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Passion-bearer Harold II of England and Orthodoxy of England - need sources

Iconodule

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It could, but then the world would be forced to conclude that the Orthodox Church is a glorified D&D club.

Now that I think about it, if the EP could just call himself "Dungeon Master" instead of primus or whatever I could get on board with his agenda in a big way.
 

TheTrisagion

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Iconodule said:
It could, but then the world would be forced to conclude that the Orthodox Church is a glorified D&D club.

Now that I think about it, if the EP could just call himself "Dungeon Master" instead of primus or whatever I could get on board with his agenda in a big way.
Could I attend dressed as a level 13 Varangian Guard with Enchanted Axe of DOOM?
 

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Look, I understand the desire to give due veneration to the long-neglected early saints of the British Isles. If anything, I live slap bang in the middle of the Home Counties and I have first-hand experience with such research and initiative (like this - still very much under construction). But Harold II just doesn't make the cut. Even without factoring in the grey area of 'was he or wasn't he Orthodox', there's absolutely no evidence he was fighting a holy war. He didn't die in defence of Orthodoxy, but in defence of his throne. End of story. He may have been a good man, but martyr he wasn't, nor have there been any saintly manifestations around him. I wish the recons would let him rest in peace, rather than trying to saddle him with a mantle that doesn't fit.
 

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Arachne said:
Look, I understand the desire to give due veneration to the long-neglected early saints of the British Isles. If anything, I live slap bang in the middle of the Home Counties and I have first-hand experience with such research and initiative (like this - still very much under construction). But Harold II just doesn't make the cut. Even without factoring in the grey area of 'was he or wasn't he Orthodox', there's absolutely no evidence he was fighting a holy war. He didn't die in defence of Orthodoxy, but in defence of his throne. End of story. He may have been a good man, but martyr he wasn't, nor have there been any saintly manifestations around him. I wish the recons would let him rest in peace, rather than trying to saddle him with a mantle that doesn't fit.
Easy for you to say. You're Greek. You have a bazillion saints to choose from. Great Britain have a handful. You can't name every kid Patrick or Etheldreda.  :laugh:
 

Arachne

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TheTrisagion said:
Arachne said:
Look, I understand the desire to give due veneration to the long-neglected early saints of the British Isles. If anything, I live slap bang in the middle of the Home Counties and I have first-hand experience with such research and initiative (like this - still very much under construction). But Harold II just doesn't make the cut. Even without factoring in the grey area of 'was he or wasn't he Orthodox', there's absolutely no evidence he was fighting a holy war. He didn't die in defence of Orthodoxy, but in defence of his throne. End of story. He may have been a good man, but martyr he wasn't, nor have there been any saintly manifestations around him. I wish the recons would let him rest in peace, rather than trying to saddle him with a mantle that doesn't fit.
Easy for you to say. You're Greek. You have a bazillion saints to choose from. Great Britain have a handful. You can't name every kid Patrick or Etheldreda.  :laugh:
Audrey is an acceptable alternative. :p
 

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Iconodule said:
There is a difference between Papal supremacy as an ecclesial polity and as a dogma. The former case may be objectionable but is not heretical in itself. The Pope is hardly the only bishop to have grossly overstepped his canonical boundaries. The EP has claimed a right to meddle pretty much everywhere for a long time. It's not good but it's not heretical (yet).
If they object to one, they in practice object to another.
 

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Opus118 said:
rakovsky said:
Opus118 said:
An example reference (there are more academic ones, but this seems good enough):
http://www.caitlingreen.org/2015/05/medieval-new-england-black-sea.html
An interesting article. What is "St Paul's Law", mentioned in it:
They would not have St. Paul's law, which passes current in Micklegarth (Constantinople), but sought bishops and other clergymen from Hungary.
The medieval Vikings, who had contacts with the Byzantine empire through their expansion through eastern Europe (Varangians) used the Old Norse name Miklagarðr (from mikill 'big' and garðr 'city'), later Miklagard and "Micklegarth". This name lives on in the modern Icelandic name Mikligarður and Faroese Miklagarður.Wikipedia: "Names of Istanbul"
I do not remember this precisely, but it either means the Patriarch of Constantinople or the Byzantine liturgies.
By why St Paul's law is the name?
 

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rakovsky said:
Iconodule said:
There is a difference between Papal supremacy as an ecclesial polity and as a dogma. The former case may be objectionable but is not heretical in itself. The Pope is hardly the only bishop to have grossly overstepped his canonical boundaries. The EP has claimed a right to meddle pretty much everywhere for a long time. It's not good but it's not heretical (yet).
If they object to one, they in practice object to another.
Since "the other" wasn't around at the time, not sure what relevance this has. Also, as has been stated, the Peter's Pence was in force in Harold's time. His excommunication by Rome was a major blow to morale, which suggests he recognized some degree of Papal jurisdiction over himself.
 

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TheTrisagion said:
Those who are advocating he be deemed a martyr are arguing that William the Conqueror was a pawn of the Pope who was fighting to exert papal authority of the the British Isles who were resisting such advances. I think it is clear that the Pope did see this as an opportunity to expand his influence in Britain, but I have not seen sufficient evidence to indicate that it was a significant factor in William's or Harold's mind. They were both just fighting for title and claims, so I don't see sufficient evidence to demonstrate that he was a martyr.
In this case the title and "claims" part involves the rule of England over its bishops as had been done in previous pre-Schism centuries, rather than direct papal imposition, which characterized the post-Schism era in Rome. Also you would have to look at the changes between pre-and post-schism English ecclesiology and liturgy and theology to see if there were differences between beliefs or ritual in 1000 AD and in 1300 AD under Rome's appointed bishops. I am sure there were.
 

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Arachne said:
TheTrisagion said:
Arachne said:
Look, I understand the desire to give due veneration to the long-neglected early saints of the British Isles. If anything, I live slap bang in the middle of the Home Counties and I have first-hand experience with such research and initiative (like this - still very much under construction). But Harold II just doesn't make the cut. Even without factoring in the grey area of 'was he or wasn't he Orthodox', there's absolutely no evidence he was fighting a holy war. He didn't die in defence of Orthodoxy, but in defence of his throne. End of story. He may have been a good man, but martyr he wasn't, nor have there been any saintly manifestations around him. I wish the recons would let him rest in peace, rather than trying to saddle him with a mantle that doesn't fit.
Easy for you to say. You're Greek. You have a bazillion saints to choose from. Great Britain have a handful. You can't name every kid Patrick or Etheldreda.  :laugh:
Audrey is an acceptable alternative. :p
In your defense, Harold is a dorky name.
 

Opus118

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rakovsky said:
Opus118 said:
rakovsky said:
Opus118 said:
An example reference (there are more academic ones, but this seems good enough):
http://www.caitlingreen.org/2015/05/medieval-new-england-black-sea.html
An interesting article. What is "St Paul's Law", mentioned in it:
They would not have St. Paul's law, which passes current in Micklegarth (Constantinople), but sought bishops and other clergymen from Hungary.
The medieval Vikings, who had contacts with the Byzantine empire through their expansion through eastern Europe (Varangians) used the Old Norse name Miklagarðr (from mikill 'big' and garðr 'city'), later Miklagard and "Micklegarth". This name lives on in the modern Icelandic name Mikligarður and Faroese Miklagarður.Wikipedia: "Names of Istanbul"
I do not remember this precisely, but it either means the Patriarch of Constantinople or the Byzantine liturgies.
By why St Paul's law is the name?
No idea. Maybe the Anglo Saxons were Iconcoclastic and the reference is to St Paul the New. The answer is in some footnote somewhere.
 

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Amatorus said:
I'm not English...
You don't have to be.  People seem to be on a quest for Orthodox saints of the post-schism West lately, and as I said, such figures already exist.  Trying to invent them where they don't exist - or argue for their canonization based on sketchy, circumstantial evidence and wishful thinking - isn't going to pass muster with the Church.  I'm just asking for something approaching solid evidence for Harold's canonization.  Have people been asking for his intercession?  Has anyone said that he's been helping them?

Amatorus said:
Assume good faith here.
Respectfully, it's kind of hard to when: a) you won't tell us what the mysterious project that prompted this inquiry was, b) you've made a comment indicating that this might have something to do with some video game or RPG and its confessional categories (though I'm really not sure about that since I have no clue what Paradox and Crusader Kings II are; I'd imagine a software company and a game they made respectively), and c) in light of the Romulus Augustulus thing, which you now say was a joke but which seemed in earnest at the time.  No offense.

Amatorus said:
EDIT: Wait, this isn't relevant. Derp
Okay.  I'll ignore the bit about the genetic ancestry of the peoples of the British Isles, which, as you said, is not relevant here.

TheTrisagion said:
I believe those who are advocating that he be considered a Passion-Bearer hold that he, according to historical accounts, was a pious, religious man. If there is sufficient evidence of his Godliness and piety, which I'm not sure that there is, then I think it would be appropriate.
Okay.  Maybe they could make that one stick.  Again, I'm not sure that there's evidence, but then neither are you.  I take it there is no historical Orthodox cultus around him, right?  Just a bunch of moderns interested in reviving "Western Orthodoxy"?  I'm not trying to be dismissive here, but I think that there's a difference between there being a history of people asking for the intercession of a given person and having their prayers answered through his intervention, and a bunch of guys consciously looking for an Englishman (or a black man, or a Native American, or whatever) to canonize because it suits their modern agenda.  Right now, I'm kind of buying what scamandrius had to say about this, and that's why I'm a bit skeptical.  Well, that and I'd like to see the evidence to substantiate the claims people are making about Harold, the reasons he died, and his character.

TheTrisagion said:
Those who are advocating he be deemed a martyr are arguing that William the Conqueror was a pawn of the Pope who was fighting to exert papal authority of the the British Isles who were resisting such advances. I think it is clear that the Pope did see this as an opportunity to expand his influence in Britain, but I have not seen sufficient evidence to indicate that it was a significant factor in William's or Harold's mind. They were both just fighting for title and claims, so I don't see sufficient evidence to demonstrate that he was a martyr.
We agree here.

Iconodule said:
It could, but then the world would be forced to conclude that the Orthodox Church is a glorified D&D club.
^ POM!!!  ;D

TheTrisagion said:
Easy for you to say. You're Greek. You have a bazillion saints to choose from. Great Britain have a handful. You can't name every kid Patrick or Etheldreda.  :laugh:
And I know you're kidding, but that seems to me to be a lot of the motive here.  Not for Amatorus, maybe.  Who knows what his motive is.  But for a lot of the people playing this "Celtic Orthodoxy" game.  There is no Celtic Orthodox Church today and such a church is not likely to be resurrected again anytime soon.  Even if it were, it would be a reboot, not a living continuity.  A lot of this seems to be Western people saying: "I'm a Westerner.  I'm Orthodox.  I deserve more Western saints" so they go looking for people to canonize whether said figures have a history of veneration by anyone at any time or not.  The whole thing seems sketchy.

rakovsky said:
In this case the title and "claims" part involves the rule of England over its bishops as had been done in previous pre-Schism centuries, rather than direct papal imposition, which characterized the post-Schism era in Rome.
As Trisagion said, I'm not sure it can be substantiated that this was a primary motivating factor for Harold.

rakovsky said:
Also you would have to look at the changes between pre-and post-schism English ecclesiology and liturgy and theology to see if there were differences between beliefs or ritual in 1000 AD and in 1300 AD under Rome's appointed bishops. I am sure there were.
I'm not sure there were, in terms of substantive theology.  Differences in rite don't necessarily mean differences in faith, as the Oriental Orthodox world clearly demonstrates.  If you can provide evidence that Rome rapidly introduced heterodox ideas or practices in the period immediately following the conquest, and that the Catholic Church in England did not simply grow into heterodoxy along with the rest of the Catholic world during the medieval period, I'm willing to look at it, but I'm not sure that this can be done, as so many knowledgeable people here contend that there really was no Orthodoxy or Catholicism to speak of yet as we use the terms today.  William and Harold held to the same faith.
 

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You're really being a cynical stalker and I don't appreciate your intent. You should read Acts 17. You're trying to act like Inquistor of the Church yet you won't let the discourse fluorish. No one is strictly saying Harold II is a saint equal to St. Augustine of Canterbury or something, the claim is merely for passion-bearer or martyr.

I've been researching what I can in my spare time but I thought somebody had expertise in this historical period.
 

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Also it's historical fact that William received the blessing of the Pope to invade Britain. Pope Alexander II basically condoned the Duke of Normandy to raid and kill other Christians, including the King of England himself. How could that not sink the Bishop of Rome even farther into ecclesiastical hot water even after the Schism 12 years prior?
 

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Amatorus said:
You're really being a cynical stalker
Cynical, maybe.  More like skeptical though.  Stalker, no.  Don't flatter yourself.  I click on threads that seem like they might be interesting to me.  I could care less if you started them or not.  Outside of the Romulus Augustulus thread and this one, I don't know what other threads you've started, and I could care less.

Amatorus said:
and I don't appreciate your intent.
You don't know what my intent is.  If you think it's got anything to do with you personally, you're way of base.  The topic caught my attention, and I'm free to comment on it as I like, whether that meets with your approval or not.  Take your persecution complex elsewhere if you can't handle people disagreeing with you or commenting on things you write on a public forum.

Amatorus said:
You should read Acts 17.
So should you.  It has nothing to do with my commentary in this thread.

Amatorus said:
You're trying to act like Inquistor of the Church
You're succeeding in acting like a butthurt baby.

Amatorus said:
yet you won't let the discourse fluorish.
The discussion is flourishing.  Just because people aren't reaching the conclusions you'd like them to reach, it doesn't mean the discussion isn't flourishing.  I've learned quite a bit here - most especially from Opus, vamrat and other educated posters - and I could care less if anything anyone has posted here meets with your approval or not.

Amatorus said:
No one is strictly saying Harold II is a saint equal to St. Augustine of Canterbury or something
I never contended that anyone did.

Amatorus said:
the claim is merely for passion-bearer or martyr.
And as I (and many others) have said, I'm not sure there's evidence for either.

Amatorus said:
I've been researching what I can in my spare time but I thought somebody had expertise in this historical period.
Some valuable insight into the period has been offered by Opus and others.  What's your beef?  That I mentioned you referenced a video game and won't reveal you're deep, mystical (RPG) purpose?  Calm down and let the discussion take its course.

Amatorus said:
Also it's historical fact that William received the blessing of the Pope to invade Britain. Pope Alexander II basically condoned the Duke of Normandy to raid and kill other Christians, including the King of England himself. How could that not sink the Bishop of Rome even farther into ecclesiastical hot water even after the Schism 12 years prior?
And none of that makes Harold a shoo-in for sainthood.  All the skeptics in this thread are asking for is the same thing you're asking for: a little solid proof.
 

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The point it, Amatorus, in order for someone to be considered a passion-bearer or a martyr, there needs to be compelling evidence that the person meets the definition. He may very well, but there are also millions of Christians over the years who have met that definition, but are known only to God, not to us. Unless compelling evidence can be shown that Harold II is deserving of this title, it is better to just respect him for what he was and not try to canonize him. Obviously William in his political maneuvering used the Pope in his machinations, but as I said before, he cannot be a martyr unless it is shown that that is the actual cause of the war, not just some sideshow politicking that went on. As for being a Passion-Bearer, we simply don't have enough info on the man to make that determination. The greater concern is why is there there move to do so? It is just to stick a finger in the eye of Catholicism? Because from what I have read of the movement so far (which is admittedly not extensive), it seems that that is a reoccurring theme.
 

Mor Ephrem

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Amatorus said:
Also it's historical fact that William received the blessing of the Pope to invade Britain. Pope Alexander II basically condoned the Duke of Normandy to raid and kill other Christians, including the King of England himself. How could that not sink the Bishop of Rome even farther into ecclesiastical hot water even after the Schism 12 years prior?
I have an icon ("Synaxis of Dubious Passion-Bearers"), and Harold II is depicted between Socrates and John F. Kennedy. 

Holy God-pleasing Dubious Passion-Bearers, save us.
 

AntoniousNikolas

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Mor Ephrem said:
Amatorus said:
Also it's historical fact that William received the blessing of the Pope to invade Britain. Pope Alexander II basically condoned the Duke of Normandy to raid and kill other Christians, including the King of England himself. How could that not sink the Bishop of Rome even farther into ecclesiastical hot water even after the Schism 12 years prior?
I have an icon ("Synaxis of Dubious Passion-Bearers"), and Harold II is depicted between Socrates and John F. Kennedy. 

Holy God-pleasing Dubious Passion-Bearers, save us.
I almost choked on what was supposed to be a soothing cup of green tea laughing after reading this.  Thanks a lot, Mor!
 

TheTrisagion

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Mor Ephrem said:
Amatorus said:
Also it's historical fact that William received the blessing of the Pope to invade Britain. Pope Alexander II basically condoned the Duke of Normandy to raid and kill other Christians, including the King of England himself. How could that not sink the Bishop of Rome even farther into ecclesiastical hot water even after the Schism 12 years prior?
I have an icon ("Synaxis of Dubious Passion-Bearers"), and Harold II is depicted between Socrates and John F. Kennedy. 

Holy God-pleasing Dubious Passion-Bearers, save us.
Are they dancing? Because that would just be the cherry on top of this passion-bearing ice cream sundae.
 

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TheTrisagion said:
Mor Ephrem said:
Amatorus said:
Also it's historical fact that William received the blessing of the Pope to invade Britain. Pope Alexander II basically condoned the Duke of Normandy to raid and kill other Christians, including the King of England himself. How could that not sink the Bishop of Rome even farther into ecclesiastical hot water even after the Schism 12 years prior?
I have an icon ("Synaxis of Dubious Passion-Bearers"), and Harold II is depicted between Socrates and John F. Kennedy. 

Holy God-pleasing Dubious Passion-Bearers, save us.
Are they dancing? Because that would just be the cherry on top of this passion-bearing ice cream sundae.

only the nuts dance
 

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Iconodule said:
Not sure if anyone has mentioned it yet, but William's invasion came right after Harold's defeat of Harald Hardrada, who had been in the Varangian guard before he decided to return and claim the throne of Norway. Not directly relevant to the topic at hand, but interesting.
You have no idea how badly I want to threadjack and turn this into a Varangian discussion right now.  I did a research paper on them in college using King Harald's Saga as one of the sources.  I think I'll just listen to Amon Amarth - The Varyags of Miklagard instead.
 

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vamrat said:
Iconodule said:
Not sure if anyone has mentioned it yet, but William's invasion came right after Harold's defeat of Harald Hardrada, who had been in the Varangian guard before he decided to return and claim the throne of Norway. Not directly relevant to the topic at hand, but interesting.
You have no idea how badly I want to threadjack and turn this into a Varangian discussion right now.  I did a research paper on them in college using King Harald's Saga as one of the sources.  I think I'll just listen to Amon Amarth - The Varyags of Miklagard instead.

threadjack....please!
 

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vamrat said:
Iconodule said:
Not sure if anyone has mentioned it yet, but William's invasion came right after Harold's defeat of Harald Hardrada, who had been in the Varangian guard before he decided to return and claim the throne of Norway. Not directly relevant to the topic at hand, but interesting.
You have no idea how badly I want to threadjack and turn this into a Varangian discussion right now.  I did a research paper on them in college using King Harald's Saga as one of the sources.  I think I'll just listen to Amon Amarth - The Varyags of Miklagard instead.
Holy Varangian Martyrs, intercede for us!
 

Iconodule

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vamrat said:
Iconodule said:
Not sure if anyone has mentioned it yet, but William's invasion came right after Harold's defeat of Harald Hardrada, who had been in the Varangian guard before he decided to return and claim the throne of Norway. Not directly relevant to the topic at hand, but interesting.
You have no idea how badly I want to threadjack and turn this into a Varangian discussion right now.  I did a research paper on them in college using King Harald's Saga as one of the sources.  I think I'll just listen to Amon Amarth - The Varyags of Miklagard instead.
There's also Turisas:



I sang "To Holmgard and Beyond" at a karaoke bar.
 

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Antonious Nikolas said:
Mor Ephrem said:
Amatorus said:
Also it's historical fact that William received the blessing of the Pope to invade Britain. Pope Alexander II basically condoned the Duke of Normandy to raid and kill other Christians, including the King of England himself. How could that not sink the Bishop of Rome even farther into ecclesiastical hot water even after the Schism 12 years prior?
I have an icon ("Synaxis of Dubious Passion-Bearers"), and Harold II is depicted between Socrates and John F. Kennedy. 

Holy God-pleasing Dubious Passion-Bearers, save us.
I almost choked on what was supposed to be a soothing cup of green tea laughing after reading this.  Thanks a lot, Mor!
:-*
 

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Antonious Nikolas said:
Mor Ephrem said:
Amatorus said:
Also it's historical fact that William received the blessing of the Pope to invade Britain. Pope Alexander II basically condoned the Duke of Normandy to raid and kill other Christians, including the King of England himself. How could that not sink the Bishop of Rome even farther into ecclesiastical hot water even after the Schism 12 years prior?
I have an icon ("Synaxis of Dubious Passion-Bearers"), and Harold II is depicted between Socrates and John F. Kennedy. 

Holy God-pleasing Dubious Passion-Bearers, save us.
I almost choked on what was supposed to be a soothing cup of green tea laughing after reading this.  Thanks a lot, Mor!
Are you a teenager or an adult in his 40's?
 

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DeniseDenise said:
vamrat said:
Iconodule said:
Not sure if anyone has mentioned it yet, but William's invasion came right after Harold's defeat of Harald Hardrada, who had been in the Varangian guard before he decided to return and claim the throne of Norway. Not directly relevant to the topic at hand, but interesting.
You have no idea how badly I want to threadjack and turn this into a Varangian discussion right now.  I did a research paper on them in college using King Harald's Saga as one of the sources.  I think I'll just listen to Amon Amarth - The Varyags of Miklagard instead.

threadjack....please!
Please twice.  Please, please.

Iconodule said:
I sang "To Holmgard and Beyond" at a karaoke bar.
What was the Heineken-bottles-to-the-head ratio like compared to one of your usual performances?

WPM said:
Are you a teenager or an adult in his 40's?
I know what you're trying to figure out.  The answer is no.  The line was too long.
 

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Amatorus said:
In your defense, Harold is a dorky name.

Who are you calling dorky?

Harold = Har - old = Harrier - Leader = Ravaging Chief = Kara - vlad (in Slavic)



(Using humor here)
 

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rakovsky said:
Amatorus said:
In your defense, Harold is a dorky name.

Who are you calling dorky?

Harold = Har - old = Harrier - Leader = Ravaging Chief = Kara - vlad (in Slavic)



(Using humor here)
The older Germanic forms Hereweald and Harald actually sound cool, "Harold" just screams "middle aged balding sitcom husband" to me. Didn't know about the Slavic equivalent?
 

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As I understand it, Edward the Confessor was the last Orthodox saint in England. And by being considered a saint, it suggests that he died in communion with the Church, right? Yet Edward died after the Schism of 1054. Thus, England had not yet participated in Schism. So at what point did the Schism and its effects hit England? It would seem shortly thereafter with the direct imposition of Roman church rule, which was imposed by the Normans. Thus by defending from the Normans, Harold II was defending against the forces of Schism.
 

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Amatorus said:
The older Germanic forms Hereweald and Harald actually sound cool, "Harold" just screams "middle aged balding sitcom husband" to me. Didn't know about the Slavic equivalent?
Look at it this way. When I was in summer camp I made a lot of fun of a student who was randomly given the rare "student name" Mstislav by the camp. Turns out years later that Mstislav is my personal saint.
 

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Amatorus said:
rakovsky said:
Kara - vlad (in Slavic)
Didn't know about the Slavic equivalent?
It's equivalent only in etymology, not in real names, I think. I don't know any slavic male names starting with Kar-, except for "Karl", which means "brave" in Germanic (ie. "Karl's" roots are more Germanic than slavic).
 

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Amatorus said:
And most modern Britons are actually genetically similar to the natives who lived thousands of years before; the Romans, Saxons, Danes, Normans, and others had relatively little genetic impact on the common people.
It looks like about half of the English (as opposed to Welsh and Scots) are Germanic, so the Germanic peoples in bold above must have indeed made a huge impact on the English (Normans are perhaps mixed French-Norse). It's surprising to me how much there is a real difference from the Welsh genetically. England really is far more "Anglo" than Wales as a result of the Germanic conquests.

 

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rakovsky said:
Amatorus said:
And most modern Britons are actually genetically similar to the natives who lived thousands of years before; the Romans, Saxons, Danes, Normans, and others had relatively little genetic impact on the common people.
It looks like about half of the English (as opposed to Welsh and Scots) are Germanic, so the Germanic peoples in bold above must have indeed made a huge impact on the English (Normans are perhaps mixed French-Norse). It's surprising to me how much there is a real difference from the Welsh genetically. England really is far more "Anglo" than Wales as a result of the Germanic conquests.

Do you know what haplogroup that represents? I'm really surprised to see the distribution in Greece and Northwest Anatolia, I don't know where that came from. The Frankokratia maybe but I doubt it. There are theories the Ancient Greeks were Germanic but I'm not sure, if this was the case we should see some amount in the Levant, from the Romans, Crusades, Anglo-French colonization and all that. Portugal and Galicia makes sense because the Suebi.
 

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rakovsky said:
As I understand it, Edward the Confessor was the last Orthodox saint in England. And by being considered a saint, it suggests that he died in communion with the Church, right? Yet Edward died after the Schism of 1054. Thus, England had not yet participated in Schism. So at what point did the Schism and its effects hit England? It would seem shortly thereafter with the direct imposition of Roman church rule, which was imposed by the Normans. Thus by defending from the Normans, Harold II was defending against the forces of Schism.
This is the case I agree with. I just think people here are concerned with a lack of evidence, and I guess I agree there. Hopefully there's some obscure document or codex somewhere to clear it up.

rakovsky said:
Amatorus said:
The older Germanic forms Hereweald and Harald actually sound cool, "Harold" just screams "middle aged balding sitcom husband" to me. Didn't know about the Slavic equivalent?
Look at it this way. When I was in summer camp I made a lot of fun of a student who was randomly given the rare "student name" Mstislav by the camp. Turns out years later that Mstislav is my personal saint.
Mstislav sounds badass.
 

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Also rakovsky, I think you should be aware that your patron saint's Wiki article is quite lacking and does not even mention his canonisation:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mstislav_I_of_Kiev
 
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