More Young People Are Moving Away From Religion, But Why?

dzheremi

Protokentarchos
Joined
Jan 18, 2010
Messages
4,417
Reaction score
0
Points
0
There are certain fashions of thought, as others have pointed out on this website in relation to other phenomena (e.g., the rise of Islam in the West). I think it would be naive to discount that entirely when it comes to the rise in agnosticism. It seems, bizarrely, that many people think it more "open-minded" to not belong to any religion and just be a good person, because after all with so many religions (and even so many different forms of what the religiously-illiterate popular media call the same religion, such that tambourine-shaking, snake-handling Baptists and Orthodox Christians seem to be presented as though they are on equal footing), it's a bit arrogant -- so the claim goes -- to say that one is right and the others can't possibly be. So, in the interest of being as tolerant and open-minded as possible, many people find it easier to give up any strong conviction in favor of bland pietism and the "social gospel".

This isn't just a young person's game, either. My grandmother, who is otherwise very pleasant, reacted quite negatively to my renewed/maturing interest in religion in my early 20s, saying that she couldn't understand why anyone would bother with it when "all they do is tell you what to do". An understandable idea, perhaps, for someone who knows only Western Christianity (her family was Greenlandic Danish, so I'm assuming there were some Lutherans in there at some point), but that's all the more reason we should be working to bring such people (and there are millions upon millions here in the West) to Orthodoxy...  ;)
 

AveChriste11

High Elder
Joined
Mar 21, 2011
Messages
523
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
34
Location
Memphis, TN
dzheremi said:
There are certain fashions of thought, as others have pointed out on this website in relation to other phenomena (e.g., the rise of Islam in the West). I think it would be naive to discount that entirely when it comes to the rise in agnosticism. It seems, bizarrely, that many people think it more "open-minded" to not belong to any religion and just be a good person, because after all with so many religions (and even so many different forms of what the religiously-illiterate popular media call the same religion, such that tambourine-shaking, snake-handling Baptists and Orthodox Christians seem to be presented as though they are on equal footing), it's a bit arrogant -- so the claim goes -- to say that one is right and the others can't possibly be. So, in the interest of being as tolerant and open-minded as possible, many people find it easier to give up any strong conviction in favor of bland pietism and the "social gospel".

This isn't just a young person's game, either. My grandmother, who is otherwise very pleasant, reacted quite negatively to my renewed/maturing interest in religion in my early 20s, saying that she couldn't understand why anyone would bother with it when "all they do is tell you what to do". An understandable idea, perhaps, for someone who knows only Western Christianity (her family was Greenlandic Danish, so I'm assuming there were some Lutherans in there at some point), but that's all the more reason we should be working to bring such people (and there are millions upon millions here in the West) to Orthodoxy...  ;)
I find it more difficult to keep ourselves "Orthodox enough" after we've found it...  as opposed to "bringing others into the fold"
 

Cavaradossi

Archon
Joined
Jun 23, 2011
Messages
2,034
Reaction score
0
Points
36
JamesR said:
Why can't you people just understand that in order for more people to believe in God, you need to try to make Him appealing to people with a rationalist mindset? This is why no one in the educated first world is accepting Him anymore.
Because the rationalist mindset is false and inimical to Christianity.
 

JamesR

Taxiarches
Joined
Nov 4, 2011
Messages
6,924
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
24
Location
The Underground
Cavaradossi said:
JamesR said:
Why can't you people just understand that in order for more people to believe in God, you need to try to make Him appealing to people with a rationalist mindset? This is why no one in the educated first world is accepting Him anymore.
Because the rationalist mindset is false and inimical to Christianity.
Explain why. No religion as far as I know has been able to explain why even though I have been perfectly open to receiving the answer. This is the problem; rationalism is the only heresy that the Church has not refuted yet.
 

AveChriste11

High Elder
Joined
Mar 21, 2011
Messages
523
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
34
Location
Memphis, TN
JamesR said:
Cavaradossi said:
JamesR said:
Why can't you people just understand that in order for more people to believe in God, you need to try to make Him appealing to people with a rationalist mindset? This is why no one in the educated first world is accepting Him anymore.
Because the rationalist mindset is false and inimical to Christianity.
Explain why. No religion as far as I know has been able to explain why even though I have been perfectly open to receiving the answer. This is the problem; rationalism is the only heresy that the Church has not refuted yet.
Easy, if you were too rational you would end up leaving the faith.  As it is, most people don't think things through and Orthodoxy chooses to accept Mystery as a Holy thing.  Preferring the experience of perceiving the "uncreated" Light rather than objectivity. 
 

Cyrillic

Toumarches
Joined
Jun 9, 2012
Messages
13,710
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
25
Location
Netherlands
JamesR said:
Explain why. No religion as far as I know has been able to explain why even though I have been perfectly open to receiving the answer. This is the problem; rationalism is the only heresy that the Church has not refuted yet.
How would you rationally explain the Trinity?
 

BTRAKAS

Archon
Site Supporter
Joined
Nov 11, 2007
Messages
3,159
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
67
Location
North Royalton, Ohio
Indiscriminate sex since the '70's is producing lots of illegitimate kids who are being raised by single parents who don't have the time or inclination for religion in an American society that since 1962 (+/-), when the illustrios Supreme Court took prayer out of the schools, and triggered the balance of American society to migrate to a belief that America requires "separation of church and state," even though the Constitution only precludes the state from establishing a state church/religion, and so impedes mention of God and the Judeo-Christian based morality that helped make American society great, is producing a society of Godless hedonists.

I'm not sure how this societal disease has likewise infected Europe, I suspect mimicking America and adoption of secular socialism could be at work.


P.S. No offense intended toward parents who are victims that has forced them into being single parents who dedicate themselves to properly raise their children in what is becoming a Godless society.
 

katherineofdixie

Protokentarchos
Joined
Jul 7, 2009
Messages
3,719
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
the South, thanks be to God
Ashman618 said:
i remember being about 8-10 years old and telling my grandparents i was going to mass (I was raised Roman catholic) and instead i would just sit in a park under a pine tree day dreaming or what not, I cant even remember at this point.  I think i was simply just bored, how could God compare to TV and super Nintendo right? From there it doesn't take much to graduate to short uniform skirts marijuana and bee,r no?  Mix that with some internet porn and a nice salary and i'm my own little god, who needs Jesus Christ? sin? whats sin? how could i possibly miss the mark when i'm having such a great time!!!! Rules? obedience? temperance? chastity? don't you know who I AM!        
One of the biggest "aha!" moments in my life (and when I began to get serious about faith) was when a Lutheran pastor told me that sin wasn't "relevant" anymore. (Wait, what?) Because I had seen and experienced the misery and wreckage of sin in my own life, I knew that sin was indeed relevant, dangerous and real.
 

ialmisry

Strategos
Joined
Aug 17, 2007
Messages
41,794
Reaction score
0
Points
36
Location
Chicago
JamesR said:
Cavaradossi said:
JamesR said:
Why can't you people just understand that in order for more people to believe in God, you need to try to make Him appealing to people with a rationalist mindset? This is why no one in the educated first world is accepting Him anymore.
Because the rationalist mindset is false and inimical to Christianity.
Explain why. No religion as far as I know has been able to explain why even though I have been perfectly open to receiving the answer. This is the problem; rationalism is the only heresy that the Church has not refuted yet.
The Church doesn't have to.  Rationalism refutes itself.


The big problems in the Vatican, and its Protestant and "Enlightened" spawn, stem from Scholasticism's embrace of rationalism.
 

Ashman618

High Elder
Joined
Sep 7, 2012
Messages
510
Reaction score
0
Points
0
ialmisry said:
JamesR said:
Cavaradossi said:
JamesR said:
Why can't you people just understand that in order for more people to believe in God, you need to try to make Him appealing to people with a rationalist mindset? This is why no one in the educated first world is accepting Him anymore.
Because the rationalist mindset is false and inimical to Christianity.
Explain why. No religion as far as I know has been able to explain why even though I have been perfectly open to receiving the answer. This is the problem; rationalism is the only heresy that the Church has not refuted yet.
The Church doesn't have to.  Rationalism refutes itself.


The big problems in the Vatican, and its Protestant and "Enlightened" spawn, stem from Scholasticism's embrace of rationalism.
Woo woo! Hold on now come on let's be rational and think about this  :p
 

katherineofdixie

Protokentarchos
Joined
Jul 7, 2009
Messages
3,719
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
the South, thanks be to God
ialmisry said:
JamesR said:
Cavaradossi said:
JamesR said:
Why can't you people just understand that in order for more people to believe in God, you need to try to make Him appealing to people with a rationalist mindset? This is why no one in the educated first world is accepting Him anymore.
Because the rationalist mindset is false and inimical to Christianity.
Explain why. No religion as far as I know has been able to explain why even though I have been perfectly open to receiving the answer. This is the problem; rationalism is the only heresy that the Church has not refuted yet.
The Church doesn't have to.  Rationalism refutes itself.


The big problems in the Vatican, and its Protestant and "Enlightened" spawn, stem from Scholasticism's embrace of rationalism.
Yikes!
 

orthonorm

Hoplitarches
Joined
Jul 24, 2010
Messages
17,715
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Cyrillic said:
Also they're raised in a liberal, relativistic spirit of "There's no truth, all opinions are valid".
1,000,000,000s of youtube comments say you are wrong.
 

Justin Kolodziej

OC.Net Guru
Joined
Oct 4, 2012
Messages
1,552
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
41
ialmisry said:
JamesR said:
Cavaradossi said:
JamesR said:
Why can't you people just understand that in order for more people to believe in God, you need to try to make Him appealing to people with a rationalist mindset? This is why no one in the educated first world is accepting Him anymore.
Because the rationalist mindset is false and inimical to Christianity.
Explain why. No religion as far as I know has been able to explain why even though I have been perfectly open to receiving the answer. This is the problem; rationalism is the only heresy that the Church has not refuted yet.
The Church doesn't have to.  Rationalism refutes itself.


The big problems in the Vatican, and its Protestant and "Enlightened" spawn, stem from Scholasticism's embrace of rationalism.
Exactly what is wrong with starting with revelation and using logic to deduce additional spiritual truths?  ???
 

Justin Kolodziej

OC.Net Guru
Joined
Oct 4, 2012
Messages
1,552
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
41
Cyrillic said:
Simple. Most of them can't imagine that something could limit their behavior. Also they're raised in a liberal, relativistic spirit of "There's no truth, all opinions are valid".
Well starting somewhere so illogical, no wonder. They should start with "There is no truth except that contained in this sentence"  :p
 

dzheremi

Protokentarchos
Joined
Jan 18, 2010
Messages
4,417
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Justin Kolodziej said:
Exactly what is wrong with starting with revelation and using logic to deduce additional spiritual truths?  ???
Ask Arius and Nestorius.

Holy scripture has a thing or two to say about this idea, too, like in 1 Corinthians 3:18-19:

Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you seems to be wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, “He catches the wise in their own craftiness”
 

Iconodule

Hoplitarches
Joined
Jan 2, 2010
Messages
16,485
Reaction score
0
Points
36
Age
38
Location
PA, USA
I think one key reason (not the only one) is the complete dominance nowadays of empirical sciences as the foundation of truth, leaving very little room or freedom for philosophical discourse, and a corresponding inability of people raised in this mindset to comprehend myths or to grapple intelligently with the non-material aspects of life.

It hasn't helped that the various religions have generally not put forward a coherent or forceful counter-narrative, and in many cases have simply bowed to the status quo.
 

Cyrillic

Toumarches
Joined
Jun 9, 2012
Messages
13,710
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
25
Location
Netherlands
dzheremi said:
Holy scripture has a thing or two to say about this idea, too, like in 1 Corinthians 3:18-19:

Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you seems to be wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, “He catches the wise in their own craftiness”
OK. Now it's time for a quote war:

Men of Athens! I see that in every way you are very religious. For as I walked around and looked carefully at your objects of worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: TO AN UNKNOWN GOD. Now what you worship as something unknown I am going to proclaim to you...From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live. God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us. (Acts 17:22-28)
We all know how the Athenians tried to find God. Also, the "Men of Athens" bit sounds very familiar. It were one of the first words in Plato's Apology.
 

dzheremi

Protokentarchos
Joined
Jan 18, 2010
Messages
4,417
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Hahaha. I'm not going to get into a quote war with you (or anybody), Cyrillic. :) Particularly as I don't see how that quote contradicts the quote I provided. It is important to seek God -- the question is how to do it. Do we seek God by our own logic and intellect? I don't think so. Reason/logic can be a tool, of course, put to the proper service of God (e.g., apologetics), but I think it would go too far to say that we should use logic in order to "deduce additional spiritual truths", as the post I was replying to asked. There are no additional spiritual truths to be deduced, anyway. Everything is already with us in the holy Orthodox Church of God.
 
Top