• Please remember: Pray for Ukraine in the Prayer forum; Share news in the Christian News section; Discuss religious implications in FFA: Religious Topics; Discuss political implications in Politics (and if you don't have access, PM me) Thank you! + Fr. George, Forum Administrator

Orthodox Study Bible Notes

Irish45

Elder
Joined
Aug 9, 2010
Messages
271
Reaction score
54
Points
28
I love the Orthodox Study Bible notes.  I like them so much that I'd like to have them without the bible attached so that I can use them with other study bibles and translations.  I was thinking of scanning literally every page and then cropping the notes out to put them on pages together without the biblical text.   

My plan has created 2 questions. 

1. Is it morally permissible to scan these pages and reorganize the notes for personal use?  I have no plan to distribute my work, its only for personal use. 

2. If it is morally permissible, what other methods could I use to organize these notes into a single volume for personal use? 


I appreciate the input!
 

AntoniousNikolas

Taxiarches
Joined
Dec 4, 2002
Messages
7,237
Reaction score
9
Points
0
Location
East Coast, USA
Faith
Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction
Oriental Orthodox Church
I don't see how anyone could raise any moral objections to something you're doing for your own personal, private use and spiritual edification.  I say go for it!

As far as organization goes, you could organize the notes by book, by theme, by commentator (when provided), or in any way that suits you best.  :)
 

Arachne

Matriarch
Staff member
Moderator
Site Supporter
Joined
Dec 22, 2012
Messages
13,054
Reaction score
759
Points
113
Age
50
Location
Camulodunum
Faith
Cradle Greek Orthodox. Cope.
Jurisdiction
Antiochian Archdiocese, UK
Why don't you just copy them out?
 

Luke

Merarches
Joined
Dec 5, 2008
Messages
8,173
Reaction score
565
Points
113
Faith
Orthodox
Jurisdiction
Metropolis of San Francisco
I think for personal use they are fine.  If you ever want to distribute them, you will have to inquire with the publisher about copyright.
 

Iconodule

Hoplitarches
Joined
Jan 2, 2010
Messages
16,486
Reaction score
27
Points
38
Age
40
Location
PA, USA
Faith
Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction
Patriarchate of Johnstown
Did you start this thread just to troll me? Those notes are garbage. I will never miss an opportunity to denounce them. Facile, unhelpful, sometimes misleading, and more often than not, silent on the really difficult passages while jumping for obvious proof-texts or just dull summaries of passages that are already clear. Better off finding in-depth commentaries on particular texts by the fathers than relying on that nonsense.
 

xOrthodox4Christx

Taxiarches
Joined
Apr 28, 2013
Messages
7,322
Reaction score
2
Points
0
Faith
Orthodox Catholic Church
Jurisdiction
Orthodox Church in America
Irish45 said:
I love the Orthodox Study Bible notes.  I like them so much that I'd like to have them without the bible attached so that I can use them with other study bibles and translations.  I was thinking of scanning literally every page and then cropping the notes out to put them on pages together without the biblical text.   

My plan has created 2 questions. 

1. Is it morally permissible to scan these pages and reorganize the notes for personal use?  I have no plan to distribute my work, its only for personal use. 

2. If it is morally permissible, what other methods could I use to organize these notes into a single volume for personal use? 


I appreciate the input!
Copyright law is basically just dead letter at this point, I don't see the issue.
 

benjohn146

Elder
Joined
Oct 15, 2015
Messages
476
Reaction score
0
Points
16
Location
Ontario
Website
www.gocbelleville.com
Faith
Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction
Greek Metropolis of Toronto
Iconodule said:
Did you start this thread just to troll me? Those notes are garbage. I will never miss an opportunity to denounce them. Facile, unhelpful, sometimes misleading, and more often than not, silent on the really difficult passages while jumping for obvious proof-texts or just dull summaries of passages that are already clear. Better off finding in-depth commentaries on particular texts by the fathers than relying on that nonsense.
A baby will feed on milk before solid food such as you. Perhaps the OP is only a "baby" (no disrespect intended) in the faith and plainly reading the Scriptures is void of sense for the beginner.

That study bible helped me a lot.

 

Iconodule

Hoplitarches
Joined
Jan 2, 2010
Messages
16,486
Reaction score
27
Points
38
Age
40
Location
PA, USA
Faith
Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction
Patriarchate of Johnstown
When did I say anything about "plainly reading the scriptures"?
 

benjohn146

Elder
Joined
Oct 15, 2015
Messages
476
Reaction score
0
Points
16
Location
Ontario
Website
www.gocbelleville.com
Faith
Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction
Greek Metropolis of Toronto
I don't get your point.

What I meant by plainly reading the scriptures is that most of the regular people (like me) are not able to grasp the essence of the message that is written when reading a bible with no study notes. Especially for new catechumens that want to understand the bible the Orthodox way.
 

Iconodule

Hoplitarches
Joined
Jan 2, 2010
Messages
16,486
Reaction score
27
Points
38
Age
40
Location
PA, USA
Faith
Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction
Patriarchate of Johnstown
My point was not to read the Bible without commentary. My point was to read it with better commentary, which is readily available on and offline.
 

benjohn146

Elder
Joined
Oct 15, 2015
Messages
476
Reaction score
0
Points
16
Location
Ontario
Website
www.gocbelleville.com
Faith
Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction
Greek Metropolis of Toronto
That is an awesome compilation and I will certainly look into these for those publication that are available online!

I just didn't know that theses even existed, if the OP is new to the Orthodox Church I doubt that did know too.

Someone who don't know who is Theodore of Mopsuestia, you cant expect him to go buy is book and invested money in something he might not know that it is a trustworthy source. Thus the notes of the Orthodox Study Bible are good enough for the moment, at the stage he is in the Orthodox faith, if it is the case of the OP of course!

That is solid food, for the grown up.
 

Iconodule

Hoplitarches
Joined
Jan 2, 2010
Messages
16,486
Reaction score
27
Points
38
Age
40
Location
PA, USA
Faith
Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction
Patriarchate of Johnstown
Hey, sometimes I need milk too. The OSB notes do not provide it. Genuinely difficult passages are routinely ignored. Try reading and understanding Isaiah with just OSB notes. Can't be done.
 

AntoniousNikolas

Taxiarches
Joined
Dec 4, 2002
Messages
7,237
Reaction score
9
Points
0
Location
East Coast, USA
Faith
Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction
Oriental Orthodox Church
I think they can be helpful in places, especially - as was said - for beginners.  For example, the notes on Ephesians 5:19 were very helpful when dealing with misguided Coptic servants who thought the passage gave them a license to introduce Protestant CCM into the Church because that is what some wrongheaded priest with thoroughly ingrained Protestant sympathies told them (his personal misinterpretation).  It really helped to change their minds and their perspective and I've seen the fruit of it in their ministry.  Also, the notes are all right there on the page, and many people, me included, would never want to read through the Bible with a computer and a digital commentary nearby.  For me, when I'm doing my personal Bible reading, it's the printed page or nothing.
 

benjohn146

Elder
Joined
Oct 15, 2015
Messages
476
Reaction score
0
Points
16
Location
Ontario
Website
www.gocbelleville.com
Faith
Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction
Greek Metropolis of Toronto
Iconodule said:
Hey, sometimes I need milk too. The OSB notes do not provide it. Genuinely difficult passages are routinely ignored. Try reading and understanding Isaiah with just OSB notes. Can't be done.
I haven't reach this book yet!  :laugh:
 

benjohn146

Elder
Joined
Oct 15, 2015
Messages
476
Reaction score
0
Points
16
Location
Ontario
Website
www.gocbelleville.com
Faith
Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction
Greek Metropolis of Toronto
Antonious Nikolas said:
I think they can be helpful in places, especially - as was said - for beginners.  For example, the notes on Ephesians 5:19 were very helpful when dealing with misguided Coptic servants who thought the passage gave them a license to introduce Protestant CCM into the Church because that is what some wrongheaded priest with thoroughly ingrained Protestant sympathies told them (his personal misinterpretation).  It really helped to change their minds and their perspective and I've seen the fruit of it in their ministry.  Also, the notes are all right there on the page, and many people, me included, would never want to read through the Bible with a computer and a digital commentary nearby.  For me, when I'm doing my personal Bible reading, it's the printed page or nothing.
I am with you.

I think that the OSB has been put together for the average American coming from a protestant background that is looking into Orthodoxy. There is a notable emphasis on the justification by faith and works and on the Sola Scriptura concept well known in American Protestantism.
 

Agabus

The user formerly known as Agabus
Joined
Apr 10, 2009
Messages
6,333
Reaction score
23
Points
38
Faith
Magnificat
Jurisdiction
La Virgen de Caridad del Cobre
Iconodule said:
Hey, sometimes I need milk too. The OSB notes do not provide it. Genuinely difficult passages are routinely ignored.
This is my complaint as well.
 

Hinterlander

High Elder
Site Supporter
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
Messages
862
Reaction score
2
Points
0
As a Prot., I've owned and used study bibles (like the New Geneva and ESV).  The OSB could really be improved - the content and amount of notes should be greatly expanded.  Hopefully this is in the works or will be at some point.
 

benjohn146

Elder
Joined
Oct 15, 2015
Messages
476
Reaction score
0
Points
16
Location
Ontario
Website
www.gocbelleville.com
Faith
Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction
Greek Metropolis of Toronto
Hinterlander said:
As a Prot., I've owned and used study bibles (like the New Geneva and ESV).  The OSB could really be improved - the content and amount of notes should be greatly expanded.  Hopefully this is in the works or will be at some point.
I think it has already been done.

 

RaphaCam

Patriarch of Trashposting
Joined
Oct 22, 2015
Messages
10,156
Reaction score
1,324
Points
113
Age
25
Location
Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
Website
em-espirito-e-em-verdade.blogspot.com
Faith
Big-O Orthodox
Jurisdiction
Exarchate of Gotham City
For quick reference, I rely on Catena Aurea, the Ancient Christian Commentary to Scripture and the work of Fr. Tadros Malaty. The notes in the OSB aren't great, but they are often OK when we're just browsing the text.
 

Luke

Merarches
Joined
Dec 5, 2008
Messages
8,173
Reaction score
565
Points
113
Faith
Orthodox
Jurisdiction
Metropolis of San Francisco
Study Bible notes are always going to leave questions.  If there was a note for every question, a Bible would be a million pages at a minimum.  I could not carry one around that big.  That is why we have commentaries to do further research.
 

Irish45

Elder
Joined
Aug 9, 2010
Messages
271
Reaction score
54
Points
28
To clear something up, I'm Catholic and I use the notes in the OSB to supplement other study bibles.  I almost never use the OSB it to read the bible and study the notes.  I often read the notes to clarify the meaning of a verse or verses when other study bibles are lacking.  I am a baby when it comes to understanding Orthodoxy so the notes often improve my understanding of your Church.  I sometimes use the introductions when I want a more traditional understanding of a books origin.  It's sometimes helpful for defending the Catholic faith (Imagine that!). 


I do enjoy commentaries from the Fathers but I rarely read them as a study guide.  Most times I refer to the Catena Aurea, which I have in PDF.  This partly because Fathers can be wrong (or to put it better, in the minority of opinion) on certain subjects.  I feel using the Fathers is more fruitful for an Orthodox when reading the Bible because your Church has less universally held positions.  I'm not saying this as an insult, it's probably a good thing.  As i'm sure you are all aware, The Catholic Church tends to be a bit more legalistic and thus less flexibility on some scriptures.

The last poster brought up an important point:  It's a study Bible!  If they added anymore to it, the book would become too big.  Just imagine how thin they'd make those pages if they included real in depth commentary!  This is a main reason why I prefer my notes in a separate book.  Notes are great but they can become a distraction as well.  I'd like to have everything on the side and open it when i need it. 

Anyway, thank you all for your opinions, I appreciate it and I hope you are all having a blessed new year!
 

Iconodule

Hoplitarches
Joined
Jan 2, 2010
Messages
16,486
Reaction score
27
Points
38
Age
40
Location
PA, USA
Faith
Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction
Patriarchate of Johnstown
Gamliel said:
Study Bible notes are always going to leave questions.  If there was a note for every question, a Bible would be a million pages at a minimum.  I could not carry one around that big.  That is why we have commentaries to do further research.
If they took out all the useless summaries and inane observations, there would be plenty of room for notes on more difficult passages. If they're crammed for space, you'd think they'd start with the tough parts and not the obvious ones.
 

wgw

Taxiarches
Joined
Dec 31, 2014
Messages
5,816
Reaction score
1
Points
0
Location
Cast adrift in a lifeboat of the SS Aurora
Faith
Christian
Jurisdiction
Orthodox
Antonious Nikolas said:
I think they can be helpful in places, especially - as was said - for beginners.  For example, the notes on Ephesians 5:19 were very helpful when dealing with misguided Coptic servants who thought the passage gave them a license to introduce Protestant CCM into the Church because that is what some wrongheaded priest with thoroughly ingrained Protestant sympathies told them (his personal misinterpretation).  It really helped to change their minds and their perspective and I've seen the fruit of it in their ministry.  Also, the notes are all right there on the page, and many people, me included, would never want to read through the Bible with a computer and a digital commentary nearby.  For me, when I'm doing my personal Bible reading, it's the printed page or nothing.
I have the OSB in both printed and ePub form.  For most of my life I preferred printed books, but these days I really prefer the screen on my iPad Pro, especially at night, and especially with the new enhanced colour output.
 

Luke

Merarches
Joined
Dec 5, 2008
Messages
8,173
Reaction score
565
Points
113
Faith
Orthodox
Jurisdiction
Metropolis of San Francisco
^ are the notes different in the electronic version compared to the printed version?
 

Irish45

Elder
Joined
Aug 9, 2010
Messages
271
Reaction score
54
Points
28
Unfortunately, probably the Douay Rheims Bible.  I don't believe any modern Catholic Bible uses the traditional manuscripts used in the west(like the OSB). 

RaphaCam said:
What's the best similarly-arranged RC Bible in English?
 
Top