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Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column

Achronos

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orthonorm said:
What we were we discussing again?

Oh yes, ending relationships and guilt.

Of course every situation is unique.

If you believe the above, go directly to your nearest newsstand and pick up the latest copy of O magazine.

Now given my wealth of experience and insight into the human condition there are a number of answers here.

Let's start with the ideal.

"All things find their end in their beginning."

The best way to end a relationship and mitigate the guilt starts with its beginning.

All endings are painful. They just are. But the pain of guilt has a particular quality and can stem from many missteps taken, but essentially, guilt is the pain of feeling improperly indebted to someone.

We are always in the other's debt. From them we find our very selves. In light of the other, we are. This debt, this gift can never be repaid. Thank God. For no gift should be repaid. It is pride that drives us to not want to be forever indebted to the other.

Someone once said of true gifts: they are what we can never offer ourselves, didn't want, and can never return.

So it is in our relationships with others. Relationships obviously cannot be had alone. We are not individuals. Rarely do relationships give us what we wanted for better and worse. They break our own feeble attempts to project our fantasy onto reality. They show us for who we are in all our grace and falleness. And we can never return them. For all the infantile, ritualistic attempts to cut off the other, the relationship, forever that person will have changed us forever.

This is structure of all relationships.

Sometimes out of nowhere, where we least expected it a person enters our lives and changes us immediately. No matter how much we were not looking for anything or even wanted it, we suddenly are caught up with another. Understanding the structure of the gift of a relationship that radical debt we will always carry will help to understand how to begin, and in beginning, how end the relationship without twisting that wonderful debt into the pain of guilt and free us to feel the pain love and grief.

In short we must accept: we will always owe the other something we cannot repay.

How to avoid have that feeling of indebtedness turn into guilt?

Stay tuned.
After this relationship, I'm seriously done dating/relationship wise. Maybe for good, maybe not.

I seriously am exhausted. That's not to say I have always been relationship oriented, but I seriously need to take care of myself first priority.
 

vamrat

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Achronos said:
orthonorm said:
What we were we discussing again?

Oh yes, ending relationships and guilt.

Of course every situation is unique.

If you believe the above, go directly to your nearest newsstand and pick up the latest copy of O magazine.

Now given my wealth of experience and insight into the human condition there are a number of answers here.

Let's start with the ideal.

"All things find their end in their beginning."

The best way to end a relationship and mitigate the guilt starts with its beginning.

All endings are painful. They just are. But the pain of guilt has a particular quality and can stem from many missteps taken, but essentially, guilt is the pain of feeling improperly indebted to someone.

We are always in the other's debt. From them we find our very selves. In light of the other, we are. This debt, this gift can never be repaid. Thank God. For no gift should be repaid. It is pride that drives us to not want to be forever indebted to the other.

Someone once said of true gifts: they are what we can never offer ourselves, didn't want, and can never return.

So it is in our relationships with others. Relationships obviously cannot be had alone. We are not individuals. Rarely do relationships give us what we wanted for better and worse. They break our own feeble attempts to project our fantasy onto reality. They show us for who we are in all our grace and falleness. And we can never return them. For all the infantile, ritualistic attempts to cut off the other, the relationship, forever that person will have changed us forever.

This is structure of all relationships.

Sometimes out of nowhere, where we least expected it a person enters our lives and changes us immediately. No matter how much we were not looking for anything or even wanted it, we suddenly are caught up with another. Understanding the structure of the gift of a relationship that radical debt we will always carry will help to understand how to begin, and in beginning, how end the relationship without twisting that wonderful debt into the pain of guilt and free us to feel the pain love and grief.

In short we must accept: we will always owe the other something we cannot repay.

How to avoid have that feeling of indebtedness turn into guilt?

Stay tuned.
After this relationship, I'm seriously done dating/relationship wise. Maybe for good, maybe not.

I seriously am exhausted. That's not to say I have always been relationship oriented, but I seriously need to take care of myself first priority.
I feel ya, bro.
 

vamrat

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Achronos said:
vamrat said:
Volnutt said:
vamrat said:
I feel ya, bro.
He said he doesn't want another relationship.
Would you bug off!  You're cramping my style!
ROFL WOW
Perhaps, "I feel for you, bro" would have come off better.  But then again, maybe not.  There really isn't a straight way of saying bro.  Come to think of it, that entire sentence was full of sympathy, that in and of itself is a gay trait.

Oh crap.  I need to go to confession...
 

Babalon

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vamrat said:
Achronos said:
vamrat said:
Volnutt said:
vamrat said:
I feel ya, bro.
He said he doesn't want another relationship.
Would you bug off!  You're cramping my style!
ROFL WOW
Perhaps, "I feel for you, bro" would have come off better.  But then again, maybe not.  There really isn't a straight way of saying bro.  Come to think of it, that entire sentence was full of sympathy, that in and of itself is a gay trait.

Oh crap.  I need to go to confession...
Oh come off it you! It's not like he said this.
 

Babalon

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^If it's in regards to my above hyperlink, i can assure you that there WAS a clever picture in the the vein of this discussion.

I don't remember what it was though, and it would appear that the link is dead.....


So now things are just awkward.  :-X
 

vamrat

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Babalon said:
^If it's in regards to my above hyperlink, i can assure you that there WAS a clever picture in the the vein of this discussion.

I don't remember what it was though, and it would appear that the link is dead.....


So now things are just awkward.  :-X
Just look up "Hommies over Hoes" by Gangstalicious.  That should make things worse...
 

Asteriktos

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Babalon said:
^If it's in regards to my above hyperlink, i can assure you that there WAS a clever picture in the the vein of this discussion.

I don't remember what it was though, and it would appear that the link is dead.....


So now things are just awkward.  :-X
Oh, sorry about that. No, actually I had posted something and then decided that it shouldn't have been posted, so I went back to edit the post... but I didn't know what to put, so I just said what is there now. :)
 

Achronos

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Where is our saintly emporer to guide us into the Promised Land of women who wait hand and foot?
 

vamrat

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Achronos said:
Where is our saintly emporer to guide us into the Promised Land of women who wait hand and foot?
Until Orthonorm returns I shall be the substitute.  Please direct all your relationship queries to me.  I will fill your heads with wisdom and insight.  Ovid was my teacher and Catullus my muse.

Respectable ladies, the kind who wear hairbands and ankle-length skirts are hereby warned off.
Safe love, legitimate liaisons will be my theme.  This lesson breaks no taboos.

First, then, you fledgeling troopers in passion's service, comes the task of finding the object for your love.
Next, you must labour to woo and win your lady.
Thirdly, ensure the affair will last.
Such are my limitations, such the ground I will cover, the race I propose to run.
 

Punch

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vamrat said:
Achronos said:
Where is our saintly emporer to guide us into the Promised Land of women who wait hand and foot?
Until Orthonorm returns I shall be the substitute.  Please direct all your relationship queries to me.  I will fill your heads with wisdom and insight.  Ovid was my teacher and Catullus my muse.

Respectable ladies, the kind who wear hairbands and ankle-length skirts are hereby warned off.
Safe love, legitimate liaisons will be my theme.  This lesson breaks no taboos.

First, then, you fledgeling troopers in passion's service, comes the task of finding the object for your love.
Next, you must labour to woo and win your lady.
Thirdly, ensure the affair will last.
Such are my limitations, such the ground I will cover, the race I propose to run.
I puked a little in my mouth.
 

primuspilus

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vamrat said:
Achronos said:
Where is our saintly emporer to guide us into the Promised Land of women who wait hand and foot?
Until Orthonorm returns I shall be the substitute.  Please direct all your relationship queries to me.  I will fill your heads with wisdom and insight.  Ovid was my teacher and Catullus my muse.

Respectable ladies, the kind who wear hairbands and ankle-length skirts are hereby warned off.
Safe love, legitimate liaisons will be my theme.  This lesson breaks no taboos.

First, then, you fledgeling troopers in passion's service, comes the task of finding the object for your love.
Next, you must labour to woo and win your lady.
Thirdly, ensure the affair will last.
Such are my limitations, such the ground I will cover, the race I propose to run.
Why do I feel like I just jumped in front of a bus?

PP
 

montalo

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primuspilus said:
vamrat said:
Achronos said:
Where is our saintly emporer to guide us into the Promised Land of women who wait hand and foot?
Until Orthonorm returns I shall be the substitute.  Please direct all your relationship queries to me.  I will fill your heads with wisdom and insight.  Ovid was my teacher and Catullus my muse.

Respectable ladies, the kind who wear hairbands and ankle-length skirts are hereby warned off.
Safe love, legitimate liaisons will be my theme.  This lesson breaks no taboos.

First, then, you fledgeling troopers in passion's service, comes the task of finding the object for your love.
Next, you must labour to woo and win your lady.
Thirdly, ensure the affair will last.
Such are my limitations, such the ground I will cover, the race I propose to run.
Why do I feel like I just jumped in front of a bus?

PP
lay off the bourbon
 

primuspilus

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TheMathematician said:
primuspilus said:
vamrat said:
Achronos said:
Where is our saintly emporer to guide us into the Promised Land of women who wait hand and foot?
Until Orthonorm returns I shall be the substitute.  Please direct all your relationship queries to me.  I will fill your heads with wisdom and insight.  Ovid was my teacher and Catullus my muse.

Respectable ladies, the kind who wear hairbands and ankle-length skirts are hereby warned off.
Safe love, legitimate liaisons will be my theme.  This lesson breaks no taboos.

First, then, you fledgeling troopers in passion's service, comes the task of finding the object for your love.
Next, you must labour to woo and win your lady.
Thirdly, ensure the affair will last.
Such are my limitations, such the ground I will cover, the race I propose to run.
Why do I feel like I just jumped in front of a bus?

PP
lay off the bourbon
Good advice :)

PP
 

dzheremi

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No way! That's the worst advice ever. I just attended my grandfather's 90th birthday over New Years' weekend. His secret to long life? Quote: "Two bourbons a day, every day." And he didn't say this from a wheelchair, or with a mumble, or while pushing around one of those old-person miniature shopping cart/walker things through the isles of a dollar store. He said it while driving his Cadillac to the clubhouse of his favorite golf course, where he busted the chops of his 92-95 year old friends for being "old", while adding years to his life at the free bar and then taking them off again with three different kinds of cake. (I think he's secretly that guy from the Dos Equis commercial, wearing an old white guy mask.)

Two bourbons a day, every day. I don't drink, but maybe I should start...  :-\
 

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dzheremi said:
No way! That's the worst advice ever. I just attended my grandfather's 90th birthday over New Years' weekend. His secret to long life? Quote: "Two bourbons a day, every day." And he didn't say this from a wheelchair, or with a mumble, or while pushing around one of those old-person miniature shopping cart/walker things through the isles of a dollar store. He said it while driving his Cadillac to the clubhouse of his favorite golf course, where he busted the chops of his 92-95 year old friends for being "old", while adding years to his life at the free bar and then taking them off again with three different kinds of cake. (I think he's secretly that guy from the Dos Equis commercial, wearing an old white guy mask.)

Two bourbons a day, every day. I don't drink, but maybe I should start...  :-\
I think being told you need to lay off the bourbon probably means that for you two is just getting started. :p
 

primuspilus

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Cavaradossi said:
dzheremi said:
No way! That's the worst advice ever. I just attended my grandfather's 90th birthday over New Years' weekend. His secret to long life? Quote: "Two bourbons a day, every day." And he didn't say this from a wheelchair, or with a mumble, or while pushing around one of those old-person miniature shopping cart/walker things through the isles of a dollar store. He said it while driving his Cadillac to the clubhouse of his favorite golf course, where he busted the chops of his 92-95 year old friends for being "old", while adding years to his life at the free bar and then taking them off again with three different kinds of cake. (I think he's secretly that guy from the Dos Equis commercial, wearing an old white guy mask.)

Two bourbons a day, every day. I don't drink, but maybe I should start...  :-\
I think being told you need to lay off the bourbon probably means that for you two is just getting started. :p
Im actually a rum guy but......

PP
 

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I have a new question for orthonorm (or anyone else): my girlfriend was over the other night and out of the blue she asked if she was fat. Well, she is a bit on the hefty side, so it was kinda awkward. But she's always talking about honesty and good communication and such, so I just--as gently as I could--explained that she could stand to lose a few pounds, and that if she wanted to come to the gym with me that'd be a great thing to do together. Well, that didn't go over so well. She started crying and mumbling something about how all I care about is thin girls with big boobs, which is silly since I just watch shows like project runway for the creative-competitive action, and yeah I watch women's volleyball and cheerleading and stuff, but that's just because I like ESPN. And I barely even look at those websites hardly at all now. Anyway, so she says that I just use her and will dump her when someone thinner comes along and all this other stuff. What do I say? What should I do? Maybe buy her a gym membership? They're having a biggest loser competition at the gym starting next month, should I secretly sign her up?
 

vamrat

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primuspilus said:
vamrat said:
Achronos said:
Where is our saintly emporer to guide us into the Promised Land of women who wait hand and foot?
Until Orthonorm returns I shall be the substitute.  Please direct all your relationship queries to me.  I will fill your heads with wisdom and insight.  Ovid was my teacher and Catullus my muse.

Respectable ladies, the kind who wear hairbands and ankle-length skirts are hereby warned off.
Safe love, legitimate liaisons will be my theme.  This lesson breaks no taboos.

First, then, you fledgeling troopers in passion's service, comes the task of finding the object for your love.
Next, you must labour to woo and win your lady.
Thirdly, ensure the affair will last.
Such are my limitations, such the ground I will cover, the race I propose to run.
Why do I feel like I just jumped in front of a bus?

PP
Not a fan of Ovid?  (I assure you, I am in no way corny, or poetic, enough to have come up with any of that!)
 

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Asteriktos said:
I have a new question for orthonorm (or anyone else): my girlfriend was over the other night and out of the blue she asked if she was fat. Well, she is a bit on the hefty side, so it was kinda awkward. But she's always talking about honesty and good communication and such, so I just--as gently as I could--explained that she could stand to lose a few pounds, and that if she wanted to come to the gym with me that'd be a great thing to do together. Well, that didn't go over so well. She started crying and mumbling something about how all I care about is thin girls with big boobs, which is silly since I just watch shows like project runway for the creative-competitive action, and yeah I watch women's volleyball and cheerleading and stuff, but that's just because I like ESPN. And I barely even look at those websites hardly at all now. Anyway, so she says that I just use her and will dump her when someone thinner comes along and all this other stuff. What do I say? What should I do? Maybe buy her a gym membership? They're having a biggest loser competition at the gym starting next month, should I secretly sign her up?
I had to try really hard not to spit up the coke I had just drank when I read this.
 

vamrat

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Asteriktos said:
I have a new question for orthonorm (or anyone else): my girlfriend was over the other night and out of the blue she asked if she was fat. Well, she is a bit on the hefty side, so it was kinda awkward. But she's always talking about honesty and good communication and such, so I just--as gently as I could--explained that she could stand to lose a few pounds, and that if she wanted to come to the gym with me that'd be a great thing to do together. Well, that didn't go over so well. She started crying and mumbling something about how all I care about is thin girls with big boobs, which is silly since I just watch shows like project runway for the creative-competitive action, and yeah I watch women's volleyball and cheerleading and stuff, but that's just because I like ESPN. And I barely even look at those websites hardly at all now. Anyway, so she says that I just use her and will dump her when someone thinner comes along and all this other stuff. What do I say? What should I do? Maybe buy her a gym membership? They're having a biggest loser competition at the gym starting next month, should I secretly sign her up?
Look, you did the right thing, it's just going to take a while for it to sink in with her.  See, modern scientists have proven that a woman's brain is no larger than that of a squirrel's.  So basically, anything more complex than gaining weight or making nests out of leaves is going to give them some problems and will take a lot of rote memorization to overcome.  What I suggest, is that you start going on walks with her.  This will help her to shed some of that ghastly belly fat and start making her legs look more statuesque and less like several cuts of unboiled corned beef.  All the while you should be using this to drive in to her brain that she is overweight and will be worthless to you and to society until she takes care of it.  You should follow her around with a tuba while she walks and play fat people music.  This should provide her with the necessary stimulation that even her brain will be able to pick up on.  I assure you, after you have made her into a useful, productive, and not to mention skinny member of society, she will feel better, you will feel more proud of her, and your house will be cleaner.  Heck, it will probably save money in the long run as well, since when she cooks she will only need to make enough for you, since all any decent woman eats are yogurt and those card-board ration bars.
 

JamesRottnek

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Asteriktos said:
I have a new question for orthonorm (or anyone else): my girlfriend was over the other night and out of the blue she asked if she was fat. Well, she is a bit on the hefty side, so it was kinda awkward. But she's always talking about honesty and good communication and such, so I just--as gently as I could--explained that she could stand to lose a few pounds, and that if she wanted to come to the gym with me that'd be a great thing to do together. Well, that didn't go over so well. She started crying and mumbling something about how all I care about is thin girls with big boobs, which is silly since I just watch shows like project runway for the creative-competitive action, and yeah I watch women's volleyball and cheerleading and stuff, but that's just because I like ESPN. And I barely even look at those websites hardly at all now. Anyway, so she says that I just use her and will dump her when someone thinner comes along and all this other stuff. What do I say? What should I do? Maybe buy her a gym membership? They're having a biggest loser competition at the gym starting next month, should I secretly sign her up?
I hope that this is a joke; if not, then you are quite sad.
 

Punch

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vamrat said:
Asteriktos said:
I have a new question for orthonorm (or anyone else): my girlfriend was over the other night and out of the blue she asked if she was fat. Well, she is a bit on the hefty side, so it was kinda awkward. But she's always talking about honesty and good communication and such, so I just--as gently as I could--explained that she could stand to lose a few pounds, and that if she wanted to come to the gym with me that'd be a great thing to do together. Well, that didn't go over so well. She started crying and mumbling something about how all I care about is thin girls with big boobs, which is silly since I just watch shows like project runway for the creative-competitive action, and yeah I watch women's volleyball and cheerleading and stuff, but that's just because I like ESPN. And I barely even look at those websites hardly at all now. Anyway, so she says that I just use her and will dump her when someone thinner comes along and all this other stuff. What do I say? What should I do? Maybe buy her a gym membership? They're having a biggest loser competition at the gym starting next month, should I secretly sign her up?
Look, you did the right thing, it's just going to take a while for it to sink in with her.  See, modern scientists have proven that a woman's brain is no larger than that of a squirrel's.  So basically, anything more complex than gaining weight or making nests out of leaves is going to give them some problems and will take a lot of rote memorization to overcome.  What I suggest, is that you start going on walks with her.  This will help her to shed some of that ghastly belly fat and start making her legs look more statuesque and less like several cuts of unboiled corned beef.  All the while you should be using this to drive in to her brain that she is overweight and will be worthless to you and to society until she takes care of it.  You should follow her around with a tuba while she walks and play fat people music.  This should provide her with the necessary stimulation that even her brain will be able to pick up on.  I assure you, after you have made her into a useful, productive, and not to mention skinny member of society, she will feel better, you will feel more proud of her, and your house will be cleaner.  Heck, it will probably save money in the long run as well, since when she cooks she will only need to make enough for you, since all any decent woman eats are yogurt and those card-board ration bars.
Tries to find Vamrat's girlfriend's email address to send the above advice . . .
 

Punch

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JamesRottnek said:
Asteriktos said:
I have a new question for orthonorm (or anyone else): my girlfriend was over the other night and out of the blue she asked if she was fat. Well, she is a bit on the hefty side, so it was kinda awkward. But she's always talking about honesty and good communication and such, so I just--as gently as I could--explained that she could stand to lose a few pounds, and that if she wanted to come to the gym with me that'd be a great thing to do together. Well, that didn't go over so well. She started crying and mumbling something about how all I care about is thin girls with big boobs, which is silly since I just watch shows like project runway for the creative-competitive action, and yeah I watch women's volleyball and cheerleading and stuff, but that's just because I like ESPN. And I barely even look at those websites hardly at all now. Anyway, so she says that I just use her and will dump her when someone thinner comes along and all this other stuff. What do I say? What should I do? Maybe buy her a gym membership? They're having a biggest loser competition at the gym starting next month, should I secretly sign her up?
I hope that this is a joke; if not, then you are quite sad.
I see that you have not spent much time on this thread.
 

JamesRottnek

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Punch said:
JamesRottnek said:
Asteriktos said:
I have a new question for orthonorm (or anyone else): my girlfriend was over the other night and out of the blue she asked if she was fat. Well, she is a bit on the hefty side, so it was kinda awkward. But she's always talking about honesty and good communication and such, so I just--as gently as I could--explained that she could stand to lose a few pounds, and that if she wanted to come to the gym with me that'd be a great thing to do together. Well, that didn't go over so well. She started crying and mumbling something about how all I care about is thin girls with big boobs, which is silly since I just watch shows like project runway for the creative-competitive action, and yeah I watch women's volleyball and cheerleading and stuff, but that's just because I like ESPN. And I barely even look at those websites hardly at all now. Anyway, so she says that I just use her and will dump her when someone thinner comes along and all this other stuff. What do I say? What should I do? Maybe buy her a gym membership? They're having a biggest loser competition at the gym starting next month, should I secretly sign her up?
I hope that this is a joke; if not, then you are quite sad.
I see that you have not spent much time on this thread.
I have not.  But I realized about 45 seconds after I hit 'post' that this was a joke...damn this post moderation.
 

Achronos

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I really need a "How to Breakup without issues" thread.

Alright so I've been very unhappy as of late, and the relationship between myself and my girlfriend is pretty much over. It's my fault because I have completely lost all interest in her and really want to move on, be on my own, etc.

The problem is I fear that she may be suicidal once I say we are through. She will be destroyed by it, and I'm not saying that out of some vanity, but that's honestly the truth.

But the biggest issue is her friends and a certain family member that would do any harm they could towards me if I was to hurt her. In fact her brother would try and find a way to have me killed. No that's not a joke and I'm not saying that just to get more pity from anyone, but this guy has been serious about it in the past towards other individuals and does not even care if he ends up in jail.

I am desperately trying to find a new job out of this state so I don't have to face any of these issues and no one will know where I am residing. The last thing I need in my life is more drama and ridiculousness. My stress level is through the roof right now.

I truly don't know what to do. I've honestly never had to break up with anyone in my life before, but I think it's time to end it.
 

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Achronos said:
I really need a "How to Breakup without issues" thread.

Alright so I've been very unhappy as of late, and the relationship between myself and my girlfriend is pretty much over. It's my fault because I have completely lost all interest in her and really want to move on, be on my own, etc.

The problem is I fear that she may be suicidal once I say we are through. She will be destroyed by it, and I'm not saying that out of some vanity, but that's honestly the truth.

But the biggest issue is her friends and a certain family member that would do any harm they could towards me if I was to hurt her. In fact her brother would try and find a way to have me killed. No that's not a joke and I'm not saying that just to get more pity from anyone, but this guy has been serious about it in the past towards other individuals and does not even care if he ends up in jail.

I am desperately trying to find a new job out of this state so I don't have to face any of these issues and no one will know where I am residing. The last thing I need in my life is more drama and ridiculousness. My stress level is through the roof right now.

I truly don't know what to do. I've honestly never had to break up with anyone in my life before, but I think it's time to end it.
Find someone who knows how to use Photoshop real well.  Then have some pictures 'shopped with her brother and a goat.  Break up with her, and release the 'shopped photos at the same time.  If you are lucky, they both will kill themselves and then your problems are over (at least until the last judgment, but hey, you have time to repent).

And to make things more clear, the photo below is NOT what I mean by 'shopping a picture with him and a goat.
 

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Achronos

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Haha that's great. And I know how to use Photoshop real well to pull it off.

God why can't I just end this. Ugh.
 

Achronos

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Ok so I've been thinking about this for awhile now, and since we live in the 21st century (whatever that means) I'm curious what exactly is the best way to find great women?

Has the search migrated to Facebook and these dating sites, or is more of the chance encounter in person at whatever venue, be it school, work, a bar, etc.

Also can someone clear up whether its a myth or not that if you want to find a nice woman to date and eventually marry you don't go to places like a bar to find them.'

EDIT: I just wanted to say Asteriktos' posts are a goldmine. Someone needs to publish them ASAP.

EDIT DOS: Do not assume I am even thinking about dating/relationships/whatever. I'm mildly curious about the above.
 

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I'm not an expert in these matters, but the question about the bar intrigues me as well. A few years ago I was briefly seeing a therapist to deal with some of my (being a jerk) issues and when he asked about my feelings on such things I said something like "I don't know; I guess I wouldn't mind meeting someone, but I don't really know where to go, and I would feel like a loser if I met some woman in a bar or some place like that..."

He said "uh huh" in a vaguely disapproving tone, which kind of made me mad since, y'know, I was paying him to listen and not judge, so I asked him "what?" and he straightened up and said "Nothing...I met my wife at a bar is all. We've been married for over 30 years."

I don't have an opinion on such things anymore.
 

Achronos

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But 30 years ago what was the bar scene like? It's not the trash and filth you see today, I bet.

If I was wanting to date I'd might hit up some poetry readings or something along those lines. Intelligence in a woman is probably my biggest turn on.
 

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dzheremi said:
I'm not an expert in these matters, but the question about the bar intrigues me as well. A few years ago I was briefly seeing a therapist to deal with some of my (being a jerk) issues and when he asked about my feelings on such things I said something like "I don't know; I guess I wouldn't mind meeting someone, but I don't really know where to go, and I would feel like a loser if I met some woman in a bar or some place like that..."

He said "uh huh" in a vaguely disapproving tone, which kind of made me mad since, y'know, I was paying him to listen and not judge, so I asked him "what?" and he straightened up and said "Nothing...I met my wife at a bar is all. We've been married for over 30 years."

I don't have an opinion on such things anymore.
As long as it's not a topless bar...
 

Achronos

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I've actually met a wonderful girl who was a stripper. I wouldn't mind dating or even marrying one. orthonorm was talking to me about how as men we have insecurities, but I can tell you with a straight face that I would have no insecurities with a stripper. Or even if I was dating a porn star. Both those professions would not make me worried/insecure one bit. I kinda wish I was lying, but that's the honest truth.
 

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Why do women want to talk so much and where can I meet an Orthodox girl my age who's at least decently attractive, intelligent and could actually hold her weight in a deep, philosophical discussion unlike so many people who just don't care? Also, why do women like to make us jealous every once in a while by allowing another male to flirt with them, but God forbid, the moment some female lad starts flirting with us they go ballistic?
 

Achronos

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JamesR said:
Why do women want to talk so much
The answer to your question is in this sentence.

and where can I meet an Orthodox girl my age who's at least decently attractive, intelligent and could actually hold her weight in a deep, philosophical discussion unlike so many people who just don't care?
Is this your next television pilot pitch on the most elusive woman in the world?

Also, why do women like to make us jealous every once in a while by allowing another male to flirt with them, but God forbid, the moment some female lad starts flirting with us they go ballistic?
I've never had a woman do that to me. If they did, I got a laundry list of contacts that'll end that real quick.
 
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