Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column

[primuspilus]

Why do women want to talk so much

because they have alot to talk about.

where can I meet an Orthodox girl my age who's at least decently attractive, intelligent and could actually hold her weight in a deep, philosophical discussion unlike so many people who just don't care?

Umm......the library maybe? Ummm....wow....good question. I just happened to luck out

Also, why do women like to make us jealous every once in a while by allowing another male to flirt with them, but God forbid, the moment some female lad starts flirting with us they go ballistic?

IMHO this is because their signifigant other does not give them enough attention, so it makes them feel good when men show them attention. I say this because I give my wife alot of attention (we also ENJOY each other's company) and hence, she does not let men flirt with her.

PP

 

[vamrat]

Why do women want to talk so much and where can I meet an Orthodox girl my age who's at least decently attractive, intelligent and could actually hold her weight in a deep, philosophical discussion unlike so many people who just don't care? Also, why do women like to make us jealous every once in a while by allowing another male to flirt with them, but God forbid, the moment some female lad starts flirting with us they go ballistic?

For your second question, I really don't have an answer.  I know my former GF always went ballistic when I glanced at another nice looking girl, but I generally just dismissed it. 

As for your first question, I would suggest you go to Alaska and swim west a bit.  But then, you've already been nagged to death on another thread about this.  Meeting an Orthodox woman is hard.  You can read my complaints in plenty of threads on here about their scarcity so I won't trouble you anymore.  As for all the criteria, I have never seen an ugly Orthodox woman.  I'm sure you can find one somewhere, but I've never seen one.  (Note, I have seen MANY Orthodox women, just not unmarried ones.  Caveat 2 - I am referring to ones specifically in the vicinity of my age range.  I don't have a thing for grannies...excuse me, babushki, so I am not including them in my attractiveness quotient.)  Intelligent - go back to Alaska and swim to the west.  I have been searching and searching for an uneducated Russian woman.  Not that I have an interest in stupid women, it's just kinda like the four leaved clover thing.  It doesn't really do anything useful, but it's an accomplishment to say you found one.

As for conversations, I was at a dinner with a number of Russian friends last night, and after getting one of the words translated for me, I gathered that they were talking about how Americans are not good conversationalists!  I was somewhat offended, but only gay people and women are capable of being offended so I kept it to myself.  I was silent pretty much the whole night though when I did try and say a few things (with numerous corrections) they did mention that my accent is almost perfect.  So yeah, Russians seem to enjoy good conversation, it's just that when you get any number of them together they aren't going to speak English just for your sake.

With conversations, make sure you listen to what she has to say and try not to just talk about your interests.  I've had this problem my entire life and have been working on correcting it.  The current girl I am seeing is half deaf, but she can read lips, and honestly, some of the best conversations I have had in my life have been with her...so needless to say I am hoping she doesn't dump me.  What I am trying to say is, you don't know where a good conversationalist is going to pop up, but you need to let her do some of the talking as well (and by some I mean most of it).

 

[vamrat]

Ok so I've been thinking about this for awhile now, and since we live in the 21st century (whatever that means) I'm curious what exactly is the best way to find great women?

Has the search migrated to Facebook and these dating sites, or is more of the chance encounter in person at whatever venue, be it school, work, a bar, etc.

Also can someone clear up whether its a myth or not that if you want to find a nice woman to date and eventually marry you don't go to places like a bar to find them.'

EDIT: I just wanted to say Asteriktos' posts are a goldmine. Someone needs to publish them ASAP.

EDIT DOS: Do not assume I am even thinking about dating/relationships/whatever. I'm mildly curious about the above.

On finding women folk at the bar - I've never done it.  I've heard that it's a great place for a one night stand, and know people who pulled off that coup, but that's not my modus operandi.  If I wasn't on Xanax I'd do a bit of research and let you know, but I'm not supposed to mix it with alcohol.

Dating online - for all it's problems this has been the best method for me.  Timing has a lot to do with whether or not you will have a relationship.  If you meet a girl and she is not ready or interested at that moment, you've got little chance.  At least with online dating you can assume that they are looking for a relationship. Also, if you are like me and have trouble meeting women, then this is as good a place as any to start.

Now that I have extolled the virtues of online dating, let me tell you about the crap.  (Oh, and before I go on, my credentials - every date I have been on has been with someone I met online, with one exception, but she was really just a good friend going through a crappy break up and I was mostly going out with her to help her get her mind off of it.  It never went anywhere after that.  But other than that one instance, I have spent a lot of time wading through it and have a good idea as to what I am talking about.)

Basically, a wise man once referred to online dating as searching through a 50 gallon drum full of feces of varying viscosity trying to search for one small nugget of gold.  (Oh, and that wise man was in fact me.)  That's pretty much it.  Most of the women on there, at least in my area, are stuck up b***hes with one glamorous photograph from when they were five years younger and forty pounds lighter and who wouldn't give any guy short of Johnny Depp or Brad Pitt a second look.  And you know what, that's fine by me, because these ones are pretty easy to spot.  (Pay special attention for the "duck lips".  You know what I mean.  Stay away from her.  She's stuck up and likely has a venereal disease.) 
The worst of the worst aside, it's really hard to get women to respond to you.  Don't so any of that "winking" BS.  I only do that if there is a girl who is sub par on the beauty side but seems like she has a good personality or at least is desperate.  Then the wink is my way of saying, "if you put the effort into getting the ball rolling I'll probably respond, but there is no way in hell I'm going to get rejected by you".  The best thing you can do is perfect your profile, in fact make two profiles, one as a man and one as a woman so you can use the female profile to look at your competition.  About 90% of the women on dating sites are pretty shallow and/or vapid so as long as you don't include a photo, writing a female profile is pretty easy.  But yes, perfect your profile, get a few decent photos of yourself (and you might either invest in a professional photographer or a friend with a decent camera because the reversed cell phone photos really aren't all that good).  Then just wait.  Every couple of years a woman might like your profile and send you an email.  This is actually the only way I've ever gotten to the dating phase with a woman, is if she came to me first.  Most of them, if you come to them they get a boost of pride and then get picky.  If they are just spamming out email out of desperation, when you get back to them with a well thought out email, they tend to be more receptive.

If you want anymore online dating advice, I am always willing to help!

 

[Melodist]

On finding women folk at the bar - I've never done it.  I've heard that it's a great place for a one night stand

FWIW, I've known more than one married couple who's story begins as "(The other person) was supposed to be a one night stand".

 

[Asteriktos]

For your edification, inspiration, and most likely simply for your amusement, let old Asteriktos explain how things worked for him the first time around (this is all true)...

I met a girl on an orthodox yahoo email discussion group. We agreed to meet in a chat room so we could talk. After dropping about 24 hints (not exaggerating) I finally realised that she wanted me to ask her out, so I did. We began dating, though since she lived about 90 miles away from me we only met about once a week in person, and talked online or on the phone the rest of the week. After about 2 1/2 months of dating a marriage proposal was made. By her. Online. I know what you're thinking: "Justin! that's amazing! because when I think about how I want things to go, that's exactly what goes through my mind!"  True, true. About nine months later we found ourselves together in a homeless shelter (the reasons aren't relevant to this discussion  ;D ), and eventually got an apartment together. But living together is like the uber-ultra-mega-sin, so we didn't like that situation. At the beginning of December we asked our priest to move the marriage up from the following spring/summer to... well... December. He agreed. We got married on a budget of about $1000, which was itself a wedding present. We were married on Dec. 28th, the 1 year anniversary of our first date. And we all lived happily ever after (until we separated 7 years later and then she went and died). So I guess what I'm saying is... um... what am I saying?  Oh yeah... you never know how things will work out. So... good luck!

 

[JamesR]

All right, thank you folks on the advice on how to get a girl. Now I just need help in one more area. How do you get over a crazy girl who friendzoned you, used you, led you on and somehow kept you under her control for four years? I'm so used to being under her control that I am not used to this freedom and I can't adapt to the fact that I am actually free and can search for another woman.

 

[FormerReformer]

All right, thank you folks on the advice on how to get a girl. Now I just need help in one more area. How do you get over a crazy girl who friendzoned you, used you, led you on and somehow kept you under her control for four years? I'm so used to being under her control that I am not used to this freedom and I can't adapt to the fact that I am actually free and can search for another woman.

Not being mean, voice of experience, and all that:

You stop blaming her for the fact that you were not completely honest in your intentions (in order for you to be "friendzoned" it must mean you were not ok with just being friends- you should have made this clear from the outset and broke things off at the point she indicated she only wanted to be friends), that you allowed yourself to be used, that you were easily led, and that you basically gave her everything she wanted in an attempt to manipulate her into a relationship.

 

[JamesR]

So how do I escape that mindset since I screwed up so badly?

 

[Schultz]

So how do I escape that mindset since I screwed up so badly?

Just what FormerReformer said.  Stop blaming her.  You screwed up.  Get over it and get over yourself.

Also speaking from the voice of experience.

 

[dzheremi]

I have a lot of friends these days who are now happily married (getting to that age, I guess), including several women. As they're happily spoken for now, they're probably a bit more honest than is absolutely necessary regarding these sorts of things. One thing a friend of mine said regarding her years of singlehood (paraphrased): "All that 'friend zone' business is just a label that pathetic men came up with to justify being bitter towards women who ended up with someone else." It's pretty blunt, but seems true from my experience. Women are like bees: They can smell fear, or perhaps more commonly, insecurity/lack of confidence. If you were around this girl for so long and wanted something more but didn't actually make the effort for whatever reason, then whose fault is that? Yours. If you made the effort and she said "nah, I'd rather just remain friends", then whose fault is that? Still not hers, but it is your fault if you fixate on it and get bitter and start to blame her, as though she was supposed to want to be with you but is somehow not getting it or something. It doesn't work that way. You get shot down, alright, move on. You're young. It'll happen a lot. (This is not a comment on your as a person, since I don't know you, just a general comment that I can make from experience that you don't have yet.)

Again, the right way to deal with this stuff is not to become bitter and hold onto the past. In fact, there's something to be said for a person who learns whatever it is they need to learn from it and moves on and is stronger for it. It shows maturity and a certain confidence that will help your chances next time you meet some girl you'd like to be with. You have to learn to take a few beatings to the ego to get it down to a proportion relative to what you can actually offer in a relationship (whatever that is; that's another you'll figure out from experience, as you mature). There are already so many men out there with the "friend zone" or "I deserve a model even though I'm _____ [out of shape, bald, smelly, racist, live in my mom's basement at 45, etc.]" chip on their shoulder. Work on figuring yourself out so that you're not that guy and you'll already be ahead of the game.

 

[IXOYE]

In real life we usually hear that if you are looking for someone to join (or attend) a large parish.  That can be hard due to great distance from one.

I don't know how much success people have with online dating in the Orthodox world.  Yet I know of a new yahoo group which I can't post here due to the rules.

 

[ZealousZeal]

One thing a friend of mine said regarding her years of singlehood (paraphrased): "All that 'friend zone' business is just a label that pathetic men came up with to justify being bitter towards women who ended up with someone else."

Word.

Confidence (not to be confused with cockiness) is hot. Whininess (word?) is not. Not a comment on you as a person James, just woman advice from an actual woman. You're welcome.    

 

[FormerReformer]

So how do I escape that mindset since I screwed up so badly?

The same way you escape the mindset of all resentment- you accept those things that were your fault, and forgive those that were hers, and do it over and over 'til it sticks.

 

[Asteriktos]

I don't know how much success people have with online dating in the Orthodox world.  Yet I know of a new yahoo group which I can't post here due to the rules.

As I understood it, the rule used to be that you could post a link to another site/forum/group if it was relevant to the discussion and you weren't just trying to advertise or divert the conversation. Don't know if that's still the rule though...

 

[akimori makoto]

Oh, please. We all know that there exists a certain species of woman who is quite aware of her effect on her infatuated male friend who, for whatever reason, does not live up to her standards of f---ability and is fated to forever remain in the friend zone, where his infatuation can be exploited for emotional or physical gain.

There is a lot of truth to what you guys have said above, but some of it totally lacks balance and is unnecessarily hard on James.

Everyone these days is in such a rush to avoid appearing to be a misogynist that even the most blatant and obvious and secretly-agreed-by-all faults of certain members of the fairer sex are somehow unmentionable.

 

[akimori makoto]

One thing a friend of mine said regarding her years of singlehood (paraphrased): "All that 'friend zone' business is just a label that pathetic men came up with to justify being bitter towards women who ended up with someone else."

Word.

Confidence (not to be confused with cockiness) is hot. Whininess (word?) is not. Not a comment on you as a person James, just woman advice from an actual woman. You're welcome.    

How are women able to get away with saying such things but if I say I prefer a woman who doesn't realise how amazing she is and is somewhat delicate in speech and manner I am immediately branded a chauvinist who wants a doormat, not a woman?

(This is not a criticism of you, ZealousZeal, but of society's apparent double standards).

 

[akimori makoto]

So how do I escape that mindset since I screwed up so badly?

James, the truth is probably somewhere in between how you described the girl above and what these dudes have told you since -- or perhaps a bit of both at once.

Don't be so hard on yourself. You are a human being.

 

[ZealousZeal]

Oh, please. We all know that there exists a certain species of woman who is quite aware of her effect on her infatuated male friend who, for whatever reason, does not live up to her standards of f---ability and is fated to forever remain in the friend zone, where his infatuation can be exploited for emotional or physical gain.

For sure- I have a word for this type of woman, but I think it might break forum rules and I'd rather not get moderated after finally coming out of lurkdom. 

One thing a friend of mine said regarding her years of singlehood (paraphrased): "All that 'friend zone' business is just a label that pathetic men came up with to justify being bitter towards women who ended up with someone else."

Word.

Confidence (not to be confused with cockiness) is hot. Whininess (word?) is not. Not a comment on you as a person James, just woman advice from an actual woman. You're welcome.   

How are women able to get away with saying such things but if I say I prefer a woman who doesn't realise how amazing she is and is somewhat delicate in speech and manner I am immediately branded a chauvinist who wants a doormat, not a woman?

(This is not a criticism of you, ZealousZeal, but of society's apparent double standards).

I hear you. Haters gonna hate. I don't think that makes you a chauvinist at all... that's a legitimate preference.

 

[vamrat]

One thing a friend of mine said regarding her years of singlehood (paraphrased): "All that 'friend zone' business is just a label that pathetic men came up with to justify being bitter towards women who ended up with someone else."

Word.

Confidence (not to be confused with cockiness) is hot. Whininess (word?) is not. Not a comment on you as a person James, just woman advice from an actual woman. You're welcome.    

There is only one way to gain confidence and that is by experience, and more importantly from success.  Both of those things have to come from somewhere.  (Confidence that does not come from success is either arrogance or a special breed of stupidity - one that is entirely unable to recognize the chance of failure.)

How many women are out there who complain about being treated like crap by men but won't give an otherwise decent fellow a chance because he is uncomfortable?  I know plenty of them.  I also know plenty of men who are uncomfortable around women because of failure after failure followed by impending failure.  When they finally met a girl who gave them a chance both of them were rewarded by a wonderful relationship.

I have also had male friends who were quite adept at getting up a girl's skirt and then ditching them right afterwards.  Oh well, at least they were confident, since that is really what matters.



As a side note, Aki, there are times I really really like you.  No homo.

 

[ZealousZeal]

One thing a friend of mine said regarding her years of singlehood (paraphrased): "All that 'friend zone' business is just a label that pathetic men came up with to justify being bitter towards women who ended up with someone else."

Word.

Confidence (not to be confused with cockiness) is hot. Whininess (word?) is not. Not a comment on you as a person James, just woman advice from an actual woman. You're welcome.    

There is only one way to gain confidence and that is by experience, and more importantly from success.  Both of those things have to come from somewhere.  (Confidence that does not come from success is either arrogance or a special breed of stupidity - one that is entirely unable to recognize the chance of failure.)

How many women are out there who complain about being treated like crap by men but won't give an otherwise decent fellow a chance because he is uncomfortable?  I know plenty of them.  I also know plenty of men who are uncomfortable around women because of failure after failure followed by impending failure.  When they finally met a girl who gave them a chance both of them were rewarded by a wonderful relationship.

I have also had male friends who were quite adept at getting up a girl's skirt and then ditching them right afterwards.  Oh well, at least they were confident, since that is really what matters.



As a side note, Aki, there are times I really really like you.  No homo.

Oh please- I didn't say confidence is "what really matters", or all you need is confidence, or anything of the sort. Moving forward after any sort of failed relationship, it's much better to be confident (in what you've learned, the experience you gained, etc.) than resentful, bitter, and whiney. I attempted to distinguish between confidence and cockiness, which is confidence gone jerky. There's a difference, and it's important.

That's all.

 

[dzheremi]

Oh, please. We all know that there exists a certain species of woman who is quite aware of her effect on her infatuated male friend who, for whatever reason, does not live up to her standards of f---ability and is fated to forever remain in the friend zone, where his infatuation can be exploited for emotional or physical gain.

Such women are not worth anyone's time. In fact, one of the reasons why I haven't done so well at the whole "remaining friends with exes" idea is because when I tried to do that I had the distinct sense that it was developing into one of those kinds of situations; y'know, the whole "well, my CURRENT boyfriend is an jerk, but I can always call Jeremy or go see him" (the flip-side of this is, of course, that I let her think that for a while before realizing that it was bad for all involved, so I wasn't exactly helping the situation). It's just weird and wrong. Avoid those women and those situations like the plague.

Everyone these days is in such a rush to avoid appearing to be a misogynist that even the most blatant and obvious and secretly-agreed-by-all faults of certain members of the fairer sex are somehow unmentionable.

I wouldn't say that. Given the quite feminized forced-equality ideas that are accepted in today's society, I imagine that I'm probably more likely to be labeled misogynistic than not. So be it. That doesn't mean that my friend's observation is necessarily wrong, or at least I haven't found it to be wrong so far in my life (and hearing it coming from someone I know has a good head on her shoulders and doesn't go in for double-standards really helped me work through some of what James is apparently is apparently dealing with, so I thought it might be helpful to retell it here).

 

[IXOYE]

I don't know how much success people have with online dating in the Orthodox world.  Yet I know of a new yahoo group which I can't post here due to the rules.

As I understood it, the rule used to be that you could post a link to another site/forum/group if it was relevant to the discussion and you weren't just trying to advertise or divert the conversation. Don't know if that's still the rule though...

What say our moderators?

 

[FormerReformer]

Oh, please. We all know that there exists a certain species of woman who is quite aware of her effect on her infatuated male friend who, for whatever reason, does not live up to her standards of f---ability and is fated to forever remain in the friend zone, where his infatuation can be exploited for emotional or physical gain.

There is a lot of truth to what you guys have said above, but some of it totally lacks balance and is unnecessarily hard on James.

Everyone these days is in such a rush to avoid appearing to be a misogynist that even the most blatant and obvious and secretly-agreed-by-all faults of certain members of the fairer sex are somehow unmentionable.

I could care less about whether or not I appear to be misogynist- what I do care about is honesty. Yes, certain girls have their share of blame for exploiting emotionally weak and immature guys, but in the end, if you're being used you have to realize that the only one to really blame is yourself for putting yourself out there to be used- if you weren't emotionally weak and immature, if you had been willing to say "no" and put your foot down, if you hadn't been thinking with the entirely wrong head, you might have avoided some pain and heartache. By all means, blame women who seek and destroy infatuated guys, but blame yourself when you fall for it.

 

[dzheremi]

Well put, FormerReformer.

 

[That person]

First, then, you fledgeling troopers in passion's service, comes the task of finding the object for your love.

All right, so I think I've pretty much got this part down.

Next, you must labour to woo and win your lady.
Thirdly, ensure the affair will last.
Such are my limitations, such the ground I will cover, the race I propose to run.

How do these work exactly?

 

[Azurestone]

This thread has gotten oddly serious.

 

[JamesR]

Probably going to spark a lot of controversy and hate here....but how come when a woman stays in an abusive relationship, everyone feels bad for her and acts like she is a victim. Yet, when a guy gets emotionally exploited by a woman in a relationship everyone acts like it is his fault for allowing it to happen? If that is the case, then couldn't one also argue that a woman who has been abused is guilty for staying in the relationship? But that would be absurd, so I find it strange that this type of argument can go either way.

Anyway....I'll try to sum up what I think I have learned so far. The truth is probably somewhere in between all of the comments I have received here, and while she is probably guilty for exploiting me, I am also guilty for allowing it to happen? So the best thing to do is avoid women who are capable of that but to also focus on myself and try to build confidence and success?

 

[vamrat]

First, then, you fledgeling troopers in passion's service, comes the task of finding the object for your love.

All right, so I think I've pretty much got this part down.

Next, you must labour to woo and win your lady.
Thirdly, ensure the affair will last.
Such are my limitations, such the ground I will cover, the race I propose to run.

How do these work exactly?

Don't be shy about promising; it's promises girls are undone by;
Invoke any gods you please to endorse your performance.
Jupiter smiles from heaven on foresworn lovers, lets all their perjuries blow away unrequited.
(He used to swear falsely, by Styx, to Juno - So looks now with favour on others who do the same.)

Don't torture your hair, though, with curling irons; don't pumice your legs into smoothness.
Leave that to Mother Cybele's votaries, ululating in chorus with their Phrygian modes.
Real men shouldn't primp their good looks.
Keep pleasantly clean, take exercise, work up an outdoor tan;
make quite sure your clothes fit and don't show spots; don't lace your shoes too tightly or ignore any rusty buckles,
or slop around around in too large a fitting.
Don't let some incompetent barber ruin your looks; both hair and bear demand expert attention.
Keep your nails pared, and dirt-free; don't let those long hairs sprout in your nostrils,
make sure your breath is never offensive, avoid the rank male stench that wrinkles noses.
Beyond this is for wanton women - or any half-man who wants to attract men.

 

[Azurestone]

Probably going to spark a lot of controversy and hate here....but how come when a woman stays in an abusive relationship, everyone feels bad for her and acts like she is a victim. Yet, when a guy gets emotionally exploited by a woman in a relationship everyone acts like it is his fault for allowing it to happen? If that is the case, then couldn't one also argue that a woman who has been abused is guilty for staying in the relationship? But that would be absurd, so I find it strange that this type of argument can go either way.

Anyway....I'll try to sum up what I think I have learned so far. The truth is probably somewhere in between all of the comments I have received here, and while she is probably guilty for exploiting me, I am also guilty for allowing it to happen? So the best thing to do is avoid women who are capable of that but to also focus on myself and try to build confidence and success?

Because men and women aren't equal, no matter what people want to pretend. We both have our own failings, and as men we expect you to 'man-the-F-up".

 

[That person]

Invoke any gods you please to endorse your performance.

So there's this really cute cool agnostic girl I've known for a while. Does the same principle apply to lack of gods?

Keep pleasantly clean, take exercise, work up an outdoor tan;

This might be my problem here...

both hair and bear demand expert attention.

Now this just seems like common sense.

 

[Asteriktos]

This thread has gotten oddly serious.

If only orthonorm were around to advise!  Alas, he has abandoned us, and we will soon run aground on the shoals of broken hearts borne of ignorance!

 

[akimori makoto]

Probably going to spark a lot of controversy and hate here....but how come when a woman stays in an abusive relationship, everyone feels bad for her and acts like she is a victim. Yet, when a guy gets emotionally exploited by a woman in a relationship everyone acts like it is his fault for allowing it to happen? If that is the case, then couldn't one also argue that a woman who has been abused is guilty for staying in the relationship? But that would be absurd, so I find it strange that this type of argument can go either way.

Anyway....I'll try to sum up what I think I have learned so far. The truth is probably somewhere in between all of the comments I have received here, and while she is probably guilty for exploiting me, I am also guilty for allowing it to happen? So the best thing to do is avoid women who are capable of that but to also focus on myself and try to build confidence and success?

Because men and women aren't equal, no matter what people want to pretend. We both have our own failings, and as men we expect you to 'man-the-F-up".

My only expectation of him is that he learns from his pain, but perhaps I am weak and effeminate (Lord forbid).

 

[Azurestone]

Probably going to spark a lot of controversy and hate here....but how come when a woman stays in an abusive relationship, everyone feels bad for her and acts like she is a victim. Yet, when a guy gets emotionally exploited by a woman in a relationship everyone acts like it is his fault for allowing it to happen? If that is the case, then couldn't one also argue that a woman who has been abused is guilty for staying in the relationship? But that would be absurd, so I find it strange that this type of argument can go either way.

Anyway....I'll try to sum up what I think I have learned so far. The truth is probably somewhere in between all of the comments I have received here, and while she is probably guilty for exploiting me, I am also guilty for allowing it to happen? So the best thing to do is avoid women who are capable of that but to also focus on myself and try to build confidence and success?

Because men and women aren't equal, no matter what people want to pretend. We both have our own failings, and as men we expect you to 'man-the-F-up".

My only expectation of him is that he learns from his pain, but perhaps I am weak and effeminate (Lord forbid).

probably  ;D

 

[akimori makoto]

As a side note, Aki, there are times I really really like you.  No homo.

Wasn't there something in another thread about your shifting sex/gender?

 

[FormerReformer]

Probably going to spark a lot of controversy and hate here....but how come when a woman stays in an abusive relationship, everyone feels bad for her and acts like she is a victim. Yet, when a guy gets emotionally exploited by a woman in a relationship everyone acts like it is his fault for allowing it to happen? If that is the case, then couldn't one also argue that a woman who has been abused is guilty for staying in the relationship? But that would be absurd, so I find it strange that this type of argument can go either way.

There is a large degree to which it is the woman's fault- especially when she jumps from one abusive relationship to another (how's that for misogyny?). The biggest problem here isn't necessarily a double standard, it is a skewed secular standard where nothing is ever anyone's fault and everyone is a victim. Now, are there certain factors which might cause a woman to seek out abusive relationships- say coming from an abusive home? Certainly. And I suspect you could pinpoint certain aspects of a guy who constantly allows himself to be an emotional punching bag for manipulative women to his relationship with his mother. But this does not excuse, in any way, the inability to determine a certain pattern and try and break from it.

At the same time, no one can get fed up quicker with a woman with an inability to break from a cycle of abuse than other women who did so- a woman who's been there is a lot more likely to say "For cryin' out loud, get out of it!" Much of the advice you've received here comes from guys who have been there.

Women also get far more sympathy because their abuse tends to be far more visible- black eyes, bruises, missing patches of hair, and in the worst cases a coffin. A physically abused woman is likely to be murdered, and emotionally abused man- suicide.

Anyway....I'll try to sum up what I think I have learned so far. The truth is probably somewhere in between all of the comments I have received here, and while she is probably guilty for exploiting me, I am also guilty for allowing it to happen? So the best thing to do is avoid women who are capable of that but to also focus on myself and try to build confidence and success?

Well, to tie it all back to a religious forum the best thing to do is to focus on your spiritual development and success in the arena of the soul. Do this, and you will gain the wisdom necessary to judge the qualities of the women you meet- to look beyond attraction, whether physical, intellectual, or emotional- and find one that is actually worth time, effort, and sacrifice to be with.

 

[JamesR]

Don't worry I learned from my pain and I'm sure not going to let that happen to me again.

 

[FormerReformer]

Don't worry I learned from my pain and I'm sure not going to let that happen to me again.

Again, not to be mean but...

You most likely will.

If it happens, remember the lesson of Lent- don't despair, when you fall get back up.

 

[akimori makoto]

Impressive stuff, as always, FormerReformer.

 

[Azurestone]

This is supposed to be a light-hearted thread, after all.

 

[FormerReformer]

This is supposed to be a light-hearted thread, after all.

You can be my wingman anytime.