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Mor Ephrem wants to hear everything you know about...

Jonathan Gress

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They killed our Lord!

Or maybe it's those other bearded freaks. I get confused a lot.
 

PeterTheAleut

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I think it was the late Sergeant Schultz who said quite famously, "I know nothink!"
 

Jonathan Gress

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PeterTheAleut said:
I think it was the late Sergeant Schultz who said quite famously, "I know nothink!"
Same here. Yeah let's hope for some input from those who actually know something. Weren't there a couple of ex-Muslims on this forum?
 

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There are a lot of members....
 

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I have a few Muslim friends. Have had Muslim neighbors and coworkers. Done my share of reading. Really, folks, overall they're a couple of billion perfectly nice people and it would be sane to take a look at world events that's not hamstrung by a hyper-religious surreality.

(Sorry, Mor, if I'm being deaf to the tone of the thread. I have pretty much just one gear.)
 

Agabus

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The Koran is pretty boring.
 

Jonathan Gress

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I remember discussing Islam with my dad, and he's very polemical against Islam and one of the things he hated about them was how they claimed all our prophets as their own and tried to present themselves as an older faith than they really were. While I agreed with him on one level, since I don't believe Islam is true so necessarily our prophets can't have really been prophesying Islam, it struck me that the Orthodox position viz. Judaism was similar. We claim the Jewish prophets for our own, and while Jews think these prophets are exclusive to their tradition, we Christians believe that all along they were prophesying Christianity.

My dad, though Catholic, is basically a dispensationalist and thinks the Jews are specifically exempted from having to become Christian in order to be saved, so the Islamic way of appropriating other traditions seems more foreign to him than to me. My point is not that the Orthodox attitude to the prophets is incorrect but rather that Western Christianity is perhaps now dominated by the idea that Christianity grew out of Judaism but is something fundamentally separate, rather than the older view, still prevalent in Orthodoxy, that there is no such fundamental separation.
 

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Here are some interesting folks, in some way connected with Islam, that a person such as myself would list in this here thread...

Abu Nuwas (756-814)
Ibn al-Rawandi (827-911)
Abu Bakr al-Razi  (854-925)
Abul ʿAla Al-Maʿarri  (973-1057)
 

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GabrieltheCelt was a Muslim "for just under 10 years," but he hasn't been on the forum in about a month.
 

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Porter ODoran said:
I have a few Muslim friends. Have had Muslim neighbors and coworkers. Done my share of reading. Really, folks, overall they're a couple of billion perfectly nice people and it would be sane to take a look at world events that's not hamstrung by a hyper-religious surreality.

(Sorry, Mor, if I'm being deaf to the tone of the thread. I have pretty much just one gear.)
Same here, we have a lot of Somalis around here and 99.9% of them are model citizens. They saved Minneapolis, in fact (downtown Minneapolis used to be called "Murderapolis", with an extremely high crime rate, until the Somalis began arriving). Many of them, especially women, have become entrepreneurs. It's quite amazing how well they've adapted to life in the USA, especially given that Somali communities in Norway and Sweden haven't been doing nearly as well. (There have been government officials from those countries who have come here to figure out "what our secret" is).

I think maybe part of the secret is that in Europe, immigrant communities are often "ghettoized" and don't have as much day-to-day contact with non-immigrants (or vice versa). There's far less segregation over here, and as a result, less potential for radicalization. It's much harder to demonize all non-Muslims (or all Muslims) when many of them are your friends, coworkers and neighbors.
 

wgw

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The Alevi and Bektasi sects are non violent Shia Sufis who many including some in their ranks consider to be crypto Christians.  Comprising both Turks and Kurds, they represent a distinct religion from Hanafi Sunni Prthodoxy in Turkey and are horribly discriminated against by the Erdogan regime.  They practice a liturgy called a cem, in a building called a cemevi, which features three ceremonial candles, communal wine reminiscent of the Eucharist, and beautiful folk singing and dancing, on Thursday nights.  At the end of the service the candles are extinguished.  The Sunni Turks have vicious and untrue folklore that the Alevis then engage in orgies, to the extent that "the candle went out" is a popular way of alluding to sexual impropriety in Turkish Sunni Society.

  The Alevis represent about 12% of the Turkish population.

About 11% of Alevis, known as Ishikists, reject the Islamic identity and rather embrace what they call Yazdanism, a belief they are a member of a family of esoteric religions also including the Yazidis,,the Yarsanis (also known as the Tajj e Haqq), the Zoroastrians and the now extinct Christian Gnostics.  This view holds that Alevism is a part of an esoteric meta-religion that holds the true secrets of the universe and has always existed in different forms.

The Bektasi Sufi Order, which is closely related to Alevism but also practices monasticism, and shares with Alevism the Cem ritual, is the religion commonly referred to as "Shia Islam" in demographic statistics in Albania and Macedonia.  These Bektasis have suffered severe anuses from the Sunnis in recent years.  There is also a historic Bektasi presence in Turkey closely related to, as in, in some form of "communion" with the Alevis.

Until recently the Alevis did not really accept converts, but recently a Japanese professor who studies Turkish culture and anthropology who had studied the Alevis was warmly welcomed into their religion.

The Alevis are also related to the Alawis of Syria.  However Bashar Al Assad has tried to suppress the distinct attributes of his Alawi coreligionists in order to better ingratiate himself with other Muslim rulers in the region.  The Alawis are also more secretive.

Like most Minority religions in the Middle East, and like all Shia, the Alevi and Bektasi will practice dissimulation and try to pass the,selves off as Sunni if their survival is threatened.  However as Christians our Lord has commanded us to accept martyrdom, and only a few heretical sects like the Valentinians practiced Gnosticism.  There is a Gnostic influence, a faint one, in Alevi Islam; Druze is basically not Islam at all but a Neo Gnostic, neo Platonic religion.

I believe Alevism represents the template for how Christians should want Islam to look in order to ensure lasting peace in the Middle East.  We need to work to reshape Islam in the image of the Alevis and other non violent Minority groups like the Mevlevis, or Whirlimg Dervishes, in order to entirely suppress the literalism that gave rise to ISIS.  Alevis should also in theory be amenable to Chrostian evangelism which is harder with Sunnis.

 

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Minnesotan said:
Porter ODoran said:
I have a few Muslim friends. Have had Muslim neighbors and coworkers. Done my share of reading. Really, folks, overall they're a couple of billion perfectly nice people and it would be sane to take a look at world events that's not hamstrung by a hyper-religious surreality.

(Sorry, Mor, if I'm being deaf to the tone of the thread. I have pretty much just one gear.)
Same here, we have a lot of Somalis around here and 99.9% of them are model citizens. They saved Minneapolis, in fact (downtown Minneapolis used to be called "Murderapolis", with an extremely high crime rate, until the Somalis began arriving). Many of them, especially women, have become entrepreneurs. It's quite amazing how well they've adapted to life in the USA, especially given that Somali communities in Norway and Sweden haven't been doing nearly as well. (There have been government officials from those countries who have come here to figure out "what our secret" is).

I think maybe part of the secret is that in Europe, immigrant communities are often "ghettoized" and don't have as much day-to-day contact with non-immigrants (or vice versa). There's far less segregation over here, and as a result, less potential for radicalization. It's much harder to demonize all non-Muslims (or all Muslims) when many of them are your friends, coworkers and neighbors.
It seems like your positive view on Somali immigration isn't shared by all. While I'm happy to agree with the statement that "good" (meaning well-socialized, law-abiding, economically productive) Muslims exist, I think smart Western countries keep Muslim immigration as low as possible.
 

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Minnesotan said:
I think maybe part of the secret is that in Europe, immigrant communities are often "ghettoized" and don't have as much day-to-day contact with non-immigrants (or vice versa). There's far less segregation over here, and as a result, less potential for radicalization. It's much harder to demonize all non-Muslims (or all Muslims) when many of them are your friends, coworkers and neighbors.
While I'm not sure to what "secret" you refer, I'll just comment on the rest: The European countries, unlike the U.S., had vast colonial holdings in Islamic lands; thus the dynamic of whom and how many and what sort of Muslim immigrant they became responsible to accommodate is not the same as America's. In other words, what I am suggesting is that, much as we have inherited the difficult problems of slavery's aftermath, and argue much over how to resolve them, so, say, France must cope with its Algerian aftermath and learn whether and how to repent, and there will be outsized political and social tension in the meantime.
 

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Jonathan Gress said:
Minnesotan said:
Porter ODoran said:
I have a few Muslim friends. Have had Muslim neighbors and coworkers. Done my share of reading. Really, folks, overall they're a couple of billion perfectly nice people and it would be sane to take a look at world events that's not hamstrung by a hyper-religious surreality.

(Sorry, Mor, if I'm being deaf to the tone of the thread. I have pretty much just one gear.)
Same here, we have a lot of Somalis around here and 99.9% of them are model citizens. They saved Minneapolis, in fact (downtown Minneapolis used to be called "Murderapolis", with an extremely high crime rate, until the Somalis began arriving). Many of them, especially women, have become entrepreneurs. It's quite amazing how well they've adapted to life in the USA, especially given that Somali communities in Norway and Sweden haven't been doing nearly as well. (There have been government officials from those countries who have come here to figure out "what our secret" is).

I think maybe part of the secret is that in Europe, immigrant communities are often "ghettoized" and don't have as much day-to-day contact with non-immigrants (or vice versa). There's far less segregation over here, and as a result, less potential for radicalization. It's much harder to demonize all non-Muslims (or all Muslims) when many of them are your friends, coworkers and neighbors.
It seems like your positive view on Somali immigration isn't shared by all. While I'm happy to agree with the statement that "good" (meaning well-socialized, law-abiding, economically productive) Muslims exist, I think smart Western countries keep Muslim immigration as low as possible.
You take one negative example and use it as a basis for sweeping multinational policy (if you were emperor of the West)? I hope that felt good, because it earned you few points in affecting the reasoning of your fellow posters.
 

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Porter ODoran said:
Jonathan Gress said:
Minnesotan said:
Porter ODoran said:
I have a few Muslim friends. Have had Muslim neighbors and coworkers. Done my share of reading. Really, folks, overall they're a couple of billion perfectly nice people and it would be sane to take a look at world events that's not hamstrung by a hyper-religious surreality.

(Sorry, Mor, if I'm being deaf to the tone of the thread. I have pretty much just one gear.)
Same here, we have a lot of Somalis around here and 99.9% of them are model citizens. They saved Minneapolis, in fact (downtown Minneapolis used to be called "Murderapolis", with an extremely high crime rate, until the Somalis began arriving). Many of them, especially women, have become entrepreneurs. It's quite amazing how well they've adapted to life in the USA, especially given that Somali communities in Norway and Sweden haven't been doing nearly as well. (There have been government officials from those countries who have come here to figure out "what our secret" is).

I think maybe part of the secret is that in Europe, immigrant communities are often "ghettoized" and don't have as much day-to-day contact with non-immigrants (or vice versa). There's far less segregation over here, and as a result, less potential for radicalization. It's much harder to demonize all non-Muslims (or all Muslims) when many of them are your friends, coworkers and neighbors.
It seems like your positive view on Somali immigration isn't shared by all. While I'm happy to agree with the statement that "good" (meaning well-socialized, law-abiding, economically productive) Muslims exist, I think smart Western countries keep Muslim immigration as low as possible.
You take one negative example and use it as a basis for sweeping multinational policy (if you were emperor of the West)? I hope that felt good, because it earned you few points in affecting the reasoning of your fellow posters.
At least I cite sources for my claims and don't pull statistics out of my anus like your pal here. If you think Muslim immigration is a great idea I suppose youre entitled to your deeply held beliefs.



Profanity removed by moderator  -PtA

You are being placed on Post Moderation for the next 8 days for profanity. If you wish to appeal my warning, please send a PM to LizaSymonenko.

-PeterTheAleut
 

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Minnesotan said:
Porter ODoran said:
I have a few Muslim friends. Have had Muslim neighbors and coworkers. Done my share of reading. Really, folks, overall they're a couple of billion perfectly nice people and it would be sane to take a look at world events that's not hamstrung by a hyper-religious surreality.

(Sorry, Mor, if I'm being deaf to the tone of the thread. I have pretty much just one gear.)
Same here, we have a lot of Somalis around here and 99.9% of them are model citizens. They saved Minneapolis, in fact (downtown Minneapolis used to be called "Murderapolis", with an extremely high crime rate, until the Somalis began arriving). Many of them, especially women, have become entrepreneurs. It's quite amazing how well they've adapted to life in the USA, especially given that Somali communities in Norway and Sweden haven't been doing nearly as well. (There have been government officials from those countries who have come here to figure out "what our secret" is).

I think maybe part of the secret is that in Europe, immigrant communities are often "ghettoized" and don't have as much day-to-day contact with non-immigrants (or vice versa). There's far less segregation over here, and as a result, less potential for radicalization. It's much harder to demonize all non-Muslims (or all Muslims) when many of them are your friends, coworkers and neighbors.
Your secret is that you don't have a welfare state. "Food" is a pretty strong incentive to adapt. Also, AFAIK Somali culture is pretty business-oriented and you have less bureucracy to inhibit that.
 

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Jonathan Gress said:
Porter ODoran said:
Jonathan Gress said:
Minnesotan said:
Porter ODoran said:
I have a few Muslim friends. Have had Muslim neighbors and coworkers. Done my share of reading. Really, folks, overall they're a couple of billion perfectly nice people and it would be sane to take a look at world events that's not hamstrung by a hyper-religious surreality.

(Sorry, Mor, if I'm being deaf to the tone of the thread. I have pretty much just one gear.)
Same here, we have a lot of Somalis around here and 99.9% of them are model citizens. They saved Minneapolis, in fact (downtown Minneapolis used to be called "Murderapolis", with an extremely high crime rate, until the Somalis began arriving). Many of them, especially women, have become entrepreneurs. It's quite amazing how well they've adapted to life in the USA, especially given that Somali communities in Norway and Sweden haven't been doing nearly as well. (There have been government officials from those countries who have come here to figure out "what our secret" is).

I think maybe part of the secret is that in Europe, immigrant communities are often "ghettoized" and don't have as much day-to-day contact with non-immigrants (or vice versa). There's far less segregation over here, and as a result, less potential for radicalization. It's much harder to demonize all non-Muslims (or all Muslims) when many of them are your friends, coworkers and neighbors.
It seems like your positive view on Somali immigration isn't shared by all. While I'm happy to agree with the statement that "good" (meaning well-socialized, law-abiding, economically productive) Muslims exist, I think smart Western countries keep Muslim immigration as low as possible.
You take one negative example and use it as a basis for sweeping multinational policy (if you were emperor of the West)? I hope that felt good, because it earned you few points in affecting the reasoning of your fellow posters.
At least I cite sources for my claims and don't pull statistics out of my anus like your pal here. If you think Muslim immigration is a great idea I suppose youre entitled to your deeply held beliefs.



Profanity removed by moderator  -PtA
Why such anger? Really I don't understand the intensity of the emotions surrounding Islam in the average conservative Western mind, which is hardly effected by related current events. Oh and yeah, no, I don't think one report from one sheriff about one gang arises to "statistics." Minnesotan's thoughtfully-gathered observations of his own city amount to more "data" than that.
 

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Mor just wanted to watch the forum melt down.
 

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The Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa sallam) said, "A man saw a dog eating mud from (the severity of) thirst. So, that man took a shoe (and filled it) with water and kept on pouring the water for the dog till it quenched its thirst. So Allah approved of his deed and made him to enter Paradise." {Saheeh Bukhari 173 Book 4, Hadith 39}
 

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Porter ODoran said:
Mor just wanted to watch the forum melt down.
That opens up a whole world of possibilities...

"You wanna know how I got this scar? My priest was a bully and a fiend. Well one liturgy he was particularly angry, and he took the lance and......... .. ...  why so serious?"
 

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Porter ODoran said:
Jonathan Gress said:
Porter ODoran said:
Jonathan Gress said:
Minnesotan said:
Porter ODoran said:
I have a few Muslim friends. Have had Muslim neighbors and coworkers. Done my share of reading. Really, folks, overall they're a couple of billion perfectly nice people and it would be sane to take a look at world events that's not hamstrung by a hyper-religious surreality.

(Sorry, Mor, if I'm being deaf to the tone of the thread. I have pretty much just one gear.)
Same here, we have a lot of Somalis around here and 99.9% of them are model citizens. They saved Minneapolis, in fact (downtown Minneapolis used to be called "Murderapolis", with an extremely high crime rate, until the Somalis began arriving). Many of them, especially women, have become entrepreneurs. It's quite amazing how well they've adapted to life in the USA, especially given that Somali communities in Norway and Sweden haven't been doing nearly as well. (There have been government officials from those countries who have come here to figure out "what our secret" is).

I think maybe part of the secret is that in Europe, immigrant communities are often "ghettoized" and don't have as much day-to-day contact with non-immigrants (or vice versa). There's far less segregation over here, and as a result, less potential for radicalization. It's much harder to demonize all non-Muslims (or all Muslims) when many of them are your friends, coworkers and neighbors.
It seems like your positive view on Somali immigration isn't shared by all. While I'm happy to agree with the statement that "good" (meaning well-socialized, law-abiding, economically productive) Muslims exist, I think smart Western countries keep Muslim immigration as low as possible.
You take one negative example and use it as a basis for sweeping multinational policy (if you were emperor of the West)? I hope that felt good, because it earned you few points in affecting the reasoning of your fellow posters.
At least I cite sources for my claims and don't pull statistics out of my anus like your pal here. If you think Muslim immigration is a great idea I suppose youre entitled to your deeply held beliefs.



Profanity removed by moderator  -PtA
Why such anger? Really I don't understand the intensity of the emotions surrounding Islam in the average conservative Western mind, which is hardly effected by related current events. Oh and yeah, no, I don't think one report from one sheriff about one gang arises to "statistics." Minnesotan's thoughtfully-gathered observations of his own city amount to more "data" than that.
Minnesotan claimed "99.9%" of Somalis are model citizens. I'm 99.9% sure he just made that number up. While I respect that he lives in the city, his evidence is anecdotal. The fact is, organized Somali crime is a thing, and it fits into a broader pattern of anti-social behavior on the part of Muslim immigrants seen throughout the Western world. Muslim immigrants are bad news in their current numbers. That's the point. If we kept Muslim immigration to a trickle, the chances of getting the bad apples would be very small, but since we're letting in so many, our chances of getting the criminals and fanatics go way up. It's just the law of large numbers.

So already this got political, sorry about that.
 

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Jonathan Gress said:
Minnesotan claimed "99.9%" of Somalis are model citizens. I'm 99.9% sure he just made that number up. While I respect that he lives in the city, his evidence is anecdotal.
Figure of speech. Gosh.

The fact is, organized Somali crime is a thing ...
Okay, so you broaden your one incident into one phenomenon. That's good going, but the real work lies ahead of you.

... and it fits into a broader pattern of anti-social behavior on the part of Muslim immigrants seen throughout the Western world.
This you'd have to demonstrate, and, since it's a claim so large and subjective, indeed you'd have a lot of demonstrating to do.

Muslim immigrants are bad news in their current numbers. That's the point. If we kept Muslim immigration to a trickle, the chances of getting the bad apples would be very small, but since we're letting in so many, our chances of getting the criminals and fanatics go way up. It's just the law of large numbers.
Now none of this follows from the above at all. You're returning to your perch in the sky, issuing sweeping condemnations, and sweeping calls to action of a curious and cruel nature.
 

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Porter ODoran said:
Jonathan Gress said:
Minnesotan claimed "99.9%" of Somalis are model citizens. I'm 99.9% sure he just made that number up. While I respect that he lives in the city, his evidence is anecdotal.
Figure of speech. Gosh.

The fact is, organized Somali crime is a thing ...
Okay, so you broaden your one incident into one phenomenon. That's good going, but the real work lies ahead of you.

... and it fits into a broader pattern of anti-social behavior on the part of Muslim immigrants seen throughout the Western world.
This you'd have to demonstrate, and, since it's a claim so large and subjective, indeed you'd have a lot of demonstrating to do.

Muslim immigrants are bad news in their current numbers. That's the point. If we kept Muslim immigration to a trickle, the chances of getting the bad apples would be very small, but since we're letting in so many, our chances of getting the criminals and fanatics go way up. It's just the law of large numbers.
Now none of this follows from the above at all. You're returning to your perch in the sky, issuing sweeping condemnations, and sweeping calls to action of a curious and cruel nature.
Would we have Somali gangs in Minneapolis if Somalis had not been allowed to move there in the first place? We can start my demonstration by answering that.
 

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wgw said:
The Bektasi Sufi Order, which is closely related to Alevism but also practices monasticism, and shares with Alevism the Cem ritual, is the religion commonly referred to as "Shia Islam" in demographic statistics in Albania and Macedonia.  These Bektasis have suffered severe anuses from the Sunnis in recent years.  There is also a historic Bektasi presence in Turkey closely related to, as in, in some form of "communion" with the Alevis.
Too many contemptible people? :laugh:
 

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Islam is a heresy of Judeo-Christian beliefs.

Mohammad claims the Koran came to him in a dream in which God appointed him a prophet. Saint John the Damascene (am I correct?) stated "me thinks you are spinning me dreams".
Mohammad is a false prophet. Holy Orthodoxy does not consider Islam to be a religion.

In my humble opinion Islam is a cult. They profess peace yet condone violence against any trifling affront. They are, as far as icons, in direct opposition to the 7th Ecumenical Conference. Any image of Mohammad (be it derogatory or not) is enough to send them into a frenzy of violence and destruction.

They believe that Jesus is a prophet and not the only begotten Son of the Father. They believe that in some miraculous fashion Christ was replaced by Judas Iscariot on the Cross, and that Christ never suffered a mortal death but was assumed into heaven. They also believe that Mohammad was assumed into heaven at the dome of the rock.

They are beset with a myriad of schisms and counter viewpoints. They argue over whether only Mohammad's direct descendants are eligible to be Imams and Ayatollahs.

They acknowledge Jews and Christians to be "people of the Book" but yet slaughter them as "infidels".

They disavow the Holy Trinity and insist that God is one Entity rather than three Entities in one Godhead.

In short they are a frightful mess of conflicting views and beliefs.

JMHO

Glory to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit, now and forever. Amen. Amen. Amen.
 

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And can anyone truly explain to me (in simple terms please - as my wife claims I have the makings of a very good simpleton) just exactly what a "Fatwa" is ?? It seems as though any Muslim can issue one of these. Is it some kind of edict?? Like a Papal Bull??  Mostly, from what I have gathered, these "Fatwas" are like mafia contracts to eliminate someone who has in some way offended Mohammad or Islam.

Glory to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit, now and forever. Amen. Amen. Amen.

 

Porter ODoran

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Somebody needs to get some Rumi up in here.
 

Porter ODoran

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Who knows that Islam's brash young thinkers took up where Aristotle left off, in math and science? This was after Christendom had had centuries to work out any of this and were content merely spinning their gears. From Islam's intellectual leaps early modern science was then able to take up the race, and we have all been taught how much to revere modern science.
 

PeterTheAleut

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Michael1950 said:
Islam is a heresy of Judeo-Christian beliefs.

Mohammad claims the Koran came to him in a dream in which God appointed him a prophet. Saint John the Damascene (am I correct?) stated "me thinks you are spinning me dreams".
Mohammad is a false prophet. Holy Orthodoxy does not consider Islam to be a religion.
What "Holy Orthodoxy" are you talking about that doesn't consider Islam to be a religion? ??? Islam is very much a religion! :mad: Now it's certainly not a true religion, but you can't deny that it's a religion.

Michael1950 said:
In my humble opinion Islam is a cult.
You may get a lot more mileage saying that. :)
 

Charles Martel

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In my humble opinion Islam is a cult.
No more tham much of what passes for "christianity" these days.

Mohammad claims the Koran came to him in a dream in which God appointed him a prophet.
God never came to anyone in a dream in the bible?

Holy Orthodoxy does not consider Islam to be a religion.
Is that doctrine in the EO?

They profess peace yet condone violence against any trifling affront.
Sounds like the tactics of zany bible-thumping Zionist christians.

image of Mohammad (be it derogatory or not) is enough to send them into a frenzy of violence and destruction.
The image of the crucifix seems to have the same effect in the secular West these days. Or to some zany evangelicals, statues and images of the BVM and the Saints.

They believe that Jesus is a prophet and not the only begotten Son of the Father.
Then he is neither. Prophets cannot lie.

They also believe that Mohammad was assumed into heaven at the dome of the rock.
Yea, whatever.

They are beset with a myriad of schisms and counter viewpoints.
Are we talking christians here?

They argue over whether only Mohammad's direct descendants are eligible to be Imams and Ayatollahs.
Christians argue over just about anything and everything. Especially just who is the "true" Church. It never ends.

disavow the Holy Trinity and insist that God is one Entity rather than three Entities in one Godhead.
This is a very difficult concept for nonchristian monotheists to comprehend.

In short they are a frightful mess of conflicting views and beliefs.
Again, many can say the same thing about Christianity.

Glory to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit, now and forever. Amen. Amen. Amen.
Allah Akbar!!

Just kidding. Couldn't resist that. 8)
 

hecma925

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Charles Martel said:
disavow the Holy Trinity and insist that God is one Entity rather than three Entities in one Godhead.
This is a very difficult concept for nonchristian monotheists to comprehend.
Even Christians have trouble understanding it.
 

Cyrillic

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But my heart belongs to Finland
Kebab is nice.

Jonathan Gress said:
At least I cite sources for my claims and don't pull statistics out of my anus like your pal here. If you think Muslim immigration is a great idea I suppose youre entitled to your deeply held beliefs.

Profanity removed by moderator  -PtA

You are being placed on Post Moderation for the next 8 days for profanity. If you wish to appeal my warning, please send a PM to LizaSymonenko.

-PeterTheAleut
The pillories are back at last. How nice.

Anus does sound more vulgar than that which probably preceded it. It's a bit more graphic. The mental images certainly are worse. I'm not arguing with the choice of words, though. To each his own.
 

TheTrisagion

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All I know about Islam?  Well there was this guy who lived in the desert and claimed he had visions from God, so he and a bunch of his posse got together and made up a religion and then started killing people in the name of it and it has been happening ever since. 
 

kelly

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Porter ODoran said:
Mor just wanted to watch the forum melt down.
Some men just want to watch the world burn.
 

scamandrius

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Agabus said:
The Koran is pretty boring.
+1.  It doesn't even qualify as literature in my opinion.
 
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