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Oriental Orthodox Liturgical texts

minasoliman

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dzheremi said:
In looking around, it appears that this topic has been covered before, complete with links, so perhaps reviewing the existing thread on OO prayer books would help. I thought this thread was meant to be limited to liturgical texts.
Perhaps the 2 threads should be merged and then made into a sticky
 

Salpy

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By popular demand, I've merged the two topics and made the new thread a sticky.

Good idea.  :)
 

minasoliman

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Salpy said:
By popular demand, I've merged the two topics and made the new thread a sticky.

Good idea.   :)
:)
 

dhinuus

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Suryoyutho said:
sheenj said:
Suryoyutho said:
Do you know someplace where we can find the full sh'himo with hymns? The link you just posted only has the abridged prayers for each hour.
In can find it in Syriac only: http://www.soc-wus.org/worship/prayer.htm
The English tanslation of the Sheema is available at
http://www.lulu.com/shop/dale-a-johnson/daily-prayers-from-the-language-of-jesus/paperback/product-1476571.html
The hymns are translated as prose though. They are not translated as hymns set to the original Syriac meter.
 

sheenj

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dhinuus said:
Suryoyutho said:
sheenj said:
Suryoyutho said:
Do you know someplace where we can find the full sh'himo with hymns? The link you just posted only has the abridged prayers for each hour.
In can find it in Syriac only: http://www.soc-wus.org/worship/prayer.htm
The English tanslation of the Sheema is available at
http://www.lulu.com/shop/dale-a-johnson/daily-prayers-from-the-language-of-jesus/paperback/product-1476571.html
The hymns are translated as prose though. They are not translated as hymns set to the original Syriac meter.
Thanks, but its just not the same as singing the hymns in their proper tones :(. I guess I'll stick to the abridged version I have right now.
 

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Melthodhaye have just put up their first video of the Syriac Orthodox prayers.

Prayer of the Ninth Hour - Sunday

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWJZVSUJHVE
 

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Is there an english translation of the coptic liturgy? I'd love to read it.
 

Dominika

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Cyrillic said:
Is there an english translation of the coptic liturgy? I'd love to read it.
http://www.copticchurch.net/topics/liturgy/index.html - Liturgy of St. Basil, Liturgy of St. Cyril, Liturgy of St. Gregory
 

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Dominika said:
Cyrillic said:
Is there an english translation of the coptic liturgy? I'd love to read it.
http://www.copticchurch.net/topics/liturgy/index.html - Liturgy of St. Basil, Liturgy of St. Cyril, Liturgy of St. Gregory
Thanks!
 

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I can't recall if this was linked here yet:

http://www.agpia.org/

It's the Coptic Agpia for mobile phones.
 

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This is probably a long shot, but does anyone know where I could find an English translation of the phenqitho? From an initial Google search, it seems that it has fallen out of popular use, and thus has not been translated, but you never know. Even an abridged version would be nice. I'm planning to purchase Bede Griffiths' translation of the Sh'himo when I have the funds.

Pray for me, a sinner.
 

Mor Ephrem

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CharalambisMakarios said:
This is probably a long shot, but does anyone know where I could find an English translation of the phenqitho?
LOL.  AFAIK, it doesn't exist.  The closest thing to it is a three volume adaptation published by the (Syro-Malankara Catholic) monastery "Kurishumala Ashram" in Kerala.  I say adaptation rather than translation because it is a version intended for use in that particular monastery and so it has its own quirks.  You can probably obtain it from them. 

From an initial Google search, it seems that it has fallen out of popular use, and thus has not been translated, but you never know. Even an abridged version would be nice.
I don't think it's fallen out of use per se, just that wherever it is used it is used in Syriac.  It more or less fell out of use in India during the transition to vernacular liturgy (if not before). 

I'm planning to purchase Bede Griffiths' translation of the Sh'himo when I have the funds.
SEERI publishes a book called Awsar Slawoto which is basically Griffiths' translation of the Sh'himo with the Syriac text on the facing page.  You might be able to order it from them and I imagine even with the international posting it may be more affordable than buying from Gorgias Press.  :p
 

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Where does one actually purchase it? I see it listed on the SEERI website (they seem like a really cool organization), but no link to actually order it.
 

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I emailed them awhile back and have heard no reply. Looking for other purchase options and not finding them.
 

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ialmisry said:
Btw, has anyone ever seen a Coptic Agpeya in Coptic? I've only seen English and Arabic.
I haven't seen a coptic agpeya book either BUT, each hours is composed of the psalms, a gospel, litanies and and absolution. There are also some other prayers like the trisagion, the intro to the Creed and the Creed, the Praise of the Angels, Hail to Mary, Graciously O Lord, and the into to the midnight prayer. The psalms and gospels can be found in coptic, most of the litanies can be found in old books specially during Holy Week and Pentecost, and the other prayers can be found in the liturgy and midnight praise. All we need to find are the absolutions.:)

Dominika said:
Cyrillic said:
Is there an english translation of the coptic liturgy? I'd love to read it.
http://www.copticchurch.net/topics/liturgy/index.html - Liturgy of St. Basil, Liturgy of St. Cyril, Liturgy of St. Gregory
I recommend: http://tasbeha.org/hymn_library/cat/203
 

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I just discovered a fantastic resource for the Syriac Orthodox liturgy: https://sites.google.com/site/syrianorthodox/

They have the full Shima except for the Lilio, or Midnight Office/Matins, with the services for each day of the week.  This is much more content than the abbreviated laymans Shima that is on Margoneetho - Syriac Orthodox Resources.
 

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wgw said:
I just discovered a fantastic resource for the Syriac Orthodox liturgy: https://sites.google.com/site/syrianorthodox/

They have the full Shima except for the Lilio, or Midnight Office/Matins, with the services for each day of the week.  This is much more content than the abbreviated laymans Shima that is on Margoneetho - Syriac Orthodox Resources.
Thanks for posting!
 

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Thanks to assistance from Samn! and jobin219, pious members of the Syriac Oriental and Eastern Orthodox Community, here is a complete list of Syriac Orthodox anaphoras:

http://www.syriacstudies.com/AFSS/Syriac_Articles_in_English/Entries/2008/3/17_LITURGICAL_BOOKS_-_Mor_Ignatius_Aphram_Barsoum.html
[/quote]

Here is a project to make them available in manuscript and translation form:

https://syriac-anaphoras.org/

Here are Latin volumes containing translations of the Anaphoras mentioned on the previous website:

https://archive.org/details/liturgiarumorie05renagoog/page/n4
https://archive.org/details/liturgiarumorie04renagoog/page/n8

And here is a book by Sebastian Brock, the greatest Syriologist and leader of Aramaic Studies in our times, on Syriac liturgics, which includes an article on commonalities of the West Syriac liturgies and their anaphoras (chiefly Syriac Orthodox I expect; I found a $50 copy on Amazon and will post a review when it arrives):

https://books.google.be/books?id=Ey_FW7acTycC&pg=PA199&dq=%22West+Syrian+Anaphoras%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiB_e6W2sTfAhXPaFAKHat-BasQ6AEILjAB#v=onepage&q=%22West%20Syrian%20Anaphoras%22&f=false
 

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Mor Ephrem said:
Alpha60 said:
Thanks to assistance from Samn! and jobin219, pious members of the Syriac Orthodox Church...
Actually, I think Samn! is EO.
Fixed with a strike through.  Once again we are assisted by our great friend Mor Ephrem, hero of heroes, scholar of scholars, moderator of moderators, worthy heir to the fourth century Harp of the Spirit, the spiritual muezzin to Orthodox Christians, inspiring us noetically through his prayers to join in prayer with infinitely greater efficacy than the carnal wailing of the diabolatrous Islamic singers, who, unlike his Islamic counterparts with their abominable and cowardly loudspeakers, undoubtably has the courage to ascend a minaret, but not to annoy people by plagiarizing Syriac Orthodox music and screaming it at the top of his lungs in a call to Islamic apostasy, but rather to extoll metrical homilies convicting us of sin in the spirit of St. Ephraim and St. Jacob of Sarugh, the Flute of the Spirit, and while he was at it, Mor would surely also rip the sinister crescent moon off of the minaret, and recast it in the shape of a cross through fervent prayer, were such a course of action spiritually profitable.  And indeed to the extent Mor is not astride the minarets of Constantinople and other cities stolen from us, converting mosques into convents, monasteries, cathedrals, parish churches and splendid oratories, baptistries and martyries, it is to better serve his apostolate, as the 14th Apostle and Judge of the Interwebs!  ;)

I also owe Samn! and Jobin acrostic poems in their honor for this contribution.  Also I believe Jobin did once tell off a troll who reminds us of 2001: A Space Odyssey, let the reader understand, and deserves credit for that.  For that matter I owe another ode to Ainnir for dealing with that other annoying chap.

My friend Andreas, is even more excited than I am by this material, and as an added plus, he speaks Latin and can read them.

~

http://www.voskrese.info/spl/dionysius-lit.html

Lastly as no post on this thread is complete without a link to more liturgical material of the OO tradition, here is the mysterious Anaphora of St. Dionysius, which is also Syriac Orthodox but I believe it was absent from the above lists (so that takes us to 80 anaphoras and the Signing of the Chalice; 81 anaphoras if we assert an Oriental Orthodox form of the Liturgy of Sts. Addai and Mari was used by the Syriac Orthodox in India before the Portuguese, hence its use by the Syro Malabar Catholics, and also possibly by the Syriac Orthodox in Iraq, since the East Syriac Anaphora of Peter (Sharar) appears to be in the list, meaning it is not a Maronite thing (I am inclined to doubt there are any aspects of the Maronite liturgy that are specificially Maronite in origin; I am leaning towards a view that their entire rite is derived from a blend of Syriac Orthodox, Syro-Byzantine and Latin influences).

And if we count the presanctified liturgies, since there is also an East Syriac form of the presanctified recently revived by the Assyrian Church of the East, that takes us to 83 anaphoras or semi-anaphoras.  This leaves us just 3 anaphoras short of the count of 86 anaphoras I have read in multiple places.  8)
 

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Alpha60 said:
Once again we are assisted by our great friend Mor Ephrem, hero of heroes, scholar of scholars, moderator of moderators, worthy heir to the fourth century Harp of the Spirit, the spiritual muezzin to Orthodox Christians, inspiring us noetically through his prayers to join in prayer with infinitely greater efficacy than the carnal wailing of the diabolatrous Islamic singers, who, unlike his Islamic counterparts with their abominable and cowardly loudspeakers, undoubtably has the courage to ascend a minaret, but not to annoy people by plagiarizing Syriac Orthodox music and screaming it at the top of his lungs in a call to Islamic apostasy, but rather to extoll metrical homilies convicting us of sin in the spirit of St. Ephraim and St. Jacob of Sarugh, the Flute of the Spirit, and while he was at it, Mor would surely also rip the sinister crescent moon off of the minaret, and recast it in the shape of a cross through fervent prayer, were such a course of action spiritually profitable.  And indeed to the extent Mor is not astride the minarets of Constantinople and other cities stolen from us, converting mosques into convents, monasteries, cathedrals, parish churches and splendid oratories, baptistries and martyries, it is to better serve his apostolate, as the 14th Apostle and Judge of the Interwebs!  ;)
I am so turned on right now...
 

Deacon Lance

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Nice article on the Copts and the Presanctified
https://www.academia.edu/31152986/_The_Coptic_Church_and_the_Presanctified_Liturgy_The_Story_of_a_Rejected_Tradition_The_Alexandria_School_Journal_3_2016_2-30
 

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Lastly as no post on this thread is complete without a link to more liturgical material of the OO tradition, here is the mysterious Anaphora of St. Dionysius, which is also Syriac Orthodox but I believe it was absent from the above lists (so that takes us to 80 anaphoras and the Signing of the Chalice; 81 anaphoras if we assert an Oriental Orthodox form of the Liturgy of Sts. Addai and Mari was used by the Syriac Orthodox in India before the Portuguese, hence its use by the Syro Malabar Catholics, and also possibly by the Syriac Orthodox in Iraq, since the East Syriac Anaphora of Peter (Sharar) appears to be in the list, meaning it is not a Maronite thing (I am inclined to doubt there are any aspects of the Maronite liturgy that are specificially Maronite in origin; I am leaning towards a view that their entire rite is derived from a blend of Syriac Orthodox, Syro-Byzantine and Latin influences).

And if we count the presanctified liturgies, since there is also an East Syriac form of the presanctified recently revived by the Assyrian Church of the East, that takes us to 83 anaphoras or semi-anaphoras.  This leaves us just 3 anaphoras short of the count of 86 anaphoras I have read in multiple places.
The writings of late Patriarch HH Moran Mor Ignatius Aphrem I Barsoum of blessed memory in his book "Scattered Pearls" and also in the book "Spiritual Treasure" provide some brief information to the fact that the Mosul or Maphrianate/Eastern traditions of the Syriac Orthodox Church were unique and had a number of differences between traditions and Liturgical texts in the "western areas". The Mosul tradition has its own Sh'himo, Phanqitho and Book of Church Feasts. Additionally, late Patriarch mentions they had a slightly different calendar arrangement, some things which seem to match with the Maronites in certain aspects.

Unfortunately, I don't think enough enthusiasm within academia is there in studying the "Eastern" traditions of the SOC, additionally most scholars among the Middle Eastern Syriacs themselves of today are generally from Tur Abdin and other "Western" areas
 

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jobin219 said:
Lastly as no post on this thread is complete without a link to more liturgical material of the OO tradition, here is the mysterious Anaphora of St. Dionysius, which is also Syriac Orthodox but I believe it was absent from the above lists (so that takes us to 80 anaphoras and the Signing of the Chalice; 81 anaphoras if we assert an Oriental Orthodox form of the Liturgy of Sts. Addai and Mari was used by the Syriac Orthodox in India before the Portuguese, hence its use by the Syro Malabar Catholics, and also possibly by the Syriac Orthodox in Iraq, since the East Syriac Anaphora of Peter (Sharar) appears to be in the list, meaning it is not a Maronite thing (I am inclined to doubt there are any aspects of the Maronite liturgy that are specificially Maronite in origin; I am leaning towards a view that their entire rite is derived from a blend of Syriac Orthodox, Syro-Byzantine and Latin influences).

And if we count the presanctified liturgies, since there is also an East Syriac form of the presanctified recently revived by the Assyrian Church of the East, that takes us to 83 anaphoras or semi-anaphoras.  This leaves us just 3 anaphoras short of the count of 86 anaphoras I have read in multiple places.
The writings of late Patriarch HH Moran Mor Ignatius Aphrem I Barsoum of blessed memory in his book "Scattered Pearls" and also in the book "Spiritual Treasure" provide some brief information to the fact that the Mosul or Maphrianate/Eastern traditions of the Syriac Orthodox Church were unique and had a number of differences between traditions and Liturgical texts in the "western areas". The Mosul tradition has its own Sh'himo, Phanqitho and Book of Church Feasts. Additionally, late Patriarch mentions they had a slightly different calendar arrangement, some things which seem to match with the Maronites in certain aspects.

Unfortunately, I don't think enough enthusiasm within academia is there in studying the "Eastern" traditions of the SOC, additionally most scholars among the Middle Eastern Syriacs themselves of today are generally from Tur Abdin and other "Western" areas
Oh please, please, please reassure me that (a) the text to the Eastern Syriac Orthodox tradition is extant and (b) you either have it or know where to get it!  You wouldn’t want to see me cry in front of Mor Ephrem on New Year’s Eve now would you?
 

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Deacon Lance said:
Nice article on the Copts and the Presanctified
https://www.academia.edu/31152986/_The_Coptic_Church_and_the_Presanctified_Liturgy_The_Story_of_a_Rejected_Tradition_The_Alexandria_School_Journal_3_2016_2-30
I have heard there is some interest among the Copts in “unrejecting” that tradition, the idea being that this, like their Sahidic liturgy, the original tasbeha for the St. Cyril liturgy, or the vernacular use of the Coptic language, was something lost due to Islamic persecution.  In particular that the reservation of the Eucharist ceased for fear of some insane fundamentalist fanatical follower of the fearsome freakish Fatimid fool, Hakim, whom the Druze dementedly deify and depravedly declare to be devoid of attributes, should desecrate the Eucharist as one would expect from a dastardly dervish.  Indeed Fakim was so insane his supporters deposed him; he inflicted upon Copts the worst of persecutions and forced the Christians of the Fatimid Caliphate to wear chains in addition to the mandatory black clothing of someone deemed a Dhimmi.

At any rate I must thank the honorable Deacon Lance for providing us with this very useful article, which should serve to put to the sword any lack of knowledge or ignorance on this matter we occasionally encounter in this forum (I recall once we had a stupid Copt who attacked the EO for the reservation of the sacrament, unaware the Armenians did this, and on multiple occasions we have had stupid Byzantines question our orthodoxy on the basis of the lack of Presanctification).
 

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Alpha60 said:
Oh please, please, please reassure me that (a) the text to the Eastern Syriac Orthodox tradition is extant and (b) you either have it or know where to get it!  You wouldn’t want to see me cry in front of Mor Ephrem on New Year’s Eve now would you?
The text of the Eastern (tekso madnhoyo) is mostly available only as manucripts. An abridged form of the Fenqito of the eastern tradtion has been typed up and available as pdf for download from the website of the Patriarchate as 10 volumes. The text is Syriac with an introduction in Arabic.

http://dss-syriacpatriarchate.org/%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B7%D9%82%D9%88%D8%B3-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%83%D9%86%D8%B3%D9%8A%D8%A9/%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%81%D9%86%D8%A7%D9%82%D9%8A%D8%AB/%D9%81%D9%86%D8%A7%D9%82%D9%8A%D8%AB-%D9%83%D9%86%D9%8A%D8%B3%D8%A9-%D8%A3%D9%86%D8%B7%D8%A7%D9%83%D9%8A%D8%A9-%D9%84%D9%84%D8%B3%D8%B1%D9%8A%D8%A7%D9%86-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A7%D8%B1%D8%AB%D9%88%D8%B0/

Vol 1 is from Qudosh Idto to Christmas
Vol 2 - the sundays after denho (Theophany)
vol 3 - Three day Ninveh fast
vol 4 &  The Great Lent
Vol 5 Holy Week
Vol 6 Bright week
etc...
 

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dhinuus said:
Alpha60 said:
Oh please, please, please reassure me that (a) the text to the Eastern Syriac Orthodox tradition is extant and (b) you either have it or know where to get it!  You wouldn’t want to see me cry in front of Mor Ephrem on New Year’s Eve now would you?
The text of the Eastern (tekso madnhoyo) is mostly available only as manucripts. An abridged form of the Fenqito of the eastern tradtion has been typed up and available as pdf for download from the website of the Patriarchate as 10 volumes. The text is Syriac with an introduction in Arabic.

http://dss-syriacpatriarchate.org/%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B7%D9%82%D9%88%D8%B3-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%83%D9%86%D8%B3%D9%8A%D8%A9/%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%81%D9%86%D8%A7%D9%82%D9%8A%D8%AB/%D9%81%D9%86%D8%A7%D9%82%D9%8A%D8%AB-%D9%83%D9%86%D9%8A%D8%B3%D8%A9-%D8%A3%D9%86%D8%B7%D8%A7%D9%83%D9%8A%D8%A9-%D9%84%D9%84%D8%B3%D8%B1%D9%8A%D8%A7%D9%86-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A7%D8%B1%D8%AB%D9%88%D8%B0/

Vol 1 is from Qudosh Idto to Christmas
Vol 2 - the sundays after denho (Theophany)
vol 3 - Three day Ninveh fast
vol 4 &  The Great Lent
Vol 5 Holy Week
Vol 6 Bright week
etc...
Thank goodness, at least it exists then.  You have made me very happy and are now in the queue along with Lance, Jobin219 and Samn! for some songs of praise.
 

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dhinuus said:
Alpha60 said:
Oh please, please, please reassure me that (a) the text to the Eastern Syriac Orthodox tradition is extant and (b) you either have it or know where to get it!  You wouldn’t want to see me cry in front of Mor Ephrem on New Year’s Eve now would you?
The text of the Eastern (tekso madnhoyo) is mostly available only as manucripts. An abridged form of the Fenqito of the eastern tradtion has been typed up and available as pdf for download from the website of the Patriarchate as 10 volumes. The text is Syriac with an introduction in Arabic.

http://dss-syriacpatriarchate.org/%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B7%D9%82%D9%88%D8%B3-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%83%D9%86%D8%B3%D9%8A%D8%A9/%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%81%D9%86%D8%A7%D9%82%D9%8A%D8%AB/%D9%81%D9%86%D8%A7%D9%82%D9%8A%D8%AB-%D9%83%D9%86%D9%8A%D8%B3%D8%A9-%D8%A3%D9%86%D8%B7%D8%A7%D9%83%D9%8A%D8%A9-%D9%84%D9%84%D8%B3%D8%B1%D9%8A%D8%A7%D9%86-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A7%D8%B1%D8%AB%D9%88%D8%B0/

Vol 1 is from Qudosh Idto to Christmas
Vol 2 - the sundays after denho (Theophany)
vol 3 - Three day Ninveh fast
vol 4 &  The Great Lent
Vol 5 Holy Week
Vol 6 Bright week
etc...
Could you please elaborate on what you mean by abridged when you mentioned these pdf files?
 

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In the Syriac Book of Hours translated into Malayalam used by  Malankara Orthodox Christians , there are Prayers attributed to St. Philoxenos of Mabbug. Wonder if there is an English translation
 

Agabus

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So are there actually any print translations of the Syriac liturgy into English that aren't $50 plus?
 

Agabus

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Mor Ephrem said:
Agabus said:
So are there actually any print translations of the Syriac liturgy into English that aren't $50 plus?
http://sor.cua.edu/Liturgy/Anaphora/Eucharist.html
Let me rephrase: any bound translations....

The site works for now. And I've got binders full of printouts of liturgical texts. But I like books when I can have them.
 
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