mabsoota said:
lovely posts, jonathan, please post more!
(actually, maybe you have many things to do in 'real' life, and so you can concentrate your advice there if you prefer!)
if more people will know God better if you pray the night praises ('tasbeha') slowly over several days, that's fine by me.
personally i love to sing in church for 2 hours (we do 40% english 40% arabic and 20% coptic roughly).
my low attendance is because it is quite far to church and i have other responsibilities.
we also have a mixed age group, although it is slightly more than half people under the age of 30.
if you have people like me who love to sing a lot, maybe you could do a long one occasionally,
and those who have been learning with you could then join it as they will recognise it.
i think that separating out midnight and early morning praises is not at similar to allowing non orthodox influences in to the church.
Thank you Mabsoota.
Just to clarify: Vespers Praise is a normal service. It just happens to be identical in order to Lauds. So when we go to Church on a Sat evening (eve of Sun) for example, we would pray the Psalms, Vespers Praise, Evening Raising of Incense, Psalms, and Midnight Praise, which includes Lauds fused to the end. Vespers Praise and Lauds are identical, except Vespers praise is the end of the previous day and Lauds is in the current day, so the first is the Saturday Psali and Theotokia and the second is for Sunday. So what we are doing is not even splitting anything up from the normative modern practice.
As for allowing for people who like two hours... Of course, everything has to be balanced. But a weekday meeting before a talk isn't the place. Rather than having 15-20 min of Evangelical hymns, and then a talk as many such groups do, we spend 20 min saying Vespers Praise, fully, according the today's rite, and then have the talk. If we were to say Midnight Praise after the talk instead, I think that would be too much for most people with work the next day, especially if discussion has gone long. It would also leave not time for "hanging out", which is important if we're to be a community.
Of course, there are other times where longer services are warranted. At Sunday Vespers we of course say all of Midnight Praise (by my standards it's all).
I think the way things arose in my parish is an interesting story that is relevant:
My priest was the first to translate tasbeha into English, in the early '80's. He made a little booklet that has just the Canticles, Communion of saints, Saturday and Sunday Psali and Theotokia, Conclusions, and Doxology of Prime. I.e. just what is used an Annual Sundays. He and his son produced a
tape to teach how to fit the english words to the tunes. This tape became widely distributed. Years later, H.G. Anba Souriel told him that he learned Tasbeha from that tape. Another time, someone showed him a tape of "Australian Tasbeha" that turned out to be his own tape that had made it to the other side of the world.
He started introducing Tasbeha to his parish. If he had started with a "full" 2.5 hour service, or done "everything" rushed into 90 minutes, it would have flopped, and you'd have (maybe), 1-2 "deacons" attending, and the youth would flock to evangelical sources thinking they are "nourishment". Instead, he started doing Midnight Praise (to the end of the Communion of saints) one week, and Lauds (the second half) on alternating weeks. The youth (and many older people) got to know it and like it, and eventually it was switched to doing both "halfs" at once, rather than splitting it. Years later, I learned the Saturday hymns from Fr. Antony Paul, when we were just two young guys, and we introduced Vespers Praise. For many years, every week we celebrated the full potential of services, i.e. 9th, 11th, 12th, Vespers Praise, Raising of Incense, Midnight, and Midnight Praise every single week in our small parish. At some point, the long term for "The Waters of the Sea" (or "With the Split" in the more common translation) and "Let us give thanks" were introduced.
More recently, they discovered the new part 7 (Seven times every day is the original part 7), and parts 9-18, and it got noticeably longer. Two things happened: 1. Midnight Praise happens a lot less often now. 2. When it does happened, it's rushed to the point of absurdity to say everything, so it's impossible to contemplate anything. Also, while these guys fell in love with it when it was short, I don't see any of the new youth interested in it when it is so lengthened and rushed.
A while back I prayed it with just a few guys and insisted we do it the old way. They couldn't even carry the tune for the Theotokia anymore because they were so used to rushing. But they caught on, and they appreciated saying it in a reasonable way.
So because Tasbeha was introduced in the parish in such a reasonable way, all the youth fell in love with it, and are content with that rather than evangelical sources. So there are two sides to the coin: 1. We have to offer that rather than evangelical hymns at meetings, and 2. We have to celebrated in the parish in such a way that it is light enough for them to fall in love with and get to know.
I think it's more reasonable to always say the core that has to be said, and then to pick. One week say the long tunes for "The water" and "let us". Another week say the extraneous parts of the Theotokia, etc., but don't try to say everything every week. Maybe once a month say everything so that those who want more are fed too. But as soon as it is really rushing, say less. It's better to say the core well than to say every extra hymn poorly. And you know, the quality of the later additions is not the same as the core. Compare part 1-7 of the Theotokia with the latter half and you'll see the difference. And if you look at modern part 7, well, every part until then there is a footnote almost every line saying where in the Bible it came from, and then you get there and the footnotes stop. It's a different quality.
Anyone who wants to really say a lot is free to at home, or to visit a monastery. But what is done as our corporate worship in the parish should be compassionate, it should not overburden anyone so that we can all grow together.
