• Please remember: Pray for Ukraine in the Prayer forum; Share news in the Christian News section; Discuss religious implications in FFA: Religious Topics; Discuss political implications in Politics (and if you don't have access, PM me) Thank you! + Fr. George, Forum Administrator

Montreal seminary to test aspiring priests for HIV

boilerguy

Elder
Joined
Sep 28, 2003
Messages
280
Reaction score
1
Points
0
Age
58
Website
www.stmaryprotectress.mb.ca
From the CBC
http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2004/01/12/priests040112
__________________

MONTREAL - A Roman Catholic seminary in Montreal will become the third in Canada to require HIV tests for aspiring priests.

Rev. Marcel Demers, rector of the Grand Seminary of Montreal, said if the virus were contracted through a gay relationship, the seminary "will try to see what the person's calling really is."

Demers said that homosexuals aren't automatically refused admittance to the institution, but their chances of being accepted are slim.


Jean-Claude Cardinal Turcotte

The decision to require the test was made by Jean-Claude Cardinal Turcotte, the archbishop of Montreal. The new rules are expected to be in place in the fall.

Seminaries in both Edmonton and Vancouver require the test for applicants.

The test has outraged some Catholics in Montreal. They say it's discrimination and will only drive people away from their faith.

"I don't believe in that, that's not what Christ wants, that's not what Jesus wants," said 67-year-old church-goer Emile Durocher.

Michael Hendricks, of the Community of People Living with Aids in Quebec, said the decision shows the church's negative attitude towards homosexuals.

"This is just another step on the part of Cardinal Jean-Claude Turcotte to alienate gays from the Church. He's been doing it for some time now."

Meanwhile, the archbishop of Quebec City, Marc Cardinal Ouellette, says he has no plans to introduce HIV testing for aspiring priests.



Written by CBC News Online staff

 

Br Max OFC

OC.Net Guru
Joined
Nov 19, 2003
Messages
1,418
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
50
Location
Homestead, Pennsylvania - USA
Michael Hendricks, of the Community of People Living with Aids in Quebec, said the decision shows the church's negative attitude towards homosexuals.
What right does the homosexual community have to dictate to the Christian community? We don't go in and tell them how to conduct their orgies . . . . oy vey the way some people think.
 

Donna Rose

High Elder
Joined
Jul 21, 2003
Messages
937
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
38
Location
New York
I'm a little confused...I thought there were other ways to contract HIV/AIDS besides through sex, or am I mistaken? ???

Maybe I'm still thinking about the first few years this thing was around, back in the 80s (when I was a wee lil kid :))
 

Br Max OFC

OC.Net Guru
Joined
Nov 19, 2003
Messages
1,418
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
50
Location
Homestead, Pennsylvania - USA
Donna: oh there are other ways to contract the virus, but primarily it is transmitted through the exchange of bodily fluids which makes sex the primary form of transmission.
 

Donna Rose

High Elder
Joined
Jul 21, 2003
Messages
937
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
38
Location
New York
Br. Max said:
Donna: oh there are other ways to contract the virus, but primarily it is transmitted through the exchange of bodily fluids which makes sex the primary form of transmission.
so then how can the fact that a person has HIV/AIDS be used to judge whether or not that person is more or less fit for the priesthood, since there are other ways to get it besides homosexual activity?
 

Br Max OFC

OC.Net Guru
Joined
Nov 19, 2003
Messages
1,418
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
50
Location
Homestead, Pennsylvania - USA
donna: The general health of a person is a very good reason to exclude some one from the priesthood. First of all, why should the church embrace into the ministry someone who is not only dying, but is dying of a highly communicable disease? HOWEVER, given the current crisis in the RC church, I cannot disagree with any measure to keep sexual deviants out of the priesthood.
 

Anastasios

Merarches
Staff member
Administrator
Joined
Oct 3, 2002
Messages
10,585
Reaction score
47
Points
48
Location
Reston, VA
Website
www.anastasioshudson.com
Faith
Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction
Greek Old Calendarist
Donna,

That's why they said IF it was determined to have come from gay sex THEN they would do something about it. :)

anastasios
 

Donna Rose

High Elder
Joined
Jul 21, 2003
Messages
937
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
38
Location
New York
First of all, why should the church embrace into the ministry someone who is not only dying, but is dying of a highly communicable disease?
I never thought of the church as something that a person has to be of a certain level of health in order to serve...I always thought of the desire to serve as a gift that the church would never turn down, as long as the desire is true and selfless. I am not challenging, simply stating my perplexity to hear this is so...

And it makes me uneasy to think that a person's calling to serve God might be *challenged* based on a blood test and whatever means they might have in determining that the virus has been contracted through homosexual activity and not some other way...

I pray that those with a false calling see the error of (all) their ways, and those with a true calling are not turned away from service to God because of this...

In Christ's Love
~*Donna
 

Br Max OFC

OC.Net Guru
Joined
Nov 19, 2003
Messages
1,418
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
50
Location
Homestead, Pennsylvania - USA
donna: There are restrictions placed upon the physical condition of a priest both by scripture and by tradition. For example - since the right thumb of a priest is anointed in his ordination, a man with-out that thumb is precluded from becoming a priest.
 

boilerguy

Elder
Joined
Sep 28, 2003
Messages
280
Reaction score
1
Points
0
Age
58
Website
www.stmaryprotectress.mb.ca
Br. Max said:
donna: There are restrictions placed upon the physical condition of a priest both by scripture and by tradition. For example - since the right thumb of a priest is anointed in his ordination, a man with-out that thumb is precluded from becoming a priest.
Legalistic nonsense! :p
 

peterfarrington

Protokentarchos
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Aug 28, 2003
Messages
3,559
Reaction score
84
Points
48
Age
59
Location
Maidstone, Kent, England
Website
www.stgeorgeministry.com
Faith
Coptic Orthodox
Jurisdiction
Patriarchal Diocese
I'd expect a fairly reasonable health check to be a normal part of preparation for any Christian ministry. It's certainly what would have happened had I remained Evangelical and become a missionary. Even for a job application people would expect some information about their health to be asked of them. Or the Army.

If someone with terminal cancer and only a few weeks to live applied for a seminary place would it not be right to take that into account? Why not also other diseases that would have an effect on a ministry.

I have two close friends who have HIV/AIDS contracted through blood products since they are haemophiliacs. For years I shared the communion cup with them, till I became Orthodox. Nevertheless it is a contagious disease and like other contagious diseases it should be notified to someone as important as a seminary.

How it would then be dealt with is a different question and I can imagine bothe sympathetic and unsympathetic treatments. But the asking of the question does not strike me as iniquitous. I am asked the same question each time I give blood.
 

the slave

High Elder
Joined
Oct 18, 2002
Messages
810
Reaction score
1
Points
16
Location
Scotland
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
I'm with Sub-deacon Peter here.

Certainly in the UK our Seminarians are fully supported by their Dioceses with regard to Tuition and Board and some help towards books etc. It does seem reasonable that their Bishops can be assured that, barring a totally unexpected health problem , their heavy investment wilol ensure that the Student and in due course Priest will be able to serve for a reasonable amount of time .

I'm quizzed every time I give blood.

And at a personal level - some members here are aware of this but others are not.

My younger daughter is a Prison Office in a male prison - she is 5ft 2" and not exactly heavy. Three Christmases ago she was off sick for 8 weeks - she had been bitten by a prisoner in the course of trying to protect his breathing whilst he was subdued [ he had 'flipped his lid ' is the way it was put to me ] . That prisoner knew his rights - and refused to be tested for HIV and HepC . Tina's hand was very badly infected and she was given anti- HIV drugs. These in themselves are not without danger - and though she is as far as can be ascertained free from HepC and HIV she does still have liver damage from the drugs.

I feel pretty strongly that whilst we do not treat infected people by putting them in a Ghetto - the public at large must have some protection - and testing people with their permisson is one way of doing this.

What you do with the person who refuses to be tested - well that is a different story.
 

MsGuided

Elder
Joined
Apr 29, 2003
Messages
478
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
38
Location
New York
Donna Rose said:
I never thought of the church as something that a person has to be of a certain level of health in order to serve...I always thought of the desire to serve as a gift that the church would never turn down, as long as the desire is true and selfless. I am not challenging, simply stating my perplexity to hear this is so...
This makes me think of JPII's position, although I understand this is different, he was healthy when he became Pope.

Kim

But now, he must celebrate masses sitting down, seems quite limited in his abilities during mass, etc. As a separate inquiry, would his health merit his being "forced into early retirement"? And if not (because he is the Pope) then can it be so for other clergy?
 

boilerguy

Elder
Joined
Sep 28, 2003
Messages
280
Reaction score
1
Points
0
Age
58
Website
www.stmaryprotectress.mb.ca
Br. Max said:
How can some one be made a priest if the ordination cannot be properly carried out?
Legalism? lol I guess you would advocate the ordination of eunuchs??
I believe that the spirit of economeia should prevail in this matter. A spiritual, God-fearing man who tragically lost his right thumb in an industrial accident, and feels a calling to the ministery, should not be kept out of seminary.

Comments from Orthodox? What does the Church tell us in this regard? Are we as legalistic as the RCs in this matter?
 

Mor Ephrem

Hypatos
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Oct 3, 2002
Messages
36,444
Reaction score
339
Points
83
Age
41
Location
New York!
Website
www.orthodoxchristianity.net
Faith
Mercenary Freudianism
Jurisdiction
Texas Feminist Coptic
Br. Max said:
For example - since the right thumb of a priest is anointed in his ordination, a man with-out that thumb is precluded from becoming a priest.
Do the Latins even do this anymore? I didn't think so, unless one was ordaining according to the pre-Vatican II Roman rite (and even then, my recollection is that it was not only the right thumb, but the thumb and index finger of both hands).
 

carpo-rusyn

Elder
Joined
May 8, 2003
Messages
383
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Philadelphia, Pa.
Actually the whole thumb and forefinger thing isn't done anymore.

To be practical I can see why the Montreal diocese would screen for HIV and that is money. When I applied for and was accepted to study for the RC priesthood by my local diocese I had to take a physical and bloodwork was done. I questioned this and was told that the Church didn't want to have to pay for long term medical care and didn't want to go thru the training of a priest who would then be laid up soon after ordination with medical problems and unable to serve the Church.

CR
 
Top