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Orthodox Times 10/24/21 Ecumenical Patriarch: We christianized the Russians, not to mention we civilized them

FULK NERA

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Ecumenical Patriarch: We christianized the Russians, not to mention we civilized them

Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew spoke in very strong terms against the Moscow Patriarchate in an interview he gave on the occasion of the 30th anniversary of his election as Ecumenical Patriarch.

Speaking to the Cypriot newspaper “Politis,” the Ecumenical Patriarch spoke about the great church issue following the granting of the Tomos of Autocephaly to the Orthodox Church of Ukraine.

Text shortened to conform with forum rules. --Ainnir
 
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hurrrah

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A proud instrument.
It is a coincidence, or not, but it is curious how the grossest introduction of turmoil into the life of the Church is combined with a fervent commitment to covidobesy.
 

FULK NERA

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A proud instrument.
It is a coincidence, or not, but it is curious how the grossest introduction of turmoil into the life of the Church is combined with a fervent commitment to covidobesy.
Your neologism leaves me guessing that you think covid is a joke or something. You are wrong, it's a huge problem we barely have a handle on. I deplore everything the EP says in this article (much of which is vague hellenorhetorical blather) but the one thing they got right is <GET THE VACCINE, WEAR A MASK IN CHURCH>
 

hurrrah

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No, I, based on the intensity of lies, intimidation and violence in the "fight against the virus", consider it a satanic thing. However, I have already talked about this.
 

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FULK NERA

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I am happily not in communion with him.

He isn't authorized to speak neither for me, nor for more than hundred million orthodox faithful.

Needless to say, he was never my "spiritual father".
The article is a difficult read. It's appalling how this message of hellenic supremacism has become normalized among Greek clergy and publicized by the press of the hellenists. For one thing, it's a total lie. The origins of Orthodoxy in Russia are the Bulgarian mission, whose traces were erased by the subsequent Greek administration, and Varangian/Slavic civilization existed independent of the Roman Mediterranean. Just as Russian civilization was eclectically sourced (e.g., the Sassanian church dome adopted to express Asianness instead of classicism) its spiritual patrimony within Orthodoxy did not depend entirely on Constantinopolitan sources but developed from many vectors that were entirely outside the library of Greek translations. Russian monastics possessed literature from Syria, Palestine, Armenia, Ethiopia and even Sudan, that do not exist in Greek.

Constantinople expresses a strong interest in conveying a picture of Eastern Orthodoxy that is mono culturally Greek. Whenever a Local Church wrests its independence from under their domination, as Antioch and Bulgaria did in the XIX c., it engenders a perennial resentment. The list of autocephalies which 'owe' the Phanar a debt of gratitude grows longer every decade. My favorite story among them is how the EP recognized the Autocephaly of the Georgian Church in 1990. This was a late volley against the MP who, upon the event of the restoration of the Patriarchate in 1917, rescinded the unilateral (illegal) annexation of the Georgian Church which occurred during the XIX c. after the illegal military annexation of that country. The Phanar 'made it official' the year Bartholomew came to the Ecumenical Throne so that the Phanar could at last normalize relations with Georgia which they had until that point considered part of the Russian Church. All this despite the fact that the Georgian Catholicosate-Patriarchate was established as autocephalous by Antioch BEFORE THE ECUMENICAL THRONE WAS ESTABLISHED. So since 1990, the Phanar can pretend that they granted Georgia Autocephaly. This is how the Ecumenical mind works. No wonder they are so roundly reviled.
 

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...

Constantinople expresses a strong interest in conveying a picture of Eastern Orthodoxy that is mono culturally Greek.
...
There is plenty to respond to your post, but right now I have time only for this:

The main problem is not "the Greekness", but "the Phanariotism".

For me, "the Greekness" is when you arrive after a long night-bus-drive, sit at the beach-bar to wait there for your luggage, and the waitress comes with a bottle of water and puts it on the table, then takes your order, serve you a coffee you had just ordered, then when you ask for the bill because your luggage arrived you get the one WITHOUT the bottle of water, because that was a gift to a tired traveler from a waitress working in a modest beach bar. That's "the Greekness".

What you wrote about, that is "the Phanariotism". The difference is not geographical.
 
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The EP seems to be the patriarch of a tomb. I wish Constantinople still existed but the final death blow was the 1955 pogrom. I know he controls people elsewhere but his residence seems more a mausoleum.
 
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Over the years I have read so much coming from the EP that primarily gives me a negative feeling but avoided commenting about. I always seem to find news from there to be a source of irritation & never edifying. I was only referring to what seems to be a legacy & no longer a reality within what is now Istanbul ( nowhere else) I am sorry if I offended anyone and should have kept quiet.
 

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So, now you’re saying I’m just not a Christian. I give up. There is nothing else I can do.
 

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Over the years I have read so much coming from the EP that primarily gives me a negative feeling but avoided commenting about. I always seem to find news from there to be a source of irritation & never edifying.
Many, many of us feel the exact same way, don’t feel sorry at all
 

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I’m not sure that’s what he meant.
What I mean is very simple. Novel Phanar coinage of ‘Mother Church’ to designated its relationship to other autocephalies is spurious. Mother Church traditionally means Jerusalem. Does anyone‘s notion of Christianity depend on Istanbul‘s Fener district being the fons et origo? If that’s the case he is sadly mistaken.
 
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Many, many of us feel the exact same way, don’t feel sorry at all
Thanks, but I should also take note that EP Bartholomew is working under great strain at present. Traveling & being hospitalized & still going, I need to pray for him. I still have deep concerns re what I often hear though but need to keep frustration in check with my own state of sin.
 

Tzimis

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This board should perhaps declare itself, perhaps right under the banner, ‘not ideal for those under the authority of the EP.’ Then we’ll know, and we can stop giving this place our money.
I'm on funds withheld status myself.
 

Ainnir

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I'm betting this thread's gonna get locked
Tempting, but not yet. It has, however, been moved to Religious Topics. Please keep the polemics to a minimum, everyone.
Thanks. --Ainnir
 

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. Just as Russian civilization was eclectically sourced ...its spiritual patrimony within Orthodoxy did not depend entirely on Constantinopolitan sources but developed from many vectors that were entirely outside the library of Greek translations. Russian monastics possessed literature from Syria, Palestine, Armenia, Ethiopia and even Sudan, that do not exist in Greek.
There is a non canonical book, 4 Esdras, that Jerome translated into Latin. It went into the Vulgate, but got lost in Greek. The RC Pope Clement VIII included it in the Catholic Bible appendix. The Russians used the Vulgate as a source, so they have a noncanonical book that the Greeks don't. I think the Russian Church always considered it noncanonical.
 

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Helleniscope reported that at the Sunday liturgy at St. Sophia's in Washington, DC, P. Bartholomew did not show up because of a hospitalization. It posted a video of the service and claimed that he was not mentioned at all in the service. It claims that instead, Met./Abp. Emmanuel was openly presented as the unofficial successor to P. Bartholomew.


It claims, "The whole ceremony was orchestrated as the unofficial enthronement of Emmanuel as Patriarch."
 

rakovsky

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This board should perhaps declare itself, perhaps right under the banner, ‘not ideal for those under the authority of the EP.’ Then we’ll know, and we can stop giving this place our money.
The forum covers EOs and OOs across the spectrum. One Administrator belongs to GOARCH. If the topic of Constantinople's relations with other EOs is too polemical, they could make "Constantinople-Other EOs" Private section for discussing the status of Constantinople, like how we have an EO-OO Private section.
 

rakovsky

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Many, many of us feel the exact same way, don’t feel sorry at all
One of the OCA's official statements on Ukraine resolves
  • That our clergy and faithful preserve an attitude of sobriety and restraint in any public discussions of these matters.

I remind myself of this when it comes to discussing Constantinople's interOrthodox policy declarations of the last 3 1/2 years.
 

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One of the OCA's official statements on Ukraine resolves
  • That our clergy and faithful preserve an attitude of sobriety and restraint in any public discussions of these matters.

I remind myself of this when it comes to discussing Constantinople's interOrthodox policy declarations of the last 3 1/2 years.
As the pastors entrusted with the flock of the Orthodox Church in America, we cannot stand by idly and allow the Orthodox faithful to be divided into factions. Let us all zealously endeavor to count all things secondary to the unity to which we are called, and above all, let us all be solicitous for the unity of Christ’s Holy Orthodox Church in America and throughout the world, lest, becoming divided, she become weakened in her task of proclaiming the Gospel to the ends of the universe. As the Lord prays in John 17:19-21, “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me,” so likewise do we pray.

Given on this day, January 28, 2019 by the Holy Synod of Bishops of the Orthodox Church in America,

+TIKHON, Archbishop of Washington, Metropolitan of All America and Canada
 

Tzimis

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As the pastors entrusted with the flock of the Orthodox Church in America, we cannot stand by idly and allow the Orthodox faithful to be divided into factions. Let us all zealously endeavor to count all things secondary to the unity to which we are called, and above all, let us all be solicitous for the unity of Christ’s Holy Orthodox Church in America and throughout the world, lest, becoming divided, she become weakened in her task of proclaiming the Gospel to the ends of the universe. As the Lord prays in John 17:19-21, “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me,” so likewise do we pray.

Given on this day, January 28, 2019 by the Holy Synod of Bishops of the Orthodox Church in America,

+TIKHON, Archbishop of Washington, Metropolitan of All America and Canada
Americans have a fragmented past.
 

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There is a non canonical book, 4 Esdras, that Jerome translated into Latin. It went into the Vulgate, but got lost in Greek. The RC Pope Clement VIII included it in the Catholic Bible appendix. The Russians used the Vulgate as a source, so they have a noncanonical book that the Greeks don't. I think the Russian Church always considered it noncanonical.
There is a whole lot of apocalyptic, pseudepigraphic lit that has become part of the library of Russian monks that comes through Syriac sources.
 

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Menas17

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Quote from Archbishop Elpidophoros…these people are insane:

“And referring to the Heavenly manifestation that led the Magi to the Christ-Child, Abp. Elpidophoros continued that Pat. Bartholomew is “the Star of the East, who came to give us once again the light of the ever-shining and martyric Phanar,” which is the “glory of the Orthodox Church and our devout Genos.”

And quoting Romans 10, he praised: “O, how beautiful are the feet of His All-Holiness; He, who preaches to us the gospel of peace and the good things of God. And in humbly bowing our heads to Him, it is with a joyful heart that we all receive His venerable Patriarchal blessing.”
 
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