Ordination of Women in the Orthodox Church

serb1389

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I have avoided posting on this thread since the ordination of women is today relegated to protestants only. The subject for orthodox is mute in this life time.
So are you saying that by not talking about it, it will go away? 

What is wrong about talking about issues?  Isn't this a very stereotypically "catholic" way of approaching God and theology?  By not talking about it?  I thought that the Orthodox church was one of discussion and being open with one another. 

Maybe you have some alternate ideas...?
 

greekischristian

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Amdetsion said:
I think I get your point.

I have experienced some really bad leadership in my local parish.

But if people feel that they can find some "reasonable institution" to replace the church somebody should point out to them that they have jumped out of the pan and into the fire.

There is NO "reasonable institution" outside the Church.
Ah yes, the Church has a monopoly on reason? I dont think so... ::)

There are many reasonable institutions outside the Church.

Also The Church does not "adapt".

We adapt to the Church.

If the Church is in a constant state of adapting than it is not orthodox. Orthodox means Correct doctrine. It has no place with adaptationist thinking (not that this is who you are). I find this thinking prevalent among protestants and other people who refuses to worship God in spirit and truth. People who want things their way. 'Arm chair Christians'. This type would prefer that communion be sent to them by Fedex.

Again I think i get what you are saying but I feel that we can not give in to people who are not willing to 'give in to the church'.
That's a nice little theory and it really makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside...but it's inconsonant with the history and experience of the Church, time to wake up and deal with reality.

I have avoided posting on this thread since the ordination of women is today relegated to protestants only. The subject for orthodox is mute in this life time.
Not so, many bishops and theologians have come out saying that now is the time to begin discussing and considering the issue.
 

Amdetsion

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greekischristian said:
Ah yes, the Church has a monopoly on reason? I dont think so... ::)

There are many reasonable institutions outside the Church.

That's a nice little theory and it really makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside...but it's inconsonant with the history and experience of the Church, time to wake up and deal with reality.

Not so, many bishops and theologians have come out saying that now is the time to begin discussing and considering the issue.

Yes!
The Holy Church is the repository 'the keeper' of ALL reason and understanding in the universe.
There is not any place on earth that possess more reason and understanding than the Christ' Holy Universal Church which today Orthodox in the Lord.

"History and experience of the Church"....Any history the church has is ours (human beings; sinners). And if there is any inconsistency anywhere it is with us (the churches devoted sinners). Sin is all we are truly capable of. We are very consistent at WITH sin. The Church is founded by God in Christ Jesus (who is perfect and consistent)our Lord and savior. If we follow His commandments, His pure word, His instruction in our lives we are rich in truth. And truth need no adjustment.

But of course we can not do that since we have so much smarts today.

Bishops in the west may be looking at this issue. Where ever this issue is being discussed I feel comfortable in saying that you or I will not see any women on any alters in our life time even if we live to be a million years old. It is talk for talks sake in my opinion.




 

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A non-issue except for those who believe in spiritual and other kinds of evolution (Berdyaev et al).  As St Jude says: "that you should earnestly contend for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints".  Since Pentecost (remember this Feast?) all has been revealed.  The Most Holy Theotokos is our example of how a woman should be.
 

greekischristian

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Amdetsion said:
Bishops in the west may be looking at this issue. Where ever this issue is being discussed I feel comfortable in saying that you or I will not see any women on any alters in our life time even if we live to be a million years old. It is talk for talks sake in my opinion.
Want to put money on that one? There was a time when the exact same rhetoric was comming out of the Anglican Church...and look at those naysayers now, most have become schismatics.
 

greekischristian

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ozgeorge said:
Virgin Mothers? It ain't gonna happen.
Well, it could...with advancements in cloning technology, it's quite possible for a mother to have a child with no biological father and without sexual intercourse, entirely of her own genome. Perhaps this is what Christ truly wants us to strive for, an end to sexual reproduction and a procreation of the human race based on cloning and genetic engineering technology. I'm glad this discussion has lead to some sound ethical conclusions that we can all support for the good of science and for the advancement of the human race. ;)
 

ozgeorge

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greekischristian said:
Well, it could...with advancements in cloning technology, it's quite possible for a mother to have a child with no biological father and without sexual intercourse, entirely of her own genome. Perhaps this is what Christ truly wants us to strive for, an end to sexual reproduction and a procreation of the human race based on cloning and genetic engineering technology. I'm glad this discussion has lead to some sound ethical conclusions that we can all support for the good of science and for the advancement of the human race. ;)
I bet if all the men who think this would be a good idea realised that cloning to produce Virgin Motherhood can only produce female exact copies of the mother (since there is no Y chromosome), and thus, the male of our species would cease to exist, they'd stop applauding!
 

greekischristian

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ozgeorge said:
I bet if all the men who think this would be a good idea realised that cloning to produce Virgin Motherhood can only produce female exact copies of the mother (since there is no Y chromosome), and thus, the male of our species would cease to exist, they'd stop applauding!
Ah, but we're slowly becomming more sophisticated in our ability to manipulate these eggs prior to gestation. In time I have no doubt that we could manipulate the dna to create male or female, or perhaps even an androgynous third gender that will include both male and female attributes and replace them both. Of course, this would deny us the evolutionary benifits of sexual reproduction, but if we're micromanaging our reproduction and changing it on a regular basis anyway, the evolutionary benifits would be of no consequence.
 

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greekischristian said:
Want to put money on that one? There was a time when the exact same rhetoric was comming out of the Anglican Church...and look at those naysayers now, most have become schismatics.
Well, they were already in schism anyway. Besides, it's Anglicanism, not the Church Catholic. They're a democracy. And it's done them a lot of good, hasn't it?
 

greekischristian

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Well, heck, if we want to get technical and all, all the western churches are in schism. ;) You may believe that I should look upon Rome with more favour than Canterbury...but I dont. In many ways the Anglicans corrected the uncanonically excesses of Rome, in other ways they probably went a bit too far.
 

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greekischristian said:
Want to put money on that one? There was a time when the exact same rhetoric was comming out of the Anglican Church...and look at those naysayers now, most have become schismatics.
"ANGLICAN CHURCH" ????

ARE YOU KIDDING?

(I AM SCARED OF YOUR ANSWER)

LOOK...THE 'ANGLO-KINS' ARE SCHISMATICS WHICH ARE FROM SCHISMATICS WHO ARE FROM SCHISMATICS WHO ARE FROM THE ROMAN CATHOLIC WHO ARE FROM THE HOLY CHURCH OF CHRIST.

One schismatic deserves the next. These people have no idea where the will be next.

I AM TALKING ABOUT THE ORTHODOX CHURCH ONLY!!!

THE UNIVERSAL APOSTOLIC CHURCH ONLY....WHICH IS ORTHODOX IN THE LORD.

I EXPECT ANY AND EVERYTHING FROM 'ANGLO-KINS' AND ALL OTHERS WHO ARE OUTSIDE THE CHURCH.

 

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lubeltri

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greekischristian said:
Well, heck, if we want to get technical and all, all the western churches are in schism. ;) You may believe that I should look upon Rome with more favour than Canterbury...but I dont.
You seem to me a peculiar but amiable blend of theological modernism and parochially Greek Orthodoxy. So your view on Rome vs. Canterbury is not among my chief concerns.

(I assume one of those things you believe the Anglicans have done better is the "ordination" of priestesses? I suppose, in your view, the heretical Protestant groups seem to be more receptive of God's desire for priestesses and universal salvation. What does it say about Catholicism and Orthodoxy that both churches have been least receptive to these innovations?)
 

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Friul said:
Ah, Katharine Jefferts Schori. My favorite quotation of hers comes from an interview she gave with the New York Times last year:

"Episcopalians tend to be better-educated and tend to reproduce at lower rates than some other denominations. Roman Catholics and Mormons both have theological reasons for producing lots of children."
 

greekischristian

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lubeltri said:
You seem to me a peculiar but amiable blend of theological modernism and parochially Greek Orthodoxy. So your view on Rome vs. Canterbury is not among my chief concerns.
Ah, but in this regard you'll probably find that most Orthodox agree with me.

(I assume one of those things you believe the Anglicans have done better is the "ordination" of priestesses? I suppose, in your view, the heretical Protestant groups seem to be more receptive of God's desire for priestesses and universal salvation. What does it say about Catholicism and Orthodoxy that both churches have been least receptive to these innovations?)
We'll we've been suffering for half a millennium under T**kish despotism, not the best context for doing theology and engaging culture. I don't know what Rome's excuse is.

lubeltri said:
Ah, Katharine Jefferts Schori. My favorite quotation of hers comes from an interview she gave with the New York Times last year:

"Episcopalians tend to be better-educated and tend to reproduce at lower rates than some other denominations. Roman Catholics and Mormons both have theological reasons for producing lots of children."
Ummm, so what exactly is wrong with that quote, since I am assuming you mean that you like it sarcastically. Sounds true enough to me...and the two, more education and lower reproduction rates, are generally related.
 

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Friul said:
Dr Penny Jamieson
Katharine Jefferts Schori (Episcopal)


Even this?  http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1045021.stm
Fruil

WOW!

Are you trying to qualify my point?

I hope so since after reading your URL's. The articles sighted are directly on point.

I will admit I am shocked beyond shocked regarding the sex change situation.

Thank God for the Orthodox Church...Amen.

I feel sorry for people who stuck with so much weirdness in the world masquerading as Christ's Holy Church.

Thanks.

P.S.

I think this is the kind of weird and freaky future that greekischristian is hoping the Orthodox Church stumbles down. I pray he and his supporters are wrong.

 

greekischristian

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Amdetsion said:
I will admit I am shocked beyond shocked regarding the sex change situation.
'Those who are easily shocked should be shocked more often.' -- Mae West

(This has to be my most useful sig line yet.)
 
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