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OCA News: Serbian Patriarch Irinej to speak at St. Vladimir’s Seminary Sept 11

Second Chance

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I thought I would bring members up to date on positive developments in our Church in North America.

"On Friday, September 11, 2015, the Board of Trustees and Faculty of Saint Vladimir’s Orthodox Theological Seminary here will bestow a Doctor of Divinity degree, honoris causa, upon His Holiness, Irinej, Archbishop of Peć, Metropolitan of Belgrade-Karlovci, and Patriarch of Serbia.  At the Academic Convocation, Patriarch Irinej will deliver an address titled “Theology as a Hope for the Future of the Church"

The Patriarch will be accompanied by (among others) "Archbishop Jovan VI of Ohrid and Metropolitan of Skopje, under the Serbian Patriarchate of Peć, who is internationally known due to his time spent as a political prisoner."

http://oca.org/news/headline-news/serbian-patriarch-irinej-to-speak-at-st.-vladimirs-seminary-september-11
 

Mountain

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Such ignorance from the OCA site. Patriarch Irinej is not the Patriarch of Serbia, he is Serbian Patriarch, the jurisdiction of the Serbian Church is entire former Yugoslavia, not just Serbia.
The Title is, His holiness - Archbishop of Peć, Metropolitan of Belgrade and Karlovci, Serbian Patriarch sir Irinej.

 

Asteriktos

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Various texts at the website of The Serbian Orthodox Church in North and South America have used the phrase 'Patriarch of Serbia' as well.
 

orthoreader

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Mountain said:
Such ignorance from the OCA site. Patriarch Irinej is not the Patriarch of Serbia, he is Serbian Patriarch, the jurisdiction of the Serbian Church is entire former Yugoslavia, not just Serbia.
The Title is, His holiness - Archbishop of Peć, Metropolitan of Belgrade and Karlovci, Serbian Patriarch sir Irinej.
Anything to continue Serbian hegemony however mythological it is at this point ...
 

ialmisry

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Mor Ephrem said:
Mountain said:
Then it must be some English language thing.
Probably.  So let English speakers handle it.
Given the Slavic propensity for gentilic adjectives over the genitive constructions preferred by English, Mountain is making it out of a mole hill.
 

ialmisry

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Mountain said:
Such ignorance from the OCA site. Patriarch Irinej is not the Patriarch of Serbia, he is Serbian Patriarch, the jurisdiction of the Serbian Church is entire former Yugoslavia, not just Serbia.
The Title is, His holiness - Archbishop of Peć, Metropolitan of Belgrade and Karlovci, Serbian Patriarch sir Irinej.
His predecessor back when there was a Y/Jugoslavia was not entitled Patriarch thereof.
 

Mountain

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ialmisry said:
Mountain said:
Such ignorance from the OCA site. Patriarch Irinej is not the Patriarch of Serbia, he is Serbian Patriarch, the jurisdiction of the Serbian Church is entire former Yugoslavia, not just Serbia.
The Title is, His holiness - Archbishop of Peć, Metropolitan of Belgrade and Karlovci, Serbian Patriarch sir Irinej.
His predecessor back when there was a Y/Jugoslavia was not entitled Patriarch thereof.
Patriarch Pavle held same title.
 

Mountain

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orthoreader said:
Mountain said:
Such ignorance from the OCA site. Patriarch Irinej is not the Patriarch of Serbia, he is Serbian Patriarch, the jurisdiction of the Serbian Church is entire former Yugoslavia, not just Serbia.
The Title is, His holiness - Archbishop of Peć, Metropolitan of Belgrade and Karlovci, Serbian Patriarch sir Irinej.
Anything to continue Serbian hegemony however mythological it is at this point ...
Serbian hegemony?

Half of the most important and oldest monasteries of the Serbian Orthodox Church are outside of today's Serbia, ancient Serbia's lands were Montenegro, Herzegovina, South-west Serbia, Kosovo and some parts of Macedonia.
 

ialmisry

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Mountain said:
ialmisry said:
Mountain said:
Such ignorance from the OCA site. Patriarch Irinej is not the Patriarch of Serbia, he is Serbian Patriarch, the jurisdiction of the Serbian Church is entire former Yugoslavia, not just Serbia.
The Title is, His holiness - Archbishop of Peć, Metropolitan of Belgrade and Karlovci, Serbian Patriarch sir Irinej.
His predecessor back when there was a Y/Jugoslavia was not entitled Patriarch thereof.
Patriarch Pavle held same title.
Patriarch of Y/Jugoslavia? No, the patriarch of blessed memory did not.
 

Iconodule

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Mountain said:
orthoreader said:
Mountain said:
Such ignorance from the OCA site. Patriarch Irinej is not the Patriarch of Serbia, he is Serbian Patriarch, the jurisdiction of the Serbian Church is entire former Yugoslavia, not just Serbia.
The Title is, His holiness - Archbishop of Peć, Metropolitan of Belgrade and Karlovci, Serbian Patriarch sir Irinej.
Anything to continue Serbian hegemony however mythological it is at this point ...
Serbian hegemony?

Half of the most important and oldest monasteries of the Serbian Orthodox Church are outside of today's Serbia, ancient Serbia's lands were Montenegro, Herzegovina, South-west Serbia, Kosovo and some parts of Macedonia.
So Kosovo isn't Serbia after all?
 

Mountain

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Iconodule said:
Mountain said:
orthoreader said:
Mountain said:
Such ignorance from the OCA site. Patriarch Irinej is not the Patriarch of Serbia, he is Serbian Patriarch, the jurisdiction of the Serbian Church is entire former Yugoslavia, not just Serbia.
The Title is, His holiness - Archbishop of Peć, Metropolitan of Belgrade and Karlovci, Serbian Patriarch sir Irinej.
Anything to continue Serbian hegemony however mythological it is at this point ...
Serbian hegemony?

Half of the most important and oldest monasteries of the Serbian Orthodox Church are outside of today's Serbia, ancient Serbia's lands were Montenegro, Herzegovina, South-west Serbia, Kosovo and some parts of Macedonia.
So Kosovo isn't Serbia after all?
Of course it is not, it broke away. :D Now Muslims rape Christians and burn monasteries. loooool xD
 

Mountain

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ialmisry said:
Mountain said:
ialmisry said:
Mountain said:
Such ignorance from the OCA site. Patriarch Irinej is not the Patriarch of Serbia, he is Serbian Patriarch, the jurisdiction of the Serbian Church is entire former Yugoslavia, not just Serbia.
The Title is, His holiness - Archbishop of Peć, Metropolitan of Belgrade and Karlovci, Serbian Patriarch sir Irinej.
His predecessor back when there was a Y/Jugoslavia was not entitled Patriarch thereof.
Patriarch Pavle held same title.
Patriarch of Y/Jugoslavia? No, the patriarch of blessed memory did not.
He was Serbian Patriarch, not Patriarch of Serbia nor Patriarch of Yugoslavia. Just like patriarch Irinej.
 

ialmisry

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Mountain said:
ialmisry said:
Mountain said:
ialmisry said:
Mountain said:
Such ignorance from the OCA site. Patriarch Irinej is not the Patriarch of Serbia, he is Serbian Patriarch, the jurisdiction of the Serbian Church is entire former Yugoslavia, not just Serbia.
The Title is, His holiness - Archbishop of Peć, Metropolitan of Belgrade and Karlovci, Serbian Patriarch sir Irinej.
His predecessor back when there was a Y/Jugoslavia was not entitled Patriarch thereof.
Patriarch Pavle held same title.
Patriarch of Y/Jugoslavia? No, the patriarch of blessed memory did not.
He was Serbian Patriarch, not Patriarch of Serbia nor Patriarch of Yugoslavia. Just like patriarch Irinej.

Arhiepiskop pećki, mitropolit beogradsko-karlovački i patrijarh srpski
Archbishop of Pec, Metropolitan of Belgrad-Karlovski and Patriarch of Serbia.
 

Second Chance

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In all fairness to Mountain, there seem to be differing versions even in official sources. Here is one from the Constitution of the Church:

"Article 13

The Serbian Patriarch shall be the Supreme Head of the Serbian Orthodox Church.

The title of the Patriarch shall be: "The Archbishop of Pech, Metropolitan of Belgrade and Karlovac and Serbian Patriarch."

http://www.spc.rs/eng/church

I know very little Serbo-Croatian, but it seems to me that the order of words matter. In this instance, am I correct to say that "Patrijarh srpski" would be translated as Patriarch of Serbia, but "Srpski Patrijarh" would mean Serbian Patriarch?
 

orthoreader

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He can call himself Patriarch of whatever he wants as long as he is showing the same, mercy, love, and inclusion to others.
 

Dominika

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Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) said:
In all fairness to Mountain, there seem to be differing versions even in official sources. Here is one from the Constitution of the Church:

"Article 13

The Serbian Patriarch shall be the Supreme Head of the Serbian Orthodox Church.

The title of the Patriarch shall be: "The Archbishop of Pech, Metropolitan of Belgrade and Karlovac and Serbian Patriarch."

http://www.spc.rs/eng/church

I know very little Serbo-Croatian, but it seems to me that the order of words matter. In this instance, am I correct to say that "Patrijarh srpski" would be translated as Patriarch of Serbia, but "Srpski Patrijarh" would mean Serbian Patriarch?
The order of the words doesn't matter: patrijarh srpski=srpski patrijarh => Serbian patriarch.

So, that's true, that the head of the Serbian Orthodox Church is Serbian patriarch, not patriarch of Serbia (in Serbian it would be patrijarh Srbije), as all the centuries Serbs have been living not only in the country called Serbia, but also the surrounding areas. So, actually, he may be called "patriarch of Serbs" too.
 

Second Chance

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Mor Ephrem said:
An ethnarch!
That is not such a bad idea. After all, the Great Commission calls for making of disciples of all nations, not of geographical areas. A huge problem arises when the State enters the picture: invariably, nations are made to mean the political entity. Thus, the Serbian Church has pretended that other Slavs in Yugoslavia were Serbian, often forcing the Serbian language and culture on non-Serbian Slavs, like Bulgarians.  Thus, the Greek Church (mainly Constantinople) did the same thing in the Balkans. Thus, the Russian Church did it to Belorussians and Ukrainians. Etc...That said, it would be ideal if the ethnic churches can co-exist with others within the same political entity. Certainly, it would be most Christian if Christian Churches refrained from coercion.
 

Dominika

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Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) said:
Thus, the Serbian Church has pretended that other Slavs in Yugoslavia were Serbian,
"Only" Macedonians. And that's really a pity, as nowadays there wouldn't be such situation, that practically the whole nation is considered (at least officialy) to be outside Orthodox Church despite being Orthodox.

Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) said:
often forcing the Serbian language and culture on non-Serbian Slavs, like Bulgarians.
Bulgarians? When?
 

Second Chance

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Dominika said:
Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) said:
Thus, the Serbian Church has pretended that other Slavs in Yugoslavia were Serbian,
"Only" Macedonians. And that's really a pity, as nowadays there wouldn't be such situation, that practically the whole nation is considered (at least officialy) to be outside Orthodox Church despite being Orthodox.

Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) said:
often forcing the Serbian language and culture on non-Serbian Slavs, like Bulgarians.
Bulgarians? When?
I am afraid that answering your question on the Christian News Section would takes us into some polemical areas. I am going to answer you via PM, if that is OK with you.
 

Dominika

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Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) said:
Dominika said:
Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) said:
Thus, the Serbian Church has pretended that other Slavs in Yugoslavia were Serbian,
"Only" Macedonians. And that's really a pity, as nowadays there wouldn't be such situation, that practically the whole nation is considered (at least officialy) to be outside Orthodox Church despite being Orthodox.

Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) said:
often forcing the Serbian language and culture on non-Serbian Slavs, like Bulgarians.
Bulgarians? When?
I am afraid that answering your question on the Christian News Section would takes us into some polemical areas. I am going to answer you via PM, if that is OK with you.
If you think so, OK, please send me PM
 

Byron

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Dominika said:
Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) said:
Thus, the Serbian Church has pretended that other Slavs in Yugoslavia were Serbian,
"Only" Macedonians. And that's really a pity, as nowadays there wouldn't be such situation, that practically the whole nation is considered (at least officialy) to be outside Orthodox Church despite being Orthodox.

Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) said:
often forcing the Serbian language and culture on non-Serbian Slavs, like Bulgarians.
Bulgarians? When?
Macedonians = Greeks
Slav "marchedonians" = Bulgarians
Bosnians = Serb Muslims
Montenegrins = Serbs

 

LenInSebastopol

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While the word "religion" meant "to bind together" it is important to some to keep the hate going and tearing apart of peoples.
OrthoReaders post nailed it better than all.
 

ialmisry

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Dominika said:
Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) said:
Dominika said:
Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) said:
Thus, the Serbian Church has pretended that other Slavs in Yugoslavia were Serbian,
"Only" Macedonians. And that's really a pity, as nowadays there wouldn't be such situation, that practically the whole nation is considered (at least officialy) to be outside Orthodox Church despite being Orthodox.

Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) said:
often forcing the Serbian language and culture on non-Serbian Slavs, like Bulgarians.
Bulgarians? When?
I am afraid that answering your question on the Christian News Section would takes us into some polemical areas. I am going to answer you via PM, if that is OK with you.
If you think so, OK, please send me PM

 
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