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Muslims in France killed 10 journalists, two cops

Cyrillic

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Charlie Hebdo shooting: At least 12 killed as shots fired at satirical magazine's Paris office

At least 12 people have been killed in a shooting incident at the Paris office of French satirical weekly Charlie Hebdo, police have said. Witnesses and police officials said that multiple gunmen were involved, and that they were seen armed with AK47s and pump action shotguns. According to France's AFP news agency, the men were armed with at least one rocket launcher. A police spokesperson confirmed that the death toll had risen to 12, and that up to 10 others were injured. Five were reported to be in a critical condition. Officials said two police officers were among those killed, and that the other 10 were journalists. Luc Poignard, an official with the French police union official, had earlier confirmed that three officers had been injured and that the attackers had escaped in two vehicles.

Paris has raised its terror alert to the highest setting in the aftermath of the attack, while the gunmen themselves are still reported to be on the run. Video footage posted to social media showed armed gunmen running through the streets of Paris, shooting with automatic weapons and shouting "Allahu Akbar". French President Francois Hollande has travelled to the scene in Paris's 11th arrondissement after what he called the "terrorist attack". Speaking to reporters, he repeated the figure of 11 dead, as well as stating that four of those injured were "between life and death". He said it was the latest in a series of terrorist incidents on French soil, and that the nation was in a state of shock. "We are a country of liberty, and because of that we receive threats," he said.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/charlie-hebdo-shooting-10-killed-as-shots-fired-at-satirical-magazine-headquarters-according-to-reports-9962337.html
The religion of peace is at it again.
 

xOrthodox4Christx

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When I first heard this story, I had no idea it had anything to do with Islam.
 

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xOrthodox4Christx said:
When I first heard this story, I had no idea it had anything to do with Islam.
Even though the media danced around the subject at first, I knew it had to do with Islam.
 

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Charlie Hebdo is not discriminatory in it's satire of all religious and political groups and recently singled out the leader of ISIS in some of its cartoons. 

 

LenInSebastopol

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xOrthodox4Christx said:
When I first heard this story, I had no idea it had anything to do with Islam.
I find interesting a shared "way" in Islam and Orthodoxy.
Both look at their "faiths" not as something to "hold" objectively, isolated or removed, or at best "practiced" in daily life, as the West does, but rather lived day-to-day WITH and IN life, as "it is a way of life and life itself".
Therefore some may, and do, say that "they are not true Muslims" and have others believe that to be true. We know them by their fruits.
(Sorry for my deficiency in words as it about such basic notion I poorly write)

"We have to love our children more than they love death".....seems appropriate.
Lord, have mercy.
 

vamrat

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My controversial statement on the Charlie Hebdo shooting -

The whole mocking religion cartoon stuff sticks in my craw.  People making fun of Jesus ticks me off.  Quite a bit, actually.  If people who did this became victims of spontaneous human combustion I might give in to some spiritually unprofitable glee.  As for causing them harm, I think that would be a greater mockery of Christ than the offending cartoon in the first place.  Christ was no stranger to being mocked and He handled it pretty stoically.  When He comes again (in glory to judge both the quick and the dead)...some people might be feeling a little dumb.

On to making fun of Moslems.  We know what they do when you make cartoons of Mohammed.  Dogs shouldn't be biting people, but if you pull it's tail you might just get bit.  Who is more to blame, the dog or the tail puller?  France as a nation has made some poor decisions.  They have many unassimilated Moslems in their country - by their own allowance.  They have been supporting Islamic terrorism in Syria.

The chickens have come home to roost.  They need to rethink some of their decisions or else accept that this might become a common occurrence. 
 

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I expect I will be "feeling a little dumb", then.  Lord Have Mercy.
 

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vamrat said:
My controversial statement on the Charlie Hebdo shooting -

The whole mocking religion cartoon stuff sticks in my craw.  People making fun of Jesus ticks me off.  Quite a bit, actually.  If people who did this became victims of spontaneous human combustion I might give in to some spiritually unprofitable glee.  As for causing them harm, I think that would be a greater mockery of Christ than the offending cartoon in the first place.  Christ was no stranger to being mocked and He handled it pretty stoically.  When He comes again (in glory to judge both the quick and the dead)...some people might be feeling a little dumb.

On to making fun of Moslems.  We know what they do when you make cartoons of Mohammed.  Dogs shouldn't be biting people, but if you pull it's tail you might just get bit.  Who is more to blame, the dog or the tail puller?  France as a nation has made some poor decisions.  They have many unassimilated Moslems in their country - by their own allowance.  They have been supporting Islamic terrorism in Syria.

The chickens have come home to roost.  They need to rethink some of their decisions or else accept that this might become a common occurrence. 
I feel bad about agreeing with you, but I do. I can't help but thinking, 'what did they think was going to happen in publishing that stuff?'

Don't mess with the bull, or you'll get the horn.
 

LenInSebastopol

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Irony in that Europeans have had recent priors in dealing with Semites in a very brutish manner. I wonder if guilt from that collective experience holds back the outrage at having to live with Muslims their respective regions? Or how long will they play the 'stoic card' until....?

Just saw a Hannity bit with London Muslim cleric who made interesting points.

http://www.mediaite.com/online/muslim-cleric-who-battled-hannity-free-speech-doesnt-extend-to-insulting-prophets-of-allah/
 

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Freedom of speech and expression is a foundation of democratic rights and freedom.  While we may not always agree with the content, that same freedom protects us as well.  The need for retribution feeds those who are insecure in these beliefs.  Remember, Our Savior came to bring life and conquer death, not conquer life and bring death.
 

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vamrat said:
On to making fun of Moslems.  We know what they do when you make cartoons of Mohammed.  Dogs shouldn't be biting people, but if you pull it's tail you might just get bit.  Who is more to blame, the dog or the tail puller?  France as a nation has made some poor decisions.  They have many unassimilated Moslems in their country - by their own allowance.  They have been supporting Islamic terrorism in Syria.

The chickens have come home to roost.  They need to rethink some of their decisions or else accept that this might become a common occurrence. 
Channeling your inner dhimmi? If we fear to be ourselves we've already lost.
 

Charles Martel

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Freedom of speech and expression is a foundation of democratic rights and freedom.
They're are limits to both.

Remember, Our Savior came to bring life and conquer death, not conquer life and bring death.
Bringing life does not include of making "satirical" cartoons of sexual deviancy and sodomy of another cultures revered figures.

When it comes to some of the filth that this "satire" out there is producing, what do you think Jesus would think of it?

And just so you know, this same magazine attacks Christianity and the Church with just as much venom.

Of course, no one takes them to task for that.
 

LenInSebastopol

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There are responsibilities with all freedoms, but limitations must remain few.
When such media dishonor Ours, then "taking to task" is done in a civilized, not barbaric, manner.
My passions too wish to get 'medieval' on those that due harm, and could all to easily, however we have to keep Our Lord, Jesus Christ, at the center of our passions, and not the deeds of others, even though they appeal to our scum nature
 

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vamrat said:
My controversial statement on the Charlie Hebdo shooting -

The whole mocking religion cartoon stuff sticks in my craw.  People making fun of Jesus ticks me off.  Quite a bit, actually.  If people who did this became victims of spontaneous human combustion I might give in to some spiritually unprofitable glee.  As for causing them harm, I think that would be a greater mockery of Christ than the offending cartoon in the first place.  Christ was no stranger to being mocked and He handled it pretty stoically.  When He comes again (in glory to judge both the quick and the dead)...some people might be feeling a little dumb.

On to making fun of Moslems.  We know what they do when you make cartoons of Mohammed.  Dogs shouldn't be biting people, but if you pull it's tail you might just get bit.  Who is more to blame, the dog or the tail puller?  France as a nation has made some poor decisions.  They have many unassimilated Moslems in their country - by their own allowance.  They have been supporting Islamic terrorism in Syria.

The chickens have come home to roost.  They need to rethink some of their decisions or else accept that this might become a common occurrence. 
What are your thoughts about the situation in Britain?  Similar?  I saw a video recently about these "Sharia patrols" in heavily concentrated Moslem neighborhoods.  VERY disturbing.  There was an interview with a blond female reporter with a member of one of these patrols (which was one of the "friendlier" patrols) who said, but we have freedom! And the patrol member said, well what about my freedom to tell you to cover up!  All she could say is, but that's outrageous! (w/o explaining why).  I just bring up this incident/situation as one example.
 

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Charles Martel said:
Freedom of speech and expression is a foundation of democratic rights and freedom.
They're are limits to both.

Remember, Our Savior came to bring life and conquer death, not conquer life and bring death.
Bringing life does not include of making "satirical" cartoons of sexual deviancy and sodomy of another cultures revered figures.

When it comes to some of the filth that this "satire" out there is producing, what do you think Jesus would think of it?

And just so you know, this same magazine attacks Christianity and the Church with just as much venom.

Of course, no one takes then to task for that.
"When it comes to some of the filth that this "satire" out there is producing, what do you think Jesus would think of it?"  Jesus would continue to teach us to pray for those who work against us or speak untruths about us.  He would not instruct us to take another human life because He was offended by someone's speech or expression.  Jesus was also known for his use of parody, satire and parables to teach His message.

A simple read of Matthew 7:5 when Jesus told the audience "take the plank out of your own eye" was His own form of satire to make a point.  There's also the satire of Christ in Matthew 23 when speaking about the Pharisees.  

The apostle Paul was a master of satire when addressing the early Church:
"You are already filled, you have already become rich, you have become kings without us; and indeed, I wish that you had become kings so that we also might reign with you. For, I think, God has exhibited us apostles last of all, as men condemned to death; because we have become a spectacle to the world, both to angels and to men. We are fools for Christ’s sake, but you are prudent in Christ; we are weak, but you are strong; you are distinguished, but we are without honor. To this present hour we are both hungry and thirsty, and are poorly clothed, and are roughly treated, and are homeless; and we toil, working with our own hands; when we are reviled, we bless; when we are persecuted, we endure; when we are slandered, we try to conciliate; we have become as the scum of the world, the dregs of all things, even until now." 1 Corinthians 4:8-13


"And just so you know, this same magazine attacks Christianity and the Church with just as much venom."  Of course it does, as well as speaks out against neo-Nazis and right wing European politicians.

If you remember from past history, simply speaking out against the organized Church or the Pope often resulted in charges of heresy.  I am not saying I agree with the content of the Charlie Hebdo publications.  What I am saying, we all enjoy a freedom of expression.  If we don't defend that basic right, who will defend us when the time comes?
 

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There is a certain Orthodox priest I am friends with on Facebook who is CONSTANTLY making lame excuses for Islam, and telling everyone who doesn't agree with him that they are "ill-informed", and to stop lying about Islam. He then justifies his Benedict Arnold sympathies by appealing to the 10 commandments. Odd, I know. I asked him, in a very respectful way why he isn't a Muslim, and he dodged my question and basically blew me off like I'm some idiot who believes all those "western lies". Proof is in the pudding, and if this isn't the real face of Islam, than will someone please show me what is?
 

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Elisha said:
vamrat said:
My controversial statement on the Charlie Hebdo shooting -

The whole mocking religion cartoon stuff sticks in my craw.  People making fun of Jesus ticks me off.  Quite a bit, actually.  If people who did this became victims of spontaneous human combustion I might give in to some spiritually unprofitable glee.  As for causing them harm, I think that would be a greater mockery of Christ than the offending cartoon in the first place.  Christ was no stranger to being mocked and He handled it pretty stoically.  When He comes again (in glory to judge both the quick and the dead)...some people might be feeling a little dumb.

On to making fun of Moslems.  We know what they do when you make cartoons of Mohammed.  Dogs shouldn't be biting people, but if you pull it's tail you might just get bit.  Who is more to blame, the dog or the tail puller?  France as a nation has made some poor decisions.  They have many unassimilated Moslems in their country - by their own allowance.  They have been supporting Islamic terrorism in Syria.

The chickens have come home to roost.  They need to rethink some of their decisions or else accept that this might become a common occurrence. 
What are your thoughts about the situation in Britain?  Similar?  I saw a video recently about these "Sharia patrols" in heavily concentrated Moslem neighborhoods.  VERY disturbing.  There was an interview with a blond female reporter with a member of one of these patrols (which was one of the "friendlier" patrols) who said, but we have freedom! And the patrol member said, well what about my freedom to tell you to cover up!  All she could say is, but that's outrageous! (w/o explaining why).  I just bring up this incident/situation as one example.
I kind of wish they'd pit the Grenadier Guards against these Sharia patrols. 

Then put all those Rotherham blokes on a prison ship, complete with hole in the bottom.
 

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There are responsibilities with all freedoms, but limitations must remain few.
What then, pray tell.....should they be?

When such media dishonor Ours, then "taking to task" is done in a civilized, not barbaric, manner.
Is anyone suggesting anything else? Anyway, what I'm insinuating is that the very same people who blather on about the "rights" of these satirical writers and cartoonists when it somes to mocking and blaspheming Christ and the Church all of the sudden take a different tone when it comes to offending "the prophet" or the Synagouge in some way. then it's "hate speech".

What I see is a double-standard.

But I also don't believe you have a "right" to go out of your way to mock, blaspheme and infuriate a whole religion for whatever reason because of some concept of the "freedom" to do so at the expense of others. Or yourself in this case.


 

vamrat

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Alpo said:
vamrat said:
On to making fun of Moslems.  We know what they do when you make cartoons of Mohammed.  Dogs shouldn't be biting people, but if you pull it's tail you might just get bit.  Who is more to blame, the dog or the tail puller?  France as a nation has made some poor decisions.  They have many unassimilated Moslems in their country - by their own allowance.  They have been supporting Islamic terrorism in Syria.

The chickens have come home to roost.  They need to rethink some of their decisions or else accept that this might become a common occurrence. 
Channeling your inner dhimmi? If we fear to be ourselves we've already lost.
Not dhimmitude, just common sense.  If you want to have a wasp nest in your living room, for Pete's sake, don't prod it with a stick!  I figured it would be smarter just not to have wasps in the living room, but apparently that is incorrect thinking.
 

Charles Martel

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When it comes to some of the filth that this "satire" out there is producing, what do you think Jesus would think of it?"  Jesus would continue to teach us to pray for those who work against us or speak untruths about us.  He would not instruct us to take another human life because He was offended by someone's speech or expression.  Jesus was also known for his use of parody, satire and parables to teach His message.
Are you actually comparing the Prodical Son to cartoons depicting Mohamed engaging in immoral, sodomic homosexual acts?

If you remember from past history, simply speaking out against the organized Church or the Pope often resulted in charges of heresy.
As was speaking out against Casear for being anything less than divine.

And the martyrs paid the price.


But I do not consider the writers at Charlie Hebdo as "martyrs".

What I am saying, we all enjoy a freedom of expression.
There is a difference between freedom and license.

If we don't defend that basic right, who will defend us when the time comes?
Blapshemy and images of pornographic sordid acts have no rights in my opinion. Especially of anothers sacred beliefs.
 

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As I have read through these posts, I have wondered how many of the people posting are French, lived in France, or even have a basic understanding of French life and culture. As a francophone who has lived in France, I suffer with the French and mourn this tragedy.  When the towers in New York were attacked, the only thing I experienced in Paris was great support for the American people.
I am appalled that anyone would suggest that because the magazine published unfavorable material that somehow the murder of innocents is justified.  Was the murder of Americans justified? Did we not pull the tail and bring that tragedy on ourselves?
You may not agree with what was published but without the freedom to publish we have little freedom to hold on to our beliefs whatever they may be.  What will happen to our Orthodox faith when we will not be allowed to express a belief system that is different from others?
 

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DKLK said:
As I have read through these posts, I have wondered how many of the people posting are French, lived in France, or even have a basic understanding of French life and culture. As a francophone who has lived in France, I suffer with the French and mourn this tragedy.  When the towers in New York were attacked, the only thing I experienced in Paris was great support for the American people.
I am appalled that anyone would suggest that because the magazine published unfavorable material that somehow the murder of innocents is justified.  Was the murder of Americans justified? Did we not pull the tail and bring that tragedy on ourselves?
You may not agree with what was published but without the freedom to publish we have little freedom to hold on to our beliefs whatever they may be.  What will happen to our Orthodox faith when we will not be allowed to express a belief system that is different from others?
As a francophile (admittedly, I need to practice more French like I used to), this makes me very sad.  As an American, our nations' histories have been intertwined for a long time; we should love and care for one another as brothers.  Nous sommes Charlie!
 

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Charles Martel said:
When it comes to some of the filth that this "satire" out there is producing, what do you think Jesus would think of it?"  Jesus would continue to teach us to pray for those who work against us or speak untruths about us.  He would not instruct us to take another human life because He was offended by someone's speech or expression.  Jesus was also known for his use of parody, satire and parables to teach His message.
Are you actually comparing the Prodical Son to cartoons depicting Mohamed engaging in immoral, sodomic homosexual acts?
Muhammad, in real life, actually did something that was a lot worse than that: he consummated his marriage to a 9-year-old girl. (Granted, this sort of behavior was very common among the pagan Bedouins of his time; that doesn't make it right).

A few years ago, a Copt named Nakoula Nakoula made a film that portrayed Muhammad in a similar manner to the Hebdo cartoons. Shortly thereafter there was a series of riots and terrorist attacks that killed over 40 people around the world. Would you also say that Nakoula was to blame for the riots, or would you put the blame where it belongs, on the shoulders of the terrorists who were actually doing the killing?
 

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hecma925 said:
DKLK said:
As I have read through these posts, I have wondered how many of the people posting are French, lived in France, or even have a basic understanding of French life and culture. As a francophone who has lived in France, I suffer with the French and mourn this tragedy.  When the towers in New York were attacked, the only thing I experienced in Paris was great support for the American people.
I am appalled that anyone would suggest that because the magazine published unfavorable material that somehow the murder of innocents is justified.  Was the murder of Americans justified? Did we not pull the tail and bring that tragedy on ourselves?
You may not agree with what was published but without the freedom to publish we have little freedom to hold on to our beliefs whatever they may be.  What will happen to our Orthodox faith when we will not be allowed to express a belief system that is different from others?
As a francophile (admittedly, I need to practice more French like I used to), this makes me very sad.  As an American, our nations' histories have been intertwined for a long time; we should love and care for one another as brothers.  Nous sommes Charlie!
yes love is the higher law
 

Charles Martel

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I am appalled that anyone would suggest that because the magazine published unfavorable material that somehow the murder of innocents is justified.
Innocents? Really? These are the same people who blapshemed Our Lord and the Blessed Mother in provactive images in order to get a rise out of people, apparently they did with the Mohamedens. Most of these people rail against anything others consider sacred and holy. Many are either atheist and irreligious and have a bone to pick with people of faith.

They may be many things, but I hardly call them "innocent". But I'm certainly not justifying their execution if that's what you're implying.

But these are the same people that live and die (literally) on the ol  "Pen is mightier than the sword" adage.

And it looks like the sword won for now.

And everyone is upset, but like Vamrat said, don't kick a hornets nest and complain when you get stung.
 

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Charles Martel said:
I am appalled that anyone would suggest that because the magazine published unfavorable material that somehow the murder of innocents is justified.
Innocents? Really? These are the same people who blapshemed Our Lord and the Blessed Mother in provactive images in order to get a rise out of people, apparently they did with the Mohamedens. Most of these people rail against anything others consider sacred and holy. Many are either atheist and irreligious and have a bone to pick with people of faith.
The first victim of the shooting was Ahmed Merabet, a police officer with no connection to the magazine. Merabet was a Muslim.
 

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Charles Martel said:
Innocents? Really? These are the same people who blapshemed Our Lord and the Blessed Mother in provactive images in order to get a rise out of people, apparently they did with the Mohamedens. Most of these people rail against anything others consider sacred and holy. Many are either atheist and irreligious and have a bone to pick with people of faith.
How many Christians rioted and killed people when they did that?  ???

As soon as their website comes back, I'm buying a subscription.
 

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hecma925 said:
Charles Martel said:
Innocents? Really? These are the same people who blapshemed Our Lord and the Blessed Mother in provactive images in order to get a rise out of people, apparently they did with the Mohamedens. Most of these people rail against anything others consider sacred and holy. Many are either atheist and irreligious and have a bone to pick with people of faith.
How many Christians rioted and killed people when they did that?  ???

As soon as their website comes back, I'm buying a subscription.
I don't think there'll be another issue after the next one, considering how most of their journalists and their editor have been executed.
 

Charles Martel

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Minnesotan said:
Charles Martel said:
When it comes to some of the filth that this "satire" out there is producing, what do you think Jesus would think of it?"  Jesus would continue to teach us to pray for those who work against us or speak untruths about us.  He would not instruct us to take another human life because He was offended by someone's speech or expression.  Jesus was also known for his use of parody, satire and parables to teach His message.
Are you actually comparing the Prodical Son to cartoons depicting Mohamed engaging in immoral, sodomic homosexual acts?
Muhammad, in real life, actually did something that was a lot worse than that: he consummated his marriage to a 9-year-old girl. (Granted, this sort of behavior was very common among the pagan Bedouins of his time; that doesn't make it right).

A few years ago, a Copt named Nakoula Nakoula made a film that portrayed Muhammad in a similar manner to the Hebdo cartoons. Shortly thereafter there was a series of riots and terrorist attacks that killed over 40 people around the world. Would you also say that Nakoula was to blame for the riots, or would you put the blame where it belongs, on the shoulders of the terrorists who were actually doing the killing?
The question is why? Why do they insist on rousing these people up for no other reason to offend them or make a statement about their "freedom" to do so? Why did they make movies like that and all the other ones offending Christianity for no other purpose than to dump all over what other people consider sacred and holy?

Anyway, I don't believe you have the "right" to do anything. You don't have a right to yell fire in a crowded moviehouse.
 

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Cyrillic said:
hecma925 said:
Charles Martel said:
Innocents? Really? These are the same people who blapshemed Our Lord and the Blessed Mother in provactive images in order to get a rise out of people, apparently they did with the Mohamedens. Most of these people rail against anything others consider sacred and holy. Many are either atheist and irreligious and have a bone to pick with people of faith.
How many Christians rioted and killed people when they did that?  ???

As soon as their website comes back, I'm buying a subscription.
I don't think there'll be another issue after the next one, considering how most of their journalists and their editor have been executed.
This source suggests otherwise.
 

Cyrillic

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Charles Martel said:
The question is why? Why do they insist on rousing these people up for no other reason to offend them or make a statement about their "freedom" to do so?
There's more to satire than that. It makes one ponder weighty subjects while at the same time making people laugh.

Charles Martel said:
Anyway, I don't believe you have the "right" to do anything. You don't have a right to yell fire in a crowded moviehouse.
I didn't expect that you would give to jihadis and armed thugs the power to decide the limits of free speech.
 

Charles Martel

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hecma925 said:
Charles Martel said:
Innocents? Really? These are the same people who blapshemed Our Lord and the Blessed Mother in provactive images in order to get a rise out of people, apparently they did with the Mohamedens. Most of these people rail against anything others consider sacred and holy. Many are either atheist and irreligious and have a bone to pick with people of faith.
How many Christians rioted and killed people when they did that?  ???

As soon as their website comes back, I'm buying a subscription.
Hey go ahead if you enjoy that kind of pornographic filth.

But I'm not  sure as a Christian it will be too edifying for your soul. It comes from a disordered spirit.


Af for Christians rioting or killing anyone over blasphemy of Christ or his Mother,, nah, that's going to happen any time soon.

As a matter of fact, they won't make a peep.
 

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Cyrillic said:
hecma925 said:
Charles Martel said:
Innocents? Really? These are the same people who blapshemed Our Lord and the Blessed Mother in provactive images in order to get a rise out of people, apparently they did with the Mohamedens. Most of these people rail against anything others consider sacred and holy. Many are either atheist and irreligious and have a bone to pick with people of faith.
How many Christians rioted and killed people when they did that?  ???

As soon as their website comes back, I'm buying a subscription.
I don't think there'll be another issue after the next one, considering how most of their journalists and their editor have been executed.

The real tragedy, because that means the terrorists win............

 

Charles Martel

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There's more to satire than that. It makes one ponder weighty subjects while at the same time making people laugh.
Yea, a so-called prophet engaging in sexual deviancy and open sodomy. Gee let me ponder on the depth of this.......

Nope, not funny. As a matter of fact, I don't hear anyone else laughing either at this point.

I didn't expect that you would give to jihadis and armed thugs the power to decide the limits of free speech.
Why little ol me? what power could I give anyone? But alas, if I was King of France I would've never let them in to begin with. See, that's the irony here.

The very people that are open and encourage to this kind of "multicutlrualism" are now the victims of it.

Surreal I tell ya.
 

Cyrillic

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Charles Martel said:
There's more to satire than that. It makes one ponder weighty subjects while at the same time making people laugh.
Yea, a so-called prophet engaging in sexual deviancy and open sodomy. Gee let me ponder on the depth of this.......
As if Muhammed didn't do those things, or things similar to it.
 
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