Modern day Crusades..?

Cyrillic

Toumarches
Joined
Jun 9, 2012
Messages
13,710
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
26
Location
Netherlands
Green_Umbrella said:
ialmisry said:
Charles Martel said:
ialmisry said:
Charles Martel said:
ialmisry said:
Charles Martel said:
ialmisry, I have no problem with Arab Christians, actually the point of this thread is my concern for them.
Yeeeah.

Charles Martel said:
And why would any Christian brag about the greatness of any Islamic Caliphates?
Although you should give the devil his due, no Christian bragged about the greatness of any Islamic Caliphate.
Charles Martel said:
One more thing, I don't care how many anti-Latin Catholic posters come here and try to diminish the Crusaders victory at Antioch, it was nothing short of a miracle and a testament to the Latins resolve against the infidel in the Levant.
Yeeeah. If you say so.
Yeah I do.

I see we're getting no where here and now you're just being unreasonable because of some innate hatred of Western "Christians" as you put it, so we'll just have to agree to disagree on some issues.
Like the ignorance of history by those suffering from arrogance serving the Hubris of the West.
The only ones I see "suffering" are Christians in the East with Mohamed's foot on their necks.
after the Crusaders pulled the rug from under their feet, kicked Mohamad, and ran away.
That is a joke. The Christians in the east were folding under Islam all on their own long before any Crusaders showed up and stopped total collapse.
Care to explain that one?
 

Green_Umbrella

Sr. Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2012
Messages
188
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Cyrillic said:
Green_Umbrella said:
ialmisry said:
Charles Martel said:
ialmisry said:
Charles Martel said:
ialmisry said:
Charles Martel said:
ialmisry, I have no problem with Arab Christians, actually the point of this thread is my concern for them.
Yeeeah.

Charles Martel said:
And why would any Christian brag about the greatness of any Islamic Caliphates?
Although you should give the devil his due, no Christian bragged about the greatness of any Islamic Caliphate.
Charles Martel said:
One more thing, I don't care how many anti-Latin Catholic posters come here and try to diminish the Crusaders victory at Antioch, it was nothing short of a miracle and a testament to the Latins resolve against the infidel in the Levant.
Yeeeah. If you say so.
Yeah I do.

I see we're getting no where here and now you're just being unreasonable because of some innate hatred of Western "Christians" as you put it, so we'll just have to agree to disagree on some issues.
Like the ignorance of history by those suffering from arrogance serving the Hubris of the West.
The only ones I see "suffering" are Christians in the East with Mohamed's foot on their necks.
after the Crusaders pulled the rug from under their feet, kicked Mohamad, and ran away.
That is a joke. The Christians in the east were folding under Islam all on their own long before any Crusaders showed up and stopped total collapse.
Care to explain that one?
I think it is clear.
 

Charles Martel

Taxiarches
Joined
Feb 12, 2012
Messages
6,805
Reaction score
0
Points
0
NicholasMyra said:
Charles Martel said:
Seems in your view, the Latin Crusaders did such a good job usurping Christianity in the East it never recovered.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Crusade
I actually took the time to read the entire article, I'll admit, my knowledge of the Fourth Crusade is limited, I have read in the past that the sack of Constantinople was indeed a tragedy and some of the Crusaders acted rather unsavory which I'm sure if they were unrepentive  of that fact, did have to answer to the Lord Jesus for their atrocities, which it seems there were many.

As a Latin Catholic in the West, I am not proud of that part of our history but like the article points out, the Byzantines had a share in their fate through their own treachery, especially amongst the ruling class, they also seem to cozy up and use the Muslims as allies when it's convenient for them. a definite no-no to the Frankish Crusaders. Also, the Pope did indeed try to prevent the siege of the Byzantines numerous times and even threatened the Crusaders with excommunication, all to no avail since some of the corrupted clergy and leadership censored the papal letters from reaching the Crusaders forbidding them to attack the Orthodox city.

There's a lot of blame to go around in all this, but in the end, it was the Christians, East and West that paid for the aspirations of a greedy sect of the Crusaders and their Venetian naval allies and corruption of the Byzantine royalty whose murdering and infighting of each other and trying to use the Latin warriors for their own ends blew up in their face.
This dark pe riod in the Crusades should not lessen the fact that they did liberate Jerusalem from the infidel and
make it safe for Christendom at one point and not all the Latin Crusaders were murderous thieves, rapists and thugs that the historical revisionists in Hollywood Left and Islamic world  make them out to be.
 

mike

Protostrator
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Messages
24,873
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
30
Location
Białystok / Warsaw
Please, be militant elsewhere.

Your arguments have been disproved by several posters here some of whom live in Arabic countries and one being an Arabic Christian. Your arguments also lack basic historical knowledge. You operate on some Western myths and stereotypes instead. Don't you see no one agrees with you?
 

Cyrillic

Toumarches
Joined
Jun 9, 2012
Messages
13,710
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
26
Location
Netherlands
Charles Martel said:
NicholasMyra said:
Charles Martel said:
Seems in your view, the Latin Crusaders did such a good job usurping Christianity in the East it never recovered.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Crusade
As a Latin Catholic in the West, I am not proud of that part of our history but like the article points out, the Byzantines had a share in their fate through their own treachery, especially amongst the ruling class, they also seem to cozy up and use the Muslims as allies when it's convenient for them.
Shouldn't have pillaged Greek territory in the first and second crusade then. Wasn't John the Oxite, Patriarch of Antioch kicked out of town by your heroic crusaders?

 

Green_Umbrella

Sr. Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2012
Messages
188
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Cyrillic said:
Charles Martel said:
NicholasMyra said:
Charles Martel said:
Seems in your view, the Latin Crusaders did such a good job usurping Christianity in the East it never recovered.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Crusade
As a Latin Catholic in the West, I am not proud of that part of our history but like the article points out, the Byzantines had a share in their fate through their own treachery, especially amongst the ruling class, they also seem to cozy up and use the Muslims as allies when it's convenient for them.
Shouldn't have pillaged Greek territory in the first and second crusade then. Wasn't John the Oxite, Patriarch of Antioch kicked out of town by your heroic crusaders?
I think the Crusaders were heroic. Absolutely. Did they commit atrocities by modern standards, sure, no doubt. So did everyone else practicing warfare at that time. The Crusaders did no more and no less than what everyone else did.  Imagine a world with no Crusaders. Islam quickly finishes off what is left of the Eastern Empire. With no unifying call for Crusade to unite the nobles of the west to defend Christianity Islam keeps pushing. Steam rolls right over all of Europe. If no one is strong enough to stop them they do not stop. Why should they? Once they have conquered all of the Christian lands they consolidate their gains by destroying 99.99% of Christianity and this forum does not exist.
 

Cyrillic

Toumarches
Joined
Jun 9, 2012
Messages
13,710
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
26
Location
Netherlands
Green_Umbrella said:
Cyrillic said:
Charles Martel said:
NicholasMyra said:
Charles Martel said:
Seems in your view, the Latin Crusaders did such a good job usurping Christianity in the East it never recovered.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Crusade
As a Latin Catholic in the West, I am not proud of that part of our history but like the article points out, the Byzantines had a share in their fate through their own treachery, especially amongst the ruling class, they also seem to cozy up and use the Muslims as allies when it's convenient for them.
Shouldn't have pillaged Greek territory in the first and second crusade then. Wasn't John the Oxite, Patriarch of Antioch kicked out of town by your heroic crusaders?
I think the Crusaders were heroic. Absolutely. Did they commit atrocities by modern standards, sure, no doubt. So did everyone else practicing warfare at that time. The Crusaders did no more and no less than what everyone else did.  Imagine a world with no Crusaders. Islam quickly finishes off what is left of the Eastern Empire. With no unifying call for Crusade to unite the nobles of the west to defend Christianity Islam keeps pushing. Steam rolls right over all of Europe. If no one is strong enough to stop them they do not stop. Why should they? Once they have conquered all of the Christian lands they consolidate their gains by destroying 99.99% of Christianity and this forum does not exist.
That's just pathetic fantasy. If anything the crusades hasted the demise of the Eastern Empire. ening
 

Charles Martel

Taxiarches
Joined
Feb 12, 2012
Messages
6,805
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Michał Kalina said:
Please, be militant elsewhere.

Your arguments have been disproved by several posters here some of whom live in Arabic countries and one being an Arabic Christian. Your arguments also lack basic historical knowledge. You operate on some Western myths and stereotypes instead. Don't you see no one agrees with you?
If you're referring to me. what "arguments"? The only thing I asked for was the call for solidarity and concern for Eastern Christians, especially in Syria right now and maybe some insight from Orthodox about the situation going on there. Personally, I believe Western gov'ts intervening there right now would be disastrous for Christians, but the Western Church should support them against the radical Muslims any which way we can.

Is that so bad?

And some of these Arab "Christians" on here despise me and are blatantly aggressive for the very fact that I'm Western European and Latin Catholic. Now, you tell me, who's being "militant" here?

One more thing, written history is always slanted from the view of it's scholars. Of course people in the East, particularly Muslims are going to refer to the Franks as invaders, murderers and criminals. but they don't want to talk about how many "infidels" they put to the sword or the treatment of Christians or the fact that it was all Christian land before Islam prior to the Pope's call for Crusade, no, they don't want to talk about that at all. It's all about fanatical, greedy papists attacking innocent Muslims while desecrating and laying waste to the Holy Land.

Everyone has their own version of history, including the Arabs. There are many sides to the story..........but only one true one.
 

mike

Protostrator
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Messages
24,873
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
30
Location
Białystok / Warsaw
Charles Martel said:
Also, the Pope did indeed try to prevent the siege of the Byzantines numerous times and even threatened the Crusaders with excommunication, all to no avail since some of the corrupted clergy and leadership censored the papal letters from reaching the Crusaders forbidding them to attack the Orthodox city.
He did create Latin Patriarchate of Constantinople.

This dark pe riod in the Crusades should not lessen the fact that they did liberate Jerusalem from the infidel
No. These were Latins who did it, not the Orthodox Christians.

Charles Martel said:
If you're referring to me. what "arguments"? The only thing I asked for was the call for solidarity and concern for Eastern Christians, especially in Syria right now and maybe some insight from Orthodox about the situation going on there. Personally, I believe Western gov'ts intervening there right now would be disastrous for Christians, but the Western Church should support them against the radical Muslims any which way we can.

Is that so bad?

And some of these Arab "Christians" on here despise me and are blatantly aggressive for the very fact that I'm Western European and Latin Catholic. Now, you tell me, who's being "militant" here?
Don't you think that if you want to help Eastern Christians you should hear what help do they need from them and not decide it by yourself ignoring their needs?
 

Charles Martel

Taxiarches
Joined
Feb 12, 2012
Messages
6,805
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Green_Umbrella said:
Cyrillic said:
Charles Martel said:
NicholasMyra said:
Charles Martel said:
Seems in your view, the Latin Crusaders did such a good job usurping Christianity in the East it never recovered.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Crusade
As a Latin Catholic in the West, I am not proud of that part of our history but like the article points out, the Byzantines had a share in their fate through their own treachery, especially amongst the ruling class, they also seem to cozy up and use the Muslims as allies when it's convenient for them.
Shouldn't have pillaged Greek territory in the first and second crusade then. Wasn't John the Oxite, Patriarch of Antioch kicked out of town by your heroic crusaders?
I think the Crusaders were heroic. Absolutely. Did they commit atrocities by modern standards, sure, no doubt. So did everyone else practicing warfare at that time. The Crusaders did no more and no less than what everyone else did.  Imagine a world with no Crusaders. Islam quickly finishes off what is left of the Eastern Empire. With no unifying call for Crusade to unite the nobles of the west to defend Christianity Islam keeps pushing. Steam rolls right over all of Europe. If no one is strong enough to stop them they do not stop. Why should they? Once they have conquered all of the Christian lands they consolidate their gains by destroying 99.99% of Christianity and this forum does not exist.
I can't think of any place on the globe that once  been dominated by Islam has ever returned otherwise, especially back to Christianity with the possible exception of Cordoba in Roman Catholic Spain.
 

Cyrillic

Toumarches
Joined
Jun 9, 2012
Messages
13,710
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
26
Location
Netherlands
Charles Martel said:
I can't think of any place on the globe that once  been dominated by Islam has ever returned otherwise, especially back to Christianity with the possible exception of Cordoba in Roman Catholic Spain.
Colonialism? Syria and North-Africa where conquered by the French and Palestine and Egypt by the British. But don't let reality get in the way.

 

mike

Protostrator
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Messages
24,873
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
30
Location
Białystok / Warsaw
Charles Martel said:
I can't think of any place on the globe that once  been dominated by Islam has ever returned otherwise, especially back to Christianity with the possible exception of Cordoba in Roman Catholic Spain.
 

ialmisry

Strategos
Joined
Aug 17, 2007
Messages
41,795
Reaction score
0
Points
36
Location
Chicago
Charles Martel said:
Green_Umbrella said:
Cyrillic said:
Charles Martel said:
NicholasMyra said:
Charles Martel said:
Seems in your view, the Latin Crusaders did such a good job usurping Christianity in the East it never recovered.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Crusade
As a Latin Catholic in the West, I am not proud of that part of our history but like the article points out, the Byzantines had a share in their fate through their own treachery, especially amongst the ruling class, they also seem to cozy up and use the Muslims as allies when it's convenient for them.
Shouldn't have pillaged Greek territory in the first and second crusade then. Wasn't John the Oxite, Patriarch of Antioch kicked out of town by your heroic crusaders?
I think the Crusaders were heroic. Absolutely. Did they commit atrocities by modern standards, sure, no doubt. So did everyone else practicing warfare at that time. The Crusaders did no more and no less than what everyone else did.  Imagine a world with no Crusaders. Islam quickly finishes off what is left of the Eastern Empire. With no unifying call for Crusade to unite the nobles of the west to defend Christianity Islam keeps pushing. Steam rolls right over all of Europe. If no one is strong enough to stop them they do not stop. Why should they? Once they have conquered all of the Christian lands they consolidate their gains by destroying 99.99% of Christianity and this forum does not exist.
I can't think of any place on the globe that once  been dominated by Islam has ever returned otherwise, especially back to Christianity with the possible exception of Cordoba in Roman Catholic Spain.


See those crescents under the Cross?




 

SolEX01

Toumarches
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
13,791
Reaction score
10
Points
38
Location
Central Maryland
Website
www.goarch.org
Gee Charles Martel, stop playing those on-line role playing games and fantasizing about the fifth Crusade or whatever mechanism you're using to achieve world domination.
 

Green_Umbrella

Sr. Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2012
Messages
188
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Cyrillic said:
Green_Umbrella said:
Cyrillic said:
Charles Martel said:
NicholasMyra said:
Charles Martel said:
Seems in your view, the Latin Crusaders did such a good job usurping Christianity in the East it never recovered.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Crusade
As a Latin Catholic in the West, I am not proud of that part of our history but like the article points out, the Byzantines had a share in their fate through their own treachery, especially amongst the ruling class, they also seem to cozy up and use the Muslims as allies when it's convenient for them.
Shouldn't have pillaged Greek territory in the first and second crusade then. Wasn't John the Oxite, Patriarch of Antioch kicked out of town by your heroic crusaders?
I think the Crusaders were heroic. Absolutely. Did they commit atrocities by modern standards, sure, no doubt. So did everyone else practicing warfare at that time. The Crusaders did no more and no less than what everyone else did.  Imagine a world with no Crusaders. Islam quickly finishes off what is left of the Eastern Empire. With no unifying call for Crusade to unite the nobles of the west to defend Christianity Islam keeps pushing. Steam rolls right over all of Europe. If no one is strong enough to stop them they do not stop. Why should they? Once they have conquered all of the Christian lands they consolidate their gains by destroying 99.99% of Christianity and this forum does not exist.
That's just pathetic fantasy. If anything the crusades hasted the demise of the Eastern Empire. ening
Not a fantasy at all. The Eastern Empire was in total collapse.
 

Charles Martel

Taxiarches
Joined
Feb 12, 2012
Messages
6,805
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Michał Kalina said:
Charles Martel said:
Also, the Pope did indeed try to prevent the siege of the Byzantines numerous times and even threatened the Crusaders with excommunication, all to no avail since some of the corrupted clergy and leadership censored the papal letters from reaching the Crusaders forbidding them to attack the Orthodox city.
He did create Latin Patriarchate of Constantinople.

This dark pe riod in the Crusades should not lessen the fact that they did liberate Jerusalem from the infidel
No. These were Latins who did it, not the Orthodox Christians.

Charles Martel said:
If you're referring to me. what "arguments"? The only thing I asked for was the call for solidarity and concern for Eastern Christians, especially in Syria right now and maybe some insight from Orthodox about the situation going on there. Personally, I believe Western gov'ts intervening there right now would be disastrous for Christians, but the Western Church should support them against the radical Muslims any which way we can.

Is that so bad?

And some of these Arab "Christians" on here despise me and are blatantly aggressive for the very fact that I'm Western European and Latin Catholic. Now, you tell me, who's being "militant" here?
Don't you think that if you want to help Eastern Christians you should hear what help do they need from them and not decide it by yourself ignoring their needs?
Mike, the only thing i'm trying to ignore is the rage on here from OC at Rome from things a thousand years ago.

Obviously people like to keep brininging up ancient history to justify their hatred of the West.

quoting tags editted and nothing more - MK
 

Charles Martel

Taxiarches
Joined
Feb 12, 2012
Messages
6,805
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Cyrillic said:
Charles Martel said:
I can't think of any place on the globe that once  been dominated by Islam has ever returned otherwise, especially back to Christianity with the possible exception of Cordoba in Roman Catholic Spain.
Colonialism? Syria and North-Africa where conquered by the French and Palestine and Egypt by the British. But don't let reality get in the way.
The reality is you are comparing secular nations as opposed to a religious, borderless, sharia-dominated state in Islam.

The reality is, once Islam takes foothold all worldviews including Christianity
are out and Muslims are in, end of story.

The French and British are long gone but Islam remains.

The reality is, there is no comparison.
 

Charles Martel

Taxiarches
Joined
Feb 12, 2012
Messages
6,805
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Michał Kalina said:
Charles Martel said:
I can't think of any place on the globe that once  been dominated by Islam has ever returned otherwise, especially back to Christianity with the possible exception of Cordoba in Roman Catholic Spain.
This map proves my point.

Where are the Mongols today?

Yet Islam thrives.

 

mike

Protostrator
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Messages
24,873
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
30
Location
Białystok / Warsaw
Charles Martel said:
This map proves my point.

Where are the Mongols today?

Yet Islam thrives.
Yes, especially in Russia, Belarus, Ukraine, Romania and Moldova.
 

Charles Martel

Taxiarches
Joined
Feb 12, 2012
Messages
6,805
Reaction score
0
Points
0
ialmisry said:
Charles Martel said:
Green_Umbrella said:
Cyrillic said:
Charles Martel said:
NicholasMyra said:
Charles Martel said:
Seems in your view, the Latin Crusaders did such a good job usurping Christianity in the East it never recovered.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Crusade
As a Latin Catholic in the West, I am not proud of that part of our history but like the article points out, the Byzantines had a share in their fate through their own treachery, especially amongst the ruling class, they also seem to cozy up and use the Muslims as allies when it's convenient for them.
Shouldn't have pillaged Greek territory in the first and second crusade then. Wasn't John the Oxite, Patriarch of Antioch kicked out of town by your heroic crusaders?
I think the Crusaders were heroic. Absolutely. Did they commit atrocities by modern standards, sure, no doubt. So did everyone else practicing warfare at that time. The Crusaders did no more and no less than what everyone else did.  Imagine a world with no Crusaders. Islam quickly finishes off what is left of the Eastern Empire. With no unifying call for Crusade to unite the nobles of the west to defend Christianity Islam keeps pushing. Steam rolls right over all of Europe. If no one is strong enough to stop them they do not stop. Why should they? Once they have conquered all of the Christian lands they consolidate their gains by destroying 99.99% of Christianity and this forum does not exist.
I can't think of any place on the globe that once  been dominated by Islam has ever returned otherwise, especially back to Christianity with the possible exception of Cordoba in Roman Catholic Spain.


See those crescents under the Cross?




Not sure what you're getting at here, most of them lands according to the map is still dominated by Islam with the exception of the Balkans which it never really took root  thanks to the firece resistance of those Eastern Europeans there.

Great pics BTW.
 

Charles Martel

Taxiarches
Joined
Feb 12, 2012
Messages
6,805
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Michał Kalina said:
Charles Martel said:
This map proves my point.

Where are the Mongols today?

Yet Islam thrives.
Yes, especially in Russia, Belarus, Ukraine, Romania and Moldova.
You know where I meant, Iran/Iraq, SW Asia. ME, Turkey, etc.

Places where Islam was already embedded, regardless is the Mongols reigned over then for a short spell.
 

Charles Martel

Taxiarches
Joined
Feb 12, 2012
Messages
6,805
Reaction score
0
Points
0
SolEX01 said:
Gee Charles Martel, stop playing those on-line role playing games and fantasizing about the fifth Crusade or whatever mechanism you're using to achieve world domination.
I don't play on-line games Sol, as a matter of fact, I wouldn't even know how to even try since I'm pretty new to the Internet and lousy with PC's.

BTW, the 5th Crusade took place in Egypt and had nothing to do with "world domination" unlike present day Islam.

Maybe you need to get out of your mothers basement apt in Jersey once in awhile.  ;D
 

mike

Protostrator
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Messages
24,873
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
30
Location
Białystok / Warsaw
Charles Martel said:
Places where Islam was already embedded, regardless is the Mongols reigned over then for a short spell.
Like the Osman Empire, map of what you ignored?

I also wouldn't call 150 years a "short spell". It sounds funny, especially that it was written by a citizen of country only twice that old.
 

Pan Michał

Elder
Joined
Aug 1, 2012
Messages
479
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
34
Location
Warszawa
Michał Kalina said:
I also wouldn't call 150 years a "short spell". It sounds funny, especially that it was written by a citizen of country only twice that old.
I don't get it, why it sounds funny?
 

SolEX01

Toumarches
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
13,791
Reaction score
10
Points
38
Location
Central Maryland
Website
www.goarch.org
Charles Martel said:
SolEX01 said:
Gee Charles Martel, stop playing those on-line role playing games and fantasizing about the fifth Crusade or whatever mechanism you're using to achieve world domination.
I don't play on-line games Sol, as a matter of fact, I wouldn't even know how to even try since I'm pretty new to the Internet and lousy with PC's.
You'll learn quickly.

Charles Martel said:
BTW, the 5th Crusade took place in Egypt and had nothing to do with "world domination" unlike present day Islam.
OK, 6th Crusade, anything you can conjure up to eliminate Islam.

Charles Martel said:
Maybe you need to get out of your mothers basement apt in Jersey once in awhile.  ;D
I like Jersey although I don't call it my home.
 

Charles Martel

Taxiarches
Joined
Feb 12, 2012
Messages
6,805
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Michał Kalina said:
Charles Martel said:
Places where Islam was already embedded, regardless is the Mongols reigned over then for a short spell.
Like the Osman Empire, map of what you ignored?

I also wouldn't call 150 years a "short spell". It sounds funny, especially that it was written by a citizen of country only twice that old.
The Mongols that remained in Asia Minor eventually converted to Islam and became the Ottomans.

Point is, Islam outlasts all the invaders eventually.

And when they're the invaders, they almost never leave.
 

PJ

Taxiarches
Joined
Oct 17, 2006
Messages
6,494
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
New England
Michał Kalina said:
Kerdy said:
Maybe a Billy Graham type crusade would work.
Maybe Charles Martel could stop posting his fantasies here and leave New York to Syria to get at least some insight.
To be fair, only a small fraction of the posts on this thread are from Charles Martel.
 

jmbejdl

OC.Net Guru
Joined
Jan 28, 2005
Messages
1,480
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
45
Location
Aylesbury
Charles Martel said:
Michał Kalina said:
Charles Martel said:
I can't think of any place on the globe that once  been dominated by Islam has ever returned otherwise, especially back to Christianity with the possible exception of Cordoba in Roman Catholic Spain.
This map proves my point.

Where are the Mongols today?

Yet Islam thrives.

There's something wrong with this map. There's no way that finger of the Mongol Empire could have extended across Moldova and Romania at the dates given. The principality of Moldova (which encompassed all of modern Moldova and Bucovina within Romania plus the Republic of Moldova and Northen Bucovina and southern Bessarabia in the Ukraine) was entirely independent at that time as it was ruled by St. Stephen the Great from 1457 to 1504. He did fight battles against the Tartars (Mongols) but was certainly not subject to them.

Sorry for the aside but if you're going to pull an ialmisry and try to take the cartographer's route to forum victory, you could at least pick an accurate map.


James
 

PJ

Taxiarches
Joined
Oct 17, 2006
Messages
6,494
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
New England
vamrat said:
Being a westerner albeit not a western Christian,
Been getting into Native American spirituality, have you?  ;)

(You'll probably say that's corny, but I couldn't resist.)
 

Iconodule

Hoplitarches
Joined
Jan 2, 2010
Messages
16,486
Reaction score
5
Points
38
Age
38
Location
PA, USA
Charles Martel said:
The Mongols that remained in Asia Minor eventually converted to Islam and became the Ottomans.
Um, no. Not even close.
 

Iconodule

Hoplitarches
Joined
Jan 2, 2010
Messages
16,486
Reaction score
5
Points
38
Age
38
Location
PA, USA
Charles Martel said:
Iconodule said:
Charles Martel said:
The Mongols that remained in Asia Minor eventually converted to Islam and became the Ottomans.
Um, no. Not even close.
Prove it.
The burden of proof rests with you to demonstrate your novel theory that the Ottoman Turks are descended from the Mongols.
 

Charles Martel

Taxiarches
Joined
Feb 12, 2012
Messages
6,805
Reaction score
0
Points
0
....Pope says import of arms to Syria a "grave sin"


BEIRUT (Reuters) - Pope Benedict appealed on Friday for a halt to the flow of arms into Syria, saying it would help end a civil war that has killed many thousands of people and which Christians fear could bring Islamists to power.

(can't post link for some reason, but article can be found on Yahoo's main page)



 

Charles Martel

Taxiarches
Joined
Feb 12, 2012
Messages
6,805
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Iconodule said:
Charles Martel said:
Iconodule said:
Charles Martel said:
The Mongols that remained in Asia Minor eventually converted to Islam and became the Ottomans.
Um, no. Not even close.
Prove it.
The burden of proof rests with you to demonstrate your novel theory that the Ottoman Turks are descended from the Mongols.
Not all of them but it is common knowledge that a significant remnant remained what is now modern Turkey after they converted to Islam and the Empire faded with the death of the Khans. I will research more when I have the time and get back to you on this. But this is not the focus of this thread.

 

Pan Michał

Elder
Joined
Aug 1, 2012
Messages
479
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
34
Location
Warszawa
Cyrillic said:
Yes, the Ilkhanate.
I've thought about it, but they were no more Mongols, than French Celts... Plus, the Ilkhanate lands in the Asia Minor were vassalized local societies, not actual Mongols, IIRC.
 
Top