It'd be better to open up a whole new forum for this nonsense: "Fantasy wargaming."
 

Charles Martel

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orthonorm said:
Nectarine, you asked for it . . .

Here is your polemical thread in which people fantasize about killing Muslims.
No one is "fantasizing" about killing Mohammedans here, the OP was expressing concern from a Latin Catholic for our Eastern brothers, especially in Syria right now. I don't understand why this would end up as a Muslim slaughterfest all of the sudden. Also I just see some kind of pattern where one regime after another that at least tolerated Christians is going by the wayside to be replaced by Muslim fanaticals. The setting also seems eerily  somewhat similar to the setting before the Crusades when Eastern Christians were in big trouble and asked the Vatican for help. Of course, today, the Vatican has been conspicuously silent on the matter from what I have seen and it seems some Orthodox are offended by merely mentioning it.

I apologize if this call for Christian solidarity has offended any Orthodox here.

I guess we need to stay divided.

Good luck in the East.
 

mike

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No one needs the Westerners there. These are the Westerners who messed everything up there.
 

orthonorm

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Charles Martel said:
orthonorm said:
Nectarine, you asked for it . . .

Here is your polemical thread in which people fantasize about killing Muslims.
No one is "fantasizing" about killing Mohammedans here, the OP was expressing concern from a Latin Catholic for our Eastern brothers, especially in Syria right now. I don't understand why this would end up as a Muslim slaughterfest all of the sudden. Also I just see some kind of pattern where one regime after another that at least tolerated Christians is going by the wayside to be replaced by Muslim fanaticals. The setting also seems eerily  somewhat similar to the setting before the Crusades when Eastern Christians were in big trouble and asked the Vatican for help. Of course, today, the Vatican has been conspicuously silent on the matter from what I have seen and it seems some Orthodox are offended by merely mentioning it.

I apologize if this call for Christian solidarity has offended any Orthodox here.

I guess we need to stay divided.

Good luck in the East.
The one thing that is surely divided here is your reading attention. Go back read the posts.
 
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