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North Macedonian schismatics have just been recognised by the Ecumenical Patriarchate

RaphaCam

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Well, since threats have already been made, I hope they reach an agreement with the EP. Metropolitan Makarios basically said they shouldn't use the name "Macedonian Orthodox Church" (which is a far hotter subject than it seems to be) or have diasporic churches. If the MOC sticks together, there probably won't be room for destabilisation. This may be one thing pushing the SOC to be concessive.

The absolute 3D chess.
 

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Constantinople has just established communion with the schismatic MOC ...
It hurts deeply to be called 'schismatic'. The word Schism means disagreement in beliefs. The MOC didn't change even a dot from the beliefs of the Universal Orthodox Church. It did grant itself autocephaly, which may be called uncanonical, but not schismatic. Most of my family were baptised, married and buried according to the canons. It never felt 'schismatic'. But reading the title of the thread, it feels like we (the common people) have done something deeply shameful.

And it hurts more when I read in the orthodoxtimes.com and other media when it's called the 'so-called' Church. It's not so-called. It's not make-believe. It's a real Church with hierarchy and order and follows the commandments of the Gospel. Please stop using 'so-called', it's painful. And it's not true.

In the orthodoxtimes one reads: 'The Church of Skopje is recognised as the Church of Ohrid' ("so it doesn't offend Hellenistic sensitivity" - from the initial post) - what about the sensitivity of the Macedonians? If one wanted to humiliate the Macedonias with this sentence, then that person, Christian presumably, totally succeeded.

They are granted autonomy (and now autocephaly), but must never-ever mention the name Macedonia ("so it doesn't offend Hellenistic sensitivity" I guess). Why this? As if they are looked upon with disgust and treated as second class citizens. They have been calling their church the Macedonian Church for at least the last two centuries. My maternal grandmother told me this half a century ago. And now they need to stop calling their church that?

I am very, very sad as I write these comments.
In moments like this, I strongly feel the presence of St Nectarios of Aegina in my heart.
Pray for us, St Nectarios. Pray for respect among us, Orthodox brothers and sisters. Pray that we don't talk and don't behave toward each other with pride, but with humility. Pray that all the Orthodox Christians in the Balkans and the world love and cherish each other truly, and not only outwardly.
 
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Autocephaly from the EP always has stipulations.
 

RaphaCam

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It hurts deeply to be called 'schismatic'. The word Schism means disagreement in beliefs. The MOC didn't change even a dot from the beliefs of the Universal Orthodox Church. It did grant itself autocephaly, which may be called uncanonical, but not schismatic. Most of my family were baptised, married and buried according to the canons. It never felt 'schismatic'. But reading the title of the thread, it feels like we (the common people) have done something deeply shameful.
I'm sorry it came out that way, but schism is not a disagreement in beliefs on the faith, it's a disagreement on general beliefs on how the Church should be organised. No one can declare autocephaly unilaterally, it's disobedient and hurts harmony, even though it can be healed.

The common people are not to blame, they usually don't understand the deep issues behind these things. Even clergy often isn't. No one needs to be an expert in ecclesiology to serve at the altar, and, even if they are, they may just accept the official explanation, hope for the best and go on. Some of them actively try to make things right from the inside, and who am I to judge them? Powerful laymen pressing for schism due to their own political agendas and shady clergymen like Bishop Timotej of Debar are another story. Those should be ashamed of themselves.

Anyway, the situation sounded worse than what it actually was before it was clear that the EP and the MOC had different things in mind and the MOC as a whole preferred to heal the schism the right way, not by the EP's jerry-rigging we saw in Ukraine. I apologise for the relative ignorance that was behind my tone, but things are what they are.

In the orthodoxtimes one reads: 'The Church of Skopje is recognised as the Church of Ohrid' ("so it doesn't offend Hellenistic sensitivity" - from the initial post) - what about the sensitivity of the Macedonians? If one wanted to humiliate the Macedonias with this sentence, then that person, Christian presumably, totally succeeded.

They are granted autonomy (and now autocephaly), but must never-ever mention the name Macedonia ("so it doesn't offend Hellenistic sensitivity" I guess). Why this? As if they are looked upon with disgust and treated as second class citizens. They have been calling their church the Macedonian Church for at least the last two centuries. My maternal grandmother told me this half a century ago. And now they need to stop calling their church that?
I was being sarcastic talking about "Hellenistic sensitivity". I fully support the Macedonian identity of North Macedonia. I used to have a bag with your flag, which I'd gotten as a gift working for your country's olympic delegation, and I was pretty sad when it was stolen. Anyway, the SOC doesn't want the MOC to give up its name, that was the EP's requirement.

Pray for us, St Nectarios. Pray for respect among us, Orthodox brothers and sisters. Pray that we don't talk and don't behave toward each other with pride, but with humility. Pray that all the Orthodox Christians in the Balkans and the world love and cherish each other truly, and not only outwardly.
Amen.
 

Mor Ephrem

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As Bartholomew stressed, “we regret having to talk about ourselves, but it is necessary to reveal the truth.

The Great Church of Christ in Constantinople is the mother and nurturer of every child. She doesn’t use her responsibilities for show-offs and smugness.

Sacrifices, worries, admonishes, prays and participates in the pleasant and unpleasant things of the local Churches. ” And he adds: “History proves it, today confirms it. Alexandria, Antioch, Jerusalem, even the Church of Cyprus, would not exist without the assistance of the Ecumenical Patriarchs.

Unfortunately, the greatness and naivety of the Mother Church is perceived by the beneficiaries as indifference, weakness and incompetence.”

 

RaphaCam

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As Bartholomew stressed, “we regret having to talk about ourselves, but it is necessary to reveal the truth.

The Great Church of Christ in Constantinople is the mother and nurturer of every child. She doesn’t use her responsibilities for show-offs and smugness.

Sacrifices, worries, admonishes, prays and participates in the pleasant and unpleasant things of the local Churches. ” And he adds: “History proves it, today confirms it. Alexandria, Antioch, Jerusalem, even the Church of Cyprus, would not exist without the assistance of the Ecumenical Patriarchs.

Unfortunately, the greatness and naivety of the Mother Church is perceived by the beneficiaries as indifference, weakness and incompetence.”
"I get angry... Why the First Rome? Why the New Rome? Why the Third Rome? We had enough of these Romes!" (Bishop Athanasius of Zahumlje and Herzegovina)
 
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The Oecumene doesn't exist anymore. When the EP wakes up and smell the coffee from the break room in Langley, they will realize Christ is the only faithful one.
 

RaphaCam

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The Oecumene doesn't exist anymore. When the EP wakes up and smell the coffee from the break room in Langley, they will realize Christ is the only faithful one.
And behold! It is not Greek coffee, but all-watery American!
 

RaphaCam

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The Greeks do coffee better than we do.
I agree 100%, as a Brazilian (that is, as an ethnically-appointed authority on coffee). I had some coffee done by that Greek guy I was talking to when I met you, but I'm mostly presuming traditional Greek coffee is the same as the Iraqi coffee I get in a local restaurant.
 

Tzimis

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Freddo cappuccino, Freddo espresso, Frappe, and traditional Greek coffee. Are all Greek variants of coffee.
Intrestingly, The first coffee shop in Rome, was opened by a Greek and is still in business today.
 
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RaphaCam

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Palestinian coffee, with cardamom, is the best.
Yeah, that's what that Iraqi restaurant I mentioned serves, with grounds. Great place, if anyone here is ever in Rio I'll take you there. The owners are Assyrians, so they also serve very Middle Eastern alcoholic recipes.
 
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