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Oriental Orthodox and Roman Catholic Dialogue

Menas17

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One of the main topics discussed in the dialogue was Eucharistic intercommunion between the two. My question is: How would this be theologically possible?

“On the first day, the discussion was on Eucharistic intercommunion, where Archbishop Kawak gave a short presentation about the common declaration signed by Rome and the Syriac Orthodox Church of Antioch.”

Intercommunion suggest mutual recognition of beliefs. Last I checked the OO don’t agree to papal infallibility, etc.

I understand that in the Middle East there is intercommunion in certain instances between the EO-OO, but, the two are much closer theologically than the EO-RC or OO-RC.

I’m just curious from the OO perspective how intercommunion with Roman Catholics is justified.
 

Irish45

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One of the main topics discussed in the dialogue was Eucharistic intercommunion between the two. My question is: How would this be theologically possible?

“On the first day, the discussion was on Eucharistic intercommunion, where Archbishop Kawak gave a short presentation about the common declaration signed by Rome and the Syriac Orthodox Church of Antioch.”

Intercommunion suggest mutual recognition of beliefs. Last I checked the OO don’t agree to papal infallibility, etc.

I understand that in the Middle East there is intercommunion in certain instances between the EO-OO, but, the two are much closer theologically than the EO-RC or OO-RC.

I’m just curious from the OO perspective how intercommunion with Roman Catholics is justified.
I’m interested in some of the OO responses as well. I’d be shock if they agreed to intercommunion.
 

peterfarrington

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I am not in favour of intercommunion yet, I think that there is more to be done, a lot more. But not every difference of opinion requires a breach of communion. The papal doctrines were held in Rome for a long long time while there was still communion between East and West and it required no more than that the East ignore the Papal Claims.

Many of the theological issues are not insurmountable. It is the practical things that are more difficult such as the almost complete loss of fasting, and the degeneration of the monastic life, and the charismatic movement, together with the lack of jurisdictional integrity for the Eastern Churches.

In extremis I do not have a great problem with RCs receiving communion, not as a matter of habit but in those situations where it seems justified by circumstances, and when a "formal" RC becomes a "practical" OO.
 

bwallace23350

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I was not aware of Roman monastic life going by the wayside. Could you give more details on that? I live pretty near a Catholic monastery and had hoped to visit one day soon.
 

melkite

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I've always wondered why EOs see themselves as closer to the OOs than RCs theologically. RCs are Chalcedonian; OOs are not. EOs and OOs may have come to an understanding that they both mean the same thing when talking about persons and essence of the Trinity, but RCs and OOs have come to that same understanding. Both may disagree with Rome on the papal doctrines, but when it comes to what divides EOs from OOs theologically, RCs and EOs have always professed the same belief.
 

peterfarrington

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Much of Roman Catholic monasticism has become infected with liberalism, and monks and nuns have abandoned the habit and have become liberal activists. Not all. But many. Monasticism has become identified with education, social care, politics, social agendas etc rather than with prayer. The proliferation of orders with different focuses and not always related to prayer has tended to make monasteries part of an organisation.
 

copticorthodoxboy

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I've always wondered why EOs see themselves as closer to the OOs than RCs theologically. RCs are Chalcedonian; OOs are not. EOs and OOs may have come to an understanding that they both mean the same thing when talking about persons and essence of the Trinity, but RCs and OOs have come to that same understanding. Both may disagree with Rome on the papal doctrines, but when it comes to what divides EOs from OOs theologically, RCs and EOs have always professed the same belief.
Perhaps an oversimplification (and coming from a "pan-Orthodox" website so there may be some bias):

I have made an effort to make a minor comparison of EO and OO Churches with the Roman Catholic Church. This is a very limited comparison and does not explain everything in detail. I have not mentioned Christology in the below table either.
Preview quote added. --Ainnir
 
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Samn!

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In my experience, both the Syriac Orthodox and the Armenians are strongly inclined towards a policy of open communion for all baptized persons, so the idea that intercommunion of the laity implies doctrinal agreement wouldn't apply.
 

Irish45

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Much of Roman Catholic monasticism has become infected with liberalism, and monks and nuns have abandoned the habit and have become liberal activists. Not all. But many. Monasticism has become identified with education, social care, politics, social agendas etc rather than with prayer. The proliferation of orders with different focuses and not always related to prayer has tended to make monasteries part of an organisation.
It seems that even the RC is polarized now. It’s a shame because it could be fixed if we had Bishop’s willing to stand by the Catholic faith. Unfortunately, I believe communist have infiltrated the RC and they are trying to undermine her.

Just look at this Franciscan Priest’s Twitter feed, it will make you sick to your stomach. This man’s Catholicism is like a different faith entirely. Thankfully, it’s the traditional Catholic religious orders that are experiencing growth. The faithful aren’t responding to the lefts hollow faith.

 

melkite

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Perhaps an oversimplification (and coming from a "pan-Orthodox" website so there may be some bias):

Most of these are a difference in non-doctrinal practices, so shouldn't be an impediment to unity. All of the practical matters, and most of the doctrinal ones, both the EO and OO are in full agreement with the ECs. So if the EOs or OOs can't justify communion or reunion with ECs based on believing and doing the same thing, then how can they justify it with each other?
 

Katechon

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I've always wondered why EOs see themselves as closer to the OOs than RCs theologically. RCs are Chalcedonian; OOs are not. EOs and OOs may have come to an understanding that they both mean the same thing when talking about persons and essence of the Trinity, but RCs and OOs have come to that same understanding. Both may disagree with Rome on the papal doctrines, but when it comes to what divides EOs from OOs theologically, RCs and EOs have always professed the same belief.
The oral profession of the dogmatics of the Seven Ecumenical Councils is meaningless when your whole theological scheme hollows out it's terminology. There is a certain organic closeness between Orientals and us in terms of ecclesiology since they do retain a priesthood and a mostly intact Liturgy, and never adapted something as utterly blasphemous as jurisdictional primacy and papal infallibility, in my opinion this closeness is not well reflected on a theological level however.
 

copticorthodoxboy

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Most of these are a difference in non-doctrinal practices, so shouldn't be an impediment to unity. All of the practical matters, and most of the doctrinal ones, both the EO and OO are in full agreement with the ECs. So if the EOs or OOs can't justify communion or reunion with ECs based on believing and doing the same thing, then how can they justify it with each other?
I'd say I agree. The OO community has a wider array of liturgical practices allowed while maintaining full-communion with sister churches. Following a number of joint statements on a shared Christology, to me the biggest issue between OO-RC and EO-RC remains the role of the papacy/the doctrine of papal infallibility (granted the schism between the OO and Catholic communities ruptured long before this became official dogma for Catholics). . As a former RC, I personally find nothing heretical with Eucharistic Adoration, the Stations of the Cross, unleavened bread, etc.
 
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