Modern day Crusades..?

Charles Martel

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Nephi said:
Charles Martel said:
I wouldn't put too much stock on anything a crude site like "Urbandictionary" has to say about anything.

Having said that, that acronym doesn't apply here.

I don't engage in ridiculous fantasy's only the reality of what's going on today in the Levant.
People who are what's called "hyperdox" are often described as "LARPing" on here. In other words, they're roleplaying something they're not (e.g. converts who become full-blown Russophiles touting "Holy Russia" and what-not).
I'm not a convert, I'm a cradle Roman Catholic.

I'm not exactly  "Russia-phile" either, though I can remember the days when Russia was Communist and atheist, so I commend them for coming a long way from those days and their leadership is perhaps even more Christian than the West these days.

I only express concern for brother Christians in the East and the consequences of fundamentalist Islamic regimes seizing power there, if this makes me some kind of a "Larp-er", so be it.
 

Charles Martel

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NicholasMyra said:
Charles Martel said:
I don't engage in ridiculous fantasy's
Your alias is Charles Martel.

Perhaps I should rename myself "Santiago the Moor-Slayer" and we can both deal +90 confusion to the only Moroccan who shows up to our LARP.
My screen-name is reflective of my heritage and and tribute to a great Catholic hero who saved Western Europe from Islam hundreds of years before the Crusades, I don't see what the problem is. I belong to several forums and never use my real name, I prefer the anonymity of the Internet, I'm sure this is problem for you as well, but it's not mine.

You can call yourself whatever  and go "Larp-ing" wherever you want.

But let's stick to reality and the situation for Christians in Syria on this thread.
 

Charles Martel

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ialmisry said:
Charles Martel said:
HabteSelassie said:
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!


Charles Martel said:
With the advent of the so-called "Arab Spring", the  Muslim Brotherhood gaining momentum and Islam encroaching on historically Orthodox lands, you don't see the possibility of a similar scenario just prior to the First Crusade?

I'm not saying it's going to happen, but there must be some solidarity between Catholics, East and West as well as more vocal opposition to the situation in the East.

No, the world is entirely reversed from then. During the time of the first Crusades western Europe was completely underdeveloped
, Eastern Europe was inching towards decline, and the Arabs and Turks were on the rise culturally, economically, politically, and technologically.  In our contemporary time, the Western world is ages beyond the developing Arab/Turk/Muslim world, Eastern Europe is experiencing almost a revival of sorts (pre-Recession that is to say) and it is literally unfeasible for the Muslims/Arabs to somehow challenge the hegemony and dominance of western money and technology.  If they were to try it, it would be sudden demise. In all actuality, the Arabs would probably LOVE to be able to launch a war, we have a lot of mutual political and economic gripe which provokes hostilities at every strata of our societies. In all truth, the Western world is probably only humoring the Arabs because of financial opportunities, as I am quite sure that if it was in Western economic interests, they'd wipe the Arabs of the map without blinking  :-X

stay blessed,
habte selassie
  Well for a ragtag group of mercenaries from a collage  of "underdeveloped" nations, they sure did a number on the superior Islamic force surrounding the Holy Land
who were in the midst of a civil war.  Several, as a matter of fact.
Aren't they always? Still doesn't deter from the fact that a few thousand Frankish knights from a thousand miles away routed a force ten times theirs in their own back yard. Even with Saladin uniting them for a short time, the Crusaders fell due in part to their own hubris and infighting.
 

Apples

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Jewish Voice, why are you so ungrateful of the great efforts Pius XI went to to save and shelter Jews during the Holocaust?
 

ialmisry

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Charles Martel said:
ialmisry said:
Charles Martel said:
HabteSelassie said:
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!


Charles Martel said:
With the advent of the so-called "Arab Spring", the  Muslim Brotherhood gaining momentum and Islam encroaching on historically Orthodox lands, you don't see the possibility of a similar scenario just prior to the First Crusade?

I'm not saying it's going to happen, but there must be some solidarity between Catholics, East and West as well as more vocal opposition to the situation in the East.

No, the world is entirely reversed from then. During the time of the first Crusades western Europe was completely underdeveloped
, Eastern Europe was inching towards decline, and the Arabs and Turks were on the rise culturally, economically, politically, and technologically.  In our contemporary time, the Western world is ages beyond the developing Arab/Turk/Muslim world, Eastern Europe is experiencing almost a revival of sorts (pre-Recession that is to say) and it is literally unfeasible for the Muslims/Arabs to somehow challenge the hegemony and dominance of western money and technology.  If they were to try it, it would be sudden demise. In all actuality, the Arabs would probably LOVE to be able to launch a war, we have a lot of mutual political and economic gripe which provokes hostilities at every strata of our societies. In all truth, the Western world is probably only humoring the Arabs because of financial opportunities, as I am quite sure that if it was in Western economic interests, they'd wipe the Arabs of the map without blinking  :-X

stay blessed,
habte selassie
  Well for a ragtag group of mercenaries from a collage  of "underdeveloped" nations, they sure did a number on the superior Islamic force surrounding the Holy Land
who were in the midst of a civil war.  Several, as a matter of fact.
Aren't they always?
No, they aren't.  The Fatimid Caliphate, for instance, had gone over two centuries without one.  The US hasn't done as well.

Charles Martel said:
Still doesn't deter from the fact that a few thousand Frankish knights from a thousand miles away routed a force ten times theirs in their own back yard. Even with Saladin uniting them for a short time, the Crusaders fell due in part to their own hubris and infighting.
40,000+ is more than a few thousand.  And they didn't face much of a fight until Antioch, far from the Muslim centers and well under a thousand miles from Jerusalem, and did not face a battle as you describe it until the Battle of Ascalon, when they had occupied Jerusalem already.
 

NicholasMyra

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Charles Martel said:
My screen-name is reflective of my heritage and and tribute to a great Catholic hero who saved Western Europe from Islam
Charles Martel was a Frankish warlord who once stopped a little moorish raiding party sent out from the Muslim Horde that had already spent itself all the way to Spain. A warlord of this age, and this age and the rulers of this age have been judged and overcome by Christ.

Say no to anachronistic fantasy, except when taken not-too-seriously.
 

NicholasMyra

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Charles Martel said:
I only express concern for brother Christians in the East and the consequences of fundamentalist Islamic regimes seizing power there
you did... in the context of the crusades and charles martel.

There will be no new crusade. There SHOULD be no crusade.
 

Nephi

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Charles Martel said:
I'm not a convert, I'm a cradle Roman Catholic.

I'm not exactly  "Russia-phile" either, though I can remember the days when Russia was Communist and atheist, so I commend them for coming a long way from those days and their leadership is perhaps even more Christian than the West these days.

I only express concern for brother Christians in the East and the consequences of fundamentalist Islamic regimes seizing power there, if this makes me some kind of a "Larp-er", so be it.
The convert-Russophile bit was an example; that's why I used "e.g." before it.
 

Kerdy

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Maybe a Billy Graham type crusade would work.
 

Charles Martel

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ialmisry said:
Charles Martel said:
ialmisry said:
Charles Martel said:
HabteSelassie said:
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!


Charles Martel said:
With the advent of the so-called "Arab Spring", the  Muslim Brotherhood gaining momentum and Islam encroaching on historically Orthodox lands, you don't see the possibility of a similar scenario just prior to the First Crusade?

I'm not saying it's going to happen, but there must be some solidarity between Catholics, East and West as well as more vocal opposition to the situation in the East.

No, the world is entirely reversed from then. During the time of the first Crusades western Europe was completely underdeveloped
, Eastern Europe was inching towards decline, and the Arabs and Turks were on the rise culturally, economically, politically, and technologically.  In our contemporary time, the Western world is ages beyond the developing Arab/Turk/Muslim world, Eastern Europe is experiencing almost a revival of sorts (pre-Recession that is to say) and it is literally unfeasible for the Muslims/Arabs to somehow challenge the hegemony and dominance of western money and technology.  If they were to try it, it would be sudden demise. In all actuality, the Arabs would probably LOVE to be able to launch a war, we have a lot of mutual political and economic gripe which provokes hostilities at every strata of our societies. In all truth, the Western world is probably only humoring the Arabs because of financial opportunities, as I am quite sure that if it was in Western economic interests, they'd wipe the Arabs of the map without blinking  :-X

stay blessed,
habte selassie
  Well for a ragtag group of mercenaries from a collage  of "underdeveloped" nations, they sure did a number on the superior Islamic force surrounding the Holy Land
who were in the midst of a civil war.  Several, as a matter of fact.
Aren't they always?
No, they aren't.  The Fatimid Caliphate, for instance, had gone over two centuries without one.  The US hasn't done as well.

Charles Martel said:
Still doesn't deter from the fact that a few thousand Frankish knights from a thousand miles away routed a force ten times theirs in their own back yard. Even with Saladin uniting them for a short time, the Crusaders fell due in part to their own hubris and infighting.
40,000+ is more than a few thousand.  And they didn't face much of a fight until Antioch, far from the Muslim centers and well under a thousand miles from Jerusalem, and did not face a battle as you describe it until the Battle of Ascalon, when they had occupied Jerusalem already.
I think your figure of 40thousand is a bit inflated, anyway, i'm talking about actual Knights or Templars who were really the force behind the Crusade. But even if your close in that number, you have to consider they crossed two continents and the Med sea just to get there, were tired, undernourished, and thousands of miles ( a logistical eternity in those days) away from their homelands and that was before Antioch, a major battle they should've never won but perhaps from divine intervention or complete Arab incompetence, either way, the Crusaders pulled off an almost impossible victory in what you erroneously decribe as not a "Muslim center", on the contrary, Antioch was almost in the heart of the Levant with the Crusaders being surrounded by Islam.

And Islam has always been warring within itself, the religion was founded on warring tribes which is much the case today. The children of Ishmael only occasionaly put down their sword against each other to unite and fight the invading infidel from outside their realms.
 

Charles Martel

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NicholasMyra said:
Charles Martel said:
My screen-name is reflective of my heritage and and tribute to a great Catholic hero who saved Western Europe from Islam
Charles Martel was a Frankish warlord who once stopped a little moorish raiding party sent out from the Muslim Horde that had already spent itself all the way to Spain. A warlord of this age, and this age and the rulers of this age have been judged and overcome by Christ.

Say no to anachronistic fantasy, except when taken not-too-seriously.
So what happened to the  Islamic "warlords" from North Africa and the Iberian Peninsula?

What of the Ottoman "warlords" that sacked Constantinople?

What of all the  Islamic "warlords" that seized all the major Christian centers in the ME to this day?

Has Christ overcome them?

And your "little Moorish party" that was soundly defeated at Tours consisted of at least 30 thousand battle hardened Muslim warriors from the army of the Umayyad Caliphate led by ‘Abdul Rahman Al Ghafiqi,with as much as 200 to 300 thousand in reserves, this was no small contingent or raiding party, it was the beginning of a full scale Islamic invasion into Gaul which was utterly destroyed and changed the course of Western European history. Martel and his Carolinian descendants when on to establish what is much of Catholic Europe today as we know it.

The only  anachronistic fantasy is your history revisionism.

 

Charles Martel

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NicholasMyra said:
Charles Martel said:
I only express concern for brother Christians in the East and the consequences of fundamentalist Islamic regimes seizing power there
you did... in the context of the crusades and charles martel.

There will be no new crusade. There SHOULD be no crusade.
Maybe, maybe not.

But there is Jihad, something that Western Christians still have no conception of, but someday might.

Same goes for the word "crusade" which means more than an religious, international, military expedition into pagan lands.
 

Cyrillic

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Charles Martel said:
Martel and his Carolinian descendants when on to establish what is much of Catholic Europe today as we know it.
Fr. Romanides, is it you? Are you trying to push the "Franco-Latin Papacy" theory on us again?

:D
 

HabteSelassie

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Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Kerdy said:
Maybe a Billy Graham type crusade would work.
Perfect.  Lets send em Greg Laurie Harvest ;)



stay blessed,
habte selassie
 

mike

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Kerdy said:
Maybe a Billy Graham type crusade would work.
Maybe Charles Martel could stop posting his fantasies here and leave New York to Syria to get at least some insight.
 

NicholasMyra

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Charles Martel said:
So what happened to the  Islamic "warlords" from North Africa and the Iberian Peninsula?

What of the Ottoman "warlords" that sacked Constantinople?

What of all the  Islamic "warlords" that seized all the major Christian centers in the ME to this day?

Has Christ overcome them?
Yes.
 

NicholasMyra

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Charles Martel said:
it was the beginning of a full scale Islamic invasion into Gaul which was utterly destroyed and changed the course of Western European history.
This is a myth popularized by Edward Gibbon and friends in the 1800's, with which no contemporary historian agrees.
 

Charles Martel

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Michał Kalina said:
Kerdy said:
Maybe a Billy Graham type crusade would work.
Maybe Charles Martel could stop posting his fantasies here and leave New York to Syria to get at least some insight.
Wow, is that really necessary, I posted this thread out of concern for Christians in the East facing an uncertain future under radical Islamist regimes like the Muslim Brotherhood and I get nothing but accused of engaging in "fantasies".

Whatever.

Some of you Orthodox are a nasty lot.

Don't worry "Mike", I had quite enough insight about the religion of peace right here in NY on 911, I won't be leaving here anytime soon. Maybe you need to  leave Warsaw and get to Aleppo to get a little insight yourself.

 

Charles Martel

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NicholasMyra said:
Charles Martel said:
it was the beginning of a full scale Islamic invasion into Gaul which was utterly destroyed and changed the course of Western European history.
This is a myth popularized by Edward Gibbon and friends in the 1800's, with which no contemporary historian agrees.
Why would a anti-religeous heretic like Gibbon go out of his way to glorify a defender of Christendom like Martel?

The Franks and Martel did indeed stop the spread of Islam cold in it's tracks at Tours, the historical evidence is plain enough with Islam never again advancing past the Pyrenees.I'm sure any contemporary historian would agree with that.
 

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Charles Martel said:
Michał Kalina said:
Kerdy said:
Maybe a Billy Graham type crusade would work.
Maybe Charles Martel could stop posting his fantasies here and leave New York to Syria to get at least some insight.
Wow, is that really necessary, I posted this thread out of concern for Christians in the East facing an uncertain future under radical Islamist regimes like the Muslim Brotherhood and I get nothing but accused of engaging in "fantasies".

Don't worry "Mike", I had quite enough insight about the religion of peace right here in NY on 911, I won't be leaving here anytime soon. Maybe you need to  leave Warsaw and get to Aleppo to get a little insight yourself.
At least I'm not trying to "help" them while knowing nothing about the situation.
 
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