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Papal Forgeries: A Road to Schism

Katechon

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Very worthwhile video on the history of the various decretals forged throughout the centuries which later during the time of photius and in the 11th century got used to prop up the notion of papal supremacy.

 

PorphyriosK

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I seem to remember hearing about a new book about to be published on the subject of medeival Latin forgeries, but not sure if it was ever released.

Below you can see Filioque inserted into manuscripts of St. Gregory the Great by medeival scribes.

 

Wandile

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I seem to remember hearing about a new book about to be published on the subject of medeival Latin forgeries, but not sure if it was ever released.

Below you can see Filioque inserted into manuscripts of St. Gregory the Great by medeival scribes.

Actually the author of this book does not seem so clued up on the topic as he has been exposed on a few occasions now to have made serious blunders due to a lack of scrupulosity in fact checking alleged forgeries.

This one is a case in point which was quite throughly proven to be a mistake by the author of this book to come. The author of the rumored book took the above manuscript and concluded based on it that the filioque was a forgery. In fact that interpolation was a correction to the text to authenticate it. The filioque statement in Pope St Gregory is authentic.

There is a person who has taken it upon himself to expose the mistakes the author has made in claiming certain texts are forgeries when I fact they are authentic because of these alleged forgeries making rounds and being used incorrectly. To the authors credit, on some cases he has taken correction quite well. However some his blunders are so unforgivable that he really has no business trying to write such a book.
 
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PorphyriosK

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Actually the author of this book does not seem so clued up on the topic as he has been exposed on a few occasions now to have made serious blunders due to a lack of scrupulosity in fact checking alleged forgeries.

This one is a case in point which was quite throughly proven to be a mistake by the author of this book to come. The author of the rumored book took the above manuscript and concluded based on it that the filioque was a forgery. In fact that interpolation was a correction to the text to authenticate it. The filioque statement in Pope St Gregory is authentic.

There is a person who has taken it upon himself to expose the mistakes the author has made in claiming certain texts are forgeries when I fact they are authentic because of these alleged forgeries making rounds and being used incorrectly. To the authors credit, on some cases he has taken correction quite well. However some his blunders are so unforgivable that he really has no business trying to write such a book.
Can you give any info on the title/author and a link to the person critiquing his work?
 

Katechon

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Actually the author of this book does not seem so clued up on the topic as he has been exposed on a few occasions now to have made serious blunders due to a lack of scrupulosity in fact checking alleged forgeries.

This one is a case in point which was quite throughly proven to be a mistake by the author of this book to come. The author of the rumored book took the above manuscript and concluded based on it that the filioque was a forgery. In fact that interpolation was a correction to the text to authenticate it. The filioque statement in Pope St Gregory is authentic.

There is a person who has taken it upon himself to expose the mistakes the author has made in claiming certain texts are forgeries when I fact they are authentic because of these alleged forgeries making rounds and being used incorrectly. To the authors credit, on some cases he has taken correction quite well. However some his blunders are so unforgivable that he really has no business trying to write such a book.
Are you making a case for the historicity of the pseudoisidorian decretals or the donation of Constantine? :D
 
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I think both of our confessions have produced fraudulent writings that have done damage. Unfortunately the RC ones were manipulated to a greater extent & did the greater damage.

A couple examples that come to mind are the Donation of Constantine & the pseudo Athanasian creed. I believe Aquinas, innocently, used the “ Donation” to bolster his papal supremacy argument. Hildegard of Bingen, innocently, used the “pseudo Athanasian” in support of the filioque.

A major example on our side is the Theodora “vision” but our damage control has been better.
 

Wandile

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I don’t think the Atahnasian creed is a forgery. It’s just Pseudepigraphic. The creed itself is ancient western symbol and captures the faith of the ancient west on the Holy Trinity quite beautifully. Many things in Christendom are falsely attributed to people mostly due piety or just some random tradition that we take for granted.
 

Samn!

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Ironically, from the 12th century on Byzantine canonists picked up on the Donation of Constantine and use it to bolster the claims of the Patriarchate of Constantinople... (A good summary of the forgery's Byzantine reception can be found here: https://www.academia.edu/download/32688716/Angelov_2009a_Donation_of_Constantine.pdf )
I cannot access it and moderate my internet use depending on how often I can get to WiFi spots. It seems to figure though that disinformation would just breed further misinformation. One time I recalled someone referring to the “Latin captivity” & I said I knew that the crusaders sacked Constantinople. I was told not that one but some sort of intellectual captivity of the Russian Church. Some of this stuff can really make a person’s head hurt.
 

PorphyriosK

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I cannot access it and moderate my internet use depending on how often I can get to WiFi spots. It seems to figure though that disinformation would just breed further misinformation. One time I recalled someone referring to the “Latin captivity” & I said I knew that the crusaders sacked Constantinople. I was told not that one but some sort of intellectual captivity of the Russian Church. Some of this stuff can really make a person’s head hurt.
The Latin captivity refers to the the time during the reign of Peter the Great when Russia sent their seminarians to schools in Poland.
 
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