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Official stance of the RCC on orthodoxy

TruthSeeker

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What position does the Roman Catholic church take against orthodoxy? Do they think the orthodox are heretics as they think protestants are? I am talking about the official church stance and not the stance taken by individuals within the church.

 

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The Vatican officially says the Orthodox are not heretical but guilty only of schism by not accepting Rome's jurisdiction over the Orthodox.  Rome also views all of our sacraments / mysteries to be valid / grace-filled. 

That is the current Vatican position - the shifting historical attitudes are not so simple... nor do the Orthodox reciprocate Vatican views always. 
 

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Silouan said:
The Vatican officially says the Orthodox are not heretical but guilty only of schism by not accepting Rome's jurisdiction over the Orthodox.  Rome also views all of our sacraments / mysteries to be valid / grace-filled. 

That is the current Vatican position - the shifting historical attitudes are not so simple... nor do the Orthodox reciprocate Vatican views always. 

Thank you for the good reply

Can a Roman Catholic take communion in an orthodox church...and visa versa?

 

Asteriktos

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From a Catholic POV, there are no barriers to intercommunion. From an Orthodox POV, however, Orthodox generally cannot (and would have no reason to) partake of Catholic sacraments, nor are Catholics permitted to partake of Orthodox Sacraments (the only exception I know being that Catholics can be communed by an Orthodox priest if they are near death).
 

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Asteriktos said:
From a Catholic POV, there are no barriers to intercommunion. From an Orthodox POV, however, Orthodox generally cannot (and would have no reason to) partake of Catholic sacraments, nor are Catholics permitted to partake of Orthodox Sacraments (the only exception I know being that Catholics can be communed by an Orthodox priest if they are near death).
I am curious if an orthodox is in an area heavily populated mostly by Catholics and there aren't any Orthodox parishes within hours, would this not be a case where Orthodox could have a reason?
 

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Seafra said:
Asteriktos said:
From a Catholic POV, there are no barriers to intercommunion. From an Orthodox POV, however, Orthodox generally cannot (and would have no reason to) partake of Catholic sacraments, nor are Catholics permitted to partake of Orthodox Sacraments (the only exception I know being that Catholics can be communed by an Orthodox priest if they are near death).
I am curious if an orthodox is in an area heavily populated mostly by Catholics and there aren't any Orthodox parishes within hours, would this not be a case where Orthodox could have a reason?
Generally no...

The Catholic POV is that receiving Communion in the RC Church, in addition to everything else it is, is making a public proclamation of obedience to the Pope, and acceptance of all doctrines of Rome. It is seen as technically becoming Catholic (not for Protestants who would need to be Baptised, but for Orthodox who are already Baptised from Rome's point of view, and are merely in schism... Communing is seen as repenting of the schism). So Communing in a Catholic Church is tantamount to publicly rejecting Orthodoxy, and accepting many teachings foreign to Orthodoxy. Early on, many Orthodox were advised to receive Communion in an Anglican Church, which was willing to extend sacramental hospitality without the strings attached by Catholicism... but this is clearly no longer an option, and it is questionable whether it was the correct decision at the time...

If we are legitimately unable to attend Church, we trust in God to provide for us. We pray at home. We use what is available to us. It is entirely different than choosing not to go to Church and receive Communion. Some can only commute long distance infrequently to commune, and otherwise must pray in the home.
 

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Jonathan said:
Seafra said:
Asteriktos said:
From a Catholic POV, there are no barriers to intercommunion. From an Orthodox POV, however, Orthodox generally cannot (and would have no reason to) partake of Catholic sacraments, nor are Catholics permitted to partake of Orthodox Sacraments (the only exception I know being that Catholics can be communed by an Orthodox priest if they are near death).
I am curious if an orthodox is in an area heavily populated mostly by Catholics and there aren't any Orthodox parishes within hours, would this not be a case where Orthodox could have a reason?
Generally no...

The Catholic POV is that receiving Communion in the RC Church, in addition to everything else it is, is making a public proclamation of obedience to the Pope, and acceptance of all doctrines of Rome. It is seen as technically becoming Catholic (not for Protestants who would need to be Baptised, but for Orthodox who are already Baptised from Rome's point of view, and are merely in schism... Communing is seen as repenting of the schism). So Communing in a Catholic Church is tantamount to publicly rejecting Orthodoxy, and accepting many teachings foreign to Orthodoxy. Early on, many Orthodox were advised to receive Communion in an Anglican Church, which was willing to extend sacramental hospitality without the strings attached by Catholicism... but this is clearly no longer an option, and it is questionable whether it was the correct decision at the time...

If we are legitimately unable to attend Church, we trust in God to provide for us. We pray at home. We use what is available to us. It is entirely different than choosing not to go to Church and receive Communion. Some can only commute long distance infrequently to commune, and otherwise must pray in the home.
Ah I see thanks for that! i was unaware Rome made such consequences...
 

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According to the last Roman Catholic missal I had, a few years ago, they give Communion to Orthodox who wish to come forward.
 

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Jonathan said:
Generally no...

The Catholic POV is that receiving Communion in the RC Church, in addition to everything else it is, is making a public proclamation of obedience to the Pope, and acceptance of all doctrines of Rome. It is seen as technically becoming Catholic (not for Protestants who would need to be Baptised, but for Orthodox who are already Baptised from Rome's point of view, and are merely in schism... Communing is seen as repenting of the schism). So Communing in a Catholic Church is tantamount to publicly rejecting Orthodoxy, and accepting many teachings foreign to Orthodoxy.
I think you are wrong. I was told many times that we are those who consider Communion as a proclamation of the Creed.
 

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Michał Kalina said:
Jonathan said:
Generally no...

The Catholic POV is that receiving Communion in the RC Church, in addition to everything else it is, is making a public proclamation of obedience to the Pope, and acceptance of all doctrines of Rome. It is seen as technically becoming Catholic (not for Protestants who would need to be Baptised, but for Orthodox who are already Baptised from Rome's point of view, and are merely in schism... Communing is seen as repenting of the schism). So Communing in a Catholic Church is tantamount to publicly rejecting Orthodoxy, and accepting many teachings foreign to Orthodoxy.
I think you are wrong. I was told many times that we are those who consider Communion as a proclamation of the Creed.
there are alot of churches who proclaim the creed though. That doesn't mean we are in communion with them.
 

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Asteriktos said:
From a Catholic POV, there are no barriers to intercommunion. From an Orthodox POV, however, Orthodox generally cannot (and would have no reason to) partake of Catholic sacraments, nor are Catholics permitted to partake of Orthodox Sacraments (the only exception I know being that Catholics can be communed by an Orthodox priest if they are near death).
Can an Orthodox be communed by an RC priest on their death bed if there is no EO one available?
 

Asteriktos

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I don't know. I guess some would say yes, certainly. Others no. If you don't think they have grace, then there'd be no point. If you think they do, are or unsure, then I suppose it'd be different.  Sorry for not giving a straight answer, I just don't think there is one agreed upon...
 

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Back in the early years of the 21st century, Catholic parishes began to publish in their Sunday bulletins and such that the Catholic Church allowed the faithful of the other Apostolic Churches - the EO, OO, ACOE, and PNCC - to receive the Mysteries of Communion and Penance if they were properly disposed and requested to do so. (Technically, the provision of Canon Law says something to the effect that it is allowed when those of the other Churches are impeded from approaching the clergy of their own Church or something similar, but it was interpreted rather broadly.)

Shortly thereafter, the bulletin text was reworked to where it now says something to the effect that, while the Catholic Church permits this, it encourages those of the other Apostolic Churches to conform to the instructions of their own hierarchs in deciding whether or not they may do so - and for most Orthodox Christians that would preclude them from doing so.

That the practice is not outright rejected by Rome on the basis of the Orthodox rejection of it is probably because of the fact that there are formal and informal pastoral agreements between Rome and a few OO and other Churches that provide for the faithful of each such to receive pastoral care and, particularly, those Mysteries in the counterpart Churches if their own clergy are not available. Such formal agreements exist between: Rome and the ACOE and the Chaldean Catholic Churches; and, between Rome and the Syriac Orthodox and Catholic Churches. There is also a long-standing informal agreement that applies to the Armenian Catholic and Apostolic Churches. At one time, there was a similar informal agreement between Rome and the Coptic Orthodox and Catholic Churches, but that is no longer the case. Few of these pastoral care provisions are ever invoked these days because most of the Churches, Catholic and otherwise, are now adequately represented in the diaspora (which is where they were most commonly invoked) - that wasn't always true.

As well, in the Middle East, because of intermarriage, persecution, etc, there are instances in which intercommunion occurs among Catholic and Orthodox communities.

Many years,

Neil
 

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Seafra said:
Jonathan said:
Seafra said:
Asteriktos said:
From a Catholic POV, there are no barriers to intercommunion. From an Orthodox POV, however, Orthodox generally cannot (and would have no reason to) partake of Catholic sacraments, nor are Catholics permitted to partake of Orthodox Sacraments (the only exception I know being that Catholics can be communed by an Orthodox priest if they are near death).
I am curious if an orthodox is in an area heavily populated mostly by Catholics and there aren't any Orthodox parishes within hours, would this not be a case where Orthodox could have a reason?
Generally no...

The Catholic POV is that receiving Communion in the RC Church, in addition to everything else it is, is making a public proclamation of obedience to the Pope, and acceptance of all doctrines of Rome. It is seen as technically becoming Catholic (not for Protestants who would need to be Baptised, but for Orthodox who are already Baptised from Rome's point of view, and are merely in schism... Communing is seen as repenting of the schism). So Communing in a Catholic Church is tantamount to publicly rejecting Orthodoxy, and accepting many teachings foreign to Orthodoxy. Early on, many Orthodox were advised to receive Communion in an Anglican Church, which was willing to extend sacramental hospitality without the strings attached by Catholicism... but this is clearly no longer an option, and it is questionable whether it was the correct decision at the time...

If we are legitimately unable to attend Church, we trust in God to provide for us. We pray at home. We use what is available to us. It is entirely different than choosing not to go to Church and receive Communion. Some can only commute long distance infrequently to commune, and otherwise must pray in the home.
Ah I see thanks for that! i was unaware Rome made such consequences...
In reality there are no strings attached from the Catholic point of view.  Not sure where that idea comes from but the openness of Catholic sacraments to Orthodox believers is not some attempt to "make" Orthodox believers papists.  It is in recognition that the Orthodox are one holy catholic and apostolic.  It is said that the schism is material and not formal.

Catholics are allowed to receive Orthodox sacraments for the good of the soul, whether that is at death or in a time in life when there is some compelling spiritual need.  It actually happens that way though it is not widely advertised.

M.
 

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elijahmaria said:
Seafra said:
Jonathan said:
Seafra said:
Asteriktos said:
From a Catholic POV, there are no barriers to intercommunion. From an Orthodox POV, however, Orthodox generally cannot (and would have no reason to) partake of Catholic sacraments, nor are Catholics permitted to partake of Orthodox Sacraments (the only exception I know being that Catholics can be communed by an Orthodox priest if they are near death).
I am curious if an orthodox is in an area heavily populated mostly by Catholics and there aren't any Orthodox parishes within hours, would this not be a case where Orthodox could have a reason?
Generally no...

The Catholic POV is that receiving Communion in the RC Church, in addition to everything else it is, is making a public proclamation of obedience to the Pope, and acceptance of all doctrines of Rome. It is seen as technically becoming Catholic (not for Protestants who would need to be Baptised, but for Orthodox who are already Baptised from Rome's point of view, and are merely in schism... Communing is seen as repenting of the schism). So Communing in a Catholic Church is tantamount to publicly rejecting Orthodoxy, and accepting many teachings foreign to Orthodoxy. Early on, many Orthodox were advised to receive Communion in an Anglican Church, which was willing to extend sacramental hospitality without the strings attached by Catholicism... but this is clearly no longer an option, and it is questionable whether it was the correct decision at the time...

If we are legitimately unable to attend Church, we trust in God to provide for us. We pray at home. We use what is available to us. It is entirely different than choosing not to go to Church and receive Communion. Some can only commute long distance infrequently to commune, and otherwise must pray in the home.
Ah I see thanks for that! i was unaware Rome made such consequences...
In reality there are no strings attached from the Catholic point of view.  Not sure where that idea comes from but the openness of Catholic sacraments to Orthodox believers is not some attempt to "make" Orthodox believers papists.  It is in recognition that the Orthodox are one holy catholic and apostolic.  It is said that the schism is material and not formal.

Catholics are allowed to receive Orthodox sacraments for the good of the soul, whether that is at death or in a time in life when there is some compelling spiritual need.  It actually happens that way though it is not widely advertised.

M.
So thats kinds conflicting to what everyone else is saying.

Seafra said:
Jonathan said:
Seafra said:
Asteriktos said:
From a Catholic POV, there are no barriers to intercommunion. From an Orthodox POV, however, Orthodox generally cannot (and would have no reason to) partake of Catholic sacraments, nor are Catholics permitted to partake of Orthodox Sacraments (the only exception I know being that Catholics can be communed by an Orthodox priest if they are near death).
I am curious if an orthodox is in an area heavily populated mostly by Catholics and there aren't any Orthodox parishes within hours, would this not be a case where Orthodox could have a reason?
Generally no...

The Catholic POV is that receiving Communion in the RC Church, in addition to everything else it is, is making a public proclamation of obedience to the Pope, and acceptance of all doctrines of Rome. It is seen as technically becoming Catholic (not for Protestants who would need to be Baptised, but for Orthodox who are already Baptised from Rome's point of view, and are merely in schism... Communing is seen as repenting of the schism). So Communing in a Catholic Church is tantamount to publicly rejecting Orthodoxy, and accepting many teachings foreign to Orthodoxy. Early on, many Orthodox were advised to receive Communion in an Anglican Church, which was willing to extend sacramental hospitality without the strings attached by Catholicism... but this is clearly no longer an option, and it is questionable whether it was the correct decision at the time...

If we are legitimately unable to attend Church, we trust in God to provide for us. We pray at home. We use what is available to us. It is entirely different than choosing not to go to Church and receive Communion. Some can only commute long distance infrequently to commune, and otherwise must pray in the home.
Ah I see thanks for that! i was unaware Rome made such consequences...
would it not be okay to attend a catholic liturgy and not participate in communion? or is that a taboo?
 

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Seafra said:
elijahmaria said:
Seafra said:
Jonathan said:
Seafra said:
Asteriktos said:
From a Catholic POV, there are no barriers to intercommunion. From an Orthodox POV, however, Orthodox generally cannot (and would have no reason to) partake of Catholic sacraments, nor are Catholics permitted to partake of Orthodox Sacraments (the only exception I know being that Catholics can be communed by an Orthodox priest if they are near death).
I am curious if an orthodox is in an area heavily populated mostly by Catholics and there aren't any Orthodox parishes within hours, would this not be a case where Orthodox could have a reason?
Generally no...

The Catholic POV is that receiving Communion in the RC Church, in addition to everything else it is, is making a public proclamation of obedience to the Pope, and acceptance of all doctrines of Rome. It is seen as technically becoming Catholic (not for Protestants who would need to be Baptised, but for Orthodox who are already Baptised from Rome's point of view, and are merely in schism... Communing is seen as repenting of the schism). So Communing in a Catholic Church is tantamount to publicly rejecting Orthodoxy, and accepting many teachings foreign to Orthodoxy. Early on, many Orthodox were advised to receive Communion in an Anglican Church, which was willing to extend sacramental hospitality without the strings attached by Catholicism... but this is clearly no longer an option, and it is questionable whether it was the correct decision at the time...

If we are legitimately unable to attend Church, we trust in God to provide for us. We pray at home. We use what is available to us. It is entirely different than choosing not to go to Church and receive Communion. Some can only commute long distance infrequently to commune, and otherwise must pray in the home.
Ah I see thanks for that! i was unaware Rome made such consequences...
In reality there are no strings attached from the Catholic point of view.  Not sure where that idea comes from but the openness of Catholic sacraments to Orthodox believers is not some attempt to "make" Orthodox believers papists.  It is in recognition that the Orthodox are one holy catholic and apostolic.  It is said that the schism is material and not formal.

Catholics are allowed to receive Orthodox sacraments for the good of the soul, whether that is at death or in a time in life when there is some compelling spiritual need.  It actually happens that way though it is not widely advertised.

M.
So thats kinds conflicting to what everyone else is saying.

Seafra said:
Jonathan said:
Seafra said:
Asteriktos said:
From a Catholic POV, there are no barriers to intercommunion. From an Orthodox POV, however, Orthodox generally cannot (and would have no reason to) partake of Catholic sacraments, nor are Catholics permitted to partake of Orthodox Sacraments (the only exception I know being that Catholics can be communed by an Orthodox priest if they are near death).
I am curious if an orthodox is in an area heavily populated mostly by Catholics and there aren't any Orthodox parishes within hours, would this not be a case where Orthodox could have a reason?
Generally no...

The Catholic POV is that receiving Communion in the RC Church, in addition to everything else it is, is making a public proclamation of obedience to the Pope, and acceptance of all doctrines of Rome. It is seen as technically becoming Catholic (not for Protestants who would need to be Baptised, but for Orthodox who are already Baptised from Rome's point of view, and are merely in schism... Communing is seen as repenting of the schism). So Communing in a Catholic Church is tantamount to publicly rejecting Orthodoxy, and accepting many teachings foreign to Orthodoxy. Early on, many Orthodox were advised to receive Communion in an Anglican Church, which was willing to extend sacramental hospitality without the strings attached by Catholicism... but this is clearly no longer an option, and it is questionable whether it was the correct decision at the time...

If we are legitimately unable to attend Church, we trust in God to provide for us. We pray at home. We use what is available to us. It is entirely different than choosing not to go to Church and receive Communion. Some can only commute long distance infrequently to commune, and otherwise must pray in the home.
Ah I see thanks for that! i was unaware Rome made such consequences...
would it not be okay to attend a catholic liturgy and not participate in communion? or is that a taboo?
Depends on who you ask.  Some Orthodox hold that Orthodox may not pray with Catholics or other "heretics".  Those who do not hold that we are "heretics" might just say it *is* alright.  From a Catholic point of view, it is perfectly alright.
 

Maria

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Michał Kalina said:
Jonathan said:
Generally no...

The Catholic POV is that receiving Communion in the RC Church, in addition to everything else it is, is making a public proclamation of obedience to the Pope, and acceptance of all doctrines of Rome. It is seen as technically becoming Catholic (not for Protestants who would need to be Baptised, but for Orthodox who are already Baptised from Rome's point of view, and are merely in schism... Communing is seen as repenting of the schism). So Communing in a Catholic Church is tantamount to publicly rejecting Orthodoxy, and accepting many teachings foreign to Orthodoxy.
I think you are wrong. I was told many times that we are those who consider Communion as a proclamation of the Creed.
That is true. Orthodox Christians should not receive communion in non-Orthodox Churches because then we would be agreeing to their ecclesiology and committing scandal. Thus, we would be committing such a serious sin that we might be penanced for at least one year if we were to confess this in the Orthodox Church.
 

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Seafra said:
ialmisry said:
Who cares?
I care. That would be why I ask. I hope to convert son I also plan to move to Ireland in an area that is untouched by orthodoxy and this is something I would like to know about.
While he put it brusquely, ialmisry's point is very real. Presumably you are hoping to convert to British Orthodoxy (the one under the Coptic Orthodox Church I believe?) because you believe it is the true Church. If that is not what you think, then you shouldn't be converting. If that is what you think, then the opinion of any other group (RC, Lutheran, Baptists, Muslims, etc) is largely irrelevent except as seen through the lens of the true Church. If the British Orthodox Church allows its adherents to partake of RC sacraments, then it doesn't matter why the RCC allows it, you would be doing so based on the BOC's reasoning. If the BOC doesn't allow it, then it doesn't matter at all what the RCC allows.

(Have you checked with Fr. Peter or another priest or bishop of the BOC?)
 

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witega said:
Seafra said:
ialmisry said:
Who cares?
I care. That would be why I ask. I hope to convert son I also plan to move to Ireland in an area that is untouched by orthodoxy and this is something I would like to know about.
While he put it brusquely, ialmisry's point is very real. Presumably you are hoping to convert to British Orthodoxy (the one under the Coptic Orthodox Church I believe?) because you believe it is the true Church. If that is not what you think, then you shouldn't be converting. If that is what you think, then the opinion of any other group (RC, Lutheran, Baptists, Muslims, etc) is largely irrelevent except as seen through the lens of the true Church. If the British Orthodox Church allows its adherents to partake of RC sacraments, then it doesn't matter why the RCC allows it, you would be doing so based on the BOC's reasoning. If the BOC doesn't allow it, then it doesn't matter at all what the RCC allows.

(Have you checked with Fr. Peter or another priest or bishop of the BOC?)
no i havent because i came to understand that its largely not accepted. The part of attending liturgy w/o communion just came to me today so i figured i would just get opinions. I understand that that at the end of the line its dependent on the Bishop, but its also good to know how and why the church operates the way it does.
 

ialmisry

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Seafra said:
ialmisry said:
Who cares?
I care. That would be why I ask. I hope to convert son I also plan to move to Ireland in an area that is untouched by orthodoxy and this is something I would like to know about.
Then you will be doing the touching.  More important is what Orthodoxy's official stance on the Vatican., not the reverse.

Given your situation, you might, contrary to your OP, be interested in individuals' stances within the Vatican's flock, as that is what you will be dealing with, not an abstract, rarified official pronouncement from the Vatican.

Btw, you do know that there are Orthodox in Ireland?  Since it takes 7 hours to go from one extreme of the island to another, you will not be totally devoid of fellowship.  Where are you going?
 

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witega said:
Seafra said:
ialmisry said:
Who cares?
I care. That would be why I ask. I hope to convert son I also plan to move to Ireland in an area that is untouched by orthodoxy and this is something I would like to know about.
While he put it brusquely, ialmisry's point is very real. Presumably you are hoping to convert to British Orthodoxy (the one under the Coptic Orthodox Church I believe?) because you believe it is the true Church. If that is not what you think, then you shouldn't be converting. If that is what you think, then the opinion of any other group (RC, Lutheran, Baptists, Muslims, etc) is largely irrelevent except as seen through the lens of the true Church. If the British Orthodox Church allows its adherents to partake of RC sacraments, then it doesn't matter why the RCC allows it, you would be doing so based on the BOC's reasoning. If the BOC doesn't allow it, then it doesn't matter at all what the RCC allows.

(Have you checked with Fr. Peter or another priest or bishop of the BOC?)
You got all that from "Who cares?"?  :eek:

:) Seriously though, I see your point; but I think you might be confusing Seafra, who asked about the Orthodox p.o.v., with TruthSeeker, who asked about the Roman p.o.v. (about 6 years ago).
 

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Asteriktos said:
From a Catholic POV, there are no barriers to intercommunion. From an Orthodox POV, however, Orthodox generally cannot (and would have no reason to) partake of Catholic sacraments, nor are Catholics permitted to partake of Orthodox Sacraments (the only exception I know being that Catholics can be communed by an Orthodox priest if they are near death).
It isn't even true to say that "From a Catholic POV, there are no barriers to intercommunion."
 

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Peter J said:
It isn't even true to say that "From a Catholic POV, there are no barriers to intercommunion."
Between churches, there are barriers, we know the obvious ones and couold dispute over the minor ones that some might find disagreement over whether or not they are worth maintianing schism, but yes there are barriers to intercommunoin between churches.

On a more personal level of the faithful, according to Roman canon law, a RC priest is not allowed to turn away anyone Orthdox from the chalice as long as they are properly prepared, and all RC faithful are allowed to commune in any Orthodox church that will serve them. There is no barrier here from Rome preventing the intercommunion of the faithful.
 

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and all RC faithful are allowed to commune in any Orthodox church that will serve them
An Orthodox priest who does this will be subject to discipline which could involve defrocking. So, the Roman law which allows this is, at best, meaningless, and, at worst, subversion.
 

elijahmaria

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LBK said:
and all RC faithful are allowed to commune in any Orthodox church that will serve them
An Orthodox priest who does this will be subject to discipline which could involve defrocking. So, the Roman law which allows this is, at best, meaningless, and, at worst, subversion.
And then what weasel words do you use to explain away the fact that inter-communion IS practiced and there are not consequences?
 

Maria

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elijahmaria said:
LBK said:
and all RC faithful are allowed to commune in any Orthodox church that will serve them
An Orthodox priest who does this will be subject to discipline which could involve defrocking. So, the Roman law which allows this is, at best, meaningless, and, at worst, subversion.
And then what weasel words do you use to explain away the fact that inter-communion IS practiced and there are not consequences?
false ecumenism
 

elijahmaria

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Maria said:
elijahmaria said:
LBK said:
and all RC faithful are allowed to commune in any Orthodox church that will serve them
An Orthodox priest who does this will be subject to discipline which could involve defrocking. So, the Roman law which allows this is, at best, meaningless, and, at worst, subversion.
And then what weasel words do you use to explain away the fact that inter-communion IS practiced and there are not consequences?
false ecumenism
That's about par, since what we are talking about is communion. 

I guess its the real deal from the chalice for Orthodox believers but if an eastern Catholic communes...not so much...just a bit of 'false ecumenism'...

You are learning fast!!
 

LBK

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elijahmaria said:
LBK said:
and all RC faithful are allowed to commune in any Orthodox church that will serve them
An Orthodox priest who does this will be subject to discipline which could involve defrocking. So, the Roman law which allows this is, at best, meaningless, and, at worst, subversion.
And then what weasel words do you use to explain away the fact that inter-communion IS practiced and there are not consequences?
Proof, please, including statements from official Orthodox sources (synodal or patriarchal) which state that this is acceptable.
 

PJ

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LBK said:
and all RC faithful are allowed to commune in any Orthodox church that will serve them
An Orthodox priest who does this will be subject to discipline which could involve defrocking.
I understand, but I want to clarify the position of the Roman Communion because many people on this forum seem to misunderstand it. (And it was the original question on this thread -- for whatever that's worth after 6 years.  8))

"If necessity requires it or genuine spiritual advantage suggests it and provided that the danger of error or indifferentism is avoided, it is permitted for Catholic Christian faithful, for whom it is physically or morally impossible to approach a Catholic minister, to receive the sacraments of penance, the Eucharist and anointing of the sick from non-Catholic ministers, in whose Churches these sacraments are valid."

Notice there are 4 conditions embedded in that statement:

- "If necessity requires it or genuine spiritual advantage suggests it"
- "provided that the danger of error or indifferentism is avoided"
- "... for whom it is physically or morally impossible to approach a Catholic minister"
- "... in whose Churches these sacraments are valid"
 

elijahmaria

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Peter J said:
LBK said:
and all RC faithful are allowed to commune in any Orthodox church that will serve them
An Orthodox priest who does this will be subject to discipline which could involve defrocking.
I understand, but I want to clarify the position of the Roman Communion because many people on this forum seem to misunderstand it. (And it was the original question on this thread -- for whatever that's worth after 6 years.  8))

"If necessity requires it or genuine spiritual advantage suggests it and provided that the danger of error or indifferentism is avoided, it is permitted for Catholic Christian faithful, for whom it is physically or morally impossible to approach a Catholic minister, to receive the sacraments of penance, the Eucharist and anointing of the sick from non-Catholic ministers, in whose Churches these sacraments are valid."

Notice there are 4 conditions embedded in that statement:

- "If necessity requires it or genuine spiritual advantage suggests it"
- "provided that the danger of error or indifferentism is avoided"
- "... for whom it is physically or morally impossible to approach a Catholic minister"
- "... in whose Churches these sacraments are valid"
I have noted before in this section of OC.net that the phrase "for the salvation of my soul" is a petition that is heard by Orthodox and Catholic bishops alike, when that statement is make with good reason and apparent need.  Not all Orthodox bishops will yield to the need for a Catholic penitent and prospective communicant, but it has happened, it is happening and I expect it will continue happening in more than a few places and over time.

PS: thanks to Peter for his contribution above.
 

LBK

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LBK said:
elijahmaria said:
LBK said:
and all RC faithful are allowed to commune in any Orthodox church that will serve them
An Orthodox priest who does this will be subject to discipline which could involve defrocking. So, the Roman law which allows this is, at best, meaningless, and, at worst, subversion.
And then what weasel words do you use to explain away the fact that inter-communion IS practiced and there are not consequences?
Proof, please, including statements from official Orthodox sources (synodal or patriarchal) which state that this is acceptable.
We're waiting, EM. Or are you going to weasel out again?
 

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This link mentions how the Roman Catholic Church views the Polish National Church, with some details about the Orthodox church in the canon discussion.  It is viewed that both  ordination and apostolic succession are valid.

http://www.ewtn.com/vnews/getstory.asp?number=117963
 

username!

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elijahmaria said:
LBK said:
and all RC faithful are allowed to commune in any Orthodox church that will serve them
An Orthodox priest who does this will be subject to discipline which could involve defrocking. So, the Roman law which allows this is, at best, meaningless, and, at worst, subversion.
And then what weasel words do you use to explain away the fact that inter-communion IS practiced and there are not consequences?
EM, please provide some proof as to what you are saying here about intercommunion you have 24 hours to comply -username! Section Moderator of the Orthodox Catholic board
 

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username! said:
elijahmaria said:
LBK said:
and all RC faithful are allowed to commune in any Orthodox church that will serve them
An Orthodox priest who does this will be subject to discipline which could involve defrocking. So, the Roman law which allows this is, at best, meaningless, and, at worst, subversion.
And then what weasel words do you use to explain away the fact that inter-communion IS practiced and there are not consequences?
The link I just posted does have the canon law posted for when a Roman CAtholic can receive the Eucharist from a non- Roman Catholic, but "valid" church. I'm on my IPhone and I can't cut and paste right now. But it does say the reasons why a Roman Catholic could intercomune and one is when it is spiritually profitable.
 

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Adela said:
username! said:
elijahmaria said:
LBK said:
and all RC faithful are allowed to commune in any Orthodox church that will serve them
An Orthodox priest who does this will be subject to discipline which could involve defrocking. So, the Roman law which allows this is, at best, meaningless, and, at worst, subversion.
And then what weasel words do you use to explain away the fact that inter-communion IS practiced and there are not consequences?
The link I just posted does have the canon law posted for when a Roman CAtholic can receive the Eucharist from a non- Roman Catholic, but "valid" church. I'm on my IPhone and I can't cut and paste right now. But it does say the reasons why a Roman Catholic could intercomune and one is when it is spiritually profitable.

Oh sorry, just realized you want Orthodox sources to say this is ok.  Yeah, probably hard to find!
 

username!

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From a moderator standpoint what I see is EM trying to substantiate that intercommunion is an on going happening more than just someone receiving at an integral moment in their life.  That is why I am asking her for the source because we are all aware of what the RCC says in it's missals and such. -username! section moderator
 

elijahmaria

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elijahmaria said:
Peter J said:
LBK said:
and all RC faithful are allowed to commune in any Orthodox church that will serve them
An Orthodox priest who does this will be subject to discipline which could involve defrocking.
I understand, but I want to clarify the position of the Roman Communion because many people on this forum seem to misunderstand it. (And it was the original question on this thread -- for whatever that's worth after 6 years.  8))

"If necessity requires it or genuine spiritual advantage suggests it and provided that the danger of error or indifferentism is avoided, it is permitted for Catholic Christian faithful, for whom it is physically or morally impossible to approach a Catholic minister, to receive the sacraments of penance, the Eucharist and anointing of the sick from non-Catholic ministers, in whose Churches these sacraments are valid."

Notice there are 4 conditions embedded in that statement:

- "If necessity requires it or genuine spiritual advantage suggests it"
- "provided that the danger of error or indifferentism is avoided"
- "... for whom it is physically or morally impossible to approach a Catholic minister"
- "... in whose Churches these sacraments are valid"
I have noted before in this section of OC.net that the phrase "for the salvation of my soul" is a petition that is heard by Orthodox and Catholic bishops alike, when that statement is make with good reason and apparent need.  Not all Orthodox bishops will yield to the need for a Catholic penitent and prospective communicant, but it has happened, it is happening and I expect it will continue happening in more than a few places and over time.

PS: thanks to Peter for his contribution above.
There are Orthodox on this very OC.net who have acknowledged that there are places in the Orthodox world where intercommunion is commonplace.

Also I have personal knowledge of cases where Catholics commune in Orthodoxy for the good of their souls.  I've had a personal interest in this for some time which is how I know that some Orthodox bishops allow and some do not.  Those nearest to me and my circumstances do not.

Beyond this I am not able to provide what you ask for: proof.

I suspect I will be punished accordingly.

M.
 

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Adela said:
The link I just posted does have the canon law posted for when a Roman CAtholic can receive the Eucharist from a non- Roman Catholic, but "valid" church. I'm on my IPhone and I can't cut and paste right now. But it does say the reasons why a Roman Catholic could intercomune and one is when it is spiritually profitable.
I think this is the paragraph you are referring to:

"§2. Whenever necessity requires it or true spiritual advantage suggests it, and provided that danger of error or of indifferentism is avoided, the Christian faithful for whom it is physically or morally impossible to approach a Catholic minister are permitted to receive the sacraments of penance, Eucharist, and anointing of the sick from non-Catholic ministers in whose Churches these sacraments are valid."
(emphasis added)
 
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