"Pan-African Orthodox Christian Church": um, who are they?

qawe

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Severian said:
Antonious Nikolas said:
Or, as qawe said, just visit your local Coptic "mission parish".  The Coptic Church before rampant and egregious heteropraxis was permitted in the name of keeping "za youzh" in the pews, and no bishop had the fortitude to call it what it was; the Coptic Church after.
The painful irony of all this is that we, "za youzh (at least the ones I know)," are not at all interested in jettisoning our faith and Orthopraxy. Most of my friends are fellow Coptic Orthodox and the overwhelming majority of us are eager to grow in our faith through Patristic, Monastic and Liturgical study. We are secure in our ecclesiological identity and are ashamed of those who want to dilute our faith in the name of "winning souls" to the Church. We WANT to read the Fathers, not some Protestant dribble. We WANT to sing Tasbeha, not "praise and worship" songs.
This is true.  In the West, those who are insecure become agnostics.  Those who are secure remain staunchly Orthodox.  Only those who are actually deceived by prominent Charismatic theological ignoramuses in the Church are attracted towards Protestantism - but are staunch in their faith and would have been Orthodox had they not been deceived.  We in the West who are tempted by syncretism and anthropocentrism have far more attractive options than the Charismatism those Egyptians who are similarly tempted opt for.  Christianity in the West necessarily involves being radically countercultural, whereas this is not the case in the same way in Egypt.  In the West, if someone is demanding Hillsong because they are not prepared to be countercultural, they are a lost cause in relation to almost any organised religion.
 

AntoniousNikolas

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Severian said:
Antonious Nikolas said:
Or, as qawe said, just visit your local Coptic "mission parish".  The Coptic Church before rampant and egregious heteropraxis was permitted in the name of keeping "za youzh" in the pews, and no bishop had the fortitude to call it what it was; the Coptic Church after.
The painful irony of all this is that we, "za youzh (at least the ones I know)," are not at all interested in jettisoning our faith and Orthopraxy. Most of my friends are fellow Coptic Orthodox and the overwhelming majority of us are eager to grow in our faith through Patristic, Monastic and Liturgical study. We are secure in our ecclesiological identity and are ashamed of those who want to dilute our faith in the name of "winning souls" to the Church. We WANT to read the Fathers, not some Protestant dribble. We WANT to sing Tasbeha, not "praise and worship" songs.
God bless you and reward you.  I'll try to keep this in mind next time I show up at one of our youth events and see some clown with a six string singing Matt Redman songs, and some "cool" priest on the sidelines closing his eyes and bobbing his head.

qawe said:
In the West, those who are insecure become agnostics.  Those who are secure remain staunchly Orthodox.  Only those who are actually deceived by prominent Charismatic theological ignoramuses in the Church are attracted towards Protestantism - but are staunch in their faith and would have been Orthodox had they not been deceived.  We in the West who are tempted by syncretism and anthropocentrism have far more attractive options than the Charismatism those Egyptians who are similarly tempted opt for.  Christianity in the West necessarily involves being radically countercultural, whereas this is not the case in the same way in Egypt.  In the West, if someone is demanding Hillsong because they are not prepared to be countercultural, they are a lost cause in relation to almost any organised religion.
+1

Very well put.
 

podkarpatska

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I so tire of the bashing of the west, the enlightenment and so on. I am sure we all would be happier and closer to God by remaining in bondage, by remaining serfs, slaves, living as superstitious and  illiterate peasants etc.. beholden to the 'benevolent' rule of an 'enlightened, God fearing ruler' .... Every age of man has been tempted by darkness, evil and injustice. The modern age is no different.

This is when and where we live. This is where we have come into existence for our own journey and our salvation and Theosis. The Church and our Faith is our Ark, whether it is guided to the rocks or sails as smoothly as is possible in our fallen world is our task.
 

Minnesotan

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podkarpatska said:
I so tire of the bashing of the west, the enlightenment and so on. I am sure we all would be happier and closer to God by remaining in bondage, by remaining serfs, slaves, living as superstitious and  illiterate peasants etc.. beholden to the 'benevolent' rule of an 'enlightened, God fearing ruler' .... Every age of man has been tempted by darkness, evil and injustice. The modern age is no different.

This is when and where we live. This is where we have come into existence for our own journey and our salvation and Theosis. The Church and our Faith is our Ark, whether it is guided to the rocks or sails as smoothly as is possible in our fallen world is our task.
+100

A lot of "anti-modernists" and traditionalists who romanticize the distant past probably wouldn't survive very long back in the time periods they lionize. (And I'm saying this as someone who has a natural tendency to think the same way. I think it's a form of escapism that appeals to people who are dissatisfied with their everyday lives).

It reminds me in a way of suburban white kids who listen to gangsta rap, wear do-rags and try to act as inner-city as possible. Would they actually enjoy living in Compton? I doubt it.
 

AntoniousNikolas

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podkarpatska said:
I so tire of the bashing of the west, the enlightenment and so on. I am sure we all would be happier and closer to God by remaining in bondage, by remaining serfs, slaves, living as superstitious and  illiterate peasants etc.. beholden to the 'benevolent' rule of an 'enlightened, God fearing ruler' .... Every age of man has been tempted by darkness, evil and injustice. The modern age is no different.

This is when and where we live. This is where we have come into existence for our own journey and our salvation and Theosis. The Church and our Faith is our Ark, whether it is guided to the rocks or sails as smoothly as is possible in our fallen world is our task.
This seems like sort of a non-sequitur.  Who is doing that in this thread?  Are you referring to something on the website of the church in question?
 

Minnesotan

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Antonious Nikolas said:
podkarpatska said:
I so tire of the bashing of the west, the enlightenment and so on. I am sure we all would be happier and closer to God by remaining in bondage, by remaining serfs, slaves, living as superstitious and  illiterate peasants etc.. beholden to the 'benevolent' rule of an 'enlightened, God fearing ruler' .... Every age of man has been tempted by darkness, evil and injustice. The modern age is no different.

This is when and where we live. This is where we have come into existence for our own journey and our salvation and Theosis. The Church and our Faith is our Ark, whether it is guided to the rocks or sails as smoothly as is possible in our fallen world is our task.
This seems like sort of a non-sequitur.  Who is doing that in this thread?  Are you referring to something on the website of the church in question?
IrishPilgrim was doing that in the "Irish Orthodoxy" thread. Perhaps podkarpatska meant to post the comment there.
 

qawe

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Severian said:
The painful irony of all this is that we, "za youzh (at least the ones I know)," are not at all interested in jettisoning our faith and Orthopraxy. Most of my friends are fellow Coptic Orthodox and the overwhelming majority of us are eager to grow in our faith through Patristic, Monastic and Liturgical study. We are secure in our ecclesiological identity and are ashamed of those who want to dilute our faith in the name of "winning souls" to the Church. We WANT to read the Fathers, not some Protestant dribble. We WANT to sing Tasbeha, not "praise and worship" songs.
This is true, to a significant extent even in the most liberal parishes.

The worst part for me is seeing youth who have been more or less Orthodox in their high school years  graduate school and actually become corrupted by the Pentecostalism in the youth meetings and other meetings.  Silly debates about "meeting people where they are" aside, our churches are leading good Orthodox Christians away from Christ.
 
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