Modern day Crusades..?

[SolEX01]

Yep while the Byzantine empire was trying to kill off my people

your people?  There were no Protestants in the Byzantine Empire.

 

[NicholasMyra]

If you think Muslims are so great then go live with them Jew, this  has nothing to do with the thread.

This is about Eastern Christians and their fate in the East

Go derail another thread about your precious "muslims". :

Cool it with the LARP, now.

 

[Charles Martel]

Even worse than the rogue Crusaders sacking the Byzantium during the Crusades was the West allowing Constantinople to fall in 1453 against the Ottoman Turks , a tragedy that Christendom and Europe has never recovered from.

Agreed.

Ottoman Empire was the best thing that could of ever happened in history. I would suggest that you do some reading on the history and things that came about from the Ottomans that you enjoy today. It's not known as the" Golden age " for nothing

The Turks destroying conquering Byzantium was the best thing that could happen? Tell that to the Greeks, Serbs, Romanians, and so on. Many of the geopolitical problems that we have today are a result of this conquest. I suspect Jewish Voice is either greatly misinformed or a prankster.

Consider the source.

Yep while the Byzantine empire was trying to kill off my people and spread their hate filled lies the Ottomans came in cleaned house and made us members of the empire and helped build schuls, schools and made us leaders of towns and in world war 2 saved lots of Jews from the nasty catholic Hitler and Pope. Ottoman empire was one of the best empires in the world  ;D

If you think Muslims are so great then go live with them Jew, this  has nothing to do with the thread.

This is about Eastern Christians and their fate in the East

Go derail another thread about your precious "muslims". :

As for you all I can say is your lucky we don't know each other out side of this forum ........ you really should be thanking G-d for that 

LoL! Yea, OK, whatever.... : But you're probably right about that, I really am glad I don't know you out there in the real world, then I'd have to hear you eulogizing "moo-slims" in person. I thank the Lord Jesus Christ for that.

BTW, who's "G-d" ? Are you referring to the first person in the Trinity or does it pain you to say his name?

And really, this distortion over "Hitler's Pope" has been played out already, it's nothing but anti-Catholic propaganda, Pius XII was of the greatest of Popes, the man should be canonized some day regardless of heretical attacks on his good name.

But again, you can go start another thread on your hatred of 20th century Roman pontiffs.

Try to stay on topic here, which is Christians in the East and the  danger they're in.

 

[Charles Martel]

If you think Muslims are so great then go live with them Jew, this  has nothing to do with the thread.

This is about Eastern Christians and their fate in the East

Go derail another thread about your precious "muslims". :

Cool it with the LARP, now.

Sorry, not familiar with that acronym.

 

[Charles Martel]

Bartholomew I: Peace in Syria and throughout the world

The Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople is concerned about the situation in the country and the fate of the Syrian Christian community. Pain for the rest of the Middle East, Nigeria and Sudan. Need to combat religious fundamentalism manipulated for political purposes. “A crime committed in the name of religion is a crime against religion.”

http://theorthodoxchurch.info/blog/news/2012/08/bartholomew-i-peace-in-syria-and-throughout-the-world/

 

[Kerdy]

Even worse than the rogue Crusaders sacking the Byzantium during the Crusades was the West allowing Constantinople to fall in 1453 against the Ottoman Turks , a tragedy that Christendom and Europe has never recovered from.

Agreed.

Ottoman Empire was the best thing that could of ever happened in history. I would suggest that you do some reading on the history and things that came about from the Ottomans that you enjoy today. It's not known as the" Golden age " for nothing

The Turks destroying conquering Byzantium was the best thing that could happen? Tell that to the Greeks, Serbs, Romanians, and so on. Many of the geopolitical problems that we have today are a result of this conquest. I suspect Jewish Voice is either greatly misinformed or a prankster.

Consider the source.

Yep while the Byzantine empire was trying to kill off my people and spread their hate filled lies the Ottomans came in cleaned house and made us members of the empire and helped build schuls, schools and made us leaders of towns and in world war 2 saved lots of Jews from the nasty catholic Hitler and Pope. Ottoman empire was one of the best empires in the world  ;D

Just based off your WW2 comment, I think your version of history is skewed.

The Reichskonkordat was a treaty between the Holy See and Nazi Germany, that guaranteed the rights of the Catholic Church in Germany. It was signed on 20 July 1933 by Secretary of State Eugenio Pacelli (who later became Pope Pius XII) and Vice Chancellor Franz von Papen on behalf of Pope Pius XI and President Paul von Hindenburg respectively. The Reichskonkordat is the most controversial of several concordats agreed between various states and the Vatican during the reign of Pope Pius XI and is frequently discussed in works that deal with the rise of Hitler in the early 1930s and the Holocaust. The concordat has been described as giving moral legitimacy to the Nazi regime soon after Hitler had acquired dictatorial powers, and placing constraints on Catholic critics of the regime, leading to a muted response by the Church to Nazi policies. From a Roman Catholic church perspective it has been argued that the concordat prevented even greater evils being unleashed against the Church. Though the German bishops were unenthusiastic, and the Allies felt it was inappropriate, Pope Pius XII argued to keep the concordat at the end of World War II and the treaty is still in force today
They still keep the kill Jew's on the old books I think you might want to go back and reread your history again

hitler said to the bishop Berning in Rome “I have been attacked because of my handling of the Jewish question. The Catholic Church considered the Jews pestilent for fifteen hundred years, put them in ghettos, etc., because it recognized the Jews for what they were. In the epoch of liberalism the danger was no longer recognized. I am moving back toward the time in which a fifteen-hundred-year-long tradition was implemented. I do not set race over religion, but I recognize the representatives of this race as pestilent for the state and for the Church, and perhaps I am thereby doing Christianity a great service by pushing them out of schools and public functions.” Berning give him a blessing

Like I said, skewed.

 

[Kerdy]

Even worse than the rogue Crusaders sacking the Byzantium during the Crusades was the West allowing Constantinople to fall in 1453 against the Ottoman Turks , a tragedy that Christendom and Europe has never recovered from.

Agreed.

Ottoman Empire was the best thing that could of ever happened in history. I would suggest that you do some reading on the history and things that came about from the Ottomans that you enjoy today. It's not known as the" Golden age " for nothing

The Turks destroying conquering Byzantium was the best thing that could happen? Tell that to the Greeks, Serbs, Romanians, and so on. Many of the geopolitical problems that we have today are a result of this conquest. I suspect Jewish Voice is either greatly misinformed or a prankster.

Consider the source.

Yep while the Byzantine empire was trying to kill off my people and spread their hate filled lies the Ottomans came in cleaned house and made us members of the empire and helped build schuls, schools and made us leaders of towns and in world war 2 saved lots of Jews from the nasty catholic Hitler and Pope. Ottoman empire was one of the best empires in the world  ;D

If you think Muslims are so great then go live with them Jew, this  has nothing to do with the thread.

This is about Eastern Christians and their fate in the East

Go derail another thread about your precious "muslims". :

As for you all I can say is your lucky we don't know each other out side of this forum ........ you really should be thanking G-d for that 

And what exactly does this statement mean?  I believe I know, but I don't want to jump to conclusions.

 

[Kerdy]

If you think Muslims are so great then go live with them Jew, this  has nothing to do with the thread.

This is about Eastern Christians and their fate in the East

Go derail another thread about your precious "muslims". :

Cool it with the LARP, now.

Sorry, not familiar with that acronym.

I am unfamiliar as well, but I think it may have something to do with your agitated verbage in relation to Jews and Muslims.

 

[recent convert]

No one is clean. Israel has to compromise on principle too:  http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/world_now/2012/06/israeli-parliament-debates-armenian-genocide-amid-continued-tension-with-turkey.html

 

[Charles Martel]

Priest warns of security risk in pope trip to Lebanon

The pope's safety could be at risk during a planned visit to Lebanon next month, a Jesuit priest who was recently forced to leave Syria warned.
Pope Benedict XVI is due to visit Lebanon from September 14-16 to bring a message of peace and call for greater respect for religious pluralism.
Even though his special protective car -- the "popemobile" -- has been sent to Beirut, questions are swirling about the safety of a trip to a country linked to the raging conflict in Syria.

http://news.yahoo.com/priest-warns-security-risk-pope-trip-lebanon-155403967.html

 

[HabteSelassie]

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

There is a crucial difference between the situation in the original Crusades and today.  Today, a lot of the Christians experiencing this violence in Nigeria, Iraq, or Syria are indeed Latin Catholics.  So it is not necessarily about the Latin Church and the Orthodox Church working together on this one, violence against Christians around the world is as tangibly and painfully a Catholic issue as it is an Orthodox one.  In fact, in the media lately about Syria there is surprising quiet about the Syriac Orthodox Church however the Catholics there are interviewed and articled frequently.  It has me curious why the Orthodox Church isn't being mentioned considering our significant presence in Syria

It seems to me that the Latin Church today, in particular with her experience in 20th century Latin America, has evolved a policy of social justice which is inherently in contradiction with the premise of a Crusade.  This doesn't mean that the secular authorities have no business intervening in Arab and Muslim regions, as is what indeed happened in original Crusades and further that the Catholic Church wouldn't lend their support, however I doubt it would be in the same line of thinking as the Crusades.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

 

[Charles Martel]

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

There is a crucial difference between the situation in the original Crusades and today.  Today, a lot of the Christians experiencing this violence in Nigeria, Iraq, or Syria are indeed Latin Catholics.  So it is not necessarily about the Latin Church and the Orthodox Church working together on this one, violence against Christians around the world is as tangibly and painfully a Catholic issue as it is an Orthodox one.  In fact, in the media lately about Syria there is surprising quiet about the Syriac Orthodox Church however the Catholics there are interviewed and articled frequently.  It has me curious why the Orthodox Church isn't being mentioned considering our significant presence in Syria

It seems to me that the Latin Church today, in particular with her experience in 20th century Latin America, has evolved a policy of social justice which is inherently in contradiction with the premise of a Crusade.  This doesn't mean that the secular authorities have no business intervening in Arab and Muslim regions, as is what indeed happened in original Crusades and further that the Catholic Church wouldn't lend their support, however I doubt it would be in the same line of thinking as the Crusades.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

With the advent of the so-called "Arab Spring", the  Muslim Brotherhood gaining momentum and Islam encroaching on historically Orthodox lands, you don't see the possibility of a similar scenario just prior to the First Crusade?

I'm not saying it's going to happen, but there must be some solidarity between Catholics, East and West as well as more vocal opposition to the situation in the East.

 

[NicholasMyra]

If you think Muslims are so great then go live with them Jew, this  has nothing to do with the thread.

This is about Eastern Christians and their fate in the East

Go derail another thread about your precious "muslims". :

Cool it with the LARP, now.

Sorry, not familiar with that acronym.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=larp

 

[HabteSelassie]

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

With the advent of the so-called "Arab Spring", the  Muslim Brotherhood gaining momentum and Islam encroaching on historically Orthodox lands, you don't see the possibility of a similar scenario just prior to the First Crusade?

I'm not saying it's going to happen, but there must be some solidarity between Catholics, East and West as well as more vocal opposition to the situation in the East.

No, the world is entirely reversed from then. During the time of the first Crusades western Europe was completely underdeveloped, Eastern Europe was inching towards decline, and the Arabs and Turks were on the rise culturally, economically, politically, and technologically.  In our contemporary time, the Western world is ages beyond the developing Arab/Turk/Muslim world, Eastern Europe is experiencing almost a revival of sorts (pre-Recession that is to say) and it is literally unfeasible for the Muslims/Arabs to somehow challenge the hegemony and dominance of western money and technology.  If they were to try it, it would be sudden demise. In all actuality, the Arabs would probably LOVE to be able to launch a war, we have a lot of mutual political and economic gripe which provokes hostilities at every strata of our societies. In all truth, the Western world is probably only humoring the Arabs because of financial opportunities, as I am quite sure that if it was in Western economic interests, they'd wipe the Arabs of the map without blinking  :-X

stay blessed,
habte selassie

 

[Charles Martel]

If you think Muslims are so great then go live with them Jew, this  has nothing to do with the thread.

This is about Eastern Christians and their fate in the East

Go derail another thread about your precious "muslims". :

Cool it with the LARP, now.

Sorry, not familiar with that acronym.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=larp

I wouldn't put too much stock on anything a crude site like "Urbandictionary" has to say about anything.

Having said that, that acronym doesn't apply here.

I don't engage in ridiculous fantasy's only the reality of what's going on today in the Levant.

 

[Charles Martel]

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

With the advent of the so-called "Arab Spring", the  Muslim Brotherhood gaining momentum and Islam encroaching on historically Orthodox lands, you don't see the possibility of a similar scenario just prior to the First Crusade?

I'm not saying it's going to happen, but there must be some solidarity between Catholics, East and West as well as more vocal opposition to the situation in the East.

No, the world is entirely reversed from then. During the time of the first Crusades western Europe was completely underdeveloped, Eastern Europe was inching towards decline, and the Arabs and Turks were on the rise culturally, economically, politically, and technologically.  In our contemporary time, the Western world is ages beyond the developing Arab/Turk/Muslim world, Eastern Europe is experiencing almost a revival of sorts (pre-Recession that is to say) and it is literally unfeasible for the Muslims/Arabs to somehow challenge the hegemony and dominance of western money and technology.  If they were to try it, it would be sudden demise. In all actuality, the Arabs would probably LOVE to be able to launch a war, we have a lot of mutual political and economic gripe which provokes hostilities at every strata of our societies. In all truth, the Western world is probably only humoring the Arabs because of financial opportunities, as I am quite sure that if it was in Western economic interests, they'd wipe the Arabs of the map without blinking  :-X

stay blessed,
habte selassie

  Well for a ragtag group of mercenaries from a collage  of "underdeveloped" nations, they sure did a number on the superior Islamic force surrounding the Holy Land. But I will admit that Western Europe was suffering economically and the allure of riches in the East was too much for many of the secular minded Crusaders. Actually, we seem to have the same situation today even with France becoming aggressive and being at the forefront of dabbling in these M.E. "revolutions", the problem is, Christianity it seems has nothing to gain and everything  to lose in these interventions. The big player here of course here is Putin and Russia's support of the Syrian regime, a strange alliance between the Orthodox Russians and Shiite Muslims against the agitators from the West, but if Assad falls it will not be good for the Orthodox Christians there and any influence from the Moscow Patriarchate.

 

[Nephi]

I wouldn't put too much stock on anything a crude site like "Urbandictionary" has to say about anything.

Having said that, that acronym doesn't apply here.

I don't engage in ridiculous fantasy's only the reality of what's going on today in the Levant.

People who are what's called "hyperdox" are often described as "LARPing" on here. In other words, they're roleplaying something they're not (e.g. converts who become full-blown Russophiles touting "Holy Russia" and what-not).

 

[NicholasMyra]

I don't engage in ridiculous fantasy's

Your alias is Charles Martel.

Perhaps I should rename myself "Santiago the Moor-Slayer" and we can both deal +90 confusion to the only Moroccan who shows up to our LARP.

 

[ialmisry]

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

With the advent of the so-called "Arab Spring", the  Muslim Brotherhood gaining momentum and Islam encroaching on historically Orthodox lands, you don't see the possibility of a similar scenario just prior to the First Crusade?

I'm not saying it's going to happen, but there must be some solidarity between Catholics, East and West as well as more vocal opposition to the situation in the East.

No, the world is entirely reversed from then. During the time of the first Crusades western Europe was completely underdeveloped, Eastern Europe was inching towards decline, and the Arabs and Turks were on the rise culturally, economically, politically, and technologically.  In our contemporary time, the Western world is ages beyond the developing Arab/Turk/Muslim world, Eastern Europe is experiencing almost a revival of sorts (pre-Recession that is to say) and it is literally unfeasible for the Muslims/Arabs to somehow challenge the hegemony and dominance of western money and technology.  If they were to try it, it would be sudden demise. In all actuality, the Arabs would probably LOVE to be able to launch a war, we have a lot of mutual political and economic gripe which provokes hostilities at every strata of our societies. In all truth, the Western world is probably only humoring the Arabs because of financial opportunities, as I am quite sure that if it was in Western economic interests, they'd wipe the Arabs of the map without blinking  :-X

stay blessed,
habte selassie

  Well for a ragtag group of mercenaries from a collage  of "underdeveloped" nations, they sure did a number on the superior Islamic force surrounding the Holy Land

who were in the midst of a civil war.  Several, as a matter of fact.

 

[ialmisry]

Even worse than the rogue Crusaders sacking the Byzantium during the Crusades was the West allowing Constantinople to fall in 1453 against the Ottoman Turks , a tragedy that Christendom and Europe has never recovered from.

Agreed.

Ottoman Empire was the best thing that could of ever happened in history. I would suggest that you do some reading on the history and things that came about from the Ottomans that you enjoy today. It's not known as the" Golden age " for nothing

The Turks destroying conquering Byzantium was the best thing that could happen? Tell that to the Greeks, Serbs, Romanians, and so on. Many of the geopolitical problems that we have today are a result of this conquest. I suspect Jewish Voice is either greatly misinformed or a prankster.

Consider the source.

Yep while the Byzantine empire was trying to kill off my people and spread their hate filled lies the Ottomans came in cleaned house and made us members of the empire and helped build schuls, schools and made us leaders of towns and in world war 2 saved lots of Jews from the nasty catholic Hitler and Pope. Ottoman empire was one of the best empires in the world  ;D

Uh, Hitler fought on the same side as the Ottoman Empire, and it fell before he came to power.

 

[Charles Martel]

I wouldn't put too much stock on anything a crude site like "Urbandictionary" has to say about anything.

Having said that, that acronym doesn't apply here.

I don't engage in ridiculous fantasy's only the reality of what's going on today in the Levant.

People who are what's called "hyperdox" are often described as "LARPing" on here. In other words, they're roleplaying something they're not (e.g. converts who become full-blown Russophiles touting "Holy Russia" and what-not).

I'm not a convert, I'm a cradle Roman Catholic.

I'm not exactly  "Russia-phile" either, though I can remember the days when Russia was Communist and atheist, so I commend them for coming a long way from those days and their leadership is perhaps even more Christian than the West these days.

I only express concern for brother Christians in the East and the consequences of fundamentalist Islamic regimes seizing power there, if this makes me some kind of a "Larp-er", so be it.

 

[Charles Martel]

I don't engage in ridiculous fantasy's

Your alias is Charles Martel.

Perhaps I should rename myself "Santiago the Moor-Slayer" and we can both deal +90 confusion to the only Moroccan who shows up to our LARP.

My screen-name is reflective of my heritage and and tribute to a great Catholic hero who saved Western Europe from Islam hundreds of years before the Crusades, I don't see what the problem is. I belong to several forums and never use my real name, I prefer the anonymity of the Internet, I'm sure this is problem for you as well, but it's not mine.

You can call yourself whatever  and go "Larp-ing" wherever you want.

But let's stick to reality and the situation for Christians in Syria on this thread.

 

[Charles Martel]

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

With the advent of the so-called "Arab Spring", the  Muslim Brotherhood gaining momentum and Islam encroaching on historically Orthodox lands, you don't see the possibility of a similar scenario just prior to the First Crusade?

I'm not saying it's going to happen, but there must be some solidarity between Catholics, East and West as well as more vocal opposition to the situation in the East.

No, the world is entirely reversed from then. During the time of the first Crusades western Europe was completely underdeveloped, Eastern Europe was inching towards decline, and the Arabs and Turks were on the rise culturally, economically, politically, and technologically.  In our contemporary time, the Western world is ages beyond the developing Arab/Turk/Muslim world, Eastern Europe is experiencing almost a revival of sorts (pre-Recession that is to say) and it is literally unfeasible for the Muslims/Arabs to somehow challenge the hegemony and dominance of western money and technology.  If they were to try it, it would be sudden demise. In all actuality, the Arabs would probably LOVE to be able to launch a war, we have a lot of mutual political and economic gripe which provokes hostilities at every strata of our societies. In all truth, the Western world is probably only humoring the Arabs because of financial opportunities, as I am quite sure that if it was in Western economic interests, they'd wipe the Arabs of the map without blinking  :-X

stay blessed,
habte selassie

  Well for a ragtag group of mercenaries from a collage  of "underdeveloped" nations, they sure did a number on the superior Islamic force surrounding the Holy Land

who were in the midst of a civil war.  Several, as a matter of fact.

Aren't they always? Still doesn't deter from the fact that a few thousand Frankish knights from a thousand miles away routed a force ten times theirs in their own back yard. Even with Saladin uniting them for a short time, the Crusaders fell due in part to their own hubris and infighting.

 

[Apples]

Jewish Voice, why are you so ungrateful of the great efforts Pius XI went to to save and shelter Jews during the Holocaust?

 

[ialmisry]

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

With the advent of the so-called "Arab Spring", the  Muslim Brotherhood gaining momentum and Islam encroaching on historically Orthodox lands, you don't see the possibility of a similar scenario just prior to the First Crusade?

I'm not saying it's going to happen, but there must be some solidarity between Catholics, East and West as well as more vocal opposition to the situation in the East.

No, the world is entirely reversed from then. During the time of the first Crusades western Europe was completely underdeveloped, Eastern Europe was inching towards decline, and the Arabs and Turks were on the rise culturally, economically, politically, and technologically.  In our contemporary time, the Western world is ages beyond the developing Arab/Turk/Muslim world, Eastern Europe is experiencing almost a revival of sorts (pre-Recession that is to say) and it is literally unfeasible for the Muslims/Arabs to somehow challenge the hegemony and dominance of western money and technology.  If they were to try it, it would be sudden demise. In all actuality, the Arabs would probably LOVE to be able to launch a war, we have a lot of mutual political and economic gripe which provokes hostilities at every strata of our societies. In all truth, the Western world is probably only humoring the Arabs because of financial opportunities, as I am quite sure that if it was in Western economic interests, they'd wipe the Arabs of the map without blinking  :-X

stay blessed,
habte selassie

  Well for a ragtag group of mercenaries from a collage  of "underdeveloped" nations, they sure did a number on the superior Islamic force surrounding the Holy Land

who were in the midst of a civil war.  Several, as a matter of fact.

Aren't they always?

No, they aren't.  The Fatimid Caliphate, for instance, had gone over two centuries without one.  The US hasn't done as well.

Still doesn't deter from the fact that a few thousand Frankish knights from a thousand miles away routed a force ten times theirs in their own back yard. Even with Saladin uniting them for a short time, the Crusaders fell due in part to their own hubris and infighting.

40,000+ is more than a few thousand.  And they didn't face much of a fight until Antioch, far from the Muslim centers and well under a thousand miles from Jerusalem, and did not face a battle as you describe it until the Battle of Ascalon, when they had occupied Jerusalem already.

 

[NicholasMyra]

My screen-name is reflective of my heritage and and tribute to a great Catholic hero who saved Western Europe from Islam

Charles Martel was a Frankish warlord who once stopped a little moorish raiding party sent out from the Muslim Horde that had already spent itself all the way to Spain. A warlord of this age, and this age and the rulers of this age have been judged and overcome by Christ.

Say no to anachronistic fantasy, except when taken not-too-seriously.

 

[NicholasMyra]

I only express concern for brother Christians in the East and the consequences of fundamentalist Islamic regimes seizing power there

you did... in the context of the crusades and charles martel.

There will be no new crusade. There SHOULD be no crusade.

 

[Nephi]

I'm not a convert, I'm a cradle Roman Catholic.

I'm not exactly  "Russia-phile" either, though I can remember the days when Russia was Communist and atheist, so I commend them for coming a long way from those days and their leadership is perhaps even more Christian than the West these days.

I only express concern for brother Christians in the East and the consequences of fundamentalist Islamic regimes seizing power there, if this makes me some kind of a "Larp-er", so be it.

The convert-Russophile bit was an example; that's why I used "e.g." before it.

 

[Kerdy]

Maybe a Billy Graham type crusade would work.

 

[Charles Martel]

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

With the advent of the so-called "Arab Spring", the  Muslim Brotherhood gaining momentum and Islam encroaching on historically Orthodox lands, you don't see the possibility of a similar scenario just prior to the First Crusade?

I'm not saying it's going to happen, but there must be some solidarity between Catholics, East and West as well as more vocal opposition to the situation in the East.

No, the world is entirely reversed from then. During the time of the first Crusades western Europe was completely underdeveloped, Eastern Europe was inching towards decline, and the Arabs and Turks were on the rise culturally, economically, politically, and technologically.  In our contemporary time, the Western world is ages beyond the developing Arab/Turk/Muslim world, Eastern Europe is experiencing almost a revival of sorts (pre-Recession that is to say) and it is literally unfeasible for the Muslims/Arabs to somehow challenge the hegemony and dominance of western money and technology.  If they were to try it, it would be sudden demise. In all actuality, the Arabs would probably LOVE to be able to launch a war, we have a lot of mutual political and economic gripe which provokes hostilities at every strata of our societies. In all truth, the Western world is probably only humoring the Arabs because of financial opportunities, as I am quite sure that if it was in Western economic interests, they'd wipe the Arabs of the map without blinking  :-X

stay blessed,
habte selassie

  Well for a ragtag group of mercenaries from a collage  of "underdeveloped" nations, they sure did a number on the superior Islamic force surrounding the Holy Land

who were in the midst of a civil war.  Several, as a matter of fact.

Aren't they always?

No, they aren't.  The Fatimid Caliphate, for instance, had gone over two centuries without one.  The US hasn't done as well.

Still doesn't deter from the fact that a few thousand Frankish knights from a thousand miles away routed a force ten times theirs in their own back yard. Even with Saladin uniting them for a short time, the Crusaders fell due in part to their own hubris and infighting.

40,000+ is more than a few thousand.  And they didn't face much of a fight until Antioch, far from the Muslim centers and well under a thousand miles from Jerusalem, and did not face a battle as you describe it until the Battle of Ascalon, when they had occupied Jerusalem already.

I think your figure of 40thousand is a bit inflated, anyway, i'm talking about actual Knights or Templars who were really the force behind the Crusade. But even if your close in that number, you have to consider they crossed two continents and the Med sea just to get there, were tired, undernourished, and thousands of miles ( a logistical eternity in those days) away from their homelands and that was before Antioch, a major battle they should've never won but perhaps from divine intervention or complete Arab incompetence, either way, the Crusaders pulled off an almost impossible victory in what you erroneously decribe as not a "Muslim center", on the contrary, Antioch was almost in the heart of the Levant with the Crusaders being surrounded by Islam.

And Islam has always been warring within itself, the religion was founded on warring tribes which is much the case today. The children of Ishmael only occasionaly put down their sword against each other to unite and fight the invading infidel from outside their realms.

 

[Charles Martel]

My screen-name is reflective of my heritage and and tribute to a great Catholic hero who saved Western Europe from Islam

Charles Martel was a Frankish warlord who once stopped a little moorish raiding party sent out from the Muslim Horde that had already spent itself all the way to Spain. A warlord of this age, and this age and the rulers of this age have been judged and overcome by Christ.

Say no to anachronistic fantasy, except when taken not-too-seriously.

So what happened to the  Islamic "warlords" from North Africa and the Iberian Peninsula?

What of the Ottoman "warlords" that sacked Constantinople?

What of all the  Islamic "warlords" that seized all the major Christian centers in the ME to this day?

Has Christ overcome them?

And your "little Moorish party" that was soundly defeated at Tours consisted of at least 30 thousand battle hardened Muslim warriors from the army of the Umayyad Caliphate led by ‘Abdul Rahman Al Ghafiqi,with as much as 200 to 300 thousand in reserves, this was no small contingent or raiding party, it was the beginning of a full scale Islamic invasion into Gaul which was utterly destroyed and changed the course of Western European history. Martel and his Carolinian descendants when on to establish what is much of Catholic Europe today as we know it.

The only  anachronistic fantasy is your history revisionism.

 

[Charles Martel]

I only express concern for brother Christians in the East and the consequences of fundamentalist Islamic regimes seizing power there

you did... in the context of the crusades and charles martel.

There will be no new crusade. There SHOULD be no crusade.

Maybe, maybe not.

But there is Jihad, something that Western Christians still have no conception of, but someday might.

Same goes for the word "crusade" which means more than an religious, international, military expedition into pagan lands.

 

[Cyrillic]

Martel and his Carolinian descendants when on to establish what is much of Catholic Europe today as we know it.

Fr. Romanides, is it you? Are you trying to push the "Franco-Latin Papacy" theory on us again?

 

[HabteSelassie]

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Maybe a Billy Graham type crusade would work.

Perfect.  Lets send em Greg Laurie Harvest

stay blessed,
habte selassie

 

[mike]

Maybe a Billy Graham type crusade would work.

Maybe Charles Martel could stop posting his fantasies here and leave New York to Syria to get at least some insight.

 

[NicholasMyra]

So what happened to the  Islamic "warlords" from North Africa and the Iberian Peninsula?

What of the Ottoman "warlords" that sacked Constantinople?

What of all the  Islamic "warlords" that seized all the major Christian centers in the ME to this day?

Has Christ overcome them?

Yes.

 

[NicholasMyra]

it was the beginning of a full scale Islamic invasion into Gaul which was utterly destroyed and changed the course of Western European history.

This is a myth popularized by Edward Gibbon and friends in the 1800's, with which no contemporary historian agrees.

 

[Charles Martel]

Maybe a Billy Graham type crusade would work.

Maybe Charles Martel could stop posting his fantasies here and leave New York to Syria to get at least some insight.

Wow, is that really necessary, I posted this thread out of concern for Christians in the East facing an uncertain future under radical Islamist regimes like the Muslim Brotherhood and I get nothing but accused of engaging in "fantasies".

Whatever.

Some of you Orthodox are a nasty lot.

Don't worry "Mike", I had quite enough insight about the religion of peace right here in NY on 911, I won't be leaving here anytime soon. Maybe you need to  leave Warsaw and get to Aleppo to get a little insight yourself.

 

[Charles Martel]

it was the beginning of a full scale Islamic invasion into Gaul which was utterly destroyed and changed the course of Western European history.

This is a myth popularized by Edward Gibbon and friends in the 1800's, with which no contemporary historian agrees.

Why would a anti-religeous heretic like Gibbon go out of his way to glorify a defender of Christendom like Martel?

The Franks and Martel did indeed stop the spread of Islam cold in it's tracks at Tours, the historical evidence is plain enough with Islam never again advancing past the Pyrenees.I'm sure any contemporary historian would agree with that.

 

[mike]

Maybe a Billy Graham type crusade would work.

Maybe Charles Martel could stop posting his fantasies here and leave New York to Syria to get at least some insight.

Wow, is that really necessary, I posted this thread out of concern for Christians in the East facing an uncertain future under radical Islamist regimes like the Muslim Brotherhood and I get nothing but accused of engaging in "fantasies".

Don't worry "Mike", I had quite enough insight about the religion of peace right here in NY on 911, I won't be leaving here anytime soon. Maybe you need to  leave Warsaw and get to Aleppo to get a little insight yourself.

At least I'm not trying to "help" them while knowing nothing about the situation.