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Mor Ephrem wants to hear everything you know about...

Charles Martel

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What makes you think we want you back?
Just who's "we" little cyrie? You have a mouse in your pocket?

Weren't you shilling for the muzzies lately because they hated the jooz just as much as you do?
Pfft, they can take out each other for all I care. It's a win/win.

Then they can all leave together and go back to the holey land and beat up on each other some more.

BTW, who you shilling for?
 

WPM

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It is just your opinion posted on the Internet boards...  ::)
 

Porter ODoran

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Ah how appropriate when a poster who posts hatred for races begins to post hatred for fellow posters and thus exposes his true motivations. "Of the abundance of the heart ..."
 

Charles Martel

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Currently Europe does not really want a "hammer" to deal with those Semitic and African peoples there now, as they are still suffering from the embarrassment and shame of WWII
Semites and Africans are still suffering from WWII? That's news to me. Unless you mean the Western allies, because they're about to get a taste of shame and embarrassment themselves if they keep poking that Russian bear in the east.

The Hammer stopped the advancement into Europe as the Saracens barely were in the Aquitaine and couldn't really capture to hold the city although I am sure one could "proudly" say they were in Europe,
Yes, and if it wasn't for the success at the Battle of Tours, Europe would've been effectively Moslem today. there is no debate about this.

as they had overrun Spain for better than 700 years.
And as they were effectively disapatched by Catholics out of "Cordoba" for good. Catholics seem to have the an answer for Islam, well, historically they once did. Until now where the pope "lubs" everybody. Even the koran.

All else is opinion, speculation and idle chatter for the most part.
Well, it is at least YOUR opinion.
 

Charles Martel

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Porter ODoran said:
Ah how appropriate when a poster who posts hatred for races begins to post hatred for fellow posters and thus exposes his true motivations. "Of the abundance of the heart ..."
That's it Porter, it's all"hatred" when you have any oppostion of your "opinion" as well.

I challenge you to prove anything I posted is as  defined as "hatred" to any other "race".

BTW, what is in your heart towards me Porter? Hate?

Christians are the worst kinds of hypocrites.
 

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Charles Martel said:
BTW, who you shilling for?
International Jewry. The pay and benefits are bad, of course. They're as stingy with their shekels as report has it. Do your sheiks pay you any better, did Putin loan you to them or do you suck up to them free of charge?

Charles Martel said:
What makes you think we want you back?
Just who's "we" little cyrie? You have a mouse in your pocket?
Europeans. We already had our fair share of immigrants. To quote the Australians...

 

Michael1950

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Charles Martel said:
Porter ODoran said:
Ah how appropriate when a poster who posts hatred for races begins to post hatred for fellow posters and thus exposes his true motivations. "Of the abundance of the heart ..."
That's it Porter, it's all"hatred" when you have any oppostion of your "opinion" as well.

I challenge you to prove anything I posted is as  defined as "hatred" to any other "race".

BTW, what is in your heart towards me Porter? Hate?

Christians are the worst kinds of hypocrites.
I see much contentiousness from so many on these threads. It is sad - so sad. As far as hypocrisy I don't think Christians have a monopoly.

We all seem to forget Christ's great Commandment : "A new commandment I give to you - that you love one another even as I have loved you. By this will all know you are my disciples - that you have love for one another."
 

Charles Martel

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International Jewry.
Well, you are a "Judeo" Christian are you not? I suspect you'll be joining John Hagee's congregation in the not too distant future. You're still a young and strong, you have plenty of time to go and fight for Israel and your Zionist puppet masters in the EU.

They're as stingy with their shekels as report has it.
Actually Jews spread that wealth around pretty good to get what they want. You must not be holding up your end slacker.

Do your sheiks pay you any better
Imam's actually. I'm partial to the shia's as far as pedo prophet's religion is concerned. Sunni's are like the bible (koran)-thumping fundies of Islam. total nutcases.

did Putin loan you to them or do you suck up to them free of charge?
Putin's money's no good these days. For now. might have to go with bit coin soon.

Europeans. We already had our fair share of immigrants.
Well who's fault is that?

Here's a hint; Not Putin or the muzzies.
 

Michael1950

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Hmmmm  ---- I suppose "judge not lest ye also be judged" has no meaning in your heart. But this is judgemental on my part I suppose. To tell you the unvarnished truth I am simply heartsick at the rancor and the attempts at "one-upmanship". Learning and intelligence are wonderful virtues but are nothing compared to love.

"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another even as I have loved you. By this will all know you are my disciples, that you have love for one another".

Glory to the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit, now and forever. Amen. Amen. Amen.
 

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Michael1950 said:
Hmmmm  ---- I suppose "judge not lest ye also be judged" has no meaning in your heart. But this is judgemental on my part I suppose. To tell you the unvarnished truth I am simply heartsick at the rancor and the attempts at "one-upmanship". Learning and intelligence are wonderful virtues but are nothing compared to love
Don't get your knickers in a twist because Charles and I are having a friendly banter.
 

Charles Martel

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Cyrillic said:
Michael1950 said:
Hmmmm  ---- I suppose "judge not lest ye also be judged" has no meaning in your heart. But this is judgemental on my part I suppose. To tell you the unvarnished truth I am simply heartsick at the rancor and the attempts at "one-upmanship". Learning and intelligence are wonderful virtues but are nothing compared to love
Don't get your knickers in a twist because Charles and I are having a friendly banter.
He's a newbie, we're just smacking the ball around here.

He better stay out of politics. ;D
 

LenInSebastopol

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Charles Martel said:
Currently Europe does not really want a "hammer" to deal with those Semitic and African peoples there now, as they are still suffering from the embarrassment and shame of WWII
Semites and Africans are still suffering from WWII? That's news to me. Unless you mean the Western allies, because they're about to get a taste of shame and embarrassment themselves if they keep poking that Russian bear in the east.

The Hammer stopped the advancement into Europe as the Saracens barely were in the Aquitaine and couldn't really capture to hold the city although I am sure one could "proudly" say they were in Europe,
Yes, and if it wasn't for the success at the Battle of Tours, Europe would've been effectively Moslem today. there is no debate about this.

as they had overrun Spain for better than 700 years.
And as they were effectively disapatched by Catholics out of "Cordoba" for good. Catholics seem to have the an answer for Islam, well, historically they once did. Until now where the pope "lubs" everybody. Even the koran.

All else is opinion, speculation and idle chatter for the most part.
Well, it is at least YOUR opinion.
I see the good nuns did not teach you to read well, as the embaressment by the Europeans after WWII is not for the Semites and Africans now occupying that land, it is for themselves for allowing Adolph and friends to do their thingy.
As for shame from The Bear, it is simply US not doing what is right at this time, but no politics here. We will meet with a better decorum in another forum regarding such.
The Tours Battle does have another POV but that could be chalked up to the liberal zeitgeist we find ourselves immersed in. Again, I look for clarification in another forum, soon.
As to the current Pope, put nothing past him as he is and always will be a Jesuit. As with you, I know their training well as I still suffer their joys.
You lose on the "opinion" portion. All of history, ALL, are opinions with the previous Exception mentioned previously. Facts are another issue, kind of like chemistry: all the same stuff, just re-arrainged in different manners. Even then, folks dispute facts. Funny world, this.
 

hecma925

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"Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached."

-Emperor Manuel II Paleologus
 

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I bought new bath towels 2 days ago. And a bathroom rug-mat. They looked nice in the store. Kmart ftw! Slate blue they were identified as. I like this. They were a greyish-blue. Greyish-blue is my favorite color. Like this only a tad bit darker:
(warning: your obsolete computer hardwares or malfunctioning eyeballs probably prevent you from seeing the beauty that I do). Like I was saying, cool. So I get them home and put them in the bathroom on the back of the commode for them to acclimate for a week before throwing them into the action. Already I much lament my purchase. They look merely navy blue now. So ordinary, so banal! I could have got the lightish green ones, but they reminded me of the greenish look of my grandmother's bathroom. Such a horrible bathroom. Yes, yes, it was spacious enough--a good 35-40 sq. ft.--but it had no shower, it had strange tiles, the scale was right in front of you when you did anything--always watching, and my goodness, the sickening, light green... nightmarish stuff. So I bought the blue, which is my favorite color. Only now it's navy blue, which, had I known it would be this way, I just would have bought black and been done with it. Should I return them? I cut the tags off, but I haven't used them yet. Maybe they'll lighten in color in the wash? I don't know. Anyway, is this the right thread for this? I hope I haven't interrupted an important conversation!
 

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All that I truly know is that Islam, at best, is pure heresy. Islam, at it's worst, is a complete abomination of Jesus' message to love everyone - even those who hate and persecute His disciples. This is what I see - radical Islam hating everyone (even themselves). How can any group be more diametrically opposed to the Christ than radical Islamic adherents? Even atheists are not as vulgar.

Glory to the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit, now and forever. Amen. Amen. Amen.
 

Gebre Menfes Kidus

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I visited a Masjid for about a year during my years in between Protestantism and my journey to Orthodoxy. (I’m not sure, BTW, what the technical difference between a Masjid and a Mosque is.) But I befriended many Muslims there and found them to be very devout, peace loving people who shared many of the same cultural and moral concerns as Christians. I did not get the sense that this Muslim community was “liberal,” or “moderate.” They were very serious about their faith, and yet they were equally serious about condemning terrorism. The community was comprised of African Americans and Muslims of Middle Eastern descent. The women were an active and vocal part of the community, and yet they were modest, humble, and did not seem to feel oppressed in any way. The Imam was African American. This was a Sunni Muslim community, not the NOI. There was one occasion when a visiting Imam from Egypt came to speak. Before he began, he commanded all the women to be moved to a separate room. The women always sat and prayed behind the men, and they were fine with that. But when this Egyptian Imam commanded them to go to another room, a few women  protested. But he refused to speak until they left. So they just got up and left the Masjid completely. That was interesting, to say the least. The men seemed to accept the situation, as this Egyptian Imam was considered a high authority on Islam.

I read the Qur’an a few times. I thought that for the most part it was full of good practical and spiritual wisdom. However, as a Christian, I found the heretical parts quite disturbing. I tried hard to reconcile Islam with Christianity, but there were just too many verses in the Qur’an that blatantly contradicted and undermined true Christian doctrine. And then there were the violent verses. Unlike the Bible, where the Old Testament is fulfilled and clarified by the New Testament, the Qur’an has no such delineation. The violent verses cannot be dismissed contextually or explained away as allegorical. They are an inherent part of Islam. No way around that. It always struck me as odd that Islamic prayers and Muslim greetings are always centered on peace and the mercy of Allah, but when it comes to infidels there is no peace and no mercy. Quite different from what Jesus says about loving our enemies and blessing those that persecute us. Of course, most Christians embrace the philosophy of the sword as much as Muslims do, which is unfortunate.

I can definitely see the appeal of Islam. It’s theology is much simpler than Christian theology. The Qur’an is a much shorter scriptural text than the Bible, and much easier to understand. There is less doctrinal division amongst Muslims, although the divisions that do exist are quite profound. There is an emphasis on the universality of human brotherhood that is very appealing to those who have suffered from the evils of racism. When you walk into a Christian Church for the first time, you never know what you will find. But Muslims can enter a Mosque or Masjid anywhere in the world for Friday prayer, and they will be welcomed regardless of race or nationality. And they will know how to pray and what to expect. The simplicity of it all is very attractive to people who believe in God and simply want to worship in peace with their fellow man. And there is a logical consistency to Islamic theology that makes it quite difficult for a Muslim to reject the Islamic view of God in order to embrace the Mysteries of Orthodox Christianity, such as the Eucharist and the Holy Trinity.

Recently I ran into some old Muslim friends from the Masjid. I told them that I had been baptized into the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, but that the important thing is that we all comprise one humanity created by One God. They smiled and nodded their heads and said they were happy for me. There are many good Muslims in the world.

That is my limited experience with Islam.

Selam
 

xOrthodox4Christx

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Right, the facts Len. Let's stick to the facts, never mind my "anger issues". What you call "anger" is my passion for setting the record straight over this ridiculous notion that "Europeans" are responsible for all the evils of the world and many times through the vehicle of the Roman Catholic Church. A totally bogus invention of the radical Left.
LOL! The Left just invented the mass genocide of Latin Americans, the colonialization of Indochina and Africa and the predominantly Catholic support of Fascism during the 20th century. Yeah, right...  ::)

Anyway, if it wasn't the Muzzies or the Jooz it must of course be the Leftz!
 

xOrthodox4Christx

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Michael1950 said:
All that I truly know is that Islam, at best, is pure heresy. Islam, at it's worst, is a complete abomination of Jesus' message to love everyone - even those who hate and persecute His disciples. This is what I see - radical Islam hating everyone (even themselves). How can any group be more diametrically opposed to the Christ than radical Islamic adherents? Even atheists are not as vulgar.

Glory to the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit, now and forever. Amen. Amen. Amen.
Unfortunately for you, many Orthodox people still remember this guy...

 

xOrthodox4Christx

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Gebre Menfes Kidus said:
I visited a Masjid for about a year during my years in between Protestantism and my journey to Orthodoxy. (I’m not sure, BTW, what the technical difference between a Masjid and a Mosque is.)
Mosque is a latinization, Masjid is the Arabic.
 

Gebre Menfes Kidus

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xOrthodox4Christx said:
Gebre Menfes Kidus said:
I visited a Masjid for about a year during my years in between Protestantism and my journey to Orthodoxy. (I’m not sure, BTW, what the technical difference between a Masjid and a Mosque is.)
Mosque is a latinization, Masjid is the Arabic.
OK, thanks!


Selam
 

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xOrthodox4Christx said:
Michael1950 said:
All that I truly know is that Islam, at best, is pure heresy. Islam, at it's worst, is a complete abomination of Jesus' message to love everyone - even those who hate and persecute His disciples. This is what I see - radical Islam hating everyone (even themselves). How can any group be more diametrically opposed to the Christ than radical Islamic adherents? Even atheists are not as vulgar.

Glory to the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit, now and forever. Amen. Amen. Amen.
Unfortunately for you, many Orthodox people still remember this guy...  You are correct - the Stalinist purges were indeed vulgar beyond belief. Not having lived in the Soviet Union is no excuse for me - I should have remembered. It is interesting to note that Stalin was raised in a strict Orthodox home (I believe his father was a Priest??) and that when Hitler had him on the ropes in 41-42 he reopened many Orthodox churches and turned to the Church for help. Of course, once the danger had passed, he relapsed into his former ways.
Thanks for reminding me.

Glory to the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit, now and forever. Amen. Amen. Amen.

 

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Just a further musing on my part as to Islam.

We must, as Orthodox Christians, reject and resist heresy in any form. This, of course, means rejecting Islam in all of it's forms and vagaries.

But there is a caveat :
                                  "Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And
                                    if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you."
                                                                                                                                              Nietzsche

Glory to the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit, now and forever. Amen. Amen. Amen.
 

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Michael1950 said:
All that I truly know is that Islam, at best, is pure heresy. Islam, at it's worst, is a complete abomination of Jesus' message to love everyone - even those who hate and persecute His disciples. This is what I see - radical Islam hating everyone (even themselves). How can any group be more diametrically opposed to the Christ than radical Islamic adherents? Even atheists are not as vulgar.

Glory to the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit, now and forever. Amen. Amen. Amen.
Why do all Orthodox insist on lumping all Muslims and all Atheists into monolithic blocks?

Personally I blame all White people for making the internet possible.
 

Porter ODoran

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India's probably responsible for more international internet infrastructure than anybody else.
 

xOrthodox4Christx

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Volnutt said:
Michael1950 said:
All that I truly know is that Islam, at best, is pure heresy. Islam, at it's worst, is a complete abomination of Jesus' message to love everyone - even those who hate and persecute His disciples. This is what I see - radical Islam hating everyone (even themselves). How can any group be more diametrically opposed to the Christ than radical Islamic adherents? Even atheists are not as vulgar.

Glory to the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit, now and forever. Amen. Amen. Amen.
Why do all Orthodox insist on lumping all Muslims and all Atheists into monolithic blocks?

Personally I blame all White people for making the internet possible.
I don't think he's lumping all Muslims into monolithic blocks, you could make the case for atheists, since there are many "types" of and reasons for unbelief. Islam is Islam. What Muslims are is irrelevant. Islam was made up by some mastermind who knew he could fool a whole lot of people with borrowed stories from Christian apocryphal sources, and the Jewish Talmud and then incorporate his new antichrist "message" into them unscrupulously. This same mastermind incorporated liturgical worship, architecture etc. from Zoroastrian, Orthodox and Jewish sources the same way, and presented it as a completely new religious faith.

It's such an obvious fraud, like Mormonism, but he fooled a great portion of mankind. As Michael mentioned, many people hypothesize that Waraqa ibn Nufayl or a monk named Bahira were heretics and inspired Muhammad to do all of this... Assuming they were historical characters, which is an entirely different story altogether. Islamic tradition, which a good portion of Islam is based upon, and gives us the details of "Muhammad's" life, is only based upon 1%* of the "authentic" sahih narrations gathered by their Muhaddiths a century or so after he supposedly lived, even longer for Shi'ites, and they are simply hearsay filled with endless contradictions.

Anyway, there you go.

* "It is said that al-Bukhari [the most learned and trustworthy Muhaddith] collected over 300,000 hadith and included only 2,602 traditions (i.e., <1%) in his Sahih." (Wikipedia)
 

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xOrthodox4Christx said:
Volnutt said:
Michael1950 said:
All that I truly know is that Islam, at best, is pure heresy. Islam, at it's worst, is a complete abomination of Jesus' message to love everyone - even those who hate and persecute His disciples. This is what I see - radical Islam hating everyone (even themselves). How can any group be more diametrically opposed to the Christ than radical Islamic adherents? Even atheists are not as vulgar.

Glory to the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit, now and forever. Amen. Amen. Amen.
Why do all Orthodox insist on lumping all Muslims and all Atheists into monolithic blocks?

Personally I blame all White people for making the internet possible.
I don't think he's lumping all Muslims into monolithic blocks, you could make the case for atheists, since there are many "types" of and reasons for unbelief. Islam is Islam. What Muslims are is irrelevant. Islam was made up by some mastermind who knew he could fool a whole lot of people with borrowed stories from Christian apocryphal sources, and the Jewish Talmud and then incorporate his new antichrist "message" into them unscrupulously. This same mastermind incorporated liturgical worship, architecture etc. from Zoroastrian, Orthodox and Jewish sources the same way, and presented it as a completely new religious faith.

It's such an obvious fraud, like Mormonism, but he fooled a great portion of mankind. As Michael mentioned, many people hypothesize that Waraqa ibn Nufayl or a monk named Bahira were heretics and inspired Muhammad to do all of this... Assuming they were historical characters, which is an entirely different story altogether. Islamic tradition, which a good portion of Islam is based upon, and gives us the details of "Muhammad's" life, is only based upon 1%* of the "authentic" sahih narrations gathered by their Muhaddiths a century or so after he supposedly lived, even longer for Shi'ites, and they are simply hearsay filled with endless contradictions.

Anyway, there you go.

* "It is said that al-Bukhari [the most learned and trustworthy Muhaddith] collected over 300,000 hadith and included only 2,602 traditions (i.e., <1%) in his Sahih." (Wikipedia)
I guess.

My apologizes, Michael.
 

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As a woman, I found Islam very attractive for a time. But the Quran is quite a dull, dry book, and the references to Christian belief in it and in the hadith are garbled and mistaken. I found externals like Hijab quite attractive, but couldn't get past the odd regurgitation of biblical stories in the writings. The final nail in the coffin for me was the discovery that if I took the Shahada, my marriage had a shelf-life of three months if my husband didn't convert also, or I would have to divorce him. Kind of took the shine off.
 

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Eruvande said:
As a woman, I found Islam very attractive for a time. But the Quran is quite a dull, dry book, and the references to Christian belief in it and in the hadith are garbled and mistaken. I found externals like Hijab quite attractive, but couldn't get past the odd regurgitation of biblical stories in the writings. The final nail in the coffin for me was the discovery that if I took the Shahada, my marriage had a shelf-life of three months if my husband didn't convert also, or I would have to divorce him. Kind of took the shine off.
Most people are attractd to the externals in whatever they do (whatever external means). Hang around here and see what people argue and celebrate the most about odoxy.

To the whole divorce thing, that would not be the case for every mixed marriage I know of. As with most things as complex as religion your mileage may vary.
 

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The deep internal truths of Orthodoxy are largely contained in the very externals themselves, that is, the liturgical services.  Lamentably though most parishes do not and cannot celebrate the Divine Office in its entirety, but I think finding one that celebrates Saturday night services is a good starting point.  Within Sufi Islam, the internals are mystical teachings controlled by the Pirs or Sheikhs whereas within Orthodox Christianity and for that matter Roman Catholicosm and Anglicanism the liturgy itself, and the Eucharist at that, represents the sublime summit of religious truth and beauty, and the vast corpus of wisdom literature we have in which other religions bury their occult teachings all point to this central liturgical mystery.

Now Orthodox Sunni Islam as far as Imcan tell rather lacks internals; it's not deep.  Mystics are viewed with suspicion; Sufis are typically outcasts.  There is no real theological depth below the layers of required observances; the primary consolation is the sense of unity this provides.  But this model seems to collapse on itself a bit im the form of fundamentalism, with ISIL apparently wanting to blow up the Kaaba.

Regarding the Quran itself I found it to be rather interesting as false scriptures go; the repeated commands "Say" or "Read" suggest it started out as the result of a genuine encounter with a demon imitating St. Gabriel.  There are multiple substrates to the text but I am entirely convinced it's production stemmed from an initial occult experience with later self-delusional attempts to build on this demonic core a sort of regurgitation of Judeo Christian lore with Muhammed doubtless encountered on his travels, with a distinctly heretical bent.  It's much more readable than say, The Book of Mormon, in that a distinctive style came naturally to Muhammed whereas in the case of Joseph Smith regardless of the reality of his experiences an extremely literary substrate from the KJV is manifestly apparent; I would attribute this in part to cultural differences, with Muhammed being an illiterate and poetically gifted recipient of oral tradition.
 

orthonorm

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Wgw,

In 24 words or less, what is the difference between and internal and external. Or use your typical 2400 words, if you can make a cogent division, you will have given me the skeleton key to problems which haunt your typical Aglo-American philosopher.
 

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I ran into a young Nation of Islam minister in the parish jail the other day; didn't realize he was Nation until I complemented him on his sharp look and he said it was for his religion. We had to go to the same place in the courthouse after the jail, so we ended up walking the hall together and talking in broad strokes about our religion, at his prompting. Like me, he was a former Baptist.

He was the politest and most respectful prison minister I have ever met, bar none. While it does nothing to actually commend his religion to me, I bet he ends up converting half the jailhouse. It's the same reason people convert to Mormonism.
 

Asteriktos

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Agabus said:
...in the parish jail
For a second it didn't register that some areas use 'parish' in a secular way... :laugh:
 

Agabus

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Jonathan Gress said:
Justin Kissel said:
Agabus said:
...in the parish jail
For a second it didn't register that some areas use 'parish' in a secular way... :laugh:
I'm guessing Louisiana?
Correct.

Mea culpa. I usually make it a point to say "county."
 

wgw

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orthonorm said:
Wgw,

In 24 words or less, what is the difference between and internal and external. Or use your typical 2400 words, if you can make a cogent division, you will have given me the skeleton key to problems which haunt your typical Aglo-American philosopher.
The superficial aspects of a faith are those readily discernible from public information or peripheral involvement, and are thus in my view externals, whereas the internal aspects of a faith can be discerned only from inside.  In mystery religions the onion has many layers although one can usually surmise the shape of the inner layers from the outer layers.

But in the Catholic faith, by that, I mean Orthodoxy and also those forms of Christianity which most closely resemble it, I feel like all the great mystical thinkers point at what has become the most visible and well known aspect of liturgical churches, namely the Sacraments and the liturgy, most especially the Eucharist.  Now this used to be a mystery hidden from the outside world well into the fifth century at least, but the cat is out of the bag.  So all the Mystics that would ordinarily point in now point out.  Which I am rather happy about actually; I think it's wonderful and the will of God that the Eucharist became public knowledge and Christianity ceased to be a mystery religion.  Because to me Jesus, the God Man, is beyond everything else the Person whose nature it is to turn things inside out, thus reverting creation to her primordial splendour.

I apologize if that went a but over 24 words but the main answer in the first paragraph did not go over by that much, and I think even with this apology I'm well short of 2,400.  I also want to thank you for asking me that question, it benefitted me.  :)
 

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Agabus said:
I ran into a young Nation of Islam minister in the parish jail the other day; didn't realize he was Nation until I complemented him on his sharp look and he said it was for his religion. We had to go to the same place in the courthouse after the jail, so we ended up walking the hall together and talking in broad strokes about our religion, at his prompting. Like me, he was a former Baptist.

He was the politest and most respectful prison minister I have ever met, bar none. While it does nothing to actually commend his religion to me, I bet he ends up converting half the jailhouse. It's the same reason people convert to Mormonism.
NOI is good for black people.

Best thing ever? When the NOI started sending their folks through Scientology. My two favorite insane religions mixed. It was and remains beautiful.

Got into a heated argument one day on the bus with one of their "ministers". He knew less about his religion than I did and never had encounter a white person who didn't give a whit about confronting him on his nonsense in the middle of 50 blacks.

But overall I think the NOI is good, Sunni is better based on living as a racial minority for quite a bit of time in my life.
 

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wgw said:
orthonorm said:
Wgw,

In 24 words or less, what is the difference between and internal and external. Or use your typical 2400 words, if you can make a cogent division, you will have given me the skeleton key to problems which haunt your typical Aglo-American philosopher.
The superficial aspects of a faith are those readily discernible from public information or peripheral involvement, and are thus in my view externals, whereas the internal aspects of a faith can be discerned only from inside.  In mystery religions the onion has many layers although one can usually surmise the shape of the inner layers from the outer layers.

But in the Catholic faith, by that, I mean Orthodoxy and also those forms of Christianity which most closely resemble it, I feel like all the great mystical thinkers point at what has become the most visible and well known aspect of liturgical churches, namely the Sacraments and the liturgy, most especially the Eucharist.  Now this used to be a mystery hidden from the outside world well into the fifth century at least, but the cat is out of the bag.  So all the Mystics that would ordinarily point in now point out.  Which I am rather happy about actually; I think it's wonderful and the will of God that the Eucharist became public knowledge and Christianity ceased to be a mystery religion.  Because to me Jesus, the God Man, is beyond everything else the Person whose nature it is to turn things inside out, thus reverting creation to her primordial splendour.

I apologize if that went a but over 24 words but the main answer in the first paragraph did not go over by that much, and I think even with this apology I'm well short of 2,400.  I also want to thank you for asking me that question, it benefitted me.  :)
In however many words, you did remain incoherent.

If by internal you are saying whatever is "mysterious" then I must side with Spinoza on this one, mysteries are just things we know that either we refuse or can't put into words.

Mystery is a never a solution but always a symptom.

It's the institutional analog to "emotions".
 
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