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Natural marriage vs sacramental marriage

Paisius

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I was hoping someone could help me with this. There are some subjects that are kinda hard to research online because when you google them you get a gazillion Catholic websites that just explain the current Catholic position without a lot of background. Can someone point me to some patristic sources that lay out the differences between a natural marriage and a sacramental marriage and how the Gospels say one can be dissolved and the other can't?
 

gueranger

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hecma925 said:
What's a "natural" marriage?
A marriage between non-Christians. It would be marriage, but not a sacrament.
 

Jonathan Gress

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I suppose the Church must have a concept of natural marriage because we do not require a married convert to separate from a non-Orthodox spouse, even though we also do not allow Orthodox to marry outside the Church (at least according to canonical akrivia). So in some sense the non-Orthodox marriage contracted before conversion must be "valid" in some sense.

At the same time, I'm told the canons allow for the converted spouse to divorce the non-Orthodox spouse with no penalty, and presumably he or she may then marry someone else in Church, even if the non-Orthodox former spouse is still alive. Does anyone know more about this?
 

Paisius

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gueranger said:
hecma925 said:
What's a "natural" marriage?
A marriage between non-Christians. It would be marriage, but not a sacrament.

Seems like they extend that also to baptized individuals who failed to contract a valid sacramental marriage for one reason or another.
 

Paisius

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Deacon Lance said:
Paisius said:
NicholasMyra said:
Paisius said:
how the Gospels say one can be dissolved and the other can't?
They do?

I was relaying the Roman Catholic position and asking for clarification.  ;)
St Paul does in 1Cor 7:10-15.


That doesn't exactly support the modern Catholic position as I understand it.

 

gueranger

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Paisius said:
gueranger said:
hecma925 said:
What's a "natural" marriage?
A marriage between non-Christians. It would be marriage, but not a sacrament.

Seems like they extend that also to baptized individuals who failed to contract a valid sacramental marriage for one reason or another.
Technically I don't think so... theoretically in some cases. I think a RC decree of nullity speaks to the validity of the marriage itself, not whether or not it was sacramental. Don't ask me how that works, I'm not sure.

 

gueranger

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Paisius said:
Deacon Lance said:
Paisius said:
NicholasMyra said:
Paisius said:
how the Gospels say one can be dissolved and the other can't?
They do?

I was relaying the Roman Catholic position and asking for clarification.  ;)
St Paul does in 1Cor 7:10-15.


That doesn't exactly support the modern Catholic position as I understand it.
Actually that would be an appropriate example of a natural and non-sacramental marriage from the RC point of view.
 

Paisius

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gueranger said:
Paisius said:
Deacon Lance said:
Paisius said:
NicholasMyra said:
Paisius said:
how the Gospels say one can be dissolved and the other can't?
They do?

I was relaying the Roman Catholic position and asking for clarification.  ;)
St Paul does in 1Cor 7:10-15.


That doesn't exactly support the modern Catholic position as I understand it.
Actually that would be an appropriate example of a natural and non-sacramental marriage from the RC point of view.

Seems to me St Paul makes the distinction and at the same time points out Jesus did not. Either way maybe I'm using the wrong term or misunderstanding something. If a Christian couple has been married for 20 years with children if they get an annulment was there still a natural marriage?
 

gueranger

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Paisius said:
gueranger said:
Paisius said:
Deacon Lance said:
Paisius said:
NicholasMyra said:
Paisius said:
how the Gospels say one can be dissolved and the other can't?
They do?

I was relaying the Roman Catholic position and asking for clarification.  ;)
St Paul does in 1Cor 7:10-15.


That doesn't exactly support the modern Catholic position as I understand it.
Actually that would be an appropriate example of a natural and non-sacramental marriage from the RC point of view.

Seems to me St Paul makes the distinction and at the same time points out Jesus did not. Either way maybe I'm using the wrong term or misunderstanding something. If a Christian couple has been married for 20 years with children if they get an annulment was there still a natural marriage?
I think the answer is maybe, not always.

 
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