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Patriarch Bartholomew's New Book

SolEX01

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I happened to thumb through His All Holiness' new book at the local bookstore and noticed that his writing style was similar to Bishop Kallistos Ware.  His All Holiness didn't write a Catechism on the Orthodox faith; I felt that He tried to express Orthodoxy to the post-modern world by perhaps taking a post-modern approach.  If anyone else read his book, did anyone else reach the same conclusions?
 

PeterTheAleut

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What's the name of His All Holiness's new book?
 

Andrea

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PeterTheAleut said:
What's the name of His All Holiness's new book?
It's called Encountering the Mystery: Understanding Orthodox Christianity Today.

I just picked it up from the library and am eagerly looking forward to reading it!

:)Andrea
 
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A note of caution re this book. See Fr Joseph Honeycutt's most sober review on Orthodixie. Type Encountering the mystery on the blog search for a March 19th review.  http://southern-orthodoxy.blogspot.com/
 

A Sombra

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A QUOTE: "The natural environment -- the forest, the water, the land -- belongs not only to the present generation but also to future generations. We must frankly admit that humankind is entitled to something better than what we see around us. We and, much more, our children and future generations are entitled to a better and brighter world, a world free from degradation, violence, and bloodshed, a world of generosity and love. It is selfless and sacrificial love for our children that will show us the path that we must follow into the future"
(p.119). From Patriarch Bartholomew's new book!

Two reactions:
1. A BiG Yawn!

2. Do the word chiliasm mean anything to ya?
 

Eleos

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A Sombra said:
2. Do the word chiliasm mean anything to ya?
Are you suggesting that His All Holiness Patriarch Bartholemew is a heretic?
 

Riddikulus

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A Sombra said:
A QUOTE: "The natural environment -- the forest, the water, the land -- belongs not only to the present generation but also to future generations. We must frankly admit that humankind is entitled to something better than what we see around us. We and, much more, our children and future generations are entitled to a better and brighter world, a world free from degradation, violence, and bloodshed, a world of generosity and love. It is selfless and sacrificial love for our children that will show us the path that we must follow into the future"
(p.119). From Patriarch Bartholomew's new book!

Two reactions:
1. A BiG Yawn!
Interesting that concern for the environment; given over to the stewardship of man by God, would evoke a yawn.

2. Do the word chiliasm mean anything to ya?
Yes... your point?
 

A Sombra

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QUOTE: Are you suggesting that His All Holiness Patriarch Bartholemew is a heretic?

Don't get mad at me-the priest who writes the Father Joseph Honeycutt's "Orthodixie" blog, Father Joseph Honeycutt, suggested that parts of this book written by Patriarch Bartholomew were reminiscent of chiliasm-"heaven on earth," which, yes, is a heresy. He meant this part-"our children and future generations are entitled to a better and brighter world, a world free from degradation, violence, and bloodshed, a world of generosity and love. It is selfless and sacrificial love for our children that will show us the path that we must follow into the future."

And, I agree-it definintely does have that chiliastic component, the world of "generosity and love." I can see the hearts and flowers now! Now, is that OK with you, or, do you want to burn me at the stake or what? What shuld happen, in your world, to people who may "Suggest" that Patriarch Bartholomew is a heretic? And, in case you are not aware, if I was suggesting that, it certainly would not be the first time it has been suggested-and by those infinitely more wise and holy than either of us will ever come near to being!
 

A Sombra

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  The BIG YAWN on my part is for two reasons:

  For those with a plethora of environmental concerns and interests, I am absolutely sure that there are infinitely better and more interesting books available that address environmental concerns and interest. This is no great deduction on my part, as I am sure that there are those writers who are more knowledgable on environmental concerns and interests that is Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople.

  Ditto for those who want to read about Orthodoxy. As Father Joseph Honeycutt notes: "The world is in a mess and is headed for an imminent, ecumenical, even interreligious, encounter. So seems the belief of His All Holiness Ecumenical Patriarch BARTHOLOMEW according to his new book, Encountering the Mystery – Understanding Orthodox Christianity Today. " Not my cup of tea, I'll tell you that. Fr. Joseph also writes: "the book is about encountering. Rarely does an encounter exist without struggle, a struggle toward understanding. Upon reading this book, my chief struggle is in trying to understand its purpose."
Yep-REALLY not my cup of tea. (Fr. Joseph's review of the book is at http://southern-orthodoxy.blogspot.com/search?q=patriarch+bartholomew%27s+book)

  So, I am not all that inclined to read about the environment. I am inclined to read about Orthodoxy, but more on the historical aspects, Saints Lives, lives of podvizhniks, things like that-things that are about SOMETHING, not merely the musings of the Patriarch.

  Fr. Joseph also informs us that "Although the mainstream press – even the dust jacket of this book – claims the Ecumenical Patriarch is the “spiritual leader for the world’s over 200 million Orthodox Christians,” many Orthodox Christians view this as no more than a convenient label employed by the media, and encouraged by the Ecumenical throne, to add gravitas to his position among Church and world leaders from within a once-Christian-now-Muslim land."
  As I most certainly DO NOT agree that Patriarch Bartholomew is the leader of the world's "200 million Orthodox Christians," that bogus come on the the dust jacket would be enough to turn me away from the book. Attempting to stay within the Forum's guidelines, I can happily say this: His All Holiness sure ain't my leader! I was going to say "sho ain't," but did not want to take the chance for being once again criticized for using "Urban" language! If I did, of course, it would have meant some poor soul had to once again consult the UrbanDictionary.com to see what it was I was saying! An I sho dont want dat!

 

Eleos

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A Sombra said:
QUOTE: Are you suggesting that His All Holiness Patriarch Bartholemew is a heretic?

Don't get mad at me-the priest who writes the Father Joseph Honeycutt's "Orthodixie" blog, Father Joseph Honeycutt, suggested that parts of this book written by Patriarch Bartholomew were reminiscent of chiliasm-"heaven on earth," which, yes, is a heresy. He meant this part-"our children and future generations are entitled to a better and brighter world, a world free from degradation, violence, and bloodshed, a world of generosity and love. It is selfless and sacrificial love for our children that will show us the path that we must follow into the future."

And, I agree-it definintely does have that chiliastic component, the world of "generosity and love." I can see the hearts and flowers now! Now, is that OK with you, or, do you want to burn me at the stake or what? What shuld happen, in your world, to people who may "Suggest" that Patriarch Bartholomew is a heretic? And, in case you are not aware, if I was suggesting that, it certainly would not be the first time it has been suggested-and by those infinitely more wise and holy than either of us will ever come near to being!
You're being presumptuous on many levels.  Mad? Burn me at the stake?  I simply asked you a question.  I'm interested in his book and if it teaches heresy, I'd like to hear more about it.  After reading your explanation, and reading about chiliasm, I must say that I don't see the relationship between the quote from His All Holiness and chiliasm.  On the contrary I find responsibility for our world, generosity, love, hope, and selfless sacrifice to be very orthodox Christian.  I haven't read the book yet, but I'm looking forward to an Orthodox perspective coming from a hierarch on our modern world.
 

PeterTheAleut

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A Sombra said:
  So, I am not all that inclined to read about the environment. I am inclined to read about Orthodoxy, but more on the historical aspects, Saints Lives, lives of podvizhniks, things like that-things that are about SOMETHING, not merely the musings of the Patriarch.
For all the eternal wealth that can be gleaned from reading such things as the lives of the saints and the writings of the ascetic Fathers, can Orthodoxy really be restricted to this?  Sure, our Faith is not of this world, but we still live in the world, which makes our stewardship of this world's resources a very important part of our more general stewardship before God.  Christ didn't come to the world merely to pull us out of the world; rather, He became man and came into the world and in order to sanctify the entire cosmos.  If His All-Holiness was to identify environmentalism as the definition of the Christian faith, I might think his words chiliastic for their intent to make eternal the kingdoms of this world, but I don't really see that as being necessarily true of at least what little I've read of his book.
 

EofK

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You know, I wouldn't mind hearing the Patriarch's views on the environment.  There are enough talking heads in the media flogging their opinions on the subject, so it would be a nice change to hear an Orthodox take on it. 
 
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