Orthodox Bishops conflicting advice over Covid Vaccine - a Christian Dilemma

[Ikonos]

1. Bishop Sofronie of Suceava advises Orthodox Christians not to get Covid Vaccine

''Beloved Christians,
Even now, after they permanently put your muzzle on, don’t you realize that this is not regarding a virus? Screening has started! The separation of the wheat from the weeds has begun! Those who will accept Mammon’s number in the flesh will choose the bread, and those who will not accept Mammon’s number will choose the CROSS, they will die for the world, but they will live forever in Christ!''...

“They will find a disease for which they will make a vaccine, which will be mandatory, and which will be the beginning of the sealing” – Paisios of Mt. Athos (Spiritual Awakening). ''

Reported in

Should we get vaccinated? – Russian Orthodox Church Abroad (ROCA)

auroca.org

Translated from the original Romanian by Elena Calugaru

2. This contrasts with
Greek Orthodox Bishop Tells Faithful to Get Vaccinated; Lashes Out at Fanatic, So-Called Christian Zealots

“Get vaccinated,” Metropolitan Pavlos of Servia and Kozani, a region in northern Greece told his faithful in the Church, as well as those who watched the live stream services online, adding that they should “leave alone those fanatic, so-called Christians– clergy and laity– the zealots.”
“God said that we should listen to the scientific community,” he said, before wishing his faithful well and he began cutting the traditional Vasilopita.
https://www.pappaspost.com/greek-or...s-out-at-fanatic-so-called-christian-zealots/

3. Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew, the spiritual leader of 300 million Orthodox Christians worldwide, announced he plans to be vaccinated against covid and urged the faithful to also get vaccinated when their time comes.
https://greekcitytimes.com/2021/01/13/patriarch-bartholomew-covid-vaccine/

4. A Greek Orthodox bishop, Metropolitan of Kythera , has urged churchgoers to not take the COVID-19 vaccine because, citing sources from Italy, it is “made from aborted fetuses.”
''AstraZeneca did use the HEK 293 cell line to develop its vaccine – These cells originate from a fetus that was aborted in the Netherlands in 1973''
http://en.protothema.gr/greek-bisho...ecause-it-is-made-from-aborted-fetuses-video/

5. His Eminence Archbishop Makarios, Primate of the Greek Orthodox Church of Australia,
''Regarding COVID-19 vaccines, the Archbishop of Australia made it clear that citizens must take up this promising challenge in dealing with the pandemic, noting that he too will be vaccinated, even in public, to make a symbolic gesture of confidence in the vaccines and the procedure followed. ''
https://greekcitytimes.com/2021/01/12/archbishop-makarios-covid-vaccine/

Sadly, it seems a fairly divided set of opinions, even amongst the higher ranks of Orthodox clergy. What we can be sure of, is that certain elitist figures in World Governments and global cabals must be rubbing their hands with glee, they think they will now be able to control the masses. Vaccine Passports, annual jabs, digital I.Ds, mass surveillance - control of land , property , food and eventually Religion!

 

[Ikonos]

Metropolitan Seraphim of Piraeus is vaccinated
http://www.bio-orthodoxy.com/2021/0..._campaign=Feed:+Bio-Orthodoxy+(BIO-ORTHODOXY)

 

[Ikonos]

Will the mighty Mor Ephrem once again surface, and suspend this thread 'pending review' or deport it to another topic?

 

[Tzimis]

Will the mighty Mor Ephrem once again surface, and suspend this thread 'pending review' or deport it to another topic?

Why would he? He loves to see division in the EOC. Makes him feel at home with the problems his is facing.

 

[bwallace23350]

That first person against the vaccine seems a little out there and a touch on the conspiratorial side

 

[Ariend]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but a lot of bishops are saying that the question of whether or not to take the COVID vaccine is a medical matter, not a spiritual one; and I think this is the correct position we should take.

But then again, I've also heard that when radio was invented, the monks of Mount Athos thought it was a demonic invention until Saint Joseph the Hesychast proved otherwise.

 

[Stinky]

World Council of Churches recommend a public display before media of religious leaders receiving vaccine in solidarity with the world. Also discussed by the World Council of Churches is the possible need for a mandatory vaccine for the common good.

"Invitation to reflection and engagement on ethical issues related to COVID-19 vaccine distribution"

A joint statement by the World Council of Churches and the World Jewish Congress inviting religious leaders to reflect, engage on ethical issues related to global vaccine distribution.

www.oikoumene.org

 

[Ikonos]

World Council of Churches recommend a public display before media of religious leaders receiving vaccine in solidarity with the world. Also discussed by the World Council of Churches is the possible need for a mandatory vaccine for the common good.

"Invitation to reflection and engagement on ethical issues related to COVID-19 vaccine distribution"

A joint statement by the World Council of Churches and the World Jewish Congress inviting religious leaders to reflect, engage on ethical issues related to global vaccine distribution.

www.oikoumene.org

''The World Council of Churches (WCC) is a worldwide Christian inter-church organization founded in 1948 to work for the cause of ecumenism''

This will lead to the False Church - the Anti-Christ
https://www.orthodox.net/articles/against-ecumenism.html

http://orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/ecum_anath.aspx

 

[Ikonos]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but a lot of bishops are saying that the question of whether or not to take the COVID vaccine is a medical matter, not a spiritual one; and I think this is the correct position we should take.
.....................

Which Bishops? What are they saying?
Isn't taking the Vaccine a medical and a Spiritual matter?

 

[Arachne]

Isn't taking the Vaccine a medical and a Spiritual matter?

Why would it be a spiritual matter, more than any other vaccine?

 

[Stinky]

''The World Council of Churches (WCC) is a worldwide Christian inter-church organization founded in 1948 to work for the cause of ecumenism''

This will lead to the False Church - the Anti-Christ
https://www.orthodox.net/articles/against-ecumenism.html

http://orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/ecum_anath.aspx

Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of North America

www.antiochian.org

I shared this same link on another thread- found on the Antiochian website from Febuary 08, 2021 and the trending position some Bishops are taking on The Vaccine.

 

[PorphyriosK]

Why would it be a spiritual matter, more than any other vaccine?

Any vaccine which incorporates cells from aborted fetal kidney tissue is a spiritual matter:

"The most prominent cell line, called HEK 293, comes from an abortion performed in the 1970’s. It’s labeled 293 because that’s how many experimental attempts the researchers needed to get a working cell line. Therefore, though the abortion-to-experiment ratio is not precisely one-to-one, hundreds of abortions went into the project, even if they didn’t result in the working line.

HEK stands for human embryonic kidney. To harvest a viable embryonic kidney for this purpose, sufficiently healthy children old enough to have adequately-developed kidneys must be removed from the womb, alive, typically by cesarean section, and have their kidneys cut out. This must take place without anesthesia for the child, which would lessen the viability of the organs. Instead of being held, rocked, and comforted in the time intervening between their birth and their death, they have organs cut out of them alive.

There is no way that a spontaneous abortion could result in the cell line (as the kidneys cannot remain viable past the brief window in which they must be harvested) or that some brilliant researcher found a way for great good to come out of a rare tragedy by making use of a child’s body donated to science after it was aborted. The deliberate killing of an unwanted child (a little girl, in the case of HEK 293) took place in the tortuous manner it did precisely to obtain her organs for research. The harvest of her organs was the direct cause of her death, prior to which, she was a living child, outside the womb."

Catholic Conscience and the COVID-19 Vaccine

The reception of the COVID-19 vaccine by Pope Francis and Pope Emeritus Benedict undermines a Catholic's ability to conscientiously refuse the vaccine.

www.crisismagazine.com

 

[Arachne]

So, very much like the vaccines for HepA, shingles, rubella, rabies, chickenpox and adenovirus, which I don't hear anyone bleating about.

Also, cut the sensationalism. All four (4) immortalised cell lines used in vaccine development come from therapeutic abortions going back 35-60 years. We've been through this before.

 

[PorphyriosK]

Your conscience tells you one thing, mine tells me another. We will both stand before God at the judgement and all will be revealed. All I'm saying is everyone deserves the freedom not to take a drug they morally object to and for some of us it's also a spiritual matter. That's all.

 

[Arachne]

Your conscience tells you one thing, mine tells me another. We will both stand before God at the judgement and all will be revealed. All I'm saying is everyone deserves the freedom not to take a drug they morally object to and for some of us it's also a spiritual matter. That's all.

My conscience tells me that safeguarding the health of myself and those around me is more important than making a show of dissociation decades after the event. As you said, we will all answer for our choices.

 

[PorphyriosK]

My conscience tells me that safeguarding the health of myself and those around me is more important than making a show of dissociation decades after the event. As you said, we will all answer for our choices.

Yes we will. God bless.

 

[Ikonos]

Why would it be a spiritual matter, more than any other vaccine?

These Vaccines are using a new, questionable technology - mRNA - and have been rushed through testing as an emergency measure.

 

[Ikonos]

An Extreme Orthodox View (many will consider this laughable and ignorant) :
Moldovan Church Denounces COVID Vaccine as Anti-Christian Plot

The Orthodox Church in Moldova has denounced the potential use of a vaccine against COVID-19, calling it a satanic plan to microchip people, or introduce other foreign devices into the human body.

“The global anti-Christian system wants to introduce microchips into people’s bodies with whose help they can control them, through 5G technology,” a cleric said in a press release on Tuesday evening.

https://balkaninsight.com/2020/05/20/moldovan-church-denounces-covid-vaccine-as-anti-christian-plot/

 

[Arachne]

These Vaccines are using a new, questionable technology - mRNA - and have been rushed through testing as an emergency measure.

Why is mRNA questionable?

 

[Tzimis]

The global anti-Christian system wants to introduce microchips into people’s bodies with whose help they can control them, through 5G technology,” a cleric said in a press release on Tuesday evening

I find the article interesting. Ones imagination can surely run away in times like these.
I would think that Orthodoxy, in general should hire a board of medical engineers to look the ingredients over in a study. To ease people's suspicions. Write a report to see if they pose a risk of monitoring imposed on freedoms.

 

[Ikonos]

Why is mRNA questionable?

1. In a new research article published in Microbiology & Infectious Diseases, veteran immunologist J. Bart Classen expresses similar concerns and writes that “RNA-based COVID vaccines have the potential to cause more disease than the epidemic of COVID-19.”
COVID-19 RNA Based Vaccines and the Risk of Prion Disease
https://scivisionpub.com/pdfs/covid19-rna-based-vaccines-and-the-risk-of-prion-disease-1503.pdf

In this latest paper, Classen warns that the RNA-based vaccine technology could create “new potential mechanisms” of vaccine adverse events that may take years to come to light.

2. The New York Times has published an article about people who developed a rare autoimmune disease after receiving COVID vaccines.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/08/health/immune-thrombocytopenia-covid-vaccine-blood.html

3. public submission from J. Patrick Whelan, M.D., Ph.D. The submission was in response to the agency’s request for comments regarding vaccines against SARS-CoV-2

new mRNA vaccine technology utilized by Pfizer and Moderna has “the potential to cause microvascular injury (inflammation and small blood clots called microthrombi) to the brain, heart, liver and kidneys in ways that were not assessed in the safety trials.”
''Dear Colleagues,
I am a pediatric specialist caring for children with the multisystem inflammatory syndrome (MIS-C). I am concerned about the possibility that the new vaccines aimed at creating immunity against the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein (including the mRNA vaccines of Moderna and Pfizer) have the potential to cause microvascular injury to the brain, heart, liver, and kidneys in a way that is not currently being assessed in safety trials of these potential drugs....''
https://www.fda.gov/media/144416/download

 

[Ikonos]

I think this will all basically come down to a personal decision for each Orthodox Christian and their Familes, based on informed consent. We should make sure we are informed

 

[Arachne]

1. Classen is an antivaxxer, so of course he'd flail in that direction. Thank u, next.

2. A whole lot of correlation, precious little causation here. https://www.health.com/condition/in...blood-disorder-covid-vaccine-thrombocytopenia

3. MIS-C is the dominant form in which COVID-19 manifests in children, so it's six of one and half a dozen of the other, except the half-dozen is only on the 'potential' level. Also, children are not vaccinated.

 

[Stinky]

What gets my attention is:
global, solidarity, universal, mandatory for travel ( buy n sell later?) tracking, boosters forever, World Wide Ecumenical Church leaders making a public media show of receiving and telling Christ's Church to likewise do so and thus making it a spiritual event by their example and exhortation.

Even if The Vaccine had only water and nothing harmful, it's the "global behavior" and unification/solidarity to the common goal of "tracking compliance," its the Church blending well with secular agenda that causes me to sit up and watch, take notice.

Some say receiving The Vaccine is the way to show LOVE to our family and neighbors to save their earthly lives. Others out of LOVE and concern warn that receiving The Vaccine is ushering in the antichrist global system and in receiving it, one loses the eternal soul. Sometimes people of LOVE then turn around and intimidate, mock, laugh at, and portray others as stupid, uneducated, fanatics, who are worth nothing, just get rid of them. ..the annoying ones, noncompliant ones, who refuse to get with the program. Or others of LOVE attack their brother who is educated, scientist, psychological, worldly, as not being spiritual minded.....etc..... After all, many just want the promised, " get back to normal."

Let's stand against all fear and love one another. We are all the children of our Father. Let's not allow any global worldly agenda suck us into abusing each other. Lets start here, today.

Orthodox Study Bible, New King James Version:
I John 4:7
Beloved let us love one another, for love is of God: and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God.
I John 4:18
There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear.
I John 4:21
And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also.


Lord, have mercy.
Grant us wisdom Lord. Lead and protect all priests everywhere. Show us the Light and path to eternal Life. Teach us to Love and to hold onto Truth Lord. Most Holy Theotokos pray for us.

 

[Ikonos]

...
...
.... Also, children are not vaccinated.

They may well be at some time later:
A new trial is to test how well the Oxford-AstraZeneca coronavirus vaccine works in children.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56052673

Informed Consent - not Disinformed Mandatory

 

[Arachne]

They may well be at some time later:
A new trial is to test how well the Oxford-AstraZeneca coronavirus vaccine works in children.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56052673

Informed Consent - not Disinformed Mandatory

Do you disagree with that?

 

[Mor Ephrem]

Will the mighty Mor Ephrem once again surface, and suspend this thread 'pending review' or deport it to another topic?

The latter; but not before warning you for public criticism of moderation.

200 points.

Mor Ephrem, moderator

 

[Mor Ephrem]

Why would he? He loves to see division in the EOC. Makes him feel at home with the problems his is facing.

Don’t you have a dance hall to save? Those gyros don’t shave themselves.

 

[Arachne]

mandatory for travel ( buy n sell later?)

Travel vaccinations have been a thing for a long time. Someone who wouldn't mind a few extra shots in order to have an exotic honeymoon shouldn't mind this either.

boosters forever

Might, might not. This is what research is focusing on now.

World Wide Ecumenical Church leaders making a public media show of receiving and telling Christ's Church to likewise do so and thus making it a spiritual event by their example and exhortation.

If the tinfoil hats weren't out in their masses, an encyclical would have been enough.

Even if The Vaccine had only water and nothing harmful, it's the "global behavior" and unification/solidarity to the common goal of "tracking compliance," its the Church blending well with secular agenda that causes me to sit up and watch, take notice.

All gods forbid faith and government ever agree on anything.

 

[Stinky]

Travel vaccinations have been a thing for a long time. Someone who wouldn't mind a few extra shots in order to have an exotic honeymoon shouldn't mind this either.



Might, might not. This is what research is focusing on now.



If the tinfoil hats weren't out in their masses, an encyclical would have been enough.



All gods forbid faith and government ever agree on anything.

LOVE

 

[PorphyriosK]

"Just suck it up and get the shot all you filthy anti-vaxxer scum of the earth. You all make me want to puke. Be compassionate like me."

 

[bwallace23350]

I went to Haiti once on a mission trip after the Earthquake. I received three different vaccines to go. Not sure how this is any different. No one being forced to do anything. No one has to take this vaccine. There is no micro chip in these shots. Are you telling me that the UK, US, China, and Russia are all gathering together to work together and to chip everyone?

 

[PorphyriosK]

I went to Haiti once on a mission trip after the Earthquake. I received three different vaccines to go. Not sure how this is any different. No one being forced to do anything. No one has to take this vaccine. There is no micro chip in these shots. Are you telling me that the UK, US, China, and Russia are all gathering together to work together and to chip everyone?

Be sure to read through all the threads and get all the info from both sides. It's an experimental drug and there are plenty of legit reasons for concern, both medically and morally. Not about microchips.

 

[Arachne]

Be sure to read through all the threads and get all the info from both sides. It's an experimental drug and there are plenty of legit reasons for concern, both medically and morally. Not about microchips.

Neither mRNA nor adenovirus are drugs, much less experimental. But by all means check both sides, the science and the pseudoscience.

 

[PorphyriosK]

Neither mRNA nor adenovirus are drugs, much less experimental. But by all means check both sides, the science and the pseudoscience.

How is any pharmacutical under 1 year old not experimental? No long term trials = experimental.
The virus itself has only been studied for under a year.

 

[Tzimis]

Don’t you have a dance hall to save? Those gyros don’t shave themselves.

Lol, good one.

 

[Stinky]

How is any pharmacutical under 1 year old not experimental? No long term trials = experimental.
The virus itself has only been studied for under a year.

They have been playing with mRNA vaccines for a while now. The CDC says this about the mRNA vaccines: (I didnt see a date on this link.)

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/hcp/mrna-vaccine-basics.html#:~:text=Like all vaccines, COVID-19,for more than a decade.

This site says the corona virus in humans has been around for a while.

First human coronavirus isolated at UChicago more than 50 years ago

How a study of medical students with upper respiratory infections in 1962 helped lay the groundwork for research on coronaviruses, including the virus that causes COVID-19.

www.uchicagomedicine.org

 

[Tzimis]

How is any pharmacutical under 1 year old not experimental? No long term trials = experimental.
The virus itself has only been studied for under a year.

Thats if it wasn't manufactured.

 

[Tzimis]

They have been playing with mRNA vaccines for a while now. The CDC says this about the mRNA vaccines: (I didnt see a date on this link.)

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/hcp/mrna-vaccine-basics.html#:~:text=Like all vaccines, COVID-19,for more than a decade.

This site says the corona virus in humans has been around for a while.

First human coronavirus isolated at UChicago more than 50 years ago

How a study of medical students with upper respiratory infections in 1962 helped lay the groundwork for research on coronaviruses, including the virus that causes COVID-19.

www.uchicagomedicine.org

The coronavirus is basically a cold. Its been around forever. The big question is how SARS latched on to it.

 

[Ikonos]

... A new trial is to test how well the Oxford-AstraZeneca coronavirus vaccine works in children. ...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56052673
Do you disagree with that?

I would not let my Children be Guinea pigs for such a vaccine at this stage. Our daughter did not have the Gardasil Vaccine based on informed consent, although she has had others since. I am not anti-vax, I have had travel vax myself.