Old vs. New Calendar?

ignatius

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username! said:
What was Father's points that struck you to agree on?
Grace and Peace username!,

"username!"  :laugh: I laugh every time I read your name. You have a great sense of honour! God Bless!

I guess what first struck me was how sincere Father was that it was important to observe the great feast on the proper days... their tie in with the 'Prayers of the Dead' and the synergy with the Jewish Lunar Calendar... and how the Gregorian Calendar fails to do this.


Your thoughts?
 

greekischristian

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ignatius said:
Grace and Peace username!,

"username!"  :laugh: I laugh every time I read your name. You have a great sense of honour! God Bless!

I guess what first struck me was how sincere Father was that it was important to observe the great feast on the proper days... their tie in with the 'Prayers of the Dead' and the synergy with the Jewish Lunar Calendar... and how the Gregorian Calendar fails to do this.


Your thoughts?
Interesting, considering the reasoning for fixing pascha as it was at Nicea.

From the synod we read,

It was declared to be particularly unworthy for this, the
holiest of all festivals, to follow the custom [the calculation] of the
Jews, who had soiled their hands with the most fearful of crimes, and
whose minds were blinded.  In rejecting their custom, we may
transmit to our descendants the legitimate mode of celebrating Easter,
which we have observed from the time of the Saviour's Passion to the
present day [according to the day of the week].  We ought not,
therefore, to have anything in common with the Jews, for the Saviour
has shown us another way; our worship follows a more legitimate and
more convenient course (the order of the days of the week); and
consequently, in unanimously adopting this mode, we desire, dearest
brethren, to separate ourselves from the detestable company of the
Jews, for it is truly shameful for us to hear them boast that without
their direction we could not keep this feast.  How can they be in the
right, they who, after the death of the Saviour, have no longer been
led by reason but by wild violence, as their delusion may urge them?

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf214.txt
 

stanley123

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greekischristian said:
This time we're correct, the Revised Julian calendar took into account astronomical calculations that were not included in the Gregorian Calendar. As we will be inline with scientifc observations this time, it's up to the Latins to change their calendar.
OK. Congratulations on that.
Blessings.
 

greekischristian

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stanley123 said:
OK. Congratulations on that.
Blessings.
Well, that's the advantage of having an extra 300 years of scientific observations.

Fortunately, the simple addition of an extra day probably won't be as big of an issue for you as it was for us. (Especially in 800 years.)
 

Ebor

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buzuxi said:
Meletios connection with the british government, freemasonry, and close relations to the anglicans,
and from another thread, emphasis added:

the heresiarch Meletios Metaxakis who was both an anglican minister while simutaneously being a patriarch.

??? ??? ???

Ebor
 

buzuxi

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Ebor said:
and from another thread, emphasis added:


??? ??? ???

Ebor
The circumstantial evidence does point to this. You can send a pm to me if you like to elaborate.
 

Veniamin

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buzuxi said:
The circumstantial evidence does point to this. You can send a pm to me if you like to elaborate.
Given that you made the claim in public, why don't you share the evidence with all of us?
 

Ebor

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I am in agreement with Veniamin.  The statements that I quoted were made in on a public forum.  The latter one in particular is quite serious and, I'm sorry, to me very dubious.  Why should such a momentous and public accusation against both an EP and my Church be "supported" on private?

How is that fair to  the late EP who deserves to be treated properly regarding evidence even if one does not think much of him or something he did?  
:-\

Ebor
 

Pravoslavbob

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ignatius said:
Grace and Peace username!,
....and the synergy with the Jewish Lunar Calendar... and how the Gregorian Calendar fails to do this.
I used to think that synergy with the Jewish calendar was important, until I realised that the Jews changed their calendar.  The calendar that the Jews have used since the early centuries after the Resurrection of Our Lord is the one that the Julian tries to correspond with, and this calendar is quite different from the previously used Jewish calendar, including the way in which Passover is calculated, and it seems to be calculated now in a questionable way.  (The previous Jewish calendar was the one in use at the time of Christ's passion.)  So it's really not important that our calendar correspond to the Jewish one, unless you happen to think that we should follow the Jews whenever they change their calendar, whether the change is appropriate or not.
 

Keble

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buzuxi said:
The circumstantial evidence does point to this. You can send a pm to me if you like to elaborate.
Theoretically a priest or deacon in Greece would be under the jurisdiction of the bishop of Convocation of American Churches in Europe. These can be looked up. Anglicans have, as a rule, very strict systems for moving from bishop to bishop and place to place. We have these things called records. If he was ever ordained by us, it is possible to find out where and who by. Of course, since I'm pretty sure that by that time we recognized his orders, we wouldn't have re-ordained/consecrated him anyway, but that's another quibble.
 

buzuxi

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hard to do since i would like to email some links which explain his controversial acts..

But the gist is, he done things with anglicans that seem to go beyond a simple relationship. For instance in 1921 while visiting America he vested and took part in the anglican liturgy.

If i walk into Divine Liturgy one sunday and see a priest i never seen before, concelebratiing, i would assume he is Orthodox, likewise with the reverse. In the case of Meletios, the greek amabassador to washington contacted the Church of Greece, relayed the facts and asked what the heck was going on. The Synod of Greece opened an investigation which deposed him in Dec 9, 1921 for schism and numerous canonical violations. He was secretly and uncanonically elected to the EP alittle before the Church of Greece issued its statement.
In the pan-orthodox congress of 1923, the anglican bishop Charles Gore sat at the patriatchs right side and took part in the proceedings, being closer to the patriarch than his own Synod.  Once again, if Meletios was not an anglican, i dont see how this could take place. How did he know him so well, and why let him take part in an Orthodox council?

but it gets better, he recognized anglican orders and asked all the other Churches to do the same, the encyclical he issued claimed the Orthodox Church has always recognized them from the time of the 16th century anglican bishop Matthew Parker (One of the 'fathers' of Anglicanism). (the document never mentions 'right-belief' as being a pre-requisite for apostolic succession). Finally in 1930 while Patriarch of Alexandria he led a delegation to the anglican Lambeth Conference and lead talks for full unity.   
Many documents can be found at the anglican website "Project Canterbury". Also many Orthodox documents socumenting the same.
 

ozgeorge

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buzuxi said:
hard to do since i would like to email some links which explain his controversial acts..

But the gist is, he done things with anglicans that seem to go beyond a simple relationship. For instance in 1921 while visiting America he vested and took part in the anglican liturgy.

If i walk into Divine Liturgy one sunday and see a priest i never seen before, concelebratiing, i would assume he is Orthodox, likewise with the reverse. In the case of Meletios, the greek amabassador to washington contacted the Church of Greece, relayed the facts and asked what the heck was going on. The Synod of Greece opened an investigation which deposed him in Dec 9, 1921 for schism and numerous canonical violations. He was secretly and uncanonically elected to the EP alittle before the Church of Greece issued its statement.
In the pan-orthodox congress of 1923, the anglican bishop Charles Gore sat at the patriatchs right side and took part in the proceedings, being closer to the patriarch than his own Synod.  Once again, if Meletios was not an anglican, i dont see how this could take place. How did he know him so well, and why let him take part in an Orthodox council?

but it gets better, he recognized anglican orders and asked all the other Churches to do the same, the encyclical he issued claimed the Orthodox Church has always recognized them from the time of the 16th century anglican bishop Matthew Parker (One of the 'fathers' of Anglicanism). (the document never mentions 'right-belief' as being a pre-requisite for apostolic succession). Finally in 1930 while Patriarch of Alexandria he led a delegation to the anglican Lambeth Conference and lead talks for full unity.   
Many documents can be found at the anglican website "Project Canterbury". Also many Orthodox documents socumenting the same.
This is merely more claims. It does not constitute evidence.
Please provide the evidence for your claims as has been requested of you.
 

buzuxi

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Why would i make things up? Im an ethnic greek, a cradle Orthodox, faithful to Orthodox Christianity. I'm just listing things which are common knowledge amongst greeks, who know the history. I'm trying to wake the laity, to recognize this controversial figure and reject his reforms and get on with healing the schisms that have surfaced. Theres nothing like family and relatives fractured, celebrating the same feasts on differing days, yet both Orthodox. While one side of the family is baking and enjoying their pastries, the other is still fasting, and cany come together as one Orthodox family. Quite sad.

And i know many in here do know what im talking about, and know about these facts. These are not secrets. What is my opinion on the other hand is based on the circumstantial evidence: that on the anglican side, i will have to assume they recognized him as one of their own, considering the close relationship with their church and the taking part of their liturgy during his stay in America (among the other things i've mentioned and havent mentioned). 

Am i allowed to post outside links on this forum? I'll be glad to provide them.
 

greekischristian

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ozgeorge said:
This is merely more claims. It does not constitute evidence.
Please provide the evidence for your claims as has been requested of you.
Not only that, making the jump from His All-Holiness having Anglican friends and being close to the Anglicans (he did study in England, after all, it makes sense that he would have good Anglican friends), to his being an Anglican priest would take some serious evidence; like an ordination date and location with witnesses and documentation.

It just doesn't fit into His All-Holiness' personality; His All-Holiness always wanted to be first in his endeavours. Considering this, why would he, a Patriarch of the Church, bring himself down to the level of a priest amongst the Anglicans? Just doesn't fit.
 

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Whether as a priest or bishop, i do not know, but praying the anglican liturgy together with other anglican clergy at their church, could only assume Metaxakis was one with them and the anglican clergy thought likewise.
 

PeterTheAleut

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buzuxi said:
Whether as a priest or bishop, i do not know, but praying the anglican liturgy together with other anglican clergy at their church, could only assume Metaxakis was one with them and the anglican clergy thought likewise.
More of the same personal observations.  Please give us the information we requested to substantiate your wild claims.
 

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PeterTheAleut said:
If they are relevant to this discussion, yes.
Thank-you

This link is an article written by Fr. Srboliub Miletech of the Serbian Orthodox Church who undertook an investigation of this patriarch, The article concerns itself mostly with jurisdictionalism in Orthodoxy which he blames this patriarch as being the root of it:

http://www.orthodoxengland.btinternet.co.uk/meletios.htm

This link is the encyclical which recognized Anglican Orders issued by this patriarch, and that these orders have been legit since Matthew Parker:


http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucgbmxd/patriarc.htm
 
 
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