- Jun 9, 2012
- Reaction score
What new heresy did St. Augustine teach? His teaching about the filioque is very vague and he didn't really teach papal universal jurisdiction or something.88Devin12 said:St Augustine's errors were FAR worse! An ENTIRE church left and fell into heresy because of his writings!Cyrillic said:Origen was condemned at least once during his lifetime by an alexandrian synod, after which he fled to Palestine. Besides, the errors of St. Augustine were nothing compared to those of Origen.88Devin12 said:Origen had no chance to repudiate the view that the later group took and taught. Don't you think St Augustine, seeing the trouble some if his ideas caused, would immediately recant them?Cyrillic said:
Don't forge that MANY of our Father got their ideas and theology directly from Origen.
And some Fathers might or might not be influenced by Origen, they didn't share his crazy fantasies about the pre-existence of souls, another fall after judgment day etc.
There isn't any evidence why Origen was condemned though.
Also, I'm pretty sure it's debated whether or not he really taught and believed apokatasasis as is thought.
As I said, we adhere to the Orthodox faith, but that doesn't mean we throw away our brains and our ability to use our hindsight to see things more clearly.
Things aren't always black and white and as I've pointed out, we shouldn't practice blind adherence.
And see this from St. Epiphanius' letter to John of Jerusalem (source)
"For what Catholic, what Christian who adorns his faith with good works, can hear with calmness Origen's teaching and counsel, or believe in his extraordinary preaching? "The Son," he tells us, "cannot see the Father, and the Holy Spirit cannot see the Son." These words occur in his book "On First Principles;" thus we read, and thus Origen has spoken. "For as it is unsuitable to say that the Son can see the Father, it is consequently unsuitable to suppose that the Spirit can see the Son." Can any one, moreover, brook Origen's assertion that men's souls were once angels in heaven, and that having sinned in the upper world, they have been cast down into this, and have been confined in bodies as in barrows or tombs, to pay the penalty for their former sins; and that the bodies of believers are not temples of Christ, but prisons of the condemned? Again, he tampers with the true meaning of the narrative by a false use of allegory, multiplying words without limit; and undermines the faith of the simple by the most varied arguments.
Now he maintains that souls, in Greek the "cool things," from a word meaning to be cool, are so called because in coming down from the heavenly places to the lower world they have lost their former heat; and now, that our bodies are called by the Greeks chains, from a word meaning chain, or else (on the analogy of our own Latin word) "things fallen," because our souls have fallen from heaven; and that the other word for body which the abundance of the Greek idiom supplies is by many taken to mean a funeral monument, because the soul is shut up within it in the same way as the corpses of the dead are shut up in tombs and barrows.
If this doctrine is true what becomes of our faith? Where is the preaching of the resurrection? Where is the teaching of the apostles, which lasts on to this day in the churches of Christ? Where is the blessing to Adam, and to his seed, and to Noah and his sons? "Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth." According to Origen, these words must be a curse and not a blessing; for he turns angels into human souls, compelling them to leave the place of highest rank and to come down lower, as though God were unable through the action of His blessing to grant souls to the human race, had the angels not sinned, and as though for every birth on earth there must be a fall in heaven. We are to give up, then, the teaching of apostles and prophets, of the law, and of our Lord and Saviour Himself, in spite of His language loud as thunder in the gospel. Origen, on the other hand, commands and urges— not to say binds— his disciples not to pray to ascend into heaven, lest sinning once more worse than they had sinned on earth they should be hurled down into the world again. Such foolish and insane notions he generally confirms by distorting the sense of the Scriptures and making them mean what they do not mean at all. He quotes this passage from the Psalms: "Before you humbled me by reason of my wickedness, I went wrong;" and this, "Return unto your rest, O my soul;" this also, "Bring my soul out of prison;" and this, "I will make confession unto the Lord in the land of the living," although there can be no doubt that the meaning of the divine Scripture is different from the interpretation by which he unfairly wrests it to the support of his own heresy. "